Author Topic: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound  (Read 4402 times)

cozmik_cowboy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7338
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2019, 07:03:46 PM »
Just to add a little more, my dad maintains that the Wall of Sound was really never built.

This is easily the most provocative statement I have read on this forum. If the Wall was some kind of compromise, the mind reels at the thought of what Ron and Owsley initially envisioned (with Phil egging them on).


I was just catching up on the thread before my intended post of :

Mica, do think you could prevail upon your dad to enlighten us what (if The Wall wasn't it) it was meant to be???  I mean, holy moly, the mind boggles!

Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

pauldo

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4901
  • What chaos . . . ?
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2019, 10:05:16 PM »
Just to add a little more, my dad maintains that the Wall of Sound was really never built.

This is easily the most provocative statement I have read on this forum. If the Wall was some kind of compromise, the mind reels at the thought of what Ron and Owsley initially envisioned (with Phil egging them on).


I was just catching up on the thread before my intended post of :

Mica, do think you could prevail upon your dad to enlighten us what (if The Wall wasn't it) it was meant to be???  I mean, holy moly, the mind boggles!

Peter

Exactly! 

But then again not knowing the answer to the “real Wall” quest/ question allows for an interpretation by the listener as to what sonic possibilities were intended and just how close (or far) those thoughtful engineers got to audio nirvana...

Right?

SkyPilot

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Alembic speaker cabinet from Grateful Dead "Tie Dye" Wall of Sound
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2019, 12:27:42 PM »
OK Wolf, here's all of the photos

4 - 12"inch JBL speakers

Cabinet is" 28.75" X 30.5" X 12" deep.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 01:16:54 PM by SkyPilot »
Takeoffs are optional ... landings are mandatory

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2019, 02:32:02 PM »
Thanks !
Those photos  and measurements will be very helpful to aid in the description,  for us to spread the availability of this item !  I will share this information to a few guitar players that I know that might have an interest. As well anyone here at the Alembic Club can do the same as well . :) !

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2020, 08:22:26 PM »
OK Wolf, here's all of the photos


Looks awesome! I bet it sounds great.

elwoodblue

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2784
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2020, 11:50:05 PM »
I see some 4x12's under the Twin Reverbs, the right stack looks like bare wood blonde cabs (?)


from 2-19-71:





(note Jerry's neat double exposure  ;) )

SkyPilot

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Alembic speaker cabinet from Grateful Dead "Tie Dye" Wall of Sound
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2020, 08:04:16 AM »
I see some 4x12's under the Twin Reverbs, the right stack looks like bare wood blonde cabs (?)

from 2-19-71:

Note on far right Ron Mckernan (aka Pig Pen) on Hammond organ



« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 08:25:09 PM by SkyPilot »
Takeoffs are optional ... landings are mandatory

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2020, 08:18:01 PM »
I see some 4x12's under the Twin Reverbs, the right stack looks like bare wood blonde cabs (?)


from 2-19-71:





(note Jerry's neat double exposure  ;) )

These are the cabs I was thinking of when this cab was described. It is going to make someone really happy.

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2020, 10:04:35 AM »
I have shared a lead  with photos and measurements of this item with 6 folks so far. Two have responded with a thanks for sharing but not interested in a purchase. Someone out there will indeed get a swell cabinet eventually . In searching my recollections from the 1970s  I actually remember a friend of mine who played in a band that owned a cabinet such as this one .

SkyPilot

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Alembic speaker cabinet from Grateful Dead "Tie Dye" Wall of Sound
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2020, 11:33:16 AM »
I have shared a lead  with photos and measurements of this item with 6 folks so far. Two have responded with a thanks for sharing but not interested in a purchase. Someone out there will indeed get a swell cabinet eventually . In searching my recollections from the 1970s  I actually remember a friend of mine who played in a band that owned a cabinet such as this one .

Wolf, thanx for the update and your efforts. Although this is a really nice cabinet I understand that it is of rather esoteric origins, history and thus not a very conventional piece of equipment. Nonetheless I hope I can find a good home for it with a discerning musician who appreciates it as a fine example of Alembic's "Tie Dye" speaker cabinet work with the Dead back in the day!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 11:35:41 AM by SkyPilot »
Takeoffs are optional ... landings are mandatory

cozmik_cowboy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7338
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2020, 09:17:39 AM »
In an attempt to further narrow the provenance of the cab in question:  As Rob's first photo (post 7 of this thread) shows, some tie-dye was still in use in '73, along with the open-faced cabs that later became the norm.  I just looked at a pic of the system at Boston Music Hall 11/30/73 (Grateful Dead Gear, p140) , and there are no 4Xs or tie-dye present.
So, GD use of Rick's cab would seem to date to between '71 or so (I think that's the earliest pix I've seen them in; I may be wrong there) and mid-'73 - which I think we can all agree was a fine time to be used!


Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

SkyPilot

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Alembic speaker cabinet from Grateful Dead "Tie Dye" Wall of Sound
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2020, 10:05:54 AM »
In an attempt to further narrow the provenance of the cab in question:  As Rob's first photo (post 7 of this thread) shows, some tie-dye was still in use in '73, along with the open-faced cabs that later became the norm.  I just looked at a pic of the system at Boston Music Hall 11/30/73 (Grateful Dead Gear, p140) , and there are no 4Xs or tie-dye present. So, GD use of Rick's cab would seem to date to between '71 or so (I think that's the earliest pix I've seen them in; I may be wrong there) and mid-'73 - which I think we can all agree was a fine time to be used!
Peter

Peter, thank you for your posting. For clarification and full disclosure I am summarizing here several statements I have already made as to the provenance of this Alembic "Tie Dye" 4x12 speaker cabinet:

1) Please note the 1st sentence of my post.  I said: "I have an original Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound PROJECT", I DID NOT say it was from "The Wall Of Sound as such."  My view may disagree with more linear thinking that seeks to define "The Wall Of Sound as such" more strictly to a date certain final version that they toured with or other criteria???

2) Nor can I say that the GD ever actually played using this particular cabinet, only that it was produced by Alembic during that Pre-1974 Wall project development period.

3) I do not know what Grateful Dead's arrangement was with Alembic or if GD actually owned everything Alembic produced related to the "wall project" during that time?  Alembic may have produced and sold these cabinets to their other customers during that period.

4) As Sonicus wrote at length in reply#37, apparently there were so many variations of these cabinets made by firms other than Alembic that it is almost impossible to ascertain the provenance objectively with a reasonable degree of certainty. I can only attest that during that period in Marin County when we were playing music, 1966-1973, other than the GD, we never encountered anything like these Alembic cabinets, they were unconventional and unique in our circles at that time. This includes the period when I worked for the Sons of Champlin between 1970-1972.

Thanx again, Rick
Takeoffs are optional ... landings are mandatory

cozmik_cowboy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7338
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2020, 12:03:26 PM »
In an attempt to further narrow the provenance of the cab in question:  As Rob's first photo (post 7 of this thread) shows, some tie-dye was still in use in '73, along with the open-faced cabs that later became the norm.  I just looked at a pic of the system at Boston Music Hall 11/30/73 (Grateful Dead Gear, p140) , and there are no 4Xs or tie-dye present. So, GD use of Rick's cab would seem to date to between '71 or so (I think that's the earliest pix I've seen them in; I may be wrong there) and mid-'73 - which I think we can all agree was a fine time to be used!
Peter

Peter, thank you for your posting. For clarification and full disclosure I am summarizing here several statements I have already made as to the provenance of this Alembic "Tie Dye" 4x12 speaker cabinet:

1) Please note the 1st sentence of my post.  I said: "I have an original Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound PROJECT", I DID NOT say it was from "The Wall Of Sound as such."  My view may disagree with more linear thinking that seeks to define "The Wall Of Sound as such" more strictly to a date certain final version that they toured with or other criteria???

2) Nor can I say that the GD ever actually played using this particular cabinet, only that it was produced by Alembic during that Pre-1974 Wall project development period.

3) I do not know what Grateful Dead's arrangement was with Alembic or if GD actually owned everything Alembic produced related to the "wall project" during that time?  Alembic may have produced and sold these cabinets to their other customers during that period.

4) As Sonicus wrote at length in reply#37, apparently there were so many variations of these cabinets made by firms other than Alembic that it is almost impossible to ascertain the provenance objectively with a reasonable degree of certainty. I can only attest that during that period in Marin County when we were playing music, 1966-1973, other than the GD, we never encountered anything like these Alembic cabinets, they were unconventional and unique in our circles at that time. This includes the period when I worked for the Sons of Champlin between 1970-1972.

Thanx again, Rick

Rick, you seem to be taking offense where none is intended; as I said, I was trying to narrow the possible range of time of your cab's advent.  But let me respond to your comments one by one:

1. The Wall Of Sound is a term used by pretty much everybody to refer a specific system - albeit a fluid one -  used during a specific time span.  By your usage, we have to include the tiny, nameless cab in front of Pig's organ at Magoo's in '65 as part of "the Wall Of Sound Project".

2.  To say it was from the Wall Of Sound - by either definition - is to say it was used by the Grateful Dead, as that was their system.  The pic you posted of such a cab by Keith reinforces that impression.

3. No, and (I believe) yes.

4. "it is almost impossible to ascertain the provenance objectively with a reasonable degree of certainty."  This is, of course, true.  I was assuming, however (and perhaps this is just an artifact of my training as an historian and archivist) that getting as close as possible was a good thing; I sincerely apologize if I was mistaken.  I will refrain from further comment on your thread, and again - good luck with the sale, and I wish buying it was an option for me.

Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

SkyPilot

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's "Tie Dye" Wall of Sound
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2020, 12:24:06 PM »
Rick, you seem to be taking offense where none is intended; as I said, I was trying to narrow the possible range of time of your cab's advent.  But let me respond to your comments one by one:  I will refrain from further comment on your thread, and again - good luck with the sale, and I wish buying it was an option for me. Peter [/quote]

Peter, as I said on my previous post "Peter, thank you for your posting." All of the postings have been helpful and enlightening

The numbered outline was compiled from my previous postings for the purpose of clarification, full disclosure, and to try to proactively avoid any misunderstandings. I did not post the numbered outline as a particular response to your posting.

So again Peter, thank you for your additional information and posting.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 12:26:42 PM by SkyPilot »
Takeoffs are optional ... landings are mandatory

lbpesq

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10683
Re: Alembic speaker cabinet from the Grateful Dead's wall of sound
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2020, 12:32:06 PM »
If only this cab was impregnated with helium and hermetically sealed.  If it didn't weigh a tenth of a ton, I'd be all over it!  (My ears say "YES", but my almost 65 year old back responds with an emphatic "NO").

Bill, tgo