Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Swap Shop and Wish Lists => For Sale & Trade => Topic started by: SkyPilot on December 27, 2019, 05:37:58 PM
-
Hello: I have an original Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound project complete with four D120F speakers and original tie dye front speaker cover. Photo attached showing keyboardist Keith and behind him to his right are a stack of several of these square shaped cabinets with tie dye front speaker covers. It is in very good condition, excellent, near furniture grade craftsmanship using fine wood and VERY heavy. In storage in Marin County for 35+ years so it's time for me to find a good home for it with someone who plays and also appreciates this piece of vintage Grateful Dead history. All inquiries welcome and thank you for your interest! Rick
>
PS - I will be posting the speaker cabinet dimensions tomorrow.
-
Hello Rick ,
Welcome to our little corner of the web , our Alembic Club .
Thanks for posting this piece of history . It would be very handy to know the exact dimensions measurement , as well as front and back photos of the cabinet with and without the Tie-Die cover . Close ups of the speaker cones would also be helpful .
Thanks
Wolf ; AKA " Sonicus " at the Alembic Club .
-
Hi, Rick. Do you know the condition of the speakers? If they’ve been in storage for 35+ years, it’s very possible they may need some work. That would significantly impact on value. Have you tried to fire it up yet? And is “VERY heavy” north of 100 lbs? A piece of the wall would be cool, indeed. I experienced it a bunch of times in ‘74. To quote Richard Nixon, (something that I have rarely done), “What a great wall!”
Bill, tgo
-
Thanx for the response Bill. The speakers appear to be good, cone and surrounds look clean and undamaged. However they should be removed and tested operationally before using. I would estimate the weight at 200 pounds. If I was to use it I'd install wheels so it could be rolled around rather than carried.
-
Just to pick the fly poop out of the pepper: Here is a diagram of the Wall of Sound:
http://www.dozin.com/wallofsound/ (http://www.dozin.com/wallofsound/)
Note that there are 1X15" and 2X12" cabs, plus the massive piano & vocal clusters; no 4X anything. The cabs in your pic do, in fact, look to be Alembic, and were obviously used by the Dead - but they weren't in the Wall.
Which is not to say that, had I the price (and the no-doubt-larger shipping price to Illinois), I wouldn't take at least one off your hands; very cool!
Peter (who wishes you luck with the sale and envies the buyer(s))
-
Just to pick the fly poop out of the pepper: Here is a diagram of the Wall of Sound:
http://www.dozin.com/wallofsound/ (http://www.dozin.com/wallofsound/)
Note that there are 1X15" and 2X12" cabs, plus the massive piano & vocal clusters; no 4X anything. The cabs in your pic do, in fact, look to be Alembic, and were obviously used by the Dead - but they weren't in the Wall.
Which is not to say that, had I the price (and the no-doubt-larger shipping price to Illinois), I wouldn't take at least one off your hands; very cool! Peter (who wishes you luck with the sale and envies the buyer(s))
Just to clarify that "fly poop out of the pepper": That diagram of the Wall of Sound is qualified as "Hollywood Bowl 1974"
While I am not an expert on the Wall of Sound I would never suggest that the Wall of Sound project development was ever "static", never changing and uniformly consistent on every occasion. Since the diagram is specifically dated, it can only be certain that the diagram of the assembly of the wall shows it as it existed on that one occasion.
As a matter of fact if you read the accompanying text below it states: "The Grateful Deads sound system has evolved over the last eight years as a technical and group enterprise, a sort of logical accumulation of speakers and people. Changes have been made continuously in all directions which aid in improving the quality of the sound ... "
... and away goes " fly poop" down the drain.
-
I think Peter may be on to something here.
The photo with the square tie-dye cabs behind Keith is not the Wall of Sound. Also, if you look at the 2 x 12s next to Jerry to get perspective, it appears the tie-dye cabs by Keith are too small to hold four 12s. I would guess they are more likely four 10s. And while the Dead’s sound system did assuredly evolve over the years, the Wall itself was a creature of 1974.
Most of it was unofficially unveiled at the three night stand at Winterland in February of that year. The official debut of the full Wall was in March of 1974 at the Cow Palace in South San Francisco. The last Wall of Sound show was on October 20, 1974, the conclusion of the five night stand at Winterland that was filmed for the Grateful Dead Movie, after which they took their two year hiatus. (I was there for all of the above).
During the course of 1974, the Dead actually toured with two Walls. They would leapfrog each other from gig to gig so that while the band was playing a venue, the second Wall was already being shipped and set up at the next venue. Under such circumstances, it doesn’t seem likely that they were making changes in the size and shape of the cabs that made up the two Walls.
Bill, tgo
-
These photos suggest they may be from their 1973 sound system (and the photo from the the first post in this thread is labeled 1973), cool none-the-less.
-
I think Peter may be on to something here. The photo with the square tie-dye cabs behind Keith is not the Wall of Sound. Also, if you look at the 2 x 12s next to Jerry to get perspective, it appears the tie-dye cabs by Keith are too small to hold four 12s. I would guess they are more likely four 10s. And while the Dead’s sound system did assuredly evolve over the years, the Wall itself was a creature of 1974. Most of it was unofficially unveiled at the three night stand at Winterland in February of that year. The official debut of the full Wall was in March of 1974 at the Cow Palace in South San Francisco. (I was there for all of the above). During the course of 1974, the Dead actually toured with two Walls. They would leapfrog each other from gig to gig so that while the band was playing a venue, the second Wall was already being shipped and set up at the next venue. Under such circumstances, it doesn’t seem likely that they were making changes in the size and shape of the cabs that made up the two Walls. Bill, tgo
That's right, the photo with the square tie-dye cabs behind Keith is not part of the 1974 Hollywood Bowl version of the Wall of Sound system as stipulated on the diagram.[/b] As I said Bill, I would never claim to be an expert historian on the Wall of Sound development project however the Dead's statement makes it clear that: "The Grateful Deads sound system has evolved over the last eight years as a technical and group enterprise, a sort of logical accumulation of speakers and people. Changes have been made continuously in all directions which aid in improving the quality of the sound ... "
The photo is dated 1973 so perhaps by 1974 the continuous changes they refer to phased out various components of the previous incarnations of their PRE-Wall sound system? In fact, as we dive deeper down the rabbit hole, we are trying to make the distinction now as to what was part of The Grateful Dead's PRE-"1974 sound system and what was part of The Grateful Dead's subsequent 1974 Wall of Sound system. In either event I do not believe that at ANY time the Dead's sound systems were ever completely "static", never changing and uniformly consistent on every occasion. I've met Dan Healy and will remember to ask him about this whenever I see him again.
FROM WIKIPEDIA: 'Dan Healy is an audio engineer who often worked with the American rock band the Grateful Dead. He succeeded Alembic and Owsley "Bear" Stanley as the group's chief sound man after the Wall Of Sound in 1974 and subsequent band hiatus through 1975.'
As to: "the tie-dye cabs by Keith are too small to hold four 12s", they do not look too small to hold four 12s to me? I suppose we could speculate endlessly without achieving a degree of certainty that is presently unavailable. I'm sure if needed Alembic could have made such a cabinet with 4 10"inch speakers. The speakers in my Alembic cabinet are 12"inch, not 10"inch.
NOTE: for further information I will be posting the outside dimensions of the cabinet and photos of the speaker arrangement asap. I don't have a cell phone or camera so photos may take a few days until I have a friend take the photos.
-
Bill makes a good point about the speaker sizes in the cabinets pictured behind Keith. It doesn't look like four of the 12s would fit in a cab that size. They may be tens but without seeing the drivers anything is a mere guess.
My take on the Wall of Sound is that the 74 system was merely the culmination of the project. For the Boston Music Hall shows in 73 the band had to set the entire system up behind the band for the first time due to the volume of equipment and space limitations in a small theater. Prior to that "forced experiment" they weren't convinced of the ability to squash feedback from the vocal mics if the entire array was behind the band (Bear's vision). But much of the equipment and technology that went into the final wall was developed and used during 73 in particular and had its genesis in the "Alembic PA" of 72.
I also do not think there were ever two "Walls of Sound" on the road. There were definitely two sets of scaffolding, one which was being erected ahead of the next date on the tour. The expense for the Wall was staggering enough without adding the expense to purchase, transport and set up a second 75 tons of equipment. They would have also needed two complete road crews to set up a second Wall ahead of time.
-
Cool pics, Rob. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Jerry play the Strat with the numbers inlaid on the neck before. Interesting bridge on that one, more like a Les Paul! And I don’t believe I’ve seen Bobby playing an SG before, either.
Stephen is correct about the two sets of scaffolding - that’s what I meant to say but was less than clear. Since changing the size and shape of the cabs would necessitate a similar change in the scaffolding, it just doesn't make sense that they would be doing so in 1974. And my understanding is that they did indeed have two crews, so one could travel ahead and set up the frame at the next venue. It was a major part of the expenses that forced the band to take the hiatus, trim the fat, so to speak, and retire the Wall.
Bill, tgo
-
No question about the fluidity of the system, Rick; in his masterful book Grateful Dead Gear: The Band's Instruments, Sound Systems, and Recording Sessions, 1965-1995*, Blair Jackson speculates that the system may well have changed a little every night for 30 years - which seems about right.
I do not mean to imply that the cabs in question were not used by the Dead (and quite possibly very soon before and/or after 1974's grand experiment); just that they are not likely to be from The Wall Of Sound as such. While I, unlike Bill, was not fortunate enough to see (and hear, and feel) the Wall in action, I am 1) a Deadhead, 2) a former professional soundman, 3) a committed gear geek, and 4) the sort of...well, all of the above....who keeps Jackson's book in the bathroom and starts it over every time I finish it - and in the pursuit of my obsessions I have never seen any reference or photographic evidence of the Wall, in any of its incarnations, using 4X12s.
Which, to me at least, does not make your cabs any less desirable (nor, alas, more obtainable........)
*I am not at home to look, and so may be slightly off with the subtitle. But I do recommend it to any and all who have any interest in the subjects of the Grateful Dead, Alembic, and the development of modern sound reinforcement (the 3 of these being thoroughly intertwined).
Peter (who thinks his current reading of GFG is his 9th or 10th time through it)
-
And let us not forget that the Wall of Sound would not have been possible without Ron Wickersham’s idea of using paired out-of-phase vocal mics that served to cancel the feedback one would normally expect with a bunch of speakers facing directly into the mic.
Bill, tgo
-
Actually, I think a ‘72-‘73 cab might be more desirable, those were stellar years and think of the music that came through them and the vibe they convey! :)
-
(rv_bass) No question about the fluidity of the system, Rick; in his masterful book Grateful Dead Gear: The Band's Instruments, Sound Systems, and Recording Sessions, 1965-1995*, Blair Jackson speculates that the system may well have changed a little every night for 30 years - which seems about right."
1) I agree and figure they meant exactly what they said referring to the Wall: "The Grateful Deads sound system has evolved over the last eight years."
(rv_bass) I do not mean to imply that the cabs in question were not used by the Dead (and quite possibly very soon before and/or after 1974's grand experiment); just that they are not likely to be from The Wall Of Sound as such.
2) I think your statement "The Wall Of Sound as such" demonstrates that there may be an orthodoxy regarding exactly what equipment/and when the Dead's sound system became "THE WALL" thus defining it by a 1974 date certain final version.
3) For clarification please note the 1st sentence of my post. I said: speaker cabinet from the "Grateful Dead's Wall of Sound PROJECT", I DID NOT say it was from "The Wall Of Sound as such."
4) Personally I have always considered the "The Wall Of Sound" as an evolving project along a continuum with a continuous series of elements up to and including 1974 as reflected in their own statement. My view may disagree with more linear thinking that seeks to define "The Wall Of Sound as such" to a date certain final version that they toured with or other criteria???
(rv_bass) I have never seen any reference or photographic evidence of the Wall, in any of its incarnations, using 4X12s.
5) If the definition of the Wall is confined to 1974 the photo is dated 1973 so perhaps by 1974 the continuous changes they refer to phased out various components of the previous incarnations of their PRE-1974 Wall sound system? Again, this assumes that everything prior to some unknown date certain is not part of "The Wall Of Sound as such. Thus I refer to this cabinet as part of the "The Wall Of Sound" PROJECT. [/u]
-
To me, the Wall of Sound was the giant wall with speakers stacked up to 32’ high (I’ve been told the 32’ stack was for Phil’s E string which put out a 32’ foot wave, crest to crest, and Phil wanted to put out the whole wave, not just a piece of it. I don’t know if that’s true, but it sure is a great story). The Wall served as both FOH and stage monitors with all speakers behind the band, and employed the double mics. The band continually experimented with sound both pre and post Wall, but the systems included floor monitors or, later, IEMs, and no double mics. But when the great majority of Deadheads refer to the “Wall of Sound”, they are specifically referring to the 1974 system.
Bill, tgo (who, as Peter reminded me, certainly “felt” the Wall as well as heard it).
-
Developmentally, over a longer skene of time, I agree with StephenR's statement, "my take on the Wall of Sound is that the 1974 system was merely the culmination of the project" which aligns with their own statement about the wall. "The Grateful Deads sound system has evolved over the last eight years as a technical and group enterprise, a sort of logical accumulation of speakers and people. Changes have been made continuously in all directions which aid in improving the quality of the sound ... "
For clarification, the 1st sentence of my posting said this is: an original Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound project and that is precisely what it is. I DID NOT say it was from a 1974 Wall Of Sound system as such.
The great majority of Deadheads may refer to the “Wall of Sound” as the 1974 system as a matter of legend or folklore rather than fact since the great majority of Deadheads I know, and have met, weren't there and in many cases even born in 1974.
Although I'm not a Deadhead I attended the “Wall of Sound” show at the Cow Palace in South San Francisco in 1974. It was sight to behold!
... that's my $.02 cents
-
Just to add a little more, my dad maintains that the Wall of Sound was really never built.
-
Just to add a little more, my dad maintains that the Wall of Sound was really never built.
Hi Mica, thanx for the information about this forum, alot'a great folks, information, and fond reminisces of back in the day. Also Wolf called me and gave me alot'a great information too! Thanx again, Rick
-
All great stuff, all great music, all great innovations...nothing lasts, further... :)
-
Here is a picture I found that was taken at Roosevelt Stadium on 8/1/73. It shows the Band playing through one of the 73 incarnations of the Wall of Sound when they opened for the Dead on Jerry's birthday. No vocal clusters or piano cluster yet but you can already see the direction the configuration of the equipment was headed. There was no auxiliary PA support, while this isn't the same configuration as the 74 Wall, it is hard to argue that this can't be called the Wall of Sound, it is just an earlier version that at the time had no "name" associated with it. Excellent show by the way...
-
I've been reading along all day, enjoying. There must be pieces of that thing scattered around all over California.
-
I’m a piece of that crowd that is scattered in California! This show, Jerry’s 31st birthday, was the last one where he played Alligator. Twelve days after attending this show I moved out west. I don’t see any 4x12s in the pics. It just occurred to me that a difference in the Dead’s equipment is that the pre-Wall stuff had lots of tie-dye, but the Wall was open speakers, no tie-dye.
Bill, tgo
-
I’m a piece of that crowd that is now in California! This show, Jerry’s 31st birthday, was the last one where he played Alligator. Twelve days after attending this show I moved out west. I don’t see any 4x12s in the pics. Bill, tgo
Maybe they left all the 4x12s at the 6/10/73 Kennedy Stadium show, two photos show a stack of them to the right as you face the stage.
-
Just to add a little more, my dad maintains that the Wall of Sound was really never built.
There is something about that statement that truly satisfies...
-
That’s a good looking wall, with a tectonic uplift occurring a few months later, followed by strategic erosion, stabilization, and periodic adjustments due to stochastic fluvial meanderings...gonna listen time the river sing sweet songs to rock my soul... :)
-
If only the Dead had had Mexico pay for the Wall, they wouldn’t have had to retire it!
hehehehe
Bill, tgo
-
Best 'for sale' thread ever... and we ain't even seen the actual article yet.
FWIW, I'm listening to the Seattle, '74 show while taking down Christmas decorations this afternoon.
I was just thinking... if we're in the Wickersham's virtual living room having this discussion, are they in the virtual kitchen across the hall wondering, just who the ham-sandwich are these people?! ;D
-
Here is a picture I found that was taken at Roosevelt Stadium on 8/1/73. It shows the Band playing through one of the 73 incarnations of the Wall of Sound when they opened for the Dead on Jerry's birthday. No vocal clusters or piano cluster yet but you can already see the direction the configuration of the equipment was headed. There was no auxiliary PA support, while this isn't the same configuration as the 74 Wall, it is hard to argue that this can't be called the Wall of Sound, it is just an earlier version that at the time had no "name" associated with it. Excellent show by the way...
This photo from the 6/10/73 Kennedy Stadium shows a stack of Alembic 4x12 speaker cabinets on the far right as we face the stage.
As you said: " it is hard to argue that this can't be called the Wall of Sound, it is just an earlier version that at the time had no "name" associated with it."
... and Bill said: a difference in the Dead’s equipment is that the pre-Wall stuff had lots of tie-dye, but the Wall was open speakers, no tie-dye.
... so I am renaming this cabinet as an Alembic speaker cabinet from Grateful Dead's "Tie Dye" Wall of Sound!
-
Interesting discussion. Do you have a photo you can post of your cabinet?
-
Interesting discussion. Do you have a photo you can post of your cabinet?
Having a friend with camera come over soon and take pictures, will also get the outside dimension cabinet measurements.
-
Cool pics, Rob. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Jerry play the Strat with the numbers inlaid on the neck before. Interesting bridge on that one, more like a Les Paul! And I don’t believe I’ve seen Bobby playing an SG before, either.
Bobby played an SG for quite a bit of 1973. The picture with Jerry playing the Erlewine Strat (with the numbers on the fretboard) is from 5/13/73, where Jerry played that, Alligator, and the pre-Wolf Irwin guitar, which is the only known picture of him playing that guitar.
-
To me, the Wall of Sound was the giant wall with speakers stacked up to 32’ high (I’ve been told the 32’ stack was for Phil’s E string which put out a 32’ foot wave, crest to crest, and Phil wanted to put out the whole wave, not just a piece of it. I don’t know if that’s true, but it sure is a great story).
That was the reason because it was a line array, as originally theorized by Harry Olson in the 1930s in his book/treatise (of which I would be happy to send anyone a pdf copy- warning: lots of math). The way it works is that when you have a stack of speakers one wide and taller than the longest wavelength you want to throw, the physics of the propagation changes. Normal speakers propagate as a sphere or portion thereof and fall off exponentially (twice as a far is four times quieter) and send the sound all over the place. With a line array, the sound falls off linearly (or closer to it) and spreads horizontally, but far less vertically (so less spill into the rafters and reflecting off the floor). They were years ahead of their time and now all major PAs are designed as line arrays, EXCEPT for the bass, which seems sad. The low end benefits the most from the use of a line array, but it's still a little less than efficient to cart around 40 foot stacks. I've heard it done once, with the PA the GD brought to Oxford Plains in 1988. The low end was profound.
Dave Rat, the sound guy from the Red Hot Chili Peppers, did a bunch of experiments with how to project low end efficiently, including low end line arrays, and came up with something that requires fewer boxes that operates like a cardioid mic does, by having additional subs behind the regular subs and playing with the phase to cancel the sound behind the subs and focus the propagation to the front.
I don't doubt that the speakers for sale here are GD speakers, but I don't think they are the ones shown behind Keith in the pictures. Lining up the 2x12 cabs next to it, there's no way that 4 12s could fit. However, Jerry and, I think, Bobby, used 4x12 tie dye cabs in '72 for their guitars. As SkyPilot notes, there were many cabs that came and went. I don't know of any new cabinets after 1972 that were put onstage with tie dyes. Those, AFAIKT, all were made in 1971 into early 1972. By the end of 1972, the new cabs that were introduced were all open faced.
-
( edwin ) I don't doubt that the speakers for sale here are GD speakers,
For clarification I referred to the cabinet as "an original Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound project." I do not know what GD's arrangement was with Alembic or if GD actually owned everything Alembic produced related to the project during that time? Nor can I say that the GD ever actually played using this particular cabinet, only that it was produced by Alembic during that Pre-1974 Wall project development period.
I had a long discussion with Wolf who is knowledgeable about Alembic's construction of the GD speaker cabinets from that period and all the nuances are present regarding: the type of wood, machined aluminum speaker mounting clips, hex head bolts, input plug arrangement on the back, tie dye speaker cover, etc. All of those criteria are present. That's about all that I can factually say at this time.
-
**As discussed it would be logical given the specs and history, to access that the cabinet in question could be of Alembic origin in my opinion . **
It would be prudent to ascertain what the circuit integrity and load impedance are . As well as to the individual speaker impedance and wiring schematic as to parallel / series parallel specifications . A simple DCR ( DC RESISTANCE) measurement can reveal such specification as a minimum test and precaution for a sound test and standard reference for load impedance matching to a prospective amplifier. In my opinion it would be prudent to test the speakers individually with an audio signal generator that has provisions for output potential control. I would start at a safe frequency of 1000 Hz at low amplitude and descend downward to aprox 40 Hz slowly increasing the output with great caution and observing the excursion of the cone to make sure that it is not binding at the point of the voice-coil and magnet structure . This procedure I would repeat individually for each speaker in my opinion . I cannot guarantee or warrant that this procedure will not result in any undesirable results or damage due to any oxidation if it is present which is possible do to the length of storage time without use.
-
Bill & Greg's posts 3 & 4 up show once again why we need a "Like" button!
Peter
-
sonicus **As discussed it would be logical given the specs and history, to access that the cabinet in question could be of Alembic origin in my opinion . **
Thanx alot for the follow up Wolf. In the wide matrix of possibilities I suppose it could be argued "as a possibility" that this cabinet is a one off "exact copy of an Alembic GD speaker cabinet" however for obvious reasons the probability of that is extremely low. Since I'm not aware of any "Alembic GD speaker cabinet" certification centers there is no way to ever ascertain it was made by Alembic with absolute certainty however that same "lack of certification" argument could apply to thousands of things and could be argued endlessly I suppose?
sonicus It would be prudent to ascertain what the circuit integrity and load impedance are. As well as to the individual speaker impedance and wiring schematic as to parallel / series parallel specifications ......
Your testing regimen as stated would certainly be the way to go however such an undertaking is far beyond my skill set nor do I have the equipment necessary to perform such an analysis.
-
In my observations and experience with such" Front mounted Birch Plywood Genre speaker cabinets with aluminum machined and extruded speaker retainers " ; there were different variations in production from various sources .
There were those sold by Alembic at the old 60 Brady Location . There were ones that were made specifically for the GD Wall Of Sound . There were those sold by Bag End . Later the ones sold by Hard Truckers . Many of these share basic characteristics such as being mostly infinate baffles that used front mounted design and having been built using Birch Ply wood with high end cabinet building techniques and having bullnose routed edges . As well they shared the same genre of aluminum machined or extruded speaker retainers . Not all of the latter were GD cabinets although they shared design specification . Among the examples that I gave it should be noted I have seen at least 4 different sets of measurements for single 15 inch infinate baffle cabinets among this discussed genre , all from different builders .
-
In my observations and experience with such" Front mounted Birch Plywood Genre speaker cabinets with aluminum machined and extruded speaker retainers " ; there were different variations in production from various sources . There were those sold by Alembic as the old 60 Brady Location . There were ones that were made specifically for the GD Wall Of Sound . There were those sold by Bag End . Later the ones sold by Hard Truckers . Many of these share basic characteristics such as being mostly infinate baffles that used front mounted design and having been built using Birch Ply would with high end cabinet building techniques and having bullnose routed edges . As well they shared the same genre of aluminum machined or extruded speaker retainers . Not all of the latter were GD cabinets although they shared design specification . Among the examples that I gave it should be noted I have seen at least 4 different sets of measurements for single 15 inch infinate baffle among this discussed genre , all from different builders .
Well there you have it, with so many variations it is almost impossible to ascertain the provenance objectively with a reasonable degree of certainty. Too bad there are no "Alembic GD speaker cabinet" certification centers! What I can say is during that period in Marin County when we were playing music, 1966-1973, other than the GD, we never encountered anything like Alembic cabinets, anywhere, they were unconventional and unique in our circles. This includes the period when I worked for the Sons of Champlin between 1970-1972.
The only reason I was exposed directly to Alembic was because an friend of mine knew someone who worked there. Mark was a lead guitarist, had a Fender Jaguar guitar, and Alembic did extensive modifications to his Jaguar. When it was finished I went along with Mark to pick the guitar up at the Alembic shop, wonder whatever became of that modified Fender Jaguar?
-
Mark was a lead guitarist, had a Fender Jaguar guitar, and Alembic did extensive modifications to his Jaguar. When it was finished I went along with Mark to pick the guitar up at the Alembic shop, wonder whatever became of that modified Fender Jaguar?
That sounds like a cool platform for some Alembic mods...I'm imaging the thumbwheels with sealed mil spec pots, slick inlays...etc.
;D
-
Back in the day in a few bands and musicians also shared each others equipment in the way of amplifiers and speaker cabinets of such genre , If I am not mistaken I have seen the DEAD , NRPS & HOT TUNA with similar cabinets or perhaps even the same cabinets from time to time :) As Brothers of the local music scene this was common if I am not mistaken among a small close group of folks. I was a big Sons of Chaplin fan just to mention as well however I did not see these types of cabinets at their performances . I went to many of their shows with my friends , all of which were musicians .
-
It would be a huge asset to have actual photos and measurements that I can share with a few guitar players that I know to help facilitate concise communications to sell it for you . I would be happy to do that without compensation .
-
Bill & Greg's posts 3 & 4 up show once again why we need a "Like" button!
Peter
I LIke the idea of a Like button as it is like-able that I would use it frequently. (Wolf’s post #34 makes me want him as my personal Electronic Technician - he knows stufff! :D ).
Paul (who after winning the lottery or becoming King, fantasizes about forming an intentional community with a large number of this boards members hanging out really close by)
-
sonicus - Back in the day in a few bands and musicians also shared each others equipment in the way of amplifiers and speaker cabinets of such genre , If I am not mistaken I have seen the DEAD , NRPS & HOT TUNA with similar cabinets or perhaps even the same cabinets from time to time :) As Brothers of the local music scene this was common if I am not mistaken among a small close group of folks. I was a big Sons of Chaplin fan just to mention as well however I did not see these types of cabinets at their performances . I went to many of their shows with my friends, all of which were musicians .
One of the most versatile and rugged speaker cabinet systems the Sons of Champlin used in the early 1970s was the Electro Voice Eliminator cabinet.
Photo here is the Sons of Champlin equipment set up, summer 1973. The only thing missing is Bill Bowen's drum set.
NOTE: you will see several "tie dye" Fender Twin Reverbs as well as a "tie dye" cabinet like mine to the right of Geoff Palmer's xylophones. Between the Twin Reverbs are two Electro Voice Eliminator cabinets.
Photo: Sons of Champlin Sunday, March 16, 1969: Speedway Meadow, Golden Gate Park, 25th Avenue at Fulton Street, San Francisco, California. An afternoon free outdoor concert which lasted from 12 noon to 5:00pm and that was promoted by The 13th Tribe Presents. Also on the bill: MC5.
-
Just to add a little more, my dad maintains that the Wall of Sound was really never built.
This is easily the most provocative statement I have read on this forum. If the Wall was some kind of compromise, the mind reels at the thought of what Ron and Owsley initially envisioned (with Phil egging them on).
-
Just to add a little more, my dad maintains that the Wall of Sound was really never built.
This is easily the most provocative statement I have read on this forum. If the Wall was some kind of compromise, the mind reels at the thought of what Ron and Owsley initially envisioned (with Phil egging them on).
I was just catching up on the thread before my intended post of :
Mica, do think you could prevail upon your dad to enlighten us what (if The Wall wasn't it) it was meant to be??? I mean, holy moly, the mind boggles!
Peter
-
Just to add a little more, my dad maintains that the Wall of Sound was really never built.
This is easily the most provocative statement I have read on this forum. If the Wall was some kind of compromise, the mind reels at the thought of what Ron and Owsley initially envisioned (with Phil egging them on).
I was just catching up on the thread before my intended post of :
Mica, do think you could prevail upon your dad to enlighten us what (if The Wall wasn't it) it was meant to be??? I mean, holy moly, the mind boggles!
Peter
Exactly!
But then again not knowing the answer to the “real Wall” quest/ question allows for an interpretation by the listener as to what sonic possibilities were intended and just how close (or far) those thoughtful engineers got to audio nirvana...
Right?
-
OK Wolf, here's all of the photos
4 - 12"inch JBL speakers
Cabinet is" 28.75" X 30.5" X 12" deep.
-
Thanks !
Those photos and measurements will be very helpful to aid in the description, for us to spread the availability of this item ! I will share this information to a few guitar players that I know that might have an interest. As well anyone here at the Alembic Club can do the same as well . :) !
-
OK Wolf, here's all of the photos
Looks awesome! I bet it sounds great.
-
I see some 4x12's under the Twin Reverbs, the right stack looks like bare wood blonde cabs (?)
from 2-19-71:
(https://gratefuldeadoftheday.com/sites/default/files/02-19-1971.png)
(note Jerry's neat double exposure ;) )
-
I see some 4x12's under the Twin Reverbs, the right stack looks like bare wood blonde cabs (?)
from 2-19-71:
Note on far right Ron Mckernan (aka Pig Pen) on Hammond organ
(https://gratefuldeadoftheday.com/sites/default/files/02-19-1971.png)
-
I see some 4x12's under the Twin Reverbs, the right stack looks like bare wood blonde cabs (?)
from 2-19-71:
(https://gratefuldeadoftheday.com/sites/default/files/02-19-1971.png)
(note Jerry's neat double exposure ;) )
These are the cabs I was thinking of when this cab was described. It is going to make someone really happy.
-
I have shared a lead with photos and measurements of this item with 6 folks so far. Two have responded with a thanks for sharing but not interested in a purchase. Someone out there will indeed get a swell cabinet eventually . In searching my recollections from the 1970s I actually remember a friend of mine who played in a band that owned a cabinet such as this one .
-
I have shared a lead with photos and measurements of this item with 6 folks so far. Two have responded with a thanks for sharing but not interested in a purchase. Someone out there will indeed get a swell cabinet eventually . In searching my recollections from the 1970s I actually remember a friend of mine who played in a band that owned a cabinet such as this one .
Wolf, thanx for the update and your efforts. Although this is a really nice cabinet I understand that it is of rather esoteric origins, history and thus not a very conventional piece of equipment. Nonetheless I hope I can find a good home for it with a discerning musician who appreciates it as a fine example of Alembic's "Tie Dye" speaker cabinet work with the Dead back in the day!
-
In an attempt to further narrow the provenance of the cab in question: As Rob's first photo (post 7 of this thread) shows, some tie-dye was still in use in '73, along with the open-faced cabs that later became the norm. I just looked at a pic of the system at Boston Music Hall 11/30/73 (Grateful Dead Gear, p140) , and there are no 4Xs or tie-dye present.
So, GD use of Rick's cab would seem to date to between '71 or so (I think that's the earliest pix I've seen them in; I may be wrong there) and mid-'73 - which I think we can all agree was a fine time to be used!
Peter
-
In an attempt to further narrow the provenance of the cab in question: As Rob's first photo (post 7 of this thread) shows, some tie-dye was still in use in '73, along with the open-faced cabs that later became the norm. I just looked at a pic of the system at Boston Music Hall 11/30/73 (Grateful Dead Gear, p140) , and there are no 4Xs or tie-dye present. So, GD use of Rick's cab would seem to date to between '71 or so (I think that's the earliest pix I've seen them in; I may be wrong there) and mid-'73 - which I think we can all agree was a fine time to be used!
Peter
Peter, thank you for your posting. For clarification and full disclosure I am summarizing here several statements I have already made as to the provenance of this Alembic "Tie Dye" 4x12 speaker cabinet:
1) Please note the 1st sentence of my post. I said: "I have an original Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound PROJECT", I DID NOT say it was from "The Wall Of Sound as such." My view may disagree with more linear thinking that seeks to define "The Wall Of Sound as such" more strictly to a date certain final version that they toured with or other criteria???
2) Nor can I say that the GD ever actually played using this particular cabinet, only that it was produced by Alembic during that Pre-1974 Wall project development period.
3) I do not know what Grateful Dead's arrangement was with Alembic or if GD actually owned everything Alembic produced related to the "wall project" during that time? Alembic may have produced and sold these cabinets to their other customers during that period.
4) As Sonicus wrote at length in reply#37, apparently there were so many variations of these cabinets made by firms other than Alembic that it is almost impossible to ascertain the provenance objectively with a reasonable degree of certainty. I can only attest that during that period in Marin County when we were playing music, 1966-1973, other than the GD, we never encountered anything like these Alembic cabinets, they were unconventional and unique in our circles at that time. This includes the period when I worked for the Sons of Champlin between 1970-1972.
Thanx again, Rick
-
In an attempt to further narrow the provenance of the cab in question: As Rob's first photo (post 7 of this thread) shows, some tie-dye was still in use in '73, along with the open-faced cabs that later became the norm. I just looked at a pic of the system at Boston Music Hall 11/30/73 (Grateful Dead Gear, p140) , and there are no 4Xs or tie-dye present. So, GD use of Rick's cab would seem to date to between '71 or so (I think that's the earliest pix I've seen them in; I may be wrong there) and mid-'73 - which I think we can all agree was a fine time to be used!
Peter
Peter, thank you for your posting. For clarification and full disclosure I am summarizing here several statements I have already made as to the provenance of this Alembic "Tie Dye" 4x12 speaker cabinet:
1) Please note the 1st sentence of my post. I said: "I have an original Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound PROJECT", I DID NOT say it was from "The Wall Of Sound as such." My view may disagree with more linear thinking that seeks to define "The Wall Of Sound as such" more strictly to a date certain final version that they toured with or other criteria???
2) Nor can I say that the GD ever actually played using this particular cabinet, only that it was produced by Alembic during that Pre-1974 Wall project development period.
3) I do not know what Grateful Dead's arrangement was with Alembic or if GD actually owned everything Alembic produced related to the "wall project" during that time? Alembic may have produced and sold these cabinets to their other customers during that period.
4) As Sonicus wrote at length in reply#37, apparently there were so many variations of these cabinets made by firms other than Alembic that it is almost impossible to ascertain the provenance objectively with a reasonable degree of certainty. I can only attest that during that period in Marin County when we were playing music, 1966-1973, other than the GD, we never encountered anything like these Alembic cabinets, they were unconventional and unique in our circles at that time. This includes the period when I worked for the Sons of Champlin between 1970-1972.
Thanx again, Rick
Rick, you seem to be taking offense where none is intended; as I said, I was trying to narrow the possible range of time of your cab's advent. But let me respond to your comments one by one:
1. The Wall Of Sound is a term used by pretty much everybody to refer a specific system - albeit a fluid one - used during a specific time span. By your usage, we have to include the tiny, nameless cab in front of Pig's organ at Magoo's in '65 as part of "the Wall Of Sound Project".
2. To say it was from the Wall Of Sound - by either definition - is to say it was used by the Grateful Dead, as that was their system. The pic you posted of such a cab by Keith reinforces that impression.
3. No, and (I believe) yes.
4. "it is almost impossible to ascertain the provenance objectively with a reasonable degree of certainty." This is, of course, true. I was assuming, however (and perhaps this is just an artifact of my training as an historian and archivist) that getting as close as possible was a good thing; I sincerely apologize if I was mistaken. I will refrain from further comment on your thread, and again - good luck with the sale, and I wish buying it was an option for me.
Peter
-
Rick, you seem to be taking offense where none is intended; as I said, I was trying to narrow the possible range of time of your cab's advent. But let me respond to your comments one by one: I will refrain from further comment on your thread, and again - good luck with the sale, and I wish buying it was an option for me. Peter [/quote]
Peter, as I said on my previous post "Peter, thank you for your posting." All of the postings have been helpful and enlightening.
The numbered outline was compiled from my previous postings for the purpose of clarification, full disclosure, and to try to proactively avoid any misunderstandings. I did not post the numbered outline as a particular response to your posting.
So again Peter, thank you for your additional information and posting.
-
If only this cab was impregnated with helium and hermetically sealed. If it didn't weigh a tenth of a ton, I'd be all over it! (My ears say "YES", but my almost 65 year old back responds with an emphatic "NO").
Bill, tgo
-
Rick, you seem to be taking offense where none is intended; as I said, I was trying to narrow the possible range of time of your cab's advent. But let me respond to your comments one by one: I will refrain from further comment on your thread, and again - good luck with the sale, and I wish buying it was an option for me. Peter
[/i]
Peter, as I said on my previous post "Peter, thank you for your posting." All of the postings have been helpful and enlightening.
The numbered outline was compiled from my previous postings for the purpose of clarification, full disclosure, and to try to proactively avoid any misunderstandings. I did not post the numbered outline as a particular response to your posting.
So again Peter, thank you for your additional information and posting.
[/quote]
OK, good; communication can so easily go sideways without the additional info of tone of voice & body language. I'm glad we don't have a problem, and am sorry I misinterpreted.
Peter
-
Here's a nice photo from 1971 showing a 4x12, GD with Jorma sitting in, must have been a fun show!
-
...and I took this photo sometime in the 80s during a Box of Rain, looks like Weir continued to favor the 4x12 cab :)
-
Here's a nice photo from 1971 showing a 4x12, GD with Jorma sitting in, must have been a fun show!
Is that a Gibson Barney Kessel Bob's playing?!? Never saw that one before.
Peter
-
And is that a 6-string Doug Irwin bass that Phil's playing in the 2nd pic??? At first I thought it was the Ken Smith by the headstock...
-
That is not an Irwin bass . It may be a Ken Smith . :)
-
I think that is, in fact, a Smith, Harry; what looks at first (or, in my case, second) glance like the Tiger-like scooped upper bass bout characteristic of Doug's work at that time seems, on closer examination, to be an effect of the mic stand shadow. And to the best of my knowledge, Phil only had the one Irwin.
And, just to round things out, in the 2nd pic, Bob's on a Modulus; in the 1st, Jer has a '62 or '63 SG, and Phil one of his EBs (though Billy's cymbal prevents us from seeing from which one - I've seen pix of him with at least 3 different ones - and whether it was stock or modded). Can't tell what Jorma's playing, but it doesn't seem to be his usual 345.
Peter
-
The pic RV bass posted of the '71 gig in an auditorium is the clearest
record of a JBL loaded bare blonde 4x12 in the Dead's backline.
I enlarged it for those of us with older eyes (guilty ;) ).
(see attachment)
If only there was a little sticker, or piece of tape, or odd bit of wood grain that could
help with provenance. I see one JBL on skypilot's cab has a different color
cork surround (upper right). That might be helpful if it matches a picture that surfaces.
I'd love to own and play through it every day,considering it's weight and distance I'll just send best wishes towards a fruitful sale :)
Also here's a neat pic I hadn't seen, a view from behind the curtain.
.
I dig those little cabs.
(also...gotta wonder what's going on with that amp. )
(https://preview.redd.it/zva5x5w36tz01.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7974109ea40c845c85fb4a95efd2992f34e32250)
-
That’s a Modulus that Phil is playing in the photo I posted previously, here’s another photo of it taken by someone else. Looks like the body may be graphite as well. Sorry to get off topic.
-
That’s a Modulus that Phil is playing the the photo I posted previously, here’s another photo of it taken by someone else. Looks like the body may be graphite as well. Sorry to get off topic.
WOW!!! I also apologize for going off-topic, but that bass is fascinating! I mistakenly identified the body shape as "Doug Irwin" but it obviously has a broader provenance - maybe I should have called it the Tribute shape. Anyway, this bass deserves its own thread! I've never seen pics of it before - I thought the Ken Smith and Jazz Bass in the '80s were rare!
-
I can see how one can see the slight Doug irwin shape influence . :) ____ As well in the other photo it does seem as it is a Modulus indeed.
-
Modulus logo on the headstock.
Bill, tgo
-
Phil played Ken Smith basses in the late 80's... 88 and maybe 89 if I remember correctly. I have seen that Modulus bass of Phil's before, it is one of the early ones. Not sure, though, that I have ever seen another one like it. Could be a prototype.
-
Here is another shot of Phil's all graphite Modulus... picture was taken in 1986 and is in the collection of the Grateful Dead Archive.
-
Thanks for the pic Stephen,
mmmmm.... "Alien Pie" :P
I happen to have that 2u rack unit at the top (the input module), I love seeing more pics of it on stage with Phil...crazy how this equipment gets scattered over the years
(trying to stay on topic ;) )
-
wow what a great legacy.
-
This cab is now on SF Bay Area Craigslist for $3000.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/msg/d/petaluma-alembic-4x12-jbl-d120f-tye-die/7055981269.html (https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/msg/d/petaluma-alembic-4x12-jbl-d120f-tye-die/7055981269.html)
Bill, tgo
-
Kinda steep
-
But it might (or might not) be part of the previously unnamed "pre-1974 Wall of Sound Grateful Dead project development period"!
Bill, tgo