Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: edwardofhuncote on April 10, 2019, 11:22:57 AM
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I thought this might be fun...
My upright bass shop is pretty busy lately, and could be busier if I wanted it to be... maybe one day. Not sure if I want to take it there, or keep it a side-hustle, but sometimes I get into fun and/or interesting projects up there, mostly upright basses, but sometimes something totally random walks in. Sometimes I end up working several days and nights on a pile of junk. (I'll only post a highlight reel of these... ;D) Rather than start a new thread every time, I thought maybe what I'd do was just update this one with some of my usual ramblings, intertwined with some pictures of ongoing projects.
The first installment is almost ready; customer is coming to pick up his bass tomorrow night. Hang on... :)
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That looks nice!
I was thinking about getting an upright again.. until I saw what they go for these days, lol.
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sounds like a good idea...I might be doing a new side hustle or new job too, maybe going back to the bicycle industry...that'll be weird...
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First up was this 1949 Kay M-1 that came in a couple weeks ago with some seam separations, a deeply grooved fingerboard, and desperately needing a good setup. Other than that, it was in remarkably good condition, never having had the typical broken neck. More importantly, it never got a bunch of hincky repairs done that had to be undone first. That's what tends to happen with many of the jobs that come my way... mine is the shop of last resort in a lot of cases. Not so with this Kay... it was a joy to work on one that wasn't a basket-case. I'm already done with it actually, and it's new owner is coming to pick it up later this evening, but here are a few pictures of job. Admittedly, I coulda'-woulda'-shoulda' taken more 'before' pictures, but I hadn't thought about this at the time. :D
The seam separations were an easy repair... it took me longer to find the right size clamps and some cauls than to squeeze some glue in. That was an overnight fix. You guys didn't really want to see glue drying didja'? I should've snapped a couple pictures of the clamping works... I have some made-up just for this job. Again - next time.
The real work here was in planing and dressing the fingerboard. You can mess up pretty good here... and end up chasing a buzz around or worse, creating one where none existed. I have a series of sanding beams with adhesive-backed sandpaper in different grits that are used for this job. After truing the board up, I like to wet-sand rosewood or ebony with 1000-grit, then burnish with some 0000 steel wool then oil the fresh bare wood before applying a couple coats of finishing wax. It makes for a nice glossy look with a durable surface. This fingerboard by the way, is a particularly pretty slab of Brazilian rosewood, typical of the time. Kay had some nice stuff back then! *Important safety tip - don't breathe this dust.
After that, it was time to set it back up, cutting a new bridge and soundpost, and restringing with a new set of D'Addario Zyex. (Zyex is a goid pizz/arco hybrid set that isn't stoopid expensive) I always save the two bridge feet, the bridge top, and the soundpost remnant for future shims or reference. (this habit is just another OCD Ed of H. thing... you'll see a lot of that happen here, but it's nice having the exact peices of wood to shim with if and when you ever need them)
Like most old basses are by the time they get to me, the endpin was missing the rubber protector, plus this ones thumbscrew was cross-threaded and useless. I keep a drawer of these items and some other common hardware I often have to replace stocked in a variety of sizes.
Finally... time for a test drive. This bass turned out super-nice. The sound is very balanced for a laminated bass. Sometimes these are a little bit lop-sided, tone-wise, but this one is strong on all four strings, no wolfs or dead spots. I love the burst finish, especially on the M-1 body with full violin style points.
Here is a good resource on Kay basses, if you're interested in reading more... http://www.kaybass.com/ ...they've been around since 1937 and since October 1969, still are being made under the name of Engelhardt-Link just outside Chicago, Illinois. https://www.linkbassandcello.com/
Stay tuned... next up is a European upright with a loose bass bar and subsequently, collapsed top. It isn't pretty, but it is classy, and I believe it has a lot of potential.
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Good to hear you are expanding your upright bass work. Uprights seem to always need attention.
Just to toss this out there...
After 45 years of playing bass tuned in 4ths I have switched my classical upright over to 5ths. Why, you keenly ask? I’ve been playing a lot of classical chamber music with an orchestra and the music is a true double of the cello part, going lower than E.
Most bassists use an extension (or 5 string in Europe) to go down to low C. In 5ths tuning from low to high my strings are C,G,D,A. The scroll of my bass is a bit forward and installing an extension means cutting the scroll. I chose to relearn the fingerboard. The bass sounds beautiful in 5ths, super low and super high. The high A sounds a bit more cello like now.
It certainly has been a challenge to relearn all the notes, but I have adjusted. My jazz upright is still in 4ths tuning, I prefer it that way for jazz.
Here is an example of upright bass played in 5ths tuning.
Best wishes for your upright bass repair work Gregory.
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Hey, great to see you here again Casey V!
I'm working on the next installment now, a Czechoslovakian with a loose bass bar and fallen top. Maybe ready to post tomorrow. ;)
I play just enough mandolin and cello to be dangerous to myself, so the fifths tuning isn't completely foreign to me, but... hmm. I may have to think about that a little. I can see the advantage for chamber music, and arco segments in general, but it might present few unnecessary challenges for folk musicians.
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You play some mandolin and cello ...cool!
The tuning in 5ths imho does not work so great for jazz or folk with bowing specific strings as you lose that pizz growl and definition of the note, and guitar is in 4ths. Red Mitchell fans may argue it. 5ths work great for classical bowing, and the whole orchestra is in 5ths except for basses. Good bowing strings are very different than good pizz strings, really adds to the difference. I use arco specific strings for classical. That’s one reason I have kept an upright in 4ths for jazz, with good old growly Spiro strings.
Speaking of mandolin (which is tuned in 5ths) did you know that a left handed mandolin (or violin) is the same note locations (but sounds reverse) as a right handed bass tuned in 4ths? This odd brain twisting fact came to me while exploring the bass in 5ths fingerboard.
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Cool debate, so great being part of this community.
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True story... when I first started playing mandolin, it occurred to me- "this thing is upside-down and backwards!"
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So, I started on the European upright (turns out, made in Czechoslovakia) with the collapsing top a couple nights ago... as suspected, the bass bar had come loose from the top on one end allowing it to sag, but that was only part of the story, which I would find out later. There are some other troubles within - nothing insurmountable, but the top of this this bass can't support string tension without some supplemental structure work.
To start with, members of the violin family all have this in common; a brace of wood glued, or sometimes (less-often) relief-carved, running longitudinally, passing underneath the 'bass' side of the bridge. There is an upright dowel called a soundpost, that supports the treble side, and also transfers vibration to the back. Without these in place, string tension will eventually collapse a top.
I've included a few pictures of some tools I use for the various steps of the job at hand. Don't even ask how I find anything in that workbench drawer... I just know whatever I want is in there, and keep looking until I find it!
Nothing too complicated here... inspection mirror, flashlight, flexible light, seam separation knives, an old steam iron, and the two small bottles are water and white vinegar. (breaks down glue joints marvelously) And check out this tiny little ball-peen hammer. I used it to finnesse-tap out the tailgut nut in the picture there, which is Step 1 in top removal. Next, I start easing the top off with the knives. This one, like a lot of European basses, had a wood pin at each end. Sometimes these have to be cut or drilled out. I was able to work around these.
Inside, some mouse and spider... uhhh... evidence of residence. And some pretty serious delamination. The layer the bass bar glues to is loose. This bass has been in water. Plywood doesn't respond well to being wet. And I just got into a bigger job.
Fear not... repairs are already underway... more later...
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True story... when I first started playing mandolin, it occurred to me- "this thing is upside-down and backwards!"
Ditto
Gregory,
I believe you mentioned you learned your rebuilding/ refurbishing skills from your father... it really looks like an absolutely fulfilling career. Appreciate you sharing the photos and dialog.
Side note:
My grandparents on my mom’s side were from Czechoslovakia, my grandfather played ukulele, harmonica and loved to slam away on his piano... Eubie Blake was one of his favorite pianist. As I type this I sit next to his piano with the cigarette burn on the bench seat.
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OK.....so It's an Upright Spyder Bass? :)
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;D ;D ;D
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Good Morning & Happy Easter. I'm not in the Scroll Shop today, but I worked until late up there several nights this week, and the Czech bass project is moving right along. Here's the latest:
Other than some incidental de-laminations around the outside edges from removing the top, here is the worst part... you can clearly see a waterline where this bass has been wet. The plywood layers began to separate, and the one directly underneath the bass bar let go. The top then began to sink. Bad as this looks, I've actually seen a lot worse. It looks bad now because it's all loose and jagged... gimme' a little while to work on that with glue and clamps, and a few press-cauls. While working on that, I'll also be gluing down a few loose places around the edges. (I love those little clothespin clamps for that) Now check out the Before & After pictures. I've still got some work to do... this is just 'after' the clamps came off. Time to clean up the mess and begin reconstruction. Note to self: Be careful with sharp things!
One other issue that needs to be addressed before we put this bass back together... this top has sunken in a weird place. I don't want to completely remove the bass bar and re-press the top, and don't really have the means to do that if I wanted to. I just need to put about 1/4" - 1/2" of arch back into this top down in the lower bout... I may have already thought up a solution for this. More on that later, but keep this in mind for the next segment. The artist is going into hiding and the structural engineer is about to take over... gears are grinding!
Aww... what the heck - here's a teaser. I still have to test it. It'd be a shame to find out it wasn't sufficiently rigid after putting the top back on the bass.
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Gregory,
I find this all very interesting and fantasize for a late life career change. Thank you for sharing so much.
Are you going to add a perpendicular brace to push the back bow on the top out?
Does leaving residual glue on the inside (where there is no concern for aesthetics) impact the vibration/ tone?
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Paul has correctly guessed the next installment, and should win a matching zebrawood Spoiler to go with his Distillate! Good Call, Bro. Paul! ;D
What little bit of glue is left behind inside won't matter much to this bass... it was going to be messy no matter what, but to tell the truth, it's looking pretty good right now. I'll go ahead and show you all my transverse brace all clamped up. (the clamps come off tomorrow) As you can see, I got a very smooth, uniform glue joint all the way across. That was incredibly hard to fit! It seems to have pushed the top out enough, and I believe it'll add just enough extra rigidity to hold it under tension without having added too much mass to adversely affect the overall sound. (only one way to know I guess...) For what it's worth, I made the brace out of a good piece of quartered spruce, so the grain is supporting the load here too, by the way... just like the bass bar is. (or any other guitar bracing would be)
FYI- this procedure is not in the violin repair handbook... it was strictly seat-of-the-pants-do-what-you-gotta'-do fix here. This bass was getting saved here; the next option was a new top, which of course far exceeds the value of the instrument.
Here ya' go:
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Paul, I don't know if this is what I want to do with life when I retire or not. I will definitely be doing something else (for insurance) but my 30 years of public service are up in 2021, and I may end up full-time in my shop... who knows. My Dad is going to retire from his job this year and is making sounds like he may want to build some more banjos. I'd be tickled if that involved me again too. I have a pretty steady stream of work coming from a local music store, that could be more if I wanted it to be. This bass is one of their jobs actually. Plus I get walk-ins regularly. Over the years I've gotten a pretty good rep for setting up basses that play nice, and it gets around.
See, there aren't many shops that'll even take on a bass like this... it ends up with a bill that like I said, exceeds the value of the bass. But if you're willing and able to employ some radical ideas to save one here and there, and charge accordingly, I think there's an opportunity for me. Realistically I could turn it into a profitable thing, but for now I'm good just keeping it loose. Helps me support the habits y'know! ;D
Anyway, I appreciate the audience here. :D
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My Dad is going to retire from his job this year and is making sounds like he may want to build some more banjos. I'd be tickled if that involved me again too.
Now that sounds like a retirement plan!
Just the other day I was thinking (honestly!) "Those first 2 banjos by Greg & his dad looked really nice in that old thread; I wonder if they still do that, and what they'd charge for a 6-string version?"
Peter (for whom the question is still, alas, purely rhetorical - but by then, who knows?)
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You are a talented dude Greg!
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We've never built a guitar-banjo Coz, but there are a pair of cello-banjos in limbo-progress. I'd be all for making a large pot guit-jo sometime. :)
I was just looking at #27 yesterday over at Mom & Dad's place... he's got it disassembled on his bench for some reason. It's a beautiful burled walnut banjo with maple and abalone inlay, maybe my favorite one we ever did. My only concern is that the shop wouldn't be big enough. I'm tooled up for working on upright basses, and there isn't a lot of elbow room when I have two or three jobs going on at once. If Pops gets interested in a comeback tour though, even a part-time one, we'll have to make some adjustments. I miss doing that team building.
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I call it a 'transverse arched brace', and it seems to be working... the top pressed back out to a smooth radius. :)
Unfortunately, after taking the clamps off yesterday evening though, I discovered another de-lamination around the lower edge that required gluing and clamping overnight. Hopefully, barring any more of these, I'll be able to put the top back on this bass tonight, and be ready to set it back up later this week. I feel good enough about it to call and order a set of strings. This one is getting Eurosonic Lights, a braided tapewound string that does a good job approximating the sound of gut.
Here's the triumph of physics over nature... at least that's how I hope this goes! ;D
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Following the repairs you do is fascinating. Here's hoping the work continues to flow in (at a reasonable rate for you to handle) and you continue to post.
I'm going to display my ignorance here of all large instruments shaped like violins but I'll ask anyway
1) Is the brace you added meant to be permanent or merely temporary to press the top back out? Or is it the case that once a collapse occurs its likely to take place again unless there is some bracing added?
(2) What, if anything, is the additional bracing likely to due to the sound?
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Brian I am interested in the answer to your second question also.
Gregory, you truly are a craftsman. And a bit of Macgyver with the Transversed Arch Brace! ;D
Brilliantly creative and very functional.
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The brace will be permanent. Truth be told, you'd be hard-pressed to get it back out of there now. If I could have pressed the top out and made it stay some other way, that would have been better. This was sunken in a weird spot, and with all that de-lamination from being wet, I really had few choices. I thought about adding another layer of ply inside, but the 'how' of clamping a big piece of thin, glue-soaked veneer into place wasn't practical. My brace helps bind, as well as strengthen the arch. Tried not to over-think it. ::)
I don't think it'll have much effect on the sound. The brace is so lightweight (just a couple ounces of spruce) and covers so little of the resonating surface of the massive table, that I'm guessing it's effect will be negligible. But like I was saying, this is not a recommended practice... this is saving a badly compromised top, so if we gave up a little bit of volume or tone... it's gotta' sound better than it would have been. There's always the option of a pickup.
I was hoping to glue the top back on last night, but when inspecting the body and cleaning up some old glue spill, (plus the uhhh... mouse leavins') I found a seam separation in the lower bout and a nasty looking shear in the rib that I figured was worth fixing while they were easy to get to. Strings and a new bridge will be in tomorrow, I'll stick the top back on tonight.
More pics... that rib clamp jig is a piece of saran-wrapped foam sandwiched between two cauls. It doesn't have to be pretty, but I couldn't leave that jagged mess. :P
I miss McGyver. ;D
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It's quite inspiring seeing these pics of the work in action. Thanks for sharing! I love looking at this thread :)
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Those last repairs went well... the bass was finally ready to re-assemble last night. First, here's how that ugly, jagged place in the waist rib came together. I was pretty happy with that, so I finished cleaning up some glue, then using a palm sander, scuffed the whole inside of the body, then followed with a damp cloth.
The top is solid now too... I put it in place to check alignment with the corner blocks and the neck and tail blocks, 'dry clamping' in place for a minute to size and position all my other clamping jigs. These are very important fit points, because as you can see, they make up the strongest glue joints. Remember up-thread I mentioned those wood pins at the neck and tail-blocks? This is why. ;) (they can either make this job easy, or make you use swear-words... >:( )
Y'all hang on now... it's about to get sticky! I promise, next time you see this one, it'll look more like a big fiddle again.
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Ooh.
I should probably stop following this. Seeing all the great pics and explanations makes me think I could take my doghouse apart! :o
So with that in mind...
Gregory, obviously getting the top back on correctly is super important. How did you get the top off with out ending up with a bucket full of splinters? Gentle application of heat to the glue?
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I use heat, a set of seam separating knives, and water (or sometimes white vinegar) to break the glue joint down Paul, but if you look back up-thread, you'll see there are almost always some splintered pieces of veneer that hang on. It's not too big a deal on this one, as the top is going right back on where it came off. Oftentimes I'll pull (or peel) the larger ones and glue them in place to the top while disassembled.
I'm about to pull the clamping jig off where I glued the top back on last night. Nothing fancy about these... they're just some threaded rod and cork-lined plywood cauls I made to fit generically around basses. Again, maximum pressure applied to the blocks is crucial. I use the cam clamps or screw clamps for that.
I'll spend the rest of this evening cutting a new bridge and soundpost, and re-stringing, and will tweak the action to final tolerances after it has a day to settle. Also, a little shameless plug for Gollihur Music. https://www.gollihurmusic.com/ Mark Gollihur is one of my main suppliers of upright strings and parts. It's great dealing with people you know personally, who know you, and know what you need. Good guys there.
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Happy to report, if the transverse brace had any effect at all on the sound of the bass, it's insignificant. This one is a thumper - it rattles the windows in my shop!
I got the bridge feet and soundpost cut and fit perfectly, and put it under full string tension. Got the action darn close, but it still needs some adjustment. I'm tired though, quittin' for the night. I'll watch the top for any sinking over the next couple days, do my final clean-up and tweak the action in, then this one goes home. Maybe Saturday. Or Monday at the latest.
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Nicely done, sir!
These threads of yours put me in mind of a page I used to have bookmarked (alas, it was taken down a while back so I can't link it) showing a step-by-step photographic record of rebuilding a Martin M-36 that had gotten run over by a car (or, given its "before" state, more likely a truck).
Peter
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Thanks to all who have been following. It's been a busy week up here, but a good one. In addition to finishing up this Czech bass, I've also done a couple minor guitar setups and a fiddle re-stringing in between. Only took one night off.
So like I said, this one is a wrap... I wasn't happy with the action after last night, so I re-cut the bridge arch. It's dead-on perfect where I wanted it now, though it did cost me an extra couple hours labor. The G and D strings just weren't quite 'there' yet... these things are hard enough to play without the setup working against you. I don't like to let them out of here until they play right. First thing tomorrow morning this one gets dropped off at the music store I do repair/setup work for, plus I'm looking at another one they just took in while I'm there.
Time to call it a night... ohh... before I cut out the lights, here's the next big job - a "King" bass, by the H.N. White Co. It's got some problems, but my, oh my, look at that flamed maple!
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:)
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...what David said 8)
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Been doing a little preliminary work on the American Standard King bass, but in the meantime I knocked out a couple quick jobs for Fret Mill Music, http://fretmill.com/ (http://fretmill.com/) a local shop I do setup and repair work for.
Remind me to do a full pictorial sometime that shows you guys why I hate cutting adjustable bridges for upright basses... it's just so incredibly complicated and time consuming. I split this one up into two evenings because of the extra work, but I did get a 105% perfect setup. The bass plays like a dream now. While doing a full setup, I went ahead and marked the intervals of the first position of the neck for a 42" scale too. Simple pearl dots, inlaid flush. This is a pretty decent student-grade bass, Chinese import, Cremona branded. Way better wood, fit, and finish than their entry-level models from a few years ago.
Got a couple easy-peasy re-stringing jobs this evening, and Sunday. Gigs tomorrow. Back on the King next week.
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Remind me to do a full pictorial sometime that shows you guys why I hate cutting adjustable bridges for upright basses... it's just so incredibly complicated and time consuming.
Do you cut everything from scratch, or do you have a 'blank' that then needs to be sized and fit ?
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I have cut them from 'scratch' for a custom job here or there Bro. Elwood, but that would really eat up some shop time. I buy my blanks from one or the other of these two suppliers:
https://www.internationalviolin.com/Shop/accessories-bridges-chinrests-endpins-fingerboards-tailpieces-and-more/bridges/bass-bridges
https://www.gollihurmusic.com/category/27-BRIDGES.html
This particular one came from Gollihur as a plain non-adjustable, but I installed the adjusters myself. (hence the extra night...) ;)
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Remind me to do a full pictorial sometime that shows you guys why I hate cutting adjustable bridges for upright basses... it's just so incredibly complicated and time consuming.
Do you cut everything from scratch, or do you have a 'blank' that then needs to be sized and fit ?
I’m interested in hearing more about the adjustable bridges.
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Thanks for the illumination Greg,
...looking forward to seeing more of the King bass.
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***CLICK***
flips lights on, looks around...
Sorry guys, I haven't put much up here in a while... the King MorTone project had to be sidelined for a little while. It's been a pretty crazy Spring/Summer here in Ed's Scroll Shop, not all of it good, but a good bit of it welcome too. It's steady work though, and that's a good thing. I seem to be spending more time working on things other than basses though.
So anyway, if you look here, you can see this bass has had its neck cracked right through where a bolt had been run in from the back of the heel. (I got the bolt out already, and pitched it in the hardware bucket. Remind me to tell you all about The Bucket) There are two older repaired neck cracks above this one that are stable, so I won't mess with them, although I will be tidying up some of those fixes. It also suffers from a condition common to a lot of American Standard basses - the neck block itself is poorly fit to the ribs, and is loose. At the moment, this is actually working to my advantage. I'll secure it in place after the neck is in one piece again.
One thing I always liked about American Standard basses, the H.N. White Co. extruded all of their own parts, including these magnificent geared tuning machines. I'll take these off and clean them up. These are actually worth more than the rest of this entire instrument is... truth. (in its current state... we're going to change that status)
*bonus link: here is some more information about the H.N. White Co. http://www.hnwhite.com/hnwhitepage.htm (http://www.hnwhite.com/hnwhitepage.htm)
I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to fix this one, and finally got a good start on this old bass... y'all hang on now... it's about to get sticky... now, where is that BIG span clamp at?!
More later.
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There was a bucket in the morgue next to the furnace with a variety of metal parts.
A lot of stories in those buckets. ::)
thanks for updates!!
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Why has the heel cracked so many times?
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It's pretty hard to find an old upright bass that hasn't had a neck repair Dave... they just take so much abuse. A 6 foot violin is a cumbersome thing to move around, and I think a lot of folks just don't realize how fragile they are. There's a graphic somewhere on one of my old threads that illustrates how that injury occurs.
In the case of this one though, if I were going to CSI this break... I'd guess first the neck joint began to fail, so somebody drilled and ran a bolt in from the back of the heel. (you'd be astonished at how many I find like this) In so doing, they weakened the neck by removing wood. Next time it took a shot, it cracked right though the bolt hole. And that, so they say, was that. I'll plug the hole with wood, and pin the neck together, front-to-back, simply because that isn't much of a glue joint to support all that tension.
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The Gollihur Music email this month made a good point about transporting uprights that hadn't occurred to me before--the strain on the neck joint caused by laying the instrument on its back. They suggest supporting the neck joint with a pillow (I used a rolled up bath towel this weekend) so that the bass's weight isn't suspended between the bottom of the instrument and the peghead.
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Exactly right, Kent. (and those Gollihur boys are tough to beat, aren't they!?) I use a rolled cargo blanket for mine, and my Dad carries his old Kay up on its side, bungee'd to keep it secure. Just anything to keep the weight off the neck joint. I think folks just don't realize how much force gets exerted on that joint just by string tension, let alone getting dropped and knocked around in transit.
It's amazing more of them aren't broken really... I cringe every time somebody brings me one just laying on its back in a truck... oftentimes not even cased.
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Today's update - plugging the hole.
If you look at the pictures, you'll see this bolt-hole was counter-bored, creating a two-stage hole to plug. (yeah, someone put some thought into that for us...) Since my intention is to pin this break from front to back later, it's important this entire cavity be filled with as much wood as possible. Voids are the enemy of strength, especially in a dovetailed neck joint.
Using some CA glue (from Santa Rosa, CA!) I've dowelled them both up, with different diameters of maple and/or poplar stock, leaving a little relief on top of the larger one. Then, to make a cleaner finished job, I've inlaid a piece of maple veneer to flush everything up without having endgrain exposed. That's the key... it won't be a pretty sight anyway. Just marginally better when I go to touch-up the finish later on.
A little spit and 220-grit sanding, and I quit for the night. Still got a long way to go on this one, but I'm happy with this stage of the fix. I need to put it aside and do a strings/bridge/soundpost/setup job on another one for Fret Mill Music tonight.
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Here's what Stanley Clarke did to resolve the neck issue.
http://www.lemurmusic.com/FlyAway-Bass/products/395/ (http://www.lemurmusic.com/FlyAway-Bass/products/395/)
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This all puts me in mind of the morning that the neck of my bass simply gently came out of the body of the bass - five minutes before a gig for a bunch of college kids at a local community college in Victoria. I was devastated. I’d only had the bass for a few months - my Roth. Easy fix, as it turned out, and I see from this that it’s a common problem!
I love this thread.
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Fret Mill Music got in some more basses this week that needed setup, which usually involves bridges being recut, restringing, some minor filing on the nut slots... I can usually knock one out in a couple hours. But I had to pull off of the King to get 'em one ready for the storefront this weekend. I'll be back on it later this afternoon and tomorrow. I've been thinking about how to tighten up the neck block, which is part of how this thing got so messed up in the first place. Lateral motion of the neck = BAD. I might be using some epoxy to fill some voids here, but haven't yet solved how to get it where I need it. Sometimes you only get one shot with epoxies, so the prep has to be there, and the clamping apparatus has to work exactly as planned. I'm not there yet. It's all kinds of weird angles, no flat surfaces, so I'll have to make some cauls. In fairness to my customers here, I don't charge them for the amount of time I spend trying to figure out how to fix these things! ;D
Plus I had one of those days yesterday where ya' know... you can't hit the ground with your hat. It's better to NOT be in the shop, working on tedious stuff on those nights, so I quit early. ::)
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There was excitement in the shop today, and not necessarily the good kind... a rare, but scary occurrence; a bandsaw blade broke while I was trimming the feet of a bass bridge. If you ever want to see your music career and livelihood go by in a flash, you will never feel it quite like you do when a 1/4" wide ribbon of hardened steel, 9 - 1/2 feet long and lined with sawteeth snaps while spinning around on two 50 lb. cast iron flywheels. At the moment this happens, your hands are in close proximity. For that matter, the whole dang shop ain't but 12 × 20 feet. Thanks to a couple shop teachers, and especially my Pops teaching me well, I have come to keep in the back of my mind every time I reach for that switch to turn the saw on... this could be the day. This is only the second time ever breaking a blade for me. But all is well. I calmly cut the saw off, and quickly left the building until the flywheels stopped spinning, then came back in and put a new sawblade on my trusty old bandsaw, and finished up the job.
Good opportunity to tell a story. The bandsaw, and several more of my large tools came from a gentleman who my Dad learned to work on instruments from. His name was Jewel Thompson. He built 7 mandolins in his lifetime, and repaired an untold number of local musicians' instruments. He was the guy you called if your guitar or mandolin or fiddle needed work. My Dad was who you called if your banjo was in need. They shared space there since I was a little kid, I guess about 12 or 13 years old when I started taking an interest. Jewel died in September of 1991 after a long fight with cancer, literally carving a new top while on his deathbed for his first mandolin, because its top had failed from being carved too thin... he just couldn't leave it that way. The day before he died, he had Dad and I come empty out his shop and the tools never even cooled off. That Walker-Turner bandsaw has been a fixture in my life for almost 40 years now. I have no idea how long Jewel had it, but he told me once it had come from an old sawmill in Floyd, Virginia.
Anyway... I had a couple days off work for doctor appointments this week, so I figured I might as well spend a few hours up here makin' some fresh sawdust! This Engelhardt EC-1 turned out great after a good setup. It's going back to Fret Mill Music tomorrow morning. I've got my eye on a cute little Martin guitar down there... more on that later. Maybe. ::)
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Now, THAT'S a bandsaw. I have a little 14" Jet (Hey, who can afford a Delta?!) which is almost 20 years old. I've never broken a blade, but... sounds scary!!
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Glad no craftspeople were hurt during the incident. :)
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Allow me to echo Dave's sentiment!
My grandson taking off the tip of his left middle ringer probably made me cringe more directly - but this kind of thing is more likely to happen to me (or my guitarist/drummer/carpenter son), and so is scarier.
Peter
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Got a little welcome surprise in the shop last night...
The job is a Chinese upright, one of those first generation ones that came over before the quality hit anywhere near the current standards. I usually hate (well, that's a strong word... let's say dread) seeing these come in, and there seems to be a never-ending supply of them. The necks are awful. The wood was green when they were carved. Most I get in here tend to be a very low grade, amateurish, but serviceable... that's the keyword. I can set them up, and more importantly, get paid to do it. The fingerboards are often warped, dished, grooved, buzzing everywhere if you try to get the action anywhere close to being reasonably easy to play. So I gotta' plane them. Which usually means starting with stripping off the Black Paint of Great Shame. I use some stuff with a lot of warnings on the can to soften it up first, then scrape it off with a skinning knife. Underneath, I expect to find a piece of slab-cut white wood... I've seen maple, poplar, and a couple species of some of the ugliest stuff in the world I couldn't identify. Didn't matter under the paint, of course.
This one was different... it looks a little bit like mahogany, or walnut but doesn't smell, or work up like either one. I wet it with a little acetone in the 3rd picture so you can see the color.
Anybody got a guess?
*the best news is, my customer is okay with me just finishing it out in natural, so I don't have to mask it up and shoot 5 coats of black enamel after I get done getting the geometry right! NICE! I'll have show you all a before/after on this one.
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Is it Wenge' maybe? Here it is, clean and dry, ready for oil finish.
Whatever it is, it's pretty stuff, and very straight-grained. Lots of open pores. If I didn't know better I would swear it was walnut, but I know what walnut smells and works like... this ain't it. I don't know what this is.
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3rd pic in that previous post that grain reminds me an awful lot of the Wenge that was on Warwick
FYI: We chatted offline about this a month or so ago...ended up ordering an Upton Standard Laminate!
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3rd pic in that previous post that grain reminds me an awful lot of the Wenge that was on Warwick
FYI: We chatted offline about this a month or so ago...ended up ordering an Upton Standard Laminate!
Excellent choice! I guess it must be working out for you then. Post up some pics or other media when you can: http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=22703.0.
Upton Bass, for those who haven't heard of them, runs a topnotch bass shop in New England... (Mystic, Connecticut) sales, service, repair, the real deal. https://uptonbass.com/
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3rd pic in that previous post that grain reminds me an awful lot of the Wenge that was on Warwick
FYI: We chatted offline about this a month or so ago...ended up ordering an Upton Standard Laminate!
Excellent choice! I guess it must be working out for you then. Post up some pics or other media when you can: http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=22703.0.
Upton Bass, for those who haven't heard of them, runs a topnotch bass shop in New England... (Mystic, Connecticut) sales, service, repair, the real deal. https://uptonbass.com/
Its more or less working out...it's a long, slow process to make progress at this point due to time limitations, and the fact that is a rental bass (SB80) that is not setup well at all and has no adjusters either, but Im committed to making as much progress as I can. Really its so poorly setup that I can only practice on it for 30 or so minutes at a time before I have to take a break.
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I finished this one up last night... the mystery wood fingerboard (wenge', or whatever it is) polished up very nice. I rubbed in two coats of finishing wax to seal the pores, and buffed it out. Very happy with the results. Even happier I didn't have break out the rattle-can.
Other than leveling the fingerboard, the biggest job here was reshaping the neck. Like I was saying up-thread, these things were still green when they were cut out, and many of them warped badly as they cured. And they are huge, clubby, clunky necks, sometimes hard to even get your hand around. Now that they've hopefully done all the twisting and pulling that they're going to, no reason not to take a rasp and file to them. This is my favorite part! Nothing fancy about it, just keep shaving and cutting off wood until it feels like a bass neck should - simple. Then smooth out file marks with (progressively;) coarse-grit sandpaper, emory cloth strips, fine-grit sandpaper, and finally ultra-fine grit, followed by steel wool. I like to 'raise the grain' several times with a dampened paper towel. This will fuzz up the wood again, and then you get one more good buffing. The end result is a very smooth surface. (I do this on the fingerboard surface too... actually, sometimes I wet-sand ebony or rosewood with 1200-grit) I use the same Minwax product on the bare wood here as I use on the fingerboards.
One thing you might catch - typical of these basses, this one had a pretty low grade of maple for the neck. Down close to the body, it had a knothole in it. While I was working the neck down, I filled the hole with some CA glue and sawdust filings. Once rubbed out, this neck actually has some nice figure to it, which you can really see 'pop' after having been oil-treated. It plays lightning-fast now, and with a new set of D'Addario Zyex strings installed and the bridge and soundpost recut, nut slots filed, it's ready to go.
Total time, 6 hours. Strings were $150. The bass itself, was a $600 Craigslist find. They'll have about $1200 in it now, which isn't too bad for a decent playing, structurally solid upright.
Now... back to work on the King MorTone!
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I gotta' say...you do some really nice work, Greg!
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That looks very nice. The owner should be really pleased with the results.
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I gotta' say...you do some really nice work, Greg!
Seriously nice.
I would love to be a fly on the wall and watch you do your magic.
The neck reshaping sounds easy but can tell that you are at a Craftsman level.
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That fingerboard does look nice!
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Lots of progress made on the King bass this week... I might even be ready to string it up in a couple days, so it'll seem like I've been sandbagging you guys, but I've just been too busy to post daily updates. I did snap a few pictures of the high points along the way though. I worked in the shop every night this week, only pulling off this project long enough to do a couple custom pickguards for these new Eastman guitars Fret Mill Music got in.
This week's work has mostly involved glueing up both the neck, and tail blocks. Both had failed on this one, an especially common problem for some reason on American Standard bassses. For a litttle background, basses, (and the smaller viols) have spruce or willow blocks at the dovetail neck joint and down where the endpin or in the case of an upright bass, the footrest is set. It's critical they not be broken, cracked, or loose in the slightest degree. This tailblock was just coming unglued. The neckblock is another story. We'll get to that.
I have found a lot of strange things in basses... odd hardware, money, fortune cookie proverbs, even an 8-track cassette of The Eagles. Not much surprises me anymore. But I will admit to being amused by this one. Somebody repurposed a drumstick for a footrest! I was working around the tailblock setting up to reglue it, and I was going to tap the footrest/endpin out anyway... it was a big snarled-up mess of electrical tape and rubber I was going to have to deal with later anyway, but my eyes kept thinking that shape was odd... then I tapped it out of there. Yep... there ya' go. File that one away!
Anyway, nothing special or complicated here... just work in some Elmers Titebond where it's come loose, and use cam clamps with two flat cauls, squeeze until glue comes back out. That block will be good for another 80 years. (did I tell you all, this King dates to 1938 production year?) Serial number 949 is handwritten and stamped inside. *look right under the word "Ohio" for the inked stamp on the label... it's very faded, but right there.
Next up, the neck block. It was a disaster, but I feel pretty good about the fix.
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That stick looks pretty old. I'm picturing a happy bassist at a gig and a drummer looking for that other stick ;D
it would cool to make string doorbell with it,
or maybe pair it with a little drum.
Well done. Looking forward to the next episode.
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Bonus Coffee-break post... here's one of the two Eastman guitars I made a faux-tortoise pickguard for this week. For whatever reason, Eastman doesn't ship this upper-end line of guitars with pickguards. I had some of this older 'Tortoloid' stuff squirreled away that Ken thought looked kinda' nice on these Adirondack spruce tops. (it looks terrible until you peel the blue backed adhesive off! Green Tortoise?!) It takes me about an hour to shape one, cut the inside radius to fit the rosette, and then bevel the edge for a finished look.
This is the E-60 M, kind of a cross between a Martin J-M body and an OM. The other one I did was for the matching Dreadnought.
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Agreed, the drumstick is actually a pretty cool McGyver fix. 8)
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Part Two: glueing up the neck block... and not that it matters, but chronologically, this was all happening at about the same time as the tailblock post from yesterday.
This was one of those fixes that I really didn't know how it was going to go. I had to improvise on the fly, so apologies for the lack of detail. You have to work pretty fast with epoxy, and so I didn't have time to stop for a lot of pictures, but I did get before/after shots.
The short of it is this; in most cases, the neck of a bass is secured to the body by a tapered dovetail joint in this spruce block that's glued to the ribs (sides) right at the very top of the body. In this case, the neck is still glued into the block, but the block (like the tailblock) has come loose from the sides, allowing the neck joint to yaw and pitch, breaking out the layers of laminate underneath. (I suspect that this happened at the same time as one of the three broken necks this old bass has suffered) As you can see, there's quite a void here to fill, and not an easy way to clamp without any kind of press. To fill this up, I used slow-set (20-min) epoxy mixed with a scoop of the fine dust from the belt sander as a binder, and poured it into the seam, guiding the emulsion where it needed to go with a discarded guitar string end. (I think it was a light gauge E .052) Then, using some high-impact packing foam and deep-jaw cam clamp, I was able to apply some pressure with an improvised caul. Not much squeeze-out here, I just want to hold stuff tight for a half-hour or so for the epoxy to set. (this is about as seat-of-the-pants as it gets!) I just used a squeeze of some regular old Titebond to secure the block itself back to the rib. Thank goodness for the return to conventionality.
Finally, the clamps came off, and after the clean-up, I feel pretty confident this neck block will hold. I spent yesterday glueing up a few loose laminations around the edges of the top, and I'll be glueing the top back on the King bass this afternoon. We're getting closer to being back in one piece on this one!
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Fascinating. I really enjoy reading, and even better, seeing all this work, although I can't imagine doing it myself. (Oh, yeah! That must be the clamp!). Thanks for enlightening me a bit!
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Agreed. Really enjoying this... thanks for sharing.
Is there an inlay on the finger board?
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Is there an inlay on the finger board?
Not yet, but there will be... sort of. ;)
[teaser]
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Hmmm. Shoulder/ lag bolt in there?
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You guessed it, Paul. This poor old bass had a hardware store in it. I've already doweled up the hole, and filled with epoxy and rosewood filler dust, but to make a more presentable repair, I'll be inlaying a rosewood patch. I have some scraps that are an exact color match... I just need to pick out a piece that approximates the grain around the plug as closely as possible. Of course everything will be flushed up too. It'll be seen, but not noticed, or at least, that's the goal. I'm excited about the challenge... haven't done any wood-on-wood inlay work in a while. ::)
Here's the current status in progression.
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Your scrap piece is a great match...that's gonna look fine,
thx for the pics.
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It'll be a little bit until the next installment, but happy to report the biggest part of this old bass is back together... there are still several issues to be addressed before time for re-stringing, it's well on the way to a full recovery and return to duty.
I spent a couple hours off and on yesterday, cleaning up glue. The neckblock turned out to be a nice, solid fix. I sanded and dusted out the rest of the inside of the body, and fixed a couple more loose layers of laminate, then prepped the top to go back on, then finally... it was time for the clamps. You really have to have everything laying exactly in place before starting this job. Once you apply the glue, get busy!
Back again soon with some of the aforementioned detail work... got a neurology appointment tomorrow morning, bloodwork again Wednesday, then I gotta' get on a couple jobs for Fret Mill Music. Plus there's the small matter of a [new guitar for me] at hand, but the King Mor-Tone is looking good for a test-drive maybe next week. :)
Y'all come back now, ya' hear? ;D
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[new guitar for me]
Oh? Do tell!
And a wizardly job on that doghouse, my friend.
Peter
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:)
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[new guitar for me]
Oh? Do tell!
Just the sweetest little 'ol Martin dubble-ohh you ever seen or heard about, Coz. ;D
Nah... for a while now, I've had eyes out for a small guitar I could leave out in the house, (anticipating spending a lot of time here again later this year, adjusting to some more Titanium hardware) I really have been looking for a Martin Dreadnought Junior, in sunburst finish, but specifically one without the electronics, and preferably an earlier version that had the slightly deeper body. Missed a couple. Passed on a couple. Then the other day I went in the store to pick up a bass for a setup job, and this little guitar had just come in on a trade, needing some minor work and a good setup. I'm a total washout for a Martin 12-fret 00, especially when they're mahogany and spruce. The work needed was well within my capabilities, so I didn't have to think real hard about that deal. (binding was popped loose in a couple places, a couple dings, needed a good setup)
She's a 2016 00-17S in "Black Smoke" finish, solid mahogany sides and back, sitka spruce top, scalloped braces, rosewood fingerboard and bridge. I think her name is Sweet Peggy-O. Make that OO.
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I approve whole-heartedly!
Peter (Who will resist the urge to pick the fly poop from the pepper & point out that the body size is numeric; a 00, not an OO. OK, so I didn't resist too hard....... ;D )
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Nice job with the fingerboard inlay!
I can see where the clamping of the top could create a bit of anxiety. I suppose due to every bass being a bit different with bout radii's, top/ back protrusion/ overhang and what not that it isn't practical to have an 'aligment flange' on those clamping blocks. Unless... there was a way to make adjustable alignment blocks that fit on to the clamps themselves which would allow for a pre-set of the top prior to adding glue. ???
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Sharp eye, Paul. Yep, my clamps are kind of a universal fit for this job but will work on just about any bass from 1/2 all the way to 4/4 size. I could actually improve upon the design some... the cork-lining on the cauls could be thicker for one, but it's really mostly about spreading the clamp pressure out evenly all the way around the edge, and putting maximum pressure at the corners and blocks with the cam clamps. Getting the top aligned correctly isn't as hard as it looks, but it is a very critical step. This bass had a finishing nail driven at both the neckblock and the tailblock, so it was very easy to put right back. (you can probably see this in some of the earlier pictures) Believe it or not, the missing pieces of veneer that stay on the body (or come off with the top sometimes) also help get it back in place.
The first picture here also reveals the next challenge. (and now for my next trick...!) See how the very top edge is 'squared-off' instead of notched out to fit around the neck joint? Okay well, it didn't come thataway... the plywood around the neck joint had gotten broken out in the many mishaps along the way, and I squared it off in order to fix it later. Other than the gap looking bad, it's also a structural problem. I have to fabricate a new piece to fit exactly, sorta' like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. It'll be a custom-fit piece, and will have to be touched up to match the finish around this area too. I'll get some illustrations of that as we go.
After a couple evenings out of the shop, I'm back at it tonight.
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Part 1 - Button and Neck Joint clean-up
This whole neck-to-body joint was an ugly mess that had been fixed and broken and fixed again several times before. I've gotten it back to structurally solid, but now it's time to try and patch in some missing plywood. All these pieces have to be hand-fit, so this part is a bit time-consuming and tedious.
First, let's put on some music... I just got a new stash from May, 1977. It helps keep things moving on long days up here. Keeps things chill. 8)
Starting with the back... the 'button' is hiding another dowel repair. There was another chunk of the back missing I guess from having been removed once before. Nothing too complicated here... just pieced-together some more birch plywood and glued the salvaged button back on. Dressed up the edges with a file and followed with sandpaper. This will all get touched-up later, and while it won't ever look great, again, it's a very solid repair. Note that nothing here looks symmetrical. Yeah... it's not. Not even a little bit. I'll point out more startling asymmetry later.
*I happened to notice the fingerboard was popped loose up near the nut, and since I'll be working on leveling it up soon anyway, figured I might as well work a little glue under it and clamp it up for the night.
Last picture shows the gap between the end of the top and the neck joint that needs to be fixed. In the last post I pictured it being cut off and flushed up. Y'all think about that a while... I'll be back in a few for Part 2. ;)
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Part 2... filling the gap.
Pictures will do most of the 'splainin' here... I wanted to do this all in one piece, and I probably could have but it just wasn't worth the effort it would have taken. Plus, given some thought, there was an advantage to making separate parts.
Like I said before, there is nothing mirror-image to work with on this old bass, and just making these pieces took a couple hours by the time they were fit, glued in, and trimmed off to something close to ready for finishing. I'm pretty happy with the results. Incidentally, a little extra here... I added an extra layer of spruce to the birch plywood pieces... not only for the extra thickness, but to match the top, which has a outer laminate of spruce. It'll make a little better finished job. Just a little bonus-round. You can see it if you zoom in close.
Here's why the 3 separate pieces... no matter how empty a gesture it might seem at this point, I glued in the small center piece with hide glue just in case someone might ever want to take the neck out of this bass the proper way. If that day comes, they can easily gain access to the dovetail joint by popping out that one piece. So, to whosoever shall be the next poor soul to work on this one... you're welcome! I did that just for you.
Here's the progress in order:
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Couple more pics to illustrate some of that wacky symmetry I've been going on about...
As 'off' as everything looks, the neck is actually aligned pretty straight in the body. I can't really take any credit or blame for that, so I'm just going to be thankful that the bridge is going to sit somewhat where it needs to on the top. Cosmic Symmetry; gifted.
Now the rest of it... that's all me, and glue. Ordered strings and a bridge for it this morning, and patched the hole in the rosewood fingerboard today. That'll be the next post. ;)
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:)
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Shows that you are a true craftsman that you made future repairs easier, I try to do the same with my jewellery...I should try to document the process on my next piece, could be fun.
Are you steaming old glue apart? I had a friend who was a guitar builder/repair guy taught me that vinegar will loosen up hide glue and regular wood glue; it takes longer but not as scary as pressurized stem into a joint...and you do have to let the vinegar dry outta the wood before finishing the repair...Tony.
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Gregory, that is Artisan Craftsmanship level repair work!
A few posts back where you glued the fingerboard near the nut, it looks like the peg head has a ‘layer’ removed from it... what is going on there?
Really appreciate this thread!
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A few posts back where you glued the fingerboard near the nut, it looks like the peg head has a ‘layer’ removed from it... what is going on there?
I think you may be seeing the finish crackling and coming off in chips, Paul... here's a picture of the whole pegbox. I really don't know what to do about that one. On one hand, the pegbox is the only part of this bass that isn't, and hasn't ever been broken. The original H.N. White tuning machines cover up what little bit of the finish is left. It isn't hurting anything, and the rest of the bass doesn't look great either, so I could leave it as-is. Since I have to mix up something to put on the neck's heel to touch-up around all those ugly repairs, there's a good argument for refinishing the entire neck. I may toss that idea at my customer. I dunno... I could lean either way... whatchall think?
These tuners will clean up nice! H.N. White made these in-house rather than outsource back in the day. Finding an intact set for an American Standard bass today is akin to the search for hens teeth.
Lori at International Violin Co. https://www.internationalviolin.com/ got me strings and a bridge in one day! (actually, at $36.50 these bridges were such a good deal, I bought a couple.) Can't say enough good stuff about the Kirr family that runs IVC. Been dealing with them for years.
The fingerboard repair is done, but the post on it is not... maybe later this afternoon... depends on how crazy things are at Shawshank today. (real job looks and feels remarkably like the prison from the movie) ::)
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Took a little break from the shop tonight to actually play some bass instead of working on them... I really needed to study and practice for a gig coming up this weekend, a wedding and reception with some requests I had to learn. Plus, I just needed to play a while... reason enough! I'm at a good place to take a break on the King bass again now... from here on in it's basically a matter of how far do I go with making it pretty. The structural repairs are done, and I'm about ready to restring it. There are still a couple key things to address, but we'll get to them.
As promised, here is the repair to that carriage bolt hole down through the fingerboard. I may still have some colorizing to do, but after the whole fingerboard has been dressed and oiled, this repair will be almost unnoticed. The way it is situated right between the D and A strings, and way down there near the body, darkened in a bit... shoot. I'm good with it.
The pictures are in chronological order, beginning with the plugged hole frome earlier. I picked out a piece of scrap rosewood that approximated the color and grain pattern, then shaped it to a small rectangle with chamfered corners. (simply because this is a fairly easy shape to rout out, and the straight lines easily 'disappear') Next, rout the pocket, leaving some relief. (so the inlay sticks up just a little bit). Mix up some epoxy and rosewood colored filler, then pop the inlay in place. It's 5-minute epoxy resin/hardener mixture, but I like to let this cure overnight before filing it off flush. After it's had time to completely set, that stuff carves just like wood. If it's still rubbery, it'll roll up and pull out of the rout while you're working it. Save yourself the aggravation and sadness... stand back and admire your work. Or just quit for the night. :)
*Hey y'all, check out that tiny little machined aluminum router base on my Dremel tool... courtesy of Stewart-MacDonald Guitar Shop Supply.
https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Precision_Router_Base.html (https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Precision_Router_Base.html)
See you all back here in a couple... I've got another setup job on a Chinese upright for Fret Mill Music to do tomorrow night, and gigs this weekend.
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My posts have refused to appear for a couple days now, so a fine way to run a test would be to say "Well, done, sir!"
Peter
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Holy crackled finish Batman! :o
Nice job on the fingerboard. 8)
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Here's a pretty cool thing I dropped off yesterday evening at Fret Mill Music... the store recently got a good deal on a few basses that just needed a good setup to be more easily saleable. I've only ever seen cutaway uprights in pictures... never worked on one, at least not that I can remember.
This one got its bridge and soundpost both recut, and I filed the nut slots. Just very basic setup. Makes a world of difference in playability though. These are fairly inexpensive, student-grade basses, but with a little work they can play and sound pretty good. (the store retails these at $895 - $1195 depending on the model and appointments and/or bag)
*this soundpost made me smile a little... must have been a Friday afternoon or a Monday morning. ::)
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Why are they called "student-grade"?
And when you played it, did you find the cutaway to be of any benefit?
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Essentially Dave, in this case student-grade = entry-level. I have a hard time referring to anything costing more than a certain amount as "cheap", but these are fairly inexpensive uprights. I was using polite terms. ;)
I could definitely see the benefit of the cutaway for access to the upper register, but I can also see the potential for a structural failure... it wouldn't take much of a side-shot to the neck to break the block.
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Getting closer on the King bass... last night's shop time was (mostly) spent leveling and dressing up the fingerboard.
First, I had to remove a layer of varnish or maybe polyurethane from the board... a shop rag with some lacquer thinner took care of that. Then, progressively using a long sanding beam with different grits of sandpaper on each surface, followed by a radiused sanding block, the playing surface of the rosewood board gets trued up. I'll then follow up with an electric sander with some 330-grit non-loading paper, and my small orbital sander with ultra-fine grit. (again, you DON'T want to breathe this stuff - wear a mask!) We're just getting it to a dull sheen here, so just a couple minutes with the sanders to get the scratches out.
This next step is another one of those probably totally unnecessary things that I just do because... I like to wet-sand ebony and rosewood. It raises the grain ever so slightly, and keeps the dust down too. Plus you get an incredibly smooth surface. After that, I burnish the whole board with some 0000 steel wool and rubbed in some lemon oil. I'm still not completely finished with this one, but it's inching closer to making music again.
Before I cut the lights out, y'all check out this next project they gave me at Fret Mill Music... it's the original hardshell case for this guitar: http://fretmill.com/product/epiphone-broadway-1937/ (http://fretmill.com/product/epiphone-broadway-1937/) ...and as you can see, it won't hold that beautiful old guitar anymore. It was too cool to just pitch, so they asked me to take a look... I think I can fix it!
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Man, that orange power sander looks like it's been around awhile!! Quick question: Am I seeing things, or does that neck have a definite NON-curvature on the E string side?
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Man, that orange power sander looks like it's been around awhile!! Quick question: Am I seeing things, or does that neck have a definite NON-curvature on the E string side?
Yep, that's been a good one Growly... that old thing is tough as nails. Wish I could say the same thing for orbital sanders... that turquoise-colored 'Mouse' sander on the corner of the workbench has just about had it now... sometimes I have to give it a good thump to get it to run. (that can't be good)
Good eye, my friend. You have identified the E bevel, on a cello a C bevel, or more correctly, the Romberg bevel. It was invented by (and named for) Bernhard Heinrich Romberg (November 13, 1767 – August 13, 1841), a German composer and cellist. The bevel gives more clearance for that string to travel. With newer string technology, it's not really necessary, so a lot of builders have phased it out. Some players prefer it, some don't; it's probably just a matter of what you're used to. I kinda' like it on my bass and cello.
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As always, your work is inspirational, Greg.
And I must say, I like current Epiphones a lot. I love Kalamazoo-built Epiphones. A pre-Gibson Epiphone? Which one of my sons will they take for it?
Peter
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Nice!
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Thanks for the audience fellas. :)
Have to agree Coz, those New York Epiphones are classy instruments. Every now and then they get some cool stuff in down there. It's dangerous having store credit sometimes!
Speaking of Epiphones... in my backlog of big projects-in-waiting is a 3/4-size B-3 model bass from the New York days. It's #749, and a pretty rare survivor today, so well worth fixing. It's got a badly broken neck that has had several attempted repairs, some of which held, some did not. I think this neck can be saved, but if not, I just happen to have the proverbial "needle in the haystack"; a New Old Stock replacement neck my Pops found years ago at a sale. It's been hanging up in a dusty corner of our shop for ages, so if bad comes to worse, we'll just fit this old bass with the correct replacement part. I may jump on this project this Fall. Got an old Kay with a collapsed top that needs to go next, but here's a sneak peek.
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Got in a full day in the shop today, and since the humidity was extremely low for the first time in weeks, it was a perfect time to load up the airbrush and fry to cover up some of these ugly old repairs. Sorry I didn't have time to stop and take more, step-by-step shots, but if you go back upthread and look, you can see the starting point was not a pretty sight. This was never going to be an invisible touch-up, or even close... just trying to make this neck look somewhat presentable again.
With the headstock stripped, (there you go, Paul!) there was no color to match, so I went with a mahogany/cordovan dye... chased it to the edges, darkened where I could, then shot a couple wash coats of clear to seal it. I'll pull the tape off tomorrow night and buff it out to a dull sheen. I still have to finish-sand, then oil-treat the 'playing' surface of the neck so it plays slick and fast. Probably tomorrow night.
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;D
Looks great!
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Nice work Greg!
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The tuning machines cleaned up nice. Also trimmed and glued the tailgut nut back in place... nothing tricky here, just a couple little details. I did use hide glue on the gut-nut, since that's something one may need to remove again later. Rather than work the neck down, I quit early last night, in favor of playing bass! (seriously, I needed to practice) I figure letting that finish cure another 24 hours is probably best anyway. 8)
We're getting closer! I need to call this guy and see how he'd like his bass set up. I don't want get him all excited prematurely though. Many a slip, betwixt something and something, y'know...
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Amazing transformation taking place with this instrument.
The owner is going to think you had a shop disaster and replaced his bass with a completely new one!
It must really feel good when you do a complete restoration of an instrument.
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This one has been a big job Paul, bigger than usual. And that's the reason I put it on the backburner for so long... just because there's so much 'bench time' involved. To keep the trains (regular work) running on time, I can't tie up the shop that long, so I have to plan blocks of time for these big overhauls. And I can't possibly charge by the hour or they simply wouldn't get fixed. I'll end up just charging a rounded-off number for this one when I'm done. (I did tell the guy upfront he could just buy a new bass for what he'd have in this job...) Still no way in the world I'll come out with the amount of time I have put into fixing this bass, but like I was telling someone the other day, a hopeless case like this is where you sometimes learn where your limits are. There is value in that knowledge too. Part of me wanted to see if I could actually fix it. And the other part of me just wants to get it done and get paid, and get on to the next one. I'm happy it's turning out well. After last night, it's really taking shape.
Stay tuned. ;)
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This one has been a big job Paul, bigger than usual. And that's the reason I put it on the backburner for so long... just because there's so much 'bench time' involved. To keep the trains (regular work) running on time, I can't tie up the shop that long, so I have to plan blocks of time for these big overhauls. And I can't possibly charge by the hour or they simply wouldn't get fixed. I'll end up just charging a rounded-off number for this one when I'm done. (I did tell the guy upfront he could just buy a new bass for what he'd have in this job...) Still no way in the world I'll come out with the amount of time I have put into fixing this bass, but like I was telling someone the other day, a hopeless case like this is where you sometimes learn where your limits are. There is value in that knowledge too. Part of me wanted to see if I could actually fix it. And the other part of me just wants to get it done and get paid, and get on to the next one. I'm happy it's turning out well. After last night, it's really taking shape.
Stay tuned. ;)
If it hadn't been taken down, this is where I'd post a link to a photo journal I used to have bookmarked of a rebuild of a Martin M-36 that had been run over by a car; in the immortal words of Arlo Guthrie, "they wasn't leavin' no part untouched!"
Peter
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Inching closer to restringing, this step was necessarily a little bit trickier than usual. Ordinarily I'd be trimming finish back to a cut line, and sanding down to bare wood, but in this case, the finish at each end of the neck was new and fresh, leaving a ridge at the edge where tape was. The neck's finish (what little there was) had to be removed from between these two points, and the badly roughed-up maple neck needed to be smoothed out while keeping the profile uniform. You have to be very careful about not sanding 'dishes' or 'dimples', or accidentally whittling a neck too thin or slim when doing this. My Pops always says it's a lot easier taking wood off than it is putting it back. (for the record, you can put it back, but it's very hard to do!)
I took a few action shots again with the phone in the windowsill... what's happening progressively- you'll see the starting point with the tape pulled, then where I tape the new finish up to work back to it with the abrasives, then I peel all the tape and buff the whole thing with 0000 steel wool, rubbing off that little ridge of new finish. After raising the grain a couple times with a damp towel, and de-fuzzing, it's time for the finishing wax. I use this MinWax product on bare wood. Application is simple; just rub it in crossgrain in circles, wait 10 minutes for it to cure hazy-looking, then buff it off.
I was just about to put those shiny tuning machines back on when I realized the inside of the pegbox could really use 5 minutes of attention. I'll brush in a fresh coat of black enamel before mounting them. This is a very small detail that makes absolutely no difference mechanically, but makes a huge difference aesthetically. That black background with the brass rollers and a new set of strings is going to make me smile.
I'm taking a couple nights off, (got to pull shifts at work this weekend) then got a 1/4-size bass coming in from Fret Mill Music for setup. I'll be back on the King next week. Probably finish up next weekend.
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Nice work! :)
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Just a little show-n-tell tonight.
This is a banjo (well, parts of a banjo) Dad and I built a few years ago. Our serial numbering system works like Alembic's old one did; the year is first, the sequence number is second. Hence #11-27 was whittled out and wrought together in 2011, and was our 27th effort.
The resonator is burled walnut, inlaid with maple, and mother of pearl accents. I also inlaid pieces around the walls which are a 13 - 5/8" diameter bend. The neck is a locally harvested board of black walnut we made several necks from over the years. The reverse of the headstock is inlaid with wood too... I was tasked to do something kinda' like a Style 5 Gibson for the order. (Google-image it) I remember it was tricky, but I must not have planned to ever repeat it because there are absolutely no drawings of this pattern in my files. Totally out of character for me... I keep everything. This was not my first wood-into-wood inlay, but it was definitely one of the first. I cut out the four-point stars for the fingerboard inlays, and our trademark honeybee logo out of pearl, but Dad had his buddies at First Quality Music Supply (now basically defunct) cut the script by laser. This is an oil finish, by the way.
Anyway... enjoy a look at my Ol' Man's workbench tonight... he took this one in for some TLC. I think it's a good example of what we could do together back then. I'm up to my hindparts in work for the store right now because my real job has been kinda' heavy lately. But so help me, that King bass is checking out this week. ;D
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Very nice! Thanks for sharing. :)
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As I have mentioned to you before Greg - I really need to figure who to rob to order a Honey Tone banjitar!
Peter
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I hope after Pops retires later this year we can build some more together, Coz... we've worked on a couple side-projects, but nothing to put our name to. There are parts enough in the shop now to build about a half-dozen more Honeytone banjos, two of which I had planned for 14" cello-banjos, a 4-string and a 5-string. It would be easy enough to adapt the plans of a CB to a 6-string GB... something to think about. :)
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So, hit me up on e-mail & let me know a ballpark figure, so I can figure out if it's at all feasible, will you please?
Peter
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Gotcha'. ;)
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One more small step... or two.
Posted the other day, the inside of the pegbox made me sad. That situation has been improved upon with some black enamel, and it was time to remount the tuners. Love how the brass rollers show up against the black background. It'll be even better when strings with the bright multi-colored silks get wound on them.
I polished up the original rosewood string-nut, and glued it back in place, and was about to mount the endpin/footrest/tailpiece assembly when I remembered there are a couple clean-up issues yet to be addressed down there. Remember that drumstick we found? This improvised tailgut made me smile. Most of the time, I find a simple twisted coathanger wire, but I have found leather boot laces, and a few other things that would surprise you. (I know they surprised me) Anyway, someone put some thought into this threaded rod, but missed the execution... it wasn't going to break in a million years, but I can do something a little nicer, and adjust for the afterlength at the same time.
Gotta' make a hardware store run today. Pictures from last night's work...
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Man, that pegbox looks downright professional!!
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<anticipation>
:D
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More progress today. It occurs to me I get more work done in the shop when I don't have to report in at the real job... funny how that works out! And the coffee is waaay better. So is the music. The general atmosphere is lighter, come to think of it. ::)
Today's project was the wire hanger that holds the tailpiece. On finer upright basses, this is called a tailgut, and is meant to be adjustable for what is called the strings' afterlength. Now this is going to sound a little bit crazy, but the little piece of string that stretches from the bridge witness points, back to the tailpiece also resonates, and can improve or impede the sound of a particular instrument. Or it can make absolutely no difference at all to people ears. The formula for setting this distance is to start at 1/6th of the scale length, as this is will produce a note two octaves and a fourth above the open string's pitch. On most basses, the scale ends up being something around 42", so the afterlength should be about 7". Yeah... I swear y'all, it's a real thing, but it's not the end of the world if you miss it by a whopping whatever on a plywood bass with a wire hanger. I went to school for a while just to make sure it wasn't bull-squeeze. I do at least make a good-faith effort at getting the proportions somewhat close to right, but they lost me at two octaves and a fourth. Not. In. My. Shop.
Once again The King foiled me... when I was fitting the new wire hanger to the old tailpiece, I could see more sadness... the rosewood had busted out long ago. That's why someone had rigged this crude contraption. I couldn't let that go... my Dad says it's easier to take wood out than it is to put it back, but it can be done. Yep... (Thanks Pop!) Probably no one will ever even see this repair, and likely wouldn't recognize it if they did, but I felt like it was worth doing. They might just wonder why in the world somebody went to all that trouble, then drilled all the way through a tailpiece. Let 'em wonder... I'll be proud of that fix for a while. So anyway, nothing more complicated to making a wire hanger than threading the brass rod with a die, and bending it into the shape necessary for the job. Pliers, vise, fret hammer, etc.
After it was done though, the roughed-up footrest plug was making me sad... I had to work on that too. I cleaned it up, shot a couple coats of black enamel over, then I quit for the day.
Pictures are in chronological order.
*I have 1/4-size bass in here right now that is cute as a button! Pics later. (easy-peasy setup job)
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It does indeed look better. :)
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Gee I love getting your take on things. Every entry is like a glimpse inside of Gregory’s head! :o
Setting the strings after-length makes a lot of sense and could/ should bring out the best resonance of the instrument.
[Preface] The below statements/ questions are “what would be ideal” without money or time restraints. I believe you mentioned earlier that the time and resources put into this King far exceeds the agreed upon payment by it’s owner. That being said, your craftsmanship is commendable. 8)
So 42” scale length is the norm for a 3/4 size upright? And 1/6th of that length is 6.67”.
The nut starting measuring point is obviously at the fingerboard edge and the tail piece measuring point would be the point where the string breaks across it (towards the bridge side). But pray tell, where on the bridge would you measure? The middle of the bridge or the opposing side of the bridge as referenced to nut and/ or tailpiece?
Wouldn’t it be desirable to use something more flexible than a coat hanger for the tailgut? Let’s say a guy has old electric bass strings laying around and used one of those with crimpable ferrules to set the final length... crazy?
Paul (who had a very long week paying meticulous attention to detail in the machine shop and now transferring his anal retentive OCD to a fantasy about his Knilling Bucharest upright)
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See... I knew that afterlength business was going to get me in trouble. ;D
Technically, Paul, you're measuring the oscillating sections of string on either side of the bridge, the most critical one being between the nut and bridge. Setting the afterlength, -to me at least- is an approximation based on what I see and hear. Violins are all about proportions, too much this, too little that, produces this response, diminishes that response, and so on. It matters a good deal more on a finer instrument. Most of the projects that come my way, I look at it as one of; get it close to where it belongs, listen for and wolfs or dead spots and adjust as necessary, very much like I would with setting a soundpost. Same formula, different operation.
*FWIW, I have found that the weight of the tailpiece has more influence on overall resonance than the string afterlength does. A heavy tailpiece tends to adsorb bass response.
If you ever get interested enough, Chuck Traeger's book is the definitive guide on upright bass repair and setup... put it on your Birthday or Christmas Wish list. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1892210061/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1892210061
Some of craziness you see me post in here you won't find in there, but my shop as I've said before is the last resort for a lot of these basses. This King... it needed a new neck, that was the bottom line, and it wasn't worth a new neck. If it were in good condition, a 1940's American Standard upright might be worth a couple thousand dollars. This one was almost a total loss... I may have saved it, but I'm a hobbyist and I have time to fool with it between other work.
To answer Part 2, yes, your idea has been tried and proven. (although using braided wire rather than a bass string) Here is the full selection of tailpiece adjusters at Gollihur: https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2037-TAILPIECE_CABLES_FOR_UPRIGHT_BASS_SELECTION.html
Personally, I don't like the commercially available Wittner type adjusters... had too many of them strip. They stretch for days. The braided wire ones just look kinda' crude to me. Mine are modeled after the ones Kay used... I just like brass better than steel rod stock. I can buy everything needed on the hardware aisle at the local Ace Hardware. ;)
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I have a new name for ya'! "EdwardofHuncote - the Master of Disaster!"
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"I may have saved it, but I'm a hobbyist."
You are far too modest my man. Your postings and the creativity and ingenuity you use to bring instruments back from the dead are the highlight of the site for me. Given what you have done to make instruments playable again I'd suggest a positive take on "Dr. Frankenstein" might be a better way to describe the work you do to resurrect uprights.
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Ha! Well fellas, I'll go with Frankenstein or Master of (many) Disaster(s), and wear it proud. I like having a place to keep a journal of some memorable projects, and share a story or two.
I did get another piece of The King done this weekend, (will update that saga later) but had to pull off of it to do this cute little 1/4-sized Engelhardt bass. Setup work on upright basses is my bread-and-butter... it comes in the store weekly and my shop all the time. I can do one of these jobs in about 2 hours or less, start-to-finish, if there are no complications or distractions. This one was faster because I only had to replace a badly warped bridge. Ordinarily, I'd be cutting a new soundpost and filing nut slots, and restringing too, another half-hour, forty-five minutes worth.
The pictures are in chronological order, and kinda' tell the story, but;
Step 1. Mark and cut the feet and the arc on the bandsaw. This was much easier than usual, again, because I had the old bridge to use as a template. Note that I always save these pieces for shims to be used later if necessary.
Step 2. Sandpaper, scratchy side up on the top where the bridge will be. I mark the underside of the feet with pencil graphite and scrub until the feet are evenly fit to the contour of the top. (this is one of my favorite jobs!) Note how the bridge stands perfectly vertical, with a 90° angle at the back. In later pictures, you can see I've sanded and sculpted the bridge front face so that it slopes back. This sort of counters the action of string pull warping a bridge. (which is what happened to this one)
Step 3. I finish-sand bridges... I don't like sharp edges on my bridges. It doesn't matter, but I figure it takes an extra 15 minutes and looks nice for years, or until another new bridge gets cut for it. The Mouse palm sander and then some ultra-fine 400-grit smooths the raw maple out nice.
Step 4. Again, I had the old bridge to go by, but even if I didn't, I use this set of dividers to mark the bridge for filing the string slots. File about half the diameter of the string deep, and then pencil some graphite in the slot. Breaking an upright bass string is saddening.
Lastly, doublecheck the soundpost placement, restring, and call this job DONE. I played a couple tunes on this little cutie, and wow, the scale felt cramped. I checked with my rule and wouldn't you know, it's 35-1/4"... just a tick over an extra-long bass guitar.
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:)
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Awesome!
Paul (who ALWAYS breaks sharp edges unless otherwise noted... it is just the right thing to do! ;) )
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This will probably be the last post showing work on the King Mor-Tone, as there's finally nothing left to do but string it up and hope for the best. I'm out of the shop for a few days; got a short inpatient procedure scheduled for myself at the 'people shop' here in Salem, VA. tomorrow morning, and historically, I don't do well after anesthesia. Shouldn't be around sharp things, or forced to think critically. Check. This is not a good place to make bad decisions.
Anyway, the endpin/footrest on the King wasn't adjustable at all. (remember the drumstick?) That's not really uncommon on old basses... I guess players just carried their own personalized length of footrest with them to gigs. I didn't have any reason to think it wasn't original equipment, so rather than replace it, I modified it to be an adjustable one. It wasn't as much an effort to keep with originality as it was a cost savings; a good quality adjustable endpin for bass is an expensive item. Modding the old one was a matter of figuring out how to get some threads into the wooden plug. Usually, the brass ferrule is threaded, but this one is thin gauge and only meant to be decorative. It would never hold... the first time somebody cranked the thumbscrew to tighten the footrest, the threads would surely strip. (can you tell I've been stewing over this one a while?)
Figuring there was nothing but time to lose by trying, I eased the brass ferrule back off the endpin, then drilled a slightly oversized hole in it on the drillpress. Using a small routing/sculpting bit in a Dremel, and going freestyle, I inlaid a square nut into the wood plug, securing it in place with CA glue. After dressing off the excess with a file so it was round again, the brass ferrule was carefully tapped back on, oriented so that the oversized hole aligned with the new threads for the thumbscrew. This is a small thing, but worth mentioning- I always turn an endpin so that the thumbscrew is most easily accessible when the bass is laying on its treble-side ribs. That's how most players (including myself) set one down, the very next action being to run the footrest in for transport. Presto, right there is the thumbscrew. So if you were wondering, that's the decision-making process. Just didn't want anyone to think it was random.
Now all we need is a 5/8" diameter rod for a footrest... something strong and lightweight. I think an 18" length of thickwall conduit should work fine. For those who like to ponder the road not taken, here's what we could have done: https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1743-CARBON_FIBER_REPLACEMENT_ENDPIN_ASSEMBLY_FOR_UPRIGHT_BASS.html (https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1743-CARBON_FIBER_REPLACEMENT_ENDPIN_ASSEMBLY_FOR_UPRIGHT_BASS.html)
The good folks at International Violin Co. sent me a new set of LaBella strings and a new bridge for it... they're waiting for me up in the shop. I hope (beyond hope) to finish up the King Mor-Tone this weekend. Back in a few.
Pics:
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pretty tricky ;) nice job.
...sending healthy thoughts your way for a few days.
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Probably a foolish question but I know little to nothing about uprights. Are bridges always maple? I can see the advantages of using it but wonder if there are alternatives and what if any difference they would have on the sound.
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McGuyver-esque move with the end pin thumb screw. 8)
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In hopes that this is a proper venue for a bluegrass joke:
What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle?
The beer stains.
Peter
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... I'm out of the shop for a few days; got a short inpatient procedure scheduled for myself at the 'people shop' here in Salem, VA. tomorrow morning ...
Will be keeping you in my thoughts.
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Well, I made it back from La-La Land again... what a trip. I think the anesthesia is mostly out of my system now, but not enough to go up to the shop, and even if it was, because they took some biopsies and tissues out, they stopped my NSAID osteoarthritis meds for a week. (already been off it for 5 days, prior) so I don't feel too much like working. They said I talked crazy for a while. Maybe it just seemed that way to everyone else... made sense to me! Anything I post here that looks suspect, just know that I was trying really hard. This has not been a fun couple days, but tomorrow will be better.
Anyway... lemesee here. Brian had a question about bridges. Traditionally yes, violin bridges are maple, though applewood and willow have been used. Maple is very hard and stable. Maple bridge blanks are sold in grades, the highest being seasoned wood of very tight grain. I usually buy something closer to the lower end, up to mid-grade, depending upon the instrument I'm working on. While appropriate for an orchestral grade instrument, on a laminated (plywood) bass, there's no reason to put a $139 bridge made of aged, seasoned European wood on there when a $37.50 bridge will sound just as good. I would probably avoid the $24.50 special, with wavy grain and knots in most cases. More importantly, there is a whole science behind how the bridges are cut too. I'll attach a diagram showing all the individual parts, but the tone of a particular instrument can be altered some by how a bridge is cut and shaped. Thickness, taper, size of the heart and kidneys, the legs and ankles, all have some bearing on the way vibrations are transmitted from the strings to the soundboard. (called a table or plate on a violin) Granted, on most of the instruments that come my way, just carving the taper on the front face, getting the arch to match the curvature of the fingerboard, and making sure the feet fit the top is the most important job. I have on occasion, when a bass has a wolf note or dead note, carved out some mass from the bridge if, and only if, moving the soundpost didn't solve the problem. I have changed the soundpost in a totally dead-sounding bass before and had it make a world of difference. I've also done everything I knew to do, to absolutely no avail. To answer Part 2, yes, there are alternatives. I've even seen an aluminum, mechanical 3-legged bridge once that was fully adjustable, but I think it was actually a tool, made for holding string tension on an instrument while a wooden bridge was being cut. If I could find one, I'd buy it. Sorry for the ramble, hope that explains things a little more clearly.
Ahh, the fiddle and the violin... other than beer stains Coz, a violin has strings; and a fiddle has strangs!
And for those who never get a chance to meet Dave Houck, you're seriously missing out... an email from Dave, while sitting in a hospital waiting room waiting your turn is a very calming thing.
I'll be back in the Scroll Shop tomorrow... stringing up The King. (that didn't come out right...) ::)
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"And for those who never get a chance to meet Dave Houck, you're seriously missing out... an email from Dave, while sitting in a hospital waiting room waiting your turn is a very calming thing."
A few years back, I had what they thought (wrongly) was a heart attack. I posted about from the hospital - about 2 seconds after I got home, the phone rings, and Shes says "It's some guy named Dave?"
A true gentleman!
Peter
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:D
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Thank you Greg. Once again highly educational. You now have me seriously considering taking the trip back to playing a “oversized violin” something I haven’t done since the mid 1970s.
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I'd love to tell you all it's done... it's 99% done.
I finally got The King under string tension this weekend. Cut a new bridge and soundpost, installed those new LaBella SuperNils on that rebuilt tailpiece and wound them over the old tuning machines. I am still not happy with the footrest... I need to make one more hardware store run to find just the right thing. Then a little final clean-up, and we'll send this one down the road.
He sounds pretty good, making the first growly thumps in a very long time. I'm impressed with the sound... very articulate, even with the notoriously dull nylons. (well... they are new) Maybe I'll do one more post on The King, but I'm going to take it kinda' easy this week. Let those strings finish stretching, and make sure everything stays together tight. Might start working on that Epiphone guitar case. That ought to be a nice, messy job... ::)
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Man, that is *JUST* AWESOME! Looks brand new to me!
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:)
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Joy... :D Long live the King !!
That last photo has that timeless look, everything looking like it's where it aughtta be.
I'd love to hear that artickoolation you talk about...I don't think my China bass has that ;)
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Very nice!
I almost want to drop my doghouse down the stairs so I can send it to you for a refurb! :D 👍🏽
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After a trip through the Plumbing Section at the hardware store... the King's endpin/footrest assembly is now indestructible. I started with a 3/8" × 1/2" × 1' galvanized nipple, and a threaded cap, cut down to size and shined up on the bench grinder, to fit standard rubber chair tips, available in black or white. It's rock solid, adjusts without rattling, and cost all of $10. I am quite happy with this fix. :)
I tuned up the SuperNils, and quit for the night.
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The King Mor-Tone has held up perfectly this week, and I'm happy to report it'll be going home this weekend. I'll try to snag an interview and maybe a picture of the reunion. Up next on the benches; a pair of Kay uprights, and that Epiphone carved-top guitar case.
I thought you guys-n-girls might enjoy a little pictorial of a very sweet guitar a buddy of mine came into... a 1930 model 0-18 built by the C.F. Martin & Co. in Nazareth, Pennsylvania. I actually worked on this very guitar in January, 1993... found an index card in my file box on it. The lady who owned it since new, has since died and her estate sold it. The guitar is in remarkably good condition. It does need some work that I am not qualified to do, and so will be handing off to the masterful Ward Elliott for a neck reset and a delicate repair to the original bridgeplate. I will probably assist in some of that. It'll be good as new when done.
Last night though, I replaced the crusty/rusty incorrect tuning machines with a new set of reliced brass Golden Age tuning machines that are near-exact reproductions of the originals. I gave the frets all a once-over, and rubbed in some lemon oil to the ebony fingerboard and bridge, then restrung this little jewel with a set of Thomastik-Infeld Plectrum 12's.
It's 90 year old boards just sing like nothing else... there just ain't a much sweeter tone than a 12-fret Martin.
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Couple more details... sorry about the sofa pics... it was late and I was whooped. :P
*that last shot shows the real magic; Mr. Martin's famous "X-brace", quite possibly the most revolutionary thing anyone ever did to a guitar.
I've been taking a little time off, but break's over! ;D
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Oh, man! My ears are smiling just at the thought of what that must sound like.
Peter
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Those replacement tuning pegs are fabulous. 8)
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Oh, man! My ears are smiling just at the thought of what that must sound like.
Peter
She's a sweetie Coz. I had an identical one just a couple dozen serial numbers newer into 1930, they're darn close but I don't think mine was quite this rich in bass response. It now belongs to the guitar player in our oldtyme band. I sold that guitar, and a 1927 2-17 a few years ago and had the Martin Custom Shop build me a 1932-spec'd 00-18. Once the Custom Shop started offering Authentic Series options like hide glue construction, I could basically order a brand-new vintage guitar, down to the smallest detail. There are some subtle differences between the 0 and 00, the latter suiting me better, if only a little.
This is my old 1930 0-18 in action a couple years ago at a fiddlers convention- (I'm on bass here...)
...and here's my 2013 Custom Shop 00-18.
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Those replacement tuning pegs are fabulous. 8)
Stewart MacDonald... they're just amazing at getting this stuff right. "Golden Age" is a line of restoration products they carry. The tuning machines are high enough quality that C.F. Martin & Co. let me order them on my aforementioned Custom Shop 00-18.
I got an early start in the Scroll Shop this morning... basses strewn around everywhere!
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I'm traveling, and so have neither my speakers nor my cans - and I don't want to try with the laptop's built-in "speakers", so I'll have to wait til I get home to listen. Can't wait!
Peter
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Well, a freak thunderstorm came through and knocked out the power before I could get much done with it, but here's the next patient in my little hospital of horrors.
1951 Kay M1
Nothing too serious here... nice bass actually. Never had the neck broken, which is a BIG plus. The edges are chewed up pretty good and the fingerboard is deeply grooved. I'll have to plane that, and while I'm at it, there are some kinda' sketchy side-markers I'll probably remove and patch or possibly put markers in the correct spots. (that might be an interesting post actually...) I'll fix the worst of the edges and leave the minor stuff. It's missing a scroll ear, also not a big deal, now that replacements are available. There are a couple seam separations too, and some loose pieces of veneer all around, but that's easily fixed with glue and clamps overnight. I won't have this one long.
Already called Gollihur Music and got a new set of strings on the way and a pair of replacement scrolls on the way. (check these out! https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2888-KAY_AND_ENGELHARDT_UPRIGHT_BASS_REPLACEMENT_VOLUTE_SCROLL_PAIR.html (https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2888-KAY_AND_ENGELHARDT_UPRIGHT_BASS_REPLACEMENT_VOLUTE_SCROLL_PAIR.html)) These old Kay basses sound so good with synthetic gut strings, so I ordered a set of these Eurosonic Lights for it: https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1250-EUROSONIC_WHITE_TAPEWOUND_UPRIGHT_BASS_STRINGS.html (https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1250-EUROSONIC_WHITE_TAPEWOUND_UPRIGHT_BASS_STRINGS.html). Going to try to flatten and recut this bridge, as it isn't too far gone.
Here's a few 'before' photos. (note the nice, clean shop... ;) ...won't stay that way long!)
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Wow! I don't think I've ever seen a finger board that deeply grooved. Sort of looks like what my Bernese Mountain dogs have done to my flooring. I hope you enjoy planing.
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I'm thinking if you plane those grooves out, you'll need to trim about an inch off the bottom of the bridge to bring the strings down within reach of the board......
Man, those look more routed than eroded!
Peter
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Yeah, that fingerboard is just a bit worn.
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So many questions about the Kay...
Is that what playing rockabilly slap bass does to a fingerboard?
Multiple radius’s on the fingerboard?
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Hey Gang, sorry for radio silence... some stuff went ka-blooey at work. Had to be there a while. Here's some words I'll pass along that have come to mean a lot to me in the past few days. "...if you're not part of the solution, there's a lot of good money to be made in prolonging a problem." I didn't make it up or anything, so feel free to hurl it at a consulting firm of your choice.
The fingerboard. Yeah, this rosewood (it's Brazilian rosewood, or BRW over on the UMGF) is worn pretty severely, but I've actually seen them worse. It's the strings... they had a very abrasive, almost like roundwound wire outer winding that during 70 years just chewed its way in. They all will wear a fingerboard, even an ebony one, but these will wear it out faster than say, flat chromesteels. If you look at the close-up, you can even see the indentation of the windings.
This neck is also bowed pretty good. The relief is borderline at the point where I would remove this fingerboard, straighten the neck, rout a channel and inlay a carbon fiber (graphite) reinforcing rod, then reglue the board back on.
I've got options to weigh and pitch here...
1.) I could plane the bow out, removing the grooves at the same time. Faster, cheaper, totally acceptable fix, bass is 100% playable/saleable.
2.) Remove the board, straighten and reinforce the neck, reglue the fingerboard, with an added 1/8" rosewood shim to the bottom, then plane the grooves out. More labor intensive. Better fix. I'd probably do this if it was my bass. I doubt the added expense is worth it for retail.
3.) Rout channels and inlay some rosewood strips in the fingerboard, then plane the entire length, instead of a 'wedge' plane that only removes the grooves. (as in option 1) This is my least favorite, but just as do-able. Probably splits the diff between 1 & 3.
Like I said, it's a borderline case... I can work around an 1/8" of relief... this neck isn't a proverbial snow-ski. And with the synth-gut strings going on here, neither playability nor structure will be at risk. I'm mulling it over.
Meanwhile, the Gollihur Boys got my strings and replacement scrolls here in two days. And my old mentor and good buddy Ward Elliott is coming by the shop tomorrow night to check out that 1930 Martin. Y'all gotta' meet him.
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You know? I liken this thread to one of those silly reality shows (I'm assuming, since I don't watch television) but I find myself rooting for the Bass by the end of the repairs! I imagine one day you will reveal to us that after one of your basket cases gets the "axe" (pun intended) and becomes parts / kindling, I will feel great sadness and loss. The Scroll Shop is My reality show! ;D
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You know? I liken this thread to one of those silly reality shows (I'm assuming, since I don't watch television) but I find myself rooting for the Bass by the end of the repairs! I imagine one day you will reveal to us that after one of your basket cases gets the "axe" (pun intended) and becomes parts / kindling, I will fell great sadness and loss. The Scroll Shop is My reality show!
:D
It’s one of my favorite threads also... I am waiting for the episode where you get an opportunity to win a week working as Gregory’s Assistant! 8)
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You know? I liken this thread to one of those silly reality shows ...
Maybe Roy Underhill's Woodwrights shop? ...any relation Greg? ;D
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;D I'm glad for the forum here. This little writing exercise is as much a therapeutic journal for me as anything. I'm glad if it has some entertainment value too.
I didn't get much done last night... my buddy Ward Elliott came by to look at this little Martin. He agrees, it needs a neck reset, the bridgeplate needs patching, and the frets need dressing and/or replacement, and that for a 90 year-old guitar it is remarkably solid structurally, and sounds incredible. I expect he'll be working on it soon. Anyway, we just hung out and talked shop until late. Regarding the Kay fingerboard wear, his comment was: "dang - you could roll marbles down those grooves!" We talked a little about the aforementioned options for fixing it. I always appreciate Ward's ideas... that guy is a genius.
Here's one of his mandolins that was for sale a while back. https://themandolinstore.com/product/2008-ward-elliott-a-5-mandolin-sold/
Back in a day or so with updates. I need to buy a hairdryer for the shop. Think about that. ::)
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The back of that Elliot mandolin looks nice.
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I heard a gig report on the King Mor-Tone the other day... I gather it's doing well. The guy plans to play it out some, but it will mostly be his at-home bass. He has a new-ish Cremona I set up a couple years ago as his main gig-bass, but is fairly awestruck by his new/old 1938 American Standard bass. There's a lot of satisfaction seeing that one go back into circulation. And I feel good about the repairs too... they may have been unorthodox and downright counter-intuitive at times, but the main thing is, they worked. It's a playable instrument again.
I've had a stout beam of maple clamped to the neck of the Kay, trying to straighten some of the bow out of it, and it seems to be working... the past couple times I've checked, the relief is slowly decreasing. Don't think it will go completely flat, but I can definitely work with it. Haven't really done much else on it other than finish taking all the appointments off. I'll start planing the fingerboard this weekend, and repairing the chipped-out plywood edges. Got the strings and the scrolls on my bench, and a new length of soundpost. The bridge flattened out nicely in one night, clamped flatside down to the bandsaw table, so I'll re-cut and re-use it. The original rosewood nut is fine too, it'll go right back on. I'll polish up the original footrest while I've got it off the bass... should shine up nice. We'll get cranked up this weekend, then I've got some time off from Shawshank coming (not for good behavior!) later next week, so I hope to finish it up and get it back to the store.
Here's a really messy project I'm working on... this is that Epiphone Broadway carved-top guitar case I told you all about a few posts back. Man... I don't know about this one. I'm going by WoodCrafters Supply today to see if they have something to repair/replace all this rotten and missing plywood with.
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Man, I see junk...and you see possibilities!
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And I feel good about the repairs too... they may have been unorthodox and downright counter-intuitive at times, but the main thing is, they worked. It's a playable instrument again.
I am impressed with your ability to MacGyver stuff.
;D
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1) I'm with Dan; I see junk. while a correct case is cool, that is only true if it does its job and protects the really valuable part of the equation. My first thought on how to fix that would be "with fire", and get a new one! Can't wait to see what magic you work this time.
2) Enlighten one whose instrument-interior knowledge is pretty much limited to fan vs. X bracing: What exactly is a soundpost? Where does it go & what does it do?
Peter
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Yeah, that case is pretty junky. The instructions I got were to make it serviceable if I could. I think I can. And that guitar is a weird shape... I'm sure somebody makes a hardshell case for it, but not easy to find. I picked up some 1/16" thick maple veneer yesterday at Woodcrafters. https://www.woodcraft.com/stores/roanoke (I needed some other stuff anyway... LOVE this place) If it can be cut to size and bent around the bottom of the case, I'll at least have something solid to glue and screw to. The velour case lining is actually okay. Some spray adhesive ought to hold it in once there's something solid to stick it to.
Soundposts. Members of the violin family have a wood brace under the bass side of their bridge, usually called a bass bar, or sometimes a tone bar. Under, and slightly behind the treble foot of the bridge is an upright spruce dowel called a soundpost. In addition to supporting the soundboard under tension, it also transfers the vibrations of the top to the back.
The hoity-toity violin crowd will tell you it's the whole ballgame, and who am I to argue really? I can tell you, replacing an old soundpost with a new one, properly fit and positioned makes a bass sound good. Sometimes it's a huge difference, sometimes it's a little, but it never hurts. Cutting a new one isn't any more complicated than a couple cuts with the bandsaw, shaping the ends with the sander, and final fit by hand. Like most things, I finish-sand them. The only tricky part is that the ends aren't flat/perpendicular cuts. Reason being; the tops and backs of basses are contoured... so the soundposts have to be fit individually to the instrument, and since this is purely a friction fit, the post held in place by string tension, it needs to fit pretty well.
I'll try to give you all a better idea of how this process works and the tools we use when I get to that part, but here's an illustration of how the soundpost, bass bar and bridge are oriented in relationship to each other in violins. ;)
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Ah - I get it now; thanks. So my life-long habit of completely unstringing to clean with every string change would not serve me as well on a violin-family ax, huh?
Peter
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Gregory, your experience/ confidence oozes from your words... meanwhile I’m sitting here (over)thinking the whole Soundpost thing. And certainly looking forward to your “Soundpost Fitting for Dummies” tutorial.
Yea you need it to sit perpendicular and flush as possible to BOTH the front and back of the bass. But each surface has it’s own profile and chances are good that they are not ‘mirrored’... and you are dealing with a 3\4” (?) diameter footprint... and all that goes with it.
Peter, from where I am sitting - yeah, you don’t want to pull all your violin strings off and bounce the Soundpost out of position (unless you are Gregory).
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Good Morning, All.
This crazy work schedule I'm on recently has kinda' thrown me off, but I've been back up in the Scroll Shop for a couple days now, though admittedly, I spent half of the first one staring at the bench, rethinking my attitudes towards self-employment. But so-help-me I'm going to get that 30 years in at the water plant before I do.
Part 1:
So, when we left off, I was straightening the Kay's neck as much as it would go, in preparation to plane the deeply-grooved rosewood fingerboard. Believe it or not, I've seen them worse than this one, so I wasn't too worried about it. And rosewood sands up nice, and smells good too, but it's pretty bad to breathe, so I wear a particulate mask. Before resurfacing the board, if you remember, this bass had some pearl side markers inlaid up the neck... not too bad but not exactly right either. They would distract me, as a player. Ken (Fret Mill; The Boss) gives me a lot of leeway in doing what I think is best, so I elected to do away with them. I initially thought I might have to rout and inlay a strip of rosewood down that side of the fingerboard to hide the holes where the pearl dots had been, (and indeed that might have been a better fix) but instead I tried making a set of rosewood plugs, inlaying them into the voids, filing and sanding flush, then polishing up with the rest of the board. I had in mind to add smaller position markers back in the exact correct spots but I was pleased enough with the 'hide' of these rosewood plugs that I figured it was best for the store's interest to let someone else pay me to do that job.
Stay tuned for Part 2...
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:)
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Gregory, I took my upright bass for a repair estimate today. Needs serious repairs to the lower bout to repair long-standing crack and other damage, which will involve removing the top, and all that good stuff. Was wishing I lived in your neighborhood - hard it will be to trust my bass to an unknown, I’d rather have an Alembic friend do it! And it could be part of your real-time reality show.
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... and on tonight’s episode special guest appearance by Richard’s bass. 😎
It is funny you mentioned that as I was just thinking today that if my upright ever needs attention I would be tempted to take a road trip.
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Ooooh, sorry Richard, sometimes that gets expensive when the top has to come off. Sounds like it must be a bad crack that has to be reinforced from the inside. Post back and let us know how it comes out. Hopefully they'll get you fixed up. ;)
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You guys have seen me do fingerboards before, so no need drag it out unnecessarily... the pictures tell it all, just progressively move from sanding blocks and beams with coarse sandpaper to the trusty old Black & Decker power-sander, to the 'Mouse' palm-sander with varying grits down to ultra-fine. After that, I wet-sand the rosewood with 1000-grit sandpaper, allow it to dry, buff with 0000 steel wool, rub in some lemon oil, then treat it with Minwax bare wood finishing wax, followed by a good cloth buffing. All that produces a very hard, glassy playing surface, and makes that old wood just glow.
Lemesee... while we're talking about it, Paul had a question about the radius of the board. Yes, you're not seeing things, it really does have some complex curves and cuts rather than just a compound radius. Mostly what you're seeing is what's called the E bevel, on a cello a C bevel, or more correctly, the Romberg bevel. It was invented by (and named for) Bernhard Heinrich Romberg (November 13, 1767 – August 13, 1841), a German composer and cellist. The bevel gives more clearance for that string to travel. With newer string technology, it's not really necessary, so a lot of builders have phased it out. Some players prefer it, some don't.. I do, but it isn't a deal-breaker. I'd like to tell you I use some fancy tool or template to go by when I plane a fingerboard, but the truth is it's just a very true straightedge and good old-fashioned eye-ballin'. When you get done, there's a big pile of Brazilian rosewood dust. (I save it, for filler, like around those side marker plugs)
I'm up here again today working on replacing some of these missing pieces of veneer, focusing on the worst ones. We'll get to that post on soundpost fitting sometime this week maybe... I'd like to finish this one up and get it back to the store soon. I hear they may have an interested buyer. Old Kay basses in good shape are sought-after around here.
Next up in Part 3; filling in a missing chunk of plywood.
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Before and after; big difference!
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First, I noticed the dust mask...!!! (I need one like that!)
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Yesterday's work...
This was the worst of the worst of the chunks missing from the edges of this old Kay. I had to trim it out to a manageable/workable shape first, being VERY CAREFUL with sharp tools, then custom-make a little piece of wood to fit the void. Top it with a piece of veneer, then approximate the rusty reddish orange color. I added the black pinstripes afterwards. I'll brush a little bit of clear over this patch in a couple days to seal it, then burnish it dull-satin so as to match the surrounding finish. Still got a few more of these chips and loose veneers to fix, (already did) but this one was by far the most labor-intensive.
Back soon. You know, sometimes I jinx it with that... ::)
Pictures, in chronological order, as usual. ;)
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Nice work...the color looks perfect.
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Bravo!
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Pieced a few more larger patches into the back of the Kay last night. When I do these, the easiest way is to make a patch in a specific shape, just big enough to cover the missing pieces of veneer, then holding it in place, trace a cut line around it. Cut out the veneer on the bass so the patch fits, sorta' like a puzzle piece. After glueing in place, (I used CA glue, from Santa Rosa, California no less!) just trim it off with snips, file and sand back into shape. I'll touch these up just like the big chunk that was missing from the top edge.
I'll be working on replacing that missing scroll ear next... then re-cut the bridge, cut a new soundpost, and we'll be ready to re-string this one.
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Surgical Precision!
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:)
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I saw this and immediately thought of you Gregory...
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/msg/d/madison-vintage-king-mortone-bass-blonde/6991896011.html (https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/msg/d/madison-vintage-king-mortone-bass-blonde/6991896011.html)
Is it standard practice to stick a wedge underneath the sound post?
Not to mention the curly shim under the bridge.... I don’t think those “fixes” would ever leave your shop.
Scroll through images to see it.
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Wow, look at that - another King MorTone! Looks to be in reasonably nice shape too. :D
Actually Paul, if you look way back on Page 5, there's a picture of our King that shows that same wedge shaped shim where they obviously meant for the soundpost to be perched. I can only guess that it added some strength in pressure distribution... on some older laminated basses there is often a noticeable bump where the soundpost is trying to press through the back. Kay basses have this too, but it's a circular shape, like a donut. Yeah, that bridge shim they got under there makes me sad though... we'd have to fix that!
Sorry to have been absent... life kinda' took over again. I was recently reassigned at work, and getting settled into the new gig is literally been taking up all the available headspace. There's a way to see it as a negative, but I'm taking it as a positive... with about two years left to pull in public service, I've been handed a very challenging, but entirely do-able assignment that I think I can do well. I'd like to finish the race, and retire from here as Chief Operator at this location.
More on that, and back to the Scroll Shop soon. In fact, I'll be up there tomorrow, Friday, and most of the weekend. Thanks for the King spotting... that's cool! 8)
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Is that "bridge shim" the foil pickup for the Gage Realist installed on the bass?
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Sure is Michael, a David Gage Realist 'Copperhead'... I see it now. (looking at CL pictures on mobile = squint) ;D
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A proficient Chief Operator with an unwavering work ethic will be spoken about with reverence decades after he retires...
You just keep on keeping on! :D
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The Double Bass workshop where the seller says it was repaired use to sell Bag End. Don't if they still do. The owner has some connection to folks Bag End and I was able to buy both of my 2X10 cabinets from them for what Beaver Felton told me was less than his cost. While I'm not knowledgeable on uprights I thought they had a good reputation for work and sales.
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The Double Bass workshop where the seller says it was repaired use to sell Bag End. <SNIP> While I'm not knowledgeable on uprights I thought they had a good reputation for work and sales.
Keith
Thank you for sharing your experience with them.
My intent wasn't to infer anything bad about The Double Bass Workshop, it was to sing praise for my admiration of Gregory's attention to detail.
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Wow, this week flew by. I only got in a couple hours in the shop, but at least made them count. Spent some time touching-up the veneer repairs around the edges, and recut the bridge. Thought I would share this bridge picture, just because it was such a nice piece of maple. This is what a very good quality bass bridge looks like, as opposed to the medium grade bridges I usually use in here. Note the grain and silking. Nice. Definitely worth saving and reusing. That's the diff between a $40 and an $80 bridge, in case anyone asks.
And for Paul, here's a look at the soundpost 'donut' in this Kay. I can't think of what a proper name would be for this, only what it's for. After setting the new soundpost, I'll snap a picture so you can see what it does in practice. For what it's worth, there isn't one of these on the top, though I have used that donut-shaped patch idea as a repair mechanism for a compromised or collapsed top.
Still have to replace the missing scroll ear. I'm trying to decide whether to do both. They'd match better, but it's more work, not really necessary. Might be one of those things it's best I let the customer decide on.
Lastly, here's what I've been up to... the waterworks utility I work for is starting up a brand-new membrane filtration plant in the next couple weeks, that will produce about 2 million gallons of water per day. For five years, from 2011-2017, I was the Lead Operator at a similar plant just across town that produces close to 5 million gallons a day, which is the reason they wanted me involved with the project I guess. After the start-up and pilot study are complete and the new plant officially goes online, my partner (a former trainee, and good friend of mine) will head up operations of the new plant, and I will return to my former assignment at the larger, older one. I've been away from there for the past 2-1/2 years, but coming back has been a nice, welcome change of scenery, if not a huge change of pace.
The new facility is called "Muse Spring", and it's kind of a mess in there right now, but it will all come together we're told, in a couple weeks.; The facility that will be my permanent assignment is called "Crystal Spring". (we're quite geologically blessed to have a lot of fresh groundwater springs here) I'll have to do another post on that place sometime. It has a fascinating history. The City of Roanoke, Virginia and who knows how many settlements before literally grew up around this enormous flowing spring.
Who wants to wreck that train? As I said, this will be a challenge, so I hung my shingle back out a couple weeks ago and got to work.
So finally, I'm up here whittling away again today. I hate to say it, but at some point I have to start raking leaves. Maybe tomorrow. ::)
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:)
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With apologies for the hiatus...
Cutting and setting a new soundpost, illustrated (best I could) In chronological order.
1. In this case, we have the old post to go by, and it fit pretty good... not too tight or loose, so it was a matter of measuring it closely and transposing that measurement to the new post stock, leaving it a little bit long so the ends could be trimmed. (remember, they aren't exactly flush-cut) If it hadn't fit, or I hadn't had the old one to go by, there's a tool that measures the front-to-back span for you.
2. Bandsaw it to length... zip. I take several passes, in a rolling motion. Note that I mark the post so that the grain is turned a certain direction, and I decide which end is going to be 'up'. This is important because the top is beveled more steeply than the bottom is. I don't know for certain why violin-makers turn soundposts this way, but they do. I suppose it has to do with resonance and distribution of vibration from the bridge to top to back. Turning it 90° perpendicular to the top's grain, or having it run directly with the top's grain might create some problems I don't fully understand. Anyway, I make a mark so it's oriented at a 45° angle. (see pic)
3. Beveling the ends is a lot of what I call "eyeballing" work, and it's the real work here of fitting the post. There are a couple tricks I'll share. I use the belt sander to get it close, checking often to see if the post will stand up on the arched top of the bass, that being the inverse of the inside. (see pic) Same process for the back, but much easier as the back is much flatter. At this point, I like to double-check the length to fit. Once you're there, then scrub the soundpost on sandpaper by hand until the ends are smooth and without burs. I use the table of my bandsaw to keep the ends true while sanding them. (see pic) Of course I finish-sand the whole thing when it's done and ready to be set. Not necessary, it's just another 'Greg Thing'.
4. Gotta' have a soundpost setter tool for this next part. They aren't expensive, but you cannot do this without one. Here's a good one.
https://www.internationalviolin.com/ProductDetail/t81_soundpost-setter-bass (a retriever is a very helpful item to have too!) Best $40 you ever spent, trust me. You use the sharp end to hold the post with, and the other end to tap, or alternately tug the post into place once you set it inside the bass. It should stand there held by friction, not tight, but not topple unless the top is gently released. Once the strings are tightened, it's held firmly in place.
5. Like this. (see pics) There is a much bigger discussion about soundpost location. I use a general location to get started, then move it around incrementally to see if there are any advantages or drawbacks from its setting. Generally speaking, I like for the center of the soundpost to be an inch to an inch and a quarter below the center of the treble foot of the bridge for starters.
Hope all that made some kind of sense. I'm trying to finish this one up this weekend, so maybe a big finale soon!
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Fascinating - I love that "roll-cut" you do , also. Makes a lot of sense.
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Cool!
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Very cool; thanks for the tutorial!
Peter
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Kinda' weird coincidences happen with uncanny, uncommon regularity with this old friend of mine... sometimes I think we're involuntarily connected through some cosmic frequency. Other times I wonder how we could be from the same quadrant of the universe. It's been that way for almost 40 years. Anyway, if she follows me here, I'm not aware of it, but I got this link from her a little while ago... said she saw it, and thought I might enjoy the aesthetic:
http://www.openculture.com/2018/09/behold-mystical-photographs-taken-inside-cello-double-bass-instruments.html?fbclid=IwAR2R88V57O7a4I8nEjRZndnUrfEGeW6E9EAXkIYwogfAEbHyheDNUSBa4rM
I did, and in the spirit of things related to the Scroll Shop, I thought I'd pass it on.
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Bravo!
Both your work and your friends photography.
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Sadly, not a sound post to be found in the artist’s photos. I’d guess she took them with a micro lens camera through the end pin hole while her viols were in for repairs.
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:)
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I tried the link several times - once leaving it for a couple hours; it just sits there with the little circle circling, but never opening. I'm bummed.
Peter
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Peter; it worked for me. Try again later; cool pictures.
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Nope; nothing. Left it for over again, to no avail. It just doesn't like me.
Darn.
Peter (who has tried on 2 different computers)
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Well then here's one of them, and representative of the others:
(https://cdn8.openculture.com/2018/09/12213139/inside_violin_x_by_borda-dcbuck3-e1536814325153.jpg)
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WHOA!!!!
Thanks, Dave; that's spectacular!
Peter
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Well then here's one of them, and representative of the others:
(https://cdn8.openculture.com/2018/09/12213139/inside_violin_x_by_borda-dcbuck3-e1536814325153.jpg)
wow,,,that must be what heaven looks like!
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:)
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Viols are just so... spooky. Even the sounds they make is other-worldly. I think that's part of why these pictures grab our attention. Like sneaking into an abandoned warehouse full of interesting things.
Update coming; I'm done with the Kay... been done for a while actually, and moved on to other projects, but I took a few pictures of the progress. I'll try to put the post together this afternoon. ;)
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Viols are just so... spooky. Even the sounds they make is other-worldly. I think that's part of why these pictures grab our attention. Like sneaking into an abandoned warehouse full of interesting things.
Update coming; I'm done with the Kay... been done for a while actually, and moved on to other projects, but I took a few pictures of the progress. I'll try to put the post together this afternoon. ;)
If you really want spooky, check this out..Pretty cool/amazing sounds this guy gets.
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Viols are just so... spooky. Even the sounds they make is other-worldly ...
Back in the mid-80's, in one of the working country rock bands I was in, the fiddle player told us that fiddle players were possessed by the devil.
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The Sigurd Hole was nice, thanks!
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I've heard fiddles referred to colloquially as "The Devil's Box"... but I can't claim to have ever shared a stage with anyone who might be a possession of the actual Dark One. We had one fiddler who was so reliably late to gigs from his other job that he got fired. (his other job was a professional bass fisherman, and he actually ended up making a bloomin' fortune at it, but that's another story) Oh, what the heck... this guy: https://missilebaits.com/ monster fiddler, good drummer, fair steel-guitar player, and a fine human being. Just don't look for dude at soundcheck... it wasn't happening. We still play together every now and then.
So anyway, the Kay is done, and back at the Fret Mill.
If you remember, I had to replace a missing scroll/volute. I had a matched pair, from the fine folks at Gollihur Music, so I could have done both, but I figured the pegbox was rough enough that matching that plum-brown and distressing it a bit would be close enough. This bass wasn't going to be getting any best-in-show ribbons anyway, but I think the cover went okay. After sanding and shaping, (they come machine-carved pretty close, but require some final fitting) I used some alcohol-based dye, followed by a Minwax stain pen, then brushed some tung oil over to give a bit of varnish gloss and to seal it. Finally, glue in place and touch up around. Can you tell which is which? Yeah... but you can't see both sides at once.
Of course I had to replace the little rubber stopper on the endpin, and dress up the metal down there too. Strung with a new set of Eurosonic Lights, a llittle lemon Pledge wipedown, and this Kay M1 was ready for Black Friday and Small Biz Saturday.
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Great job!
That fiddle player who was always late? He has that drummer blood in him... I have known far too many drummers who had issues with being on time (that’s chrono not rhythmic).
Paul (whom thinks 10 minutes early IS being on time).
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I haven't really had anything interesting to post about from my bass shop lately, but there's been a-plenty going on up here... so y'all will have to s'cuse th' mess.
I had to share this one though. It's been a nice, easy job... a real pleasure to work on after a long string of kinda' unremarkable [however welcome] busy-work.
This is a German import, labeled William Lewis & Son, of Chicago and imported (I'm fairly certain) by the Laurel Stringed Instrument Co. It is a very nice quality instrument, I think from the 1930's, and made very similar to my personal bass. I just had to cut a new bridge and soundpost, install a new set of strings and set it up. While working on it, I took notice of a beautifully done 'spline' repair to the top. This is where a split in the spruce top had opened, and wouldn't close all the way with a glue joint. A wedge-shaped piece of spruce is inlaid into the top and touched up. It's a fantastic repair. I took one picture of it close so you all could see it from my perspective, and another from a standoff distance so you can see where it is. Other than that, look at the inlaid purfling, the scroll carve, the tuning machines, the quality wood. Macassar ebony fingerboard.
It sounded every bit as fantastic as it looked too. Enjoy the pics...
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:)
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Other than that, look at the inlaid purfling,...
But it's not centered !!?? ;D
That wood looks like it's made to vibrate... beautiful bass !!
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Looks like it's been well cared for.
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Beautiful bass! Do you make the bridges yourself? Are adjusting bridges common? Looks like you have to take into account the radius of the top for the feet as well. Nice work!
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I order bridge blanks from one or the other of two well-established suppliers here on the east coast... the feet have to be fit exactly to the contour of the top, and the crown or the bridge has to be cut to match the radial arc of the fingerboard, then notched for string spacing. I also finish-sand bridges, just as a nice touch. This was a nicer quality bridge than I typically buy, (commensurate with the quality of this bass) note the nice figure in the maple. Adjustable bridges have been around for a good while... you can also buy the adjusters alone, and have them installed on your bridge, but it is a very tricky job the first dozen or so times. ::) https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/3111-ADJUSTERS_FOR_UPRIGHT_BASS_BRIDGES_ASSORTED.html
The act of 'cutting a new bridge' as described here is a commonplace job when doing a full setup on a bass. It takes me about 2 hours, start to finish, but is usually combined with cutting a new soundpost too, and restringing. Turning one around in 3-4 hours makes me smile. :)
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Things being what they are, I kinda' let the Scroll Shop thread go to sleep for a while.
First, it was the virus protocols that threw not only our staffing at work into a crazy spiral, but also the music store I do repair work for had to close up. Then, just as things began to smooth out, my counterpart at work got critically ill while on vacation the first of July. (not COVID related) We nearly lost him a few times. He finally got to leave the hospital yesterday, but returning to work is out of the question for a good while yet. Without any backup trained to run our Water Treatment Plants, basically, I've been on double-duty since July, seven days a week, 10-12-14 hours a day, so no time, energy or brain power left for solving various issues ailing upright basses by the time I get in at night. Gotta' load the coffee pot, set the clock for 5 am and... lights out. It's about to get better - they hired a couple young-uns for me to train. It'll be a while, but at least it's a start. Most of my days are spent either in WQ-413, (my rolling office) or the brick one in the background. I was telling someone the other day, this would be tough if I didn't like what I do. But I do. And lucky for everybody, I turned out to be pretty good at this Water Treatment Plant gig. Besides that, it's been kind of a blessing in disguise to be so busy this Summer... it's had the effect of somewhat isolating me from the constant barrage of All Bad Stuff, All The Time. I really only have time in a day for the problems that are specifically assigned to me... like there's an imaginary sign on it; Greg Handles This. Or there's a Greg-shaped hole in the wall, where I left in a hurry.
In the midst of that, I started losing the feeling in my hands again. This osteoarthritis is a ruthless nag... it just keeps chewing on you. After getting a second injection back in June, it was already wearing off by mid-August. I got another shot today, right between C7-T1. We'll see how long it lasts, but my next stop is another fusion surgery. (y'all check this needle out... this picture is from June) I need for that operation to be a while longer. Sometime in late 2021, ideally.
So as much as I miss my shop, it'll just have to stay on the backburner for a while longer. There's a couple projects up there really calling me though... two Cello Banjos with my Dad. A metal-bodied National Duolian. A Hyak fretless bass restoration. A Guild Starfire about to get some Alembic activators. And those are just my projects. I did break down and have myself a good Shop clean-up day a couple weeks back. You know it's serious when I roll the big trash can out there and start pitchin' stuff out the door!
I'll be back at it as soon as I can.
~Greg
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... since July, seven days a week, 10-12-14 hours a day ...
Hope they're paying you well for all those hours. ???
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... since July, seven days a week, 10-12-14 hours a day ...
Hope they're paying you well for all those hours. ???
Or, if not, that you're building up comp time; at that rate, you could retire retroactively last year pretty soon!
Peter (who, as both a retired Teamster and a labor historian, actually hates the idea of comp time instead of overtime pay)
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What a beautiful picture, full(very!) of hope and intrigue.
(http://club.alembic.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24650.0;attach=12224;image)
I hope those young'uns do well so you can rest and play a bit more.
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Thanks Fellas. It's funny- in an email exchange with Mica the other day, she said almost the exact same thing as Dave. ;D With the shortfall of Operators trained to run these specialized systems, they haven't minded (or even flinched) at the timesheets I've been turning in. I think they're wondering how in the world I do it. The answer is, I can play 5 hands at once, and win, because I've been at it for 29 years, but it takes all day. One of my trainees looks promising. If he gets through his Class 5 (entry level) liscensure exams this Fall I can turn loose of some responsibilities.
So yeah, overtime. And I'm building up a huge pile of unused paid leave... anything over 300 hours of which will be rolled over into an extended illness leave bank on Jan 1st. That bank already has a bunch of time in it too. That will come in handy for when the next Titanium upgrades are installed.
Whatcha' gonna' do with all that OT? Well... next week, I'm sending #80-1684 home to California for Wizard Ron to work some magic, and Mica to love on her. http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25753.0 That'll cover a little bit, but I was going to do that anyway! Like always; Pay the house down. Do other boring, responsible stuff. ::)
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While I've finally had some time off from the real job, it's been nice to get back to the Scroll Shop and find things pretty much like I left them last Summer.
Here's a 1949 Kay C-1 upright with a loose bassbar. I got the top off without much struggle, and glued this one up night before last. I'm patching up a couple ragged edges and tearouts in the veneer yesterday and today, I'll knock the clamps off this afternoon and put the top back on tonight or tomorrow. I don't like having a bass disassembled for long, because they will literally start to lose their shape, making it much harder to put back together correctly. That's part of why I put this one off until I had a week to work on it... I needed several days.
And here's a funny thing... with the occasional duplicate or missed serial number at Alembic, here's a dilly; this Kay bass has two different serial numbers on the same instrument. Not sure how that happened! There's the ink-stamped number and the hand-written one right next to it, on the same label. Oops.
And for my guitar-playin' buds here; check out this '54 Gibson LG-1... as near mint condition as you will see. I did a little setup and replaced the dry-rotted buttons on the original Kluson tuning machines, but we opted for a direct replacement set to go on the guitar, with much finer gearing. Great little guitar. This buddy of mine over here is the luckiest joker ever at finding items like that... no idea how he duzzit.
It's been fun up working on stuff up here this week. I've even been working on a guitar for ME! Back to the Water Plants tomorrow though. [sigh]
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Paddle Faster!
This cool old banjo came in the other day. It had been a family heirloom, discovered after a recent passing. Most of the time when I get these, they are just in sad pieces, destined to be wall-art. This instrument, though catalog-grade, is probably 120 years old, and after this afternoon's work, it is 100% playable again. I don't think it will be played. Though unmarked, I'm pretty sure it was an an S.S. Stewart. It's hard to say how many hundreds of thousands of these were made and subsequently destroyed over the next century. Once I saw this one's potential... it was mostly 'all there' I set about disassembling the pot, cleaned all the hardware, polished the metal, replaced a couple missing hooks and nuts, replaced the old calfskin head with a new Remo 'Renaissance' model, filed the fret ends where they had sprouted badly, then made a new bone string-nut to replace the original wooden one. After reassembling, I set it up with some new strings and tuned up.
Here's to a survivor. I can hardly wait to return it to the family.
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I bet the family will be very happy. ;D
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That old banjo looks good!
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As my piano teacher at Berklee succinctly said once in near-perfect Bob Newhartian dead-pan as I expressed my frustration with a Bach piece:
"Dave, Bach is a motherf*%#er".
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Had a little repair project come in a couple weeks ago and hadn't really had time to mess with it until now. I built this (from a kit) as an Engagement/Christmas gift several years ago for some friends of mine. It developed a crack in the spruce top this Winter, so I swelled it with some humidity and glued it back up. A couple little cleats inside and it's good as new.
So what in the world is a double-neck birdhouse for? Well... it's a courtin' dulcimer. Say, you got two musical soulmates who want to spend some quality time together, but you know... in the next room. So you give 'em a courtin' dulcimer. As long as you hear music, its all good, but if'n the music stops... somebody better fetch the ice bucket. ;D
This couple actually got married though, and I played at the wedding.
Pictures for fun. Hold the dirty jokes. ;)
And here's what a courtin' dulcimer sounds like-
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As an experiment as a lad of 15 years of age , I attached a piezo pickup to a dulcimer . I proceeded to connect the pickup to a tube powered Newcomb PA Amplifier that I had acquired at a local electronics surplus shop .The speaker was a single 12" speaker from a film projector if my memory serves me correctly . I remember playing the dulcimer with feedback and getting a reprimand from my parents :) My Grandmother on the other hand supported my effort , and praised me !
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That courtin’ dulcimer is totally cool!
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The courtin' dulcimer plays the same role as a Ouija Board; in-the-parlor-with-Gramma knee rubbing; oh, the excitement! (Next step - the bundling board.......)
Peter
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I got my passion for shade-tree loothierie (and playing music) from my Dad, a long time ago. He turns 75 tomorrow. I am very much hoping we can build some more banjos together before the clock runs out. Parts for #28, #29, and #30 are waiting for that time.
Here was a thread from the last collaboration we did. This one didn't get a serial number because it was a rebuild of an old Gibson brand. Fun project though. Last I heard, it's being played regularly. https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=16175.0
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May you both enjoy the day!
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Please be so kind as to extend birthday wishes to Dad on my behalf.
And get to buildin' them that banjers!
Peter
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[clicks lights on]
Welp... everything is about where I left it in here. There is a nice layer of dust and cobwebs in the windowsills. But the COVID-crazy season is drawing down at work, I now have three full-time Operator trainees. So I'm going home at a reasonable hour and even having a few more weekends off. All this means... I can start using these rusty marbles rattling around in my head for repairing musical instruments again instead of spending day and night solving the problems of running three Water Treatment Plants.
Don't get me wrong, I love this new mentorship role teaching my kids... and I got three good ones too. I'm just young enough to remember what Operator training was like, but old enough that none of them were born when I started this gig. Releif has come. It's been a tough couple years, but I'm hoping to finish out my time doing this.
The Scroll Shop is back open, at least on a limited basis.
I'm already working on a couple things. The most advanced project right now; Honeytone #22-28. The first new construction in over ten years. The neck, me and Dad had laminated up years ago. It's a cherry beam, with walnut and maple pinstripes. I just glued up new headstock faces on the front and back the other night, rosewood on the front with a maple underside (creates a thin white pinstripe) and a cherry veneer on the reverse, simply to hide the "ears" glue joint. Inlay was done years ago but I may redo it. It was cut from recycled ivory piano keys if you're curious. What ever I do, the headstock inlay will match up, and have our trademark honeybee inlaid into the scroll.
This'll be an open-back 5-string, modeled on turn-of-the-(last)-century styling, but brought forward in a few ways. Spoken-for already.
Pictorial updates are coming.
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Waiting for approval from the Ol' Man for the headstock inlay on #28. He thinks it needs something else on the right-hand side. I'm lobbying against. It's such an asymmetrical shape anyway. The real reason though; negative space. And on top of that, in nature, our eyes want to see things that make sense. Like stuff collecting in a concave surface. It wouldn't be likely to deposit on a convex slope like that edge. Nothing I draw there looks right.
Warming up the Dremel... steadying the nerves.
*What I should mention... there will be a faux truss rod cover that will serve as a nameplate just above the nut. It will be the same white ivory piano key medium, and cut to a shape that complements the inverse of the first fret inlay. More use of mirrors and negative space.
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I tend to agree with you, Greg. But I think your choices are elegant understatement or total bling.
If Dad insists, I'd go with the general design of the ones by the D tuners (I think D; not a banjer picker), curved on the hypotenuse to match the line of the headstock, and big enough to come close to the G.
But like I said - only if he insists; it looks great as is!
Peter
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I tend to agree with you, Greg. But I think your choices are elegant understatement or total bling.
If Dad insists, I'd go with the general design of the ones by the D tuners (I think D; not a banjer picker), curved on the hypotenuse to match the line of the headstock, and big enough to come close to the G.
But like I said - only if he insists; it looks great as is!
Peter
We're both okay with this modification... but I got called in to work. ::)
*and yessir, they're typically tuned to Ds. In this one's case though, the low string will most often be tuned to C. The oldtimers call it "sawmill C" tuning. gCGCD. As opposed to gDGBD standard.
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Yeah, that works.
Peter
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Looks REALLY good!
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Snowy Sunday afternoon. Up here in the Shop, alternately playin' guitar, drinkin' coffee, and workin' on the inlay for #28. I'm a little bit past halfway done, six pieces to go. It's just so tedious, I have to take breaks. Oh, here's what I have in mind for the faux trc/badge too.
The Ol' Man sent me a text he might stop by later to inspect.
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Nice. What's your inlay material?
Peter
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Nice. What's your inlay material?
Peter
Ivory veneer, from recycled piano key overlays. A buddy of mine works on pianos and saves the stuff for me. It isn't thick enough for anything other than shims or... inlay. I've used it quite a few times.
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It's done. All the pieces are in, and epoxy is filled around... my nerves are shot. Going for a walk, then I'm going to annoy the neighbors with some really loud guitaracket.
(they'll be watching a football game anyway...) ::)
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Nice. What's your inlay material?
Peter
Ivory veneer, from recycled piano key overlays. A buddy of mine works on pianos and saves the stuff for me. It isn't thick enough for anything other than shims or... inlay. I've used it quite a few times.
Sweet. Reduce, reuse, recycle!
The current issue of Vintage Guitar has an article on a Spanish guitar that is the only known example by a guy from the turn of the last century (whose name escapes me, and the mag's downstairs, but he's apparently legendary), and it talks about how common it was then & there for luthiers to use wood salvaged from furniture. Steve Cripe, who built Lightning Bolt, Jerry's last electric, made the outsides of the sandwich from coco bolo from an antique Chinese opium bed.
You are in good company, Sir!
Peter
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Just a couple little air bubbles I'll have to drop-fill... looks pretty okay. Dad really likes the looks of this one. I'm liking it too.
Next; frets... lotsa' frets. I really, really, really, don't like fretwork. This is where I put the hard-sell on Pops.
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Very nice. 👍🏽
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The current issue of Vintage Guitar has an article on a Spanish guitar that is the only known example by a guy from the turn of the last century (whose name escapes me, and the mag's downstairs, but he's apparently legendary),
Peter
Rafael Casana.
Peter
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Update on #22-28... lemesee... since last time:
We finished up the headstock inlay, and engraved the faux truss rod cover with the Roman numeral for a nameplate, and the brand into the 19th fret. I do this by hand of course, with a Dremel and a small scribe bit. Always have, so they all look kinda' hand-signed. If you're wondering; yes, it's very tedious and a slip means start-over. I got these on the first take.
Went with aluminum wire for side markers. Nothing fancy about it, just drill a hole between the frets, dip the wire into some CA glue, press in, clip off, file flush. Nice shiny dots. I put two at the 12th fret.
Finally... frets. This neck wasn't bound, so that made the job exponentially easier. I used mandolin fretwire first of all... it's a smaller gauge, but works well for banjo too. I like to do one more good dressing of the fingerboard before hammer time, get it as smooth as possible, then drag a fret saw through the slots one more time to clean them out. After that, cut the frets to length, and pound them in with that nylon hammer. I've used a piece of leather to back up the wood, and my bandsaw table as an anvil for this job... forever. Three or four firm blows. Be very, very concentrated when doing this. After all of them are in, file the ends flush, and bevel. Then shape the fret ends with a triangle file. Polish up with fine sanding. Use your hands to feel for sharp fret ends and just keep working until you get them all. I hate fretwork. My Ol' Man loves it. This time though, I think he loved watching me do it. I got a good job... a really good one. They look like little silver railroad ties. One little extra, I filled the little space underneath each fret with some rosewood infused epoxy to 'disappear' the slots. Makes for a nice finished look on an unbound neck.
After that... finish sanding. One of my favorite jobs. I can get comfortable in my chair, listen to some tunes and work at it for an hour or two. Most of the wood in this neck is cherry, and not very grainy, so it went quickly. I raised the grain with some water twice, and buffed with 0000 steel wool. Slick as a peeled onion.
I ordered some hardware... have to admit there was some sticker-shock. What tuning machines were available at my old suppliers were not really what I wanted, and expensive. What I wanted had fallen victim to the all-too-familiar "supply chain interuption". Turns out, Gotoh makes a nice-looking set of nickel-plated 4:1 planetary machines, and a matching 5th string peg for less than $100. So that's what we went with. Also ordered a dual coordinator rod set. (this is what fastens the neck to the shell, and controls to some degree, the draft angle)
Next up - time for some finish. This one is getting a reddish-brown wash, and oil finish. It's supposed to be reminiscent of one made around 1900.
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That must feel really good to put together something that beautiful. Bravo!
* a bunch of the text is too small for these old eyes
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Thanks Paul, yeah the Font Gremlin. He replaced the Picture Gremlin here. I can't tell until I post something, but there is some combination of characters that causes the format to resize the font from that point down in the post to 2pt. Takes a minute to realize and fix. That's why so many of my posts have multiple edits. ;D I got it straightened out now.
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Sneak-peek at the color hitting the wood.
This is always my favorite part... mixing the colors, getting just the right hue. Pops is pretty happy with the results here. (I am too...) Won't be much to see for a while now... just lotsa' layers, lotta' curing time between, and lotsa' rubbin'.
*that little knot on the back of the headstock... I couldn't have planned a happier accident.
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Beautiful.
Peter
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Absolutely amazing!! I love watching the creation of beauty! Thanks for sharing so much of what you calmly do... I'll
just continue to shake my head, and admire!
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The coordinator rod set came yesterday. We're only going to use the lower rod for this project... I'm trying to decide whether to explain why...
Okay; banjo construction school. Until the 1920's, longer depending upon the maker's design, traditional banjo necks had a wooden dowel-stick that ran from the heel of the neck through the shell (round drum part) and secured the neck in place as well as control its pitch and attitude. I'm not certain who was responsible for the advent of the coordinator rod, but Gibson adopted it in wide use by the early 20's as banjos were a hot item in high demand. Coordinator rods are threaded onto lag screws that thread into the heel of the neck. This makes for a very solid, firm bond that can also be easily disassembled or adjusted. The end of the rod that comes through the shell secures an L-bracket that the tailpiece fastens to. We'll get to that later...
My problem; standard length of this lower rod is 9-3/4" because a standard modern 11" diameter (outside dia.) shell is 3/4" thick. The vintage 11" shell I'm working with here is only about 5/16" so thick, so I needed a rod set with this vintage style nut that makes up the space.
As you can see here, all dry fit perfectly. Class dismissed!
I'm pretty happy with how this finish is looking! Those little bits of ivory really pop now, and our maple veneer shows up nice.
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Thanks for the lesson, Greg; I keep meaning to find out how banjers work, and that was a nice step in that direction.
And this thread is certainly doing nothing to dissuade me from my when-I-win-the-lottery dream of a Honeytone banjitar! (Which, unlikely as it is,has a better chance than me learning another instrument; heck, in 42 years, I still can't really say I've learned the first one.............)
Peter
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Joy, then Sadness... and Frustration. You can experience them all within moments in the Scroll Shop.
The new hardware came in yesterday morning, so I hit the pause button rubbing coats of oil onto the neck of soon-to-be #22-28, and mounted the tuners. (joy) There is a purpose to this. It compresses the wood and finish a little bit when the nuts are cinched down on the bushings. If the finish were at full thickness, you could generate a crack in it. Not as much with oil as lacquer, which is more brittle. Still, I wanted to see how they looked, more importantly, how they fit. Very pleased with both. The 5th string peg is a tapered bore, and I didn't seat all the way, just allowed the splines to cut their grooves. It will be exactly flush when we do final setup. I'll put a leather block backup behind the neck and drive it in with a fret hammer, with a little dab of glue to bind it in the natural event of wood expansion and contraction.
Then... well, then I decided to go ahead and thread the lag bolts into the heel of the neck. Should have been an easy job. It already had two old ones installed. Thought I could simply clamp a small pair of vise grips to the shank and back them out. The upper one went fine. The lower one, the one that really matters, wouldn't budge. I should've quit right there. I tighted up and cranked... and... [tink] it broke off flush. (sadness) I tried to carve out around it and get another grip. Broke again. (frustration) Because of the way we traditionally install the lower lag bolt on an angle then bend the end straight, I knew there was no use trying to drill it out.
I went out for a walk and thought about it. Came back a couple hours later with a solution. Remove the piece of wood with the broken bolt, take as little as possible, true it up, and add a piece of wood back on. Dowel it, conceal the dowels under the heelcap, even make it decorative if need be.
So that's where I start this morning. The ruined piece has been cut off, the neck heel is nice and true, ready for a new block to be added and sculpted. Won't be easy. I may end up with a total refinish. I still have plenty of the color.
Wood is forgiving. But man... I was so close. :(
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Hey, that's why they call you guys "loothiers", right?!! Hang in, it's still beautiful - you'll get it!
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You got this! Excited to see the repair.
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After having thought about it for a few days, I decided to try making as seamless of a replacement piece as possible. I picked through the scrap lumber box for a piece of cherry with some grain angle and color close to what this neck has. Plus, I have the discarded piece cut off the heel to go by.
Found some, split and bookmatched it with some maple and walnut veneers like the neck recipe', glued up and clamped. I'll glue and dowel this new piece to the neck, then hide the dowels under the heelcap. (which I was able to salvage... even added a couple pinstripes to the underside of it)
The fix should be as strong or stronger than before. The new lag screws will be going into new wood. The finish blend/touch-up will be tough, but I think it's do-able without a total refinish. Depends on how the re-carve goes. We'll see.
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I think this'll work out okay... I need to jig up before glue/clamp, because this has a centerline, it has to be exact. Tired tonight... and don't trust myself, so another day, but I wanted to see it roughed in. And I need to measure the total height again anyway. Easier to adjust that now.
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Wow, that will be nice :)
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Yes.
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Perfect...
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Somedays, man... >:(
Here's the new piece, glued on and doweled. A little bit later, I sanded these dowels flush and put the heelcap on, then carefully re-carved. When I say carefully, I mean, very much so. I was hoping beyond hope that I'd be able to brush in the color and gloss up. It looked... kinda' okay. It looked like a repair. A decent repair. I didn't really want to see it at all though.
Two days later... every time I looked at it I just got madder until I didn't even want our name on it. Finally this morning, I grabbed the lacquer thinner and stripped it off to the wood. I got a good, proper sanding and buffing, and taped everything up again. This time I airbrushed it so I could control the saturation at the repair, and it looked so good that I did the same at the other end.
The refinish is done. Building up clear now, looks pretty durn good, if it did take two tries!
Pictures later, worth the wait...
*still wet, but here 'tis! I'm not touching it for a couple days. I'll let this totally cure, and see how much it shrinks before I gear up for a happy-dance...
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:)
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Y'know, some days it's easy to remember why I run Water Treatment Plants instead of building musical instruments. >:(
Yeah, I have made a hash of #28... AGAIN. I thought it'd be a good idea to go ahead and run the new lag screws into the neck heel before building up any more finish. Good thought... except the new piece snapped just as I seated the screw. Mom would still be washing my mouth with dish soap...
I'm going to go play now.
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I believe you will find a resolve for this.
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Oh yeah, I will. I just have to lay it aside and work on something else for a while... can't be objective when I'm this irritated. It's only wood and time, but I don't want to fool with it or even think about it for a while.
And besides, there's plenty else to do.
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So I fixt my screw-up from a few weeks ago. At least, I sawed off the split and glued-up a(nother) new piece of cherry to accept the lag screw that will eventually secure the neck-to-pot-assembly. I still have to re-carve it, and refinish again.
In the meantime, her 11 year-old sister, #27 came back in for some repairs and re-doing. Not sure how much of that I will document... it may be changing hands. I'll see how that transaction goes and feel out how the new custodian is about things.
It's kinda' cool seeing the two of them on my bench together.
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So things at work got Krazy, with a capital K this Spring, and once again my Scroll Shop had to get mothballed for the bill-payin' gig. Not all bad though... see, I have become a full-time Water Treatment mentor to 4 very bright kids (not really kids; age 18-24, just kids to me at 53) who have worked very hard this year, and as of last week, all four of my trainees are now liscensed Waterworks Operators. They still have a ways to go for their full Virginia liscensure, but they are on their way. I've built myself a team that I hope in a year will render me obsolete. I'm so proud of them I could explode some days, but very tired too. And definitely ready for a break.
I'm sitting up here in the shop tonight, looking at a bass I just did a little bit of setup and repair on... thinkin', yeah... I miss this. So maybe a few more posts of my goofy loothier nonsense this Fall.
Here was a creative little wedge clamp job I had to dream up for this one. I can't remember ever fixing a seam separation here. Ever. Weird-o-rama. It's like they forgot to glue the blocks to the corners.
Anyway. Lights out again.
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Hope you're able to get back in the shop soon.
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Nice work! :)
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Well, the Ol' Man hung it up at the Rock Factory last Friday afternoon... 44 years and 8 months after picking up the hammer.
Not sure yet if this means he'll be building any more Honeytone banjos, or any whittling at all. So far, he ain't done much but hang out with his new friend Rosie. It remains to be seen just how long my Momma is gonna' put up with these two hangin' around in her she-shed, corruptin' the groove. ;D
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Please extend my congratulations & best wishes to Popofhuncote!
Peter
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Dad and Rosie look happy.
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Took on a couple jobs for my Shop lately... been trying to keep the incoming work to just restringing and setup, rather than major repairs. I still don't have the time to put in up here. The public service career is uhhhh... well. It's a livin'. I have a whole new class of trainees, and I'm so burned out after a day that an hour up in the shop in the evening is about all I can afford.
Anyway, sometimes you get a little gift... this old Czechoslovakian bass had a wonky fingerboard that needed planing before restringing. I didn't realize until I wet the wood to raise the grain, but wow... it was a beautiful piece of flamey walnut. How it ended up on a Czech bass with a European birch neck is anyone's guess. After polishing up, it looks spectacular. I'll probably string it up tomorrow and return it to the store Friday.
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Nice.
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Wondering how common flame walnut is for a fingerboard and the age of this bass?
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Wondering how common flame walnut is for a fingerboard and the age of this bass?
Common to see walnut fingerboards on American basses, less often on European basses. My gig bass is a German import with a walnut fingerboard on a birch neck. I think just lucky this piece had those little curls of flame figure. This one... I'd guess it's post-WW2 import, maybe 1950's. Nice bass for what it is. Sounds fantastic, nice balance, good growly tone with the chromesteel strings I put on last night. I still need to do some final tweaks to the action.
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The Czech bass went back to work today. ;D
I made a couple more little adjustments, and zipped it up in the case. Returned it to Fret Mill Music for my customer to pick up at their convenience. It sounds like they might have a couple more jobs down there for me soon.
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Keep 'em coming; I love all these pics.
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Here's an experimental project I'll share... I've been posting about this one over on the UMGF because I needed help finding a source for CNC cut replacement necks. There are some really sharp luthiers who hang out there, a couple I know a little bit.
The backstory first; I've had this old Martin 12-string for almost twenty years, a 1969 D-12-20. Style 20 is almost indistinguishable from Styles 19 and 18... a little bit of purfling and binding is about all. If they made anything other than 12-string Dreadnoughts in Style 20, I've never seen one. So I got this beautiful old guitar... can count on the fingers of one hand the times its its gotten used. I remember recording with it a couple times, when we needed a jangly rhythm guitar. The acoustic folk band I was in had a little more use for it. I put it up for sale, along with an old Martin mandolin at the local music store I do bass repair/setup for. The mandolin sold, this guitar just sat. So I picked it up last weekend, and started thinking...
It desperately needs a neck reset. Just to keep it playable, the bridge has been shaved almost flat. Other than that, it's pretty clean. No cracks, couple dings, amazing mahogany sides and back, kinda' ordinary spruce top, rosewood (probably Brazilian in '69) fingerboard, and what's left of the bridge.
I talked to my buddy and mentor Ward Elliott about the neck reset, and sure, he'd help me with that... but I started wondering, what if this guitar was a 6-string instead of a 12...? Now we're back to the front. I found a source for 12-fret Dreadnought necks from a CNC machine, that come with the dovetail cut, even a truss-rod channel routed and headstock slots cut. That was a big hurdle, I can handle things from there in my own shop. So I put that old Martin on the workbench and started measuring things. It was about that time I came to the realization, Martin 12-strings, even though they are D-size, are short-scale. Oops! That changes everything. Instead of 25.34", these came with 24.84". That moves the saddle a half-inch back. Not impossible to deal with, considering the bridge footprint is oversized anyway.
I took some sage advice and spent the rest of the afternoon doing a temporary conversion, just to see -not to put too fine a point on it- how will it sound with half the strings it was designed for. In addition to the shorter scale, these things were incredibly overbuilt, inside and out, to withstand the extra tension of all those strings. The top soundboard has a third tone bar (brace) glued laterally right behind the huge rosewood bridgeplate. Ward joked, when I sent him a picture, there was enough lumber for two guitars in there! I eased the original bone nut out of its slot, and made a new one with a scrap of ebony. I removed the old 6-on-a-plate machines from each side of the headstock and mounted an old set of nickel Waverly W-16's I had stashed away, skipping every other hole; perfect fit. Looks a little bit funny with that long headstock, but it worked. Getting the string spacing approximated at the bridge was harder. I ended up filing 'keeper' slots in the saddle to hold the strings where they needed to be, then staggered the mounting between the doubled rows of bridge pins. Again, looks goofy, but works!
Finally, strung it up. I've been passing it around for a few guitar players to test-drive. I'll say this; it should not sound like it does. I am quite surprised at how loud it is. The tone is a little weird. I think some of that is because the neck angle is so shallow and the saddle is so low that there's almost no break angle over it. That's a pretty big deal on an acoustic guitar, or really any stringed thing... that downward pressure has so much to do transfer of vibe from string to top. So I think that improves vastly with a neck reset.
I think it's worth doing, so I think we're going to convert it to a 6-string. There are a few things to decide, maybe a short-scale, maybe a long-scale. We'll make a new bridge of course, that will be oversized, but drilled for 6 pins. The bridgeplate will have to be plugged and re-drilled. But we'll save the original 12-string neck intact for a future retrofit. Nothing done that can't be undone. I already have everything else for the project.
Here's a few pictures:
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If they made anything other than 12-string Dreadnoughts in Style 20, I've never seen one.
M-20 Steve Earl.
Peter (who understands your desire for a guitar you will use - but mourns the loss of a fine 12-string)
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If they made anything other than 12-string Dreadnoughts in Style 20, I've never seen one.
M-20 Steve Earl.
Peter (who understands your desire for a guitar you will use - but mourns the loss of a fine 12-string)
Well I'll be dipped in sugar. There it is - they did make something else. And I reckon Style 20 is actually an older, more obscure one from before 1898 too. They revived it briefly for this or that. Need to check the Book of Longworth for that. Cool.
Not a lost 12-string Coz, just dormant. My whole plan came together as a result of the desire to not destroy the original neck, specifically so it could be restored someday. ;)
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If they made anything other than 12-string Dreadnoughts in Style 20, I've never seen one.
M-20 Steve Earl.
Peter (who understands your desire for a guitar you will use - but mourns the loss of a fine 12-string)
Well I'll be dipped in sugar. There it is - they did make something else. And I reckon Style 20 is actually an older, more obscure one from before 1898 too. They revived it briefly for this or that. Need to check the Book of Longworth for that. Cool.
Not a lost 12-string Coz, just dormant. My whole plan came together as a result of the desire to not destroy the original neck, specifically so it could be restored someday. ;)
In the immortal words of Emily Latella - "Oh - that,s very diffetrent. Never mind."
Peter
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A number of years ago I had a booth at the annual Three Amigos World Guitar Show in San Rafael. Toward the end of the day on Saturday, just as the show was about to shut down for the night, a little old guy with a beat-up case with a rope handle came up to my booth and said some other vendors thought I might be interested. He opened the case to reveal an old D-12/20 in what looked to be rough condition. The strings were all rusty, the pick-guard was separating and curving away from the body, the entire guitar was filthy, and there was a chunk broken out of the top corner of the headstock. I bought it for a good price ($400 or $500 as I recall). On the way home I stopped by Guitar Center and picked up a 12 string set. I figured I would clean it up, restring it, and bring it back to the show the next day and sell it. I cleaned it up, lemon-oiled the board, and used my wife’s hair dryer to straighten out the pick-guard and glued it down. After restringing it, I played it a little. Senior Management listened to me play it and said “you’re not selling that guitar”. Still have it. It really is a sweet under-the-radar 12 string.
Bill, tgo
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I would love to see it, Bill. Next time you have it out, post a pic?
*Let us turn in our C.F. Martin & Co. bible to the book of Michael... where evidently he differentiates between the original (very) old Style 20 and Style 12-20. Learn something every day!
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Having met Bill's D12-20 a couple months ago, I can attest to its awesomeness.
And thanks for the documentation, Greg. I find it interesting that the original -20s were apparently fancier than the -21 style; strange. Also, the later -20 is the onliest time I know of that they reused a style designation for different trim* - let alone a different body wood!
*OK, except dropping the herringbone from the -28s, and changing the -41/42/45 series from snowflakes to F-5 archtop-style hexagons & flowerpot to cruciform CMF.
A
R
T
I
N
Peter
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Allow me to correct myself, Greg; Steve's signature M was a -21, not a -20 as I mistakenly stated.
Boy, is my face red......
Peter
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Don't be red-faced on my account... I am so confused by the specs on all the artist signature models, that really, all bets are off on those. I went huntin' and there is even a John Mellencamp signature. Man, is that thing a looker. My Cousin Graham has an OM-30 Pat Donohue signature, gorgeous guitar. There never was such a creature made. Style 30 is one of the rarest, most obscure of all. I had the (nearly) unique pleasure of working on one; a 1904 Style 1-30 guitar some years ago. It belongs to a local artist, and S-O of one of our Honeytone Banjo clients. When she brought it to me, I had to have Mr. Longworth help us identify it, as there were no model stamps at that time, only serial numbers. (hers was a 4-digit...) Style 30 is nearly indistinguishable from Style 27, and both are fancier than Style 28. There is no known example of a Style 29.
C.F. Martin & Co. is a funny bunch to figure sometimes. But they kept very, very detailed records. In the grand scheme of Martin guitars, my old D-12-20 is but a footnote. I had another gun-slingin' buddy of play it this weekend. He was also struck by the sheer volume it has. He agreed, the midrange will improve with the neck angle tipped back to drive the sound in. So far, nobody thinks it sucks as a six.
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Working on a few wooden Christmas presents up in the Scroll Shop today, for friends and neighbors. At least the ones not on the naughty list. ;D
I have realized a couple things.. I have got to fix the dust collection system on my belt sander. My neighbors yappy dogs have now made the naughty list. And I'm out of earplugs and dustmasks. Y'all think about that one...
In pursuit of the Martin 12-to-6 conversion project; I called up Stew-Mac the other day (you can't really call them anymore... but I remember the good ol' days when you could) and ordered a matching set of ebony bridge pins, endpin with abalone shell dot inlay, and strap button. I pondered for a while on the tuning machines. These nickel Waverlys would be fine. But I just remembered what they came from... and they need to go with that guitar. It was recently gifted to a young lady who I have played bass with off and on for about 10 years, as an early wedding present. I got that guitar new, back in 2001, and immediately replaced the original tuners (these) and... well, I forgot about it.
Anyway, I'll return them to her, as soon as they vacate the trial run on this neck. Here's what will go on the new 6-string neck; I may swap out the ivoroid buttons for black.
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You didn't get the full set from Stew-Mac, with the ebony-buttoned nickel Waverlys?
Peter
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Nah, I passed. I like the larger engraved nickel-plates of these 1919 reissues better. Those Waverlys are $uper-nice, if you get my drift Coz... I still may though.
Here's the coincidence; and why I had this odd set of W-16's for a slotted headstock in a drawer all this time. They came from a 2001 D-18 VS. My Dad gave me a set of engraved Waverly 3-on-a-plate machines for it right after I got it, and they were still on the guitar when I presented it to the aforementioned bride-to-be. They'd been on there so long, that it slipped my mind that they didn't come on that guitar. I don't want them back or anything, but I do want her to have the originals.
Here's the guitar, and those tuners. Note the similarities between this guitar, and my project in progress. ;)
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Those Waverlys are $uper-nice, if you get my drift Coz....
Oh, yeah; when I had to replace the tuners on my old Alvarez, and again on the lower-end Yamaha classical the youngest gave me, I went straight to their "Economy" line; did not pass "Waverly", did not spend $200........
Peter
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Years' End, Scroll Shop Update:
Well, another year is gone, and I have done very little in here. My 'Day Job' is such that I reached the last pay period this year with 86 hours of paid leave that could not be carried over into next year. According to the Payroll Pixie, I am a habitual offender of this policy... so I'm burning up as much time as possible this week and once again they are putting the overage into a bank of extended illness leave, which I will ultimately be using for another fusion surgery. So the leave time doesn't get "lost", just re-appropriated. The main focus of my work is turning from daily operations to the role of trainer these days, and that's how I hope to spend the balance of my time... (a little less than two years now) teaching the next generation of Water Plant Operators. Planned obsolescence.
Projects...
Fret Mill Music sends me upright basses for setup and usually just minor repair with some regularity. I have one in right now with a wonky fingerboard and a neck split to fix. I'll probably oil-treat the playing surface when I'm done.
Honeytone Banjos #27 and #28... both are awaiting final reassembly. I had tragedy strike on the neck of #28, and it was one of those things where I had to just disconnect from it for a while and then re-evaluate. I was so discouraged... but... it's only wood and time. I can fix it, but it just has not been a priority. (*the whole episode is documented beginning on page 18 here... makes me sad just looking back!) Anyway, the customer it's for is currently playing my ca. 1890 John Farris, and he ain't in no hurry to hand it off. The other one, #27 was a repair, that turned into a trade-in. Not sure what Dad wants to do with it. I finished the repair they asked for, but the re-assemble and setup work remains. All he said was, "let's hold off on it a while, they weren't going to like it, so I traded them another banjo..." Okay... I did a super-clean repair, and as far as I know, nobody has seen it but me... the whole thing was weird, but whatever.
My Martin 12-string D-20 conversion is full-steam ahead. Everybody who has played that guitar is blown away with the sound. So there are a couple decisions to be made about what degree to take the job to, but I definitely want to follow through. Right this five minutes, I am less bothered by the elongated 12-string headstock than I was, and have somewhat grown used to the chunkier neck. I could very easily decide to simply reset the original neck, and leave six tuning machines on it, which confines the scope of work to replacing the bridge and plugging/shimming/redrilling the bridgeplate. That's a relatively easy job. But the jury is still out. My buddy Ward hasn't weighed-in yet, and his opinion will carry the most influence. Maybe we'll still make a whole new neck, maybe not necessary!
I've got a couple cellos in here that need setting up... meh, nothing special. I had a wild notion of making one of them into a travel-sized bass. Then I realized it would be more of a conversation piece than a bass, and not that much of a conversation.
And some old friends just gave me a whole stack of wood from a closed down shop... walnut billets, several boards of mahogany, and more of cherry, a couple marked as ash. Theres some smaller boards of curly and some birdseye maple too. I just had time to sort and stack it yesterday.
I got enough Lowe's giftcards to buy a new ShopVac... mine finally died this year, so it's super-dusty in here. The Shop-Vac, doubled as my dust collection system on the belt sander... oh, well.
Maybe I will have more to post about this year. I sure hope to anyway.
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. Right this five minutes, I am less bothered by the elongated 12-string headstock than I was, and have somewhat grown used to the chunkier neck.....confines the scope of work to replacing the bridge and plugging/shimming/redrilling the bridgeplate
At least amongst those of my age cohort, it was once common to buy a 12 & string it with 6 to get a wider nut - but I think every one I've ever seen rigged like that was a solid headstock (not that it would matter). But (and keep in mind I'm no luthier) I have to wonder how one would go about plugging & redrilling bridgeplate and top; do tell.
I've got a couple cellos in here that need setting up... meh, nothing special. I had a wild notion of making one of them into a travel-sized bass. Then I realized it would be more of a conversation piece than a bass, and not that much of a conversation.
Conversation piece? Nonsense! Just one of a number of acts doing just that:
Peter
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Coz; Stew-Mac, ya' gotta' love 'em!
https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-bridges/bridgesaver/
But (tootin' my own whistle here) loooooong before this clever invention, rather than risk a disaster trying to remove a badly worn, but stubborn bridgeplate, (please don't ask me how I know about this...) especially these giant rosewood ones found in early 70's Martin guitars, I found that if you had the bridge off first, (and usually it was already coming up) you could pre-shape and mark a very thin maple shim at the 1-6 pin holes for alignment, then glue it in place. After it set, you could fill all 6 pin holes with an emulsion of slow-set epoxy and dust from the sander. When the bridge was glued back in place, you were drilling back through essentially "new wood". I'm sure I wasn't the first knucklehead to dream up this solution, but I did arrive at it independently... did it dozens of times, including on my own 1950 D-18.
Then Uncle Dan over at Stew-Mac just one-upped everybody. It's a cool tool, and my buddy and mentor Ward claims to have made the initial investment back in just a couple jobs.
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Greg, can what you described be used to fill a strap button screw hole and reset the screw that has come loose?
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Greg, can what you described be used to fill a strap button screw hole and reset the screw that has come loose?
Gregory knows best.
Personally I have used wood dust with wood glue to fix problems just as you described (screw that would not tighten) just not on an Alembic. I mixed up wood dust with glue, used a tooth pick and dabbed the slurry into the hole. The intent was to fill the bottom of the hole 1/8” or so, knowing that incidental glue would end up creeping on to the sides of the hole. Put screw(s) in and let the mixture set.
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Thanks, Paul, I will try that :)
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Greg, can what you described be used to fill a strap button screw hole and reset the screw that has come loose?
Probably would be overkill for a wallowed-out strap button screw hole, Rob. Like Paul suggested, I'd probably (and have) just glue a couple splints of toothpick into the hole. If it's really, really bad, I might drill it out clean and dowel it, then redrill the hole, but it'd have to be an extreme case... most of the time a sliver or two of wood glued into the hole is plenty to tighten things up. ;)
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Coz; Stew-Mac, ya' gotta' love 'em!
https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-bridges/bridgesaver/ (https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-bridges/bridgesaver/)
But (tootin' my own whistle here) loooooong before this clever invention, rather than risk a disaster trying to remove a badly worn, but stubborn bridgeplate, (please don't ask me how I know about this...) especially these giant rosewood ones found in early 70's Martin guitars, I found that if you had the bridge off first, (and usually it was already coming up) you could pre-shape and mark a very thin maple shim at the 1-6 pin holes for alignment, then glue it in place. After it set, you could fill all 6 pin holes with an emulsion of slow-set epoxy and dust from the sander. When the bridge was glued back in place, you were drilling back through essentially "new wood". I'm sure I wasn't the first knucklehead to dream up this solution, but I did arrive at it independently... did it dozens of times, including on my own 1950 D-18.
Then Uncle Dan over at Stew-Mac just one-upped everybody. It's a cool tool, and my buddy and mentor Ward claims to have made the initial investment back in just a couple jobs.
I'm familiar with the Stew-Mac tool, but it just deals with the bridge plate, no? My curiosity was mostly in re the top, in between the bridge & bridge plate.
Peter
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Oh yeah, I see your point. I'll have easy access to all 12 of those holes with the bridge off, so I'll just fill them one by one. And in positioning where the new pin holes go, ideally none of them go back through any of the plugs, but rather split the difference between the two rows of pins, laterally and longitudinally. (ain't no way that's a real word...)
Here, like this approximation shows... it'll be a new bridge of course. Thanks for making me think out loud. It really helps... all this stuff works in my head, but sometimes you have to draw it out.
*I'm also planning to widen (thicken) the saddle slot out to 3/32 or better, to allow for even better string-to-string compensation. The intonation is remarkably good on this Martin now, for having been built during a time period in which they were infamously bad, but I'm concerned that once the extremely shallow neck angle is corrected, the intonation will be way off. Basically, I'm building in some insurance!
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Greg, keep these luthier posts coming. Happy New Year, too.
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OK, thanks - that makes sense, even to me.
Peter (who will assure you that longitudinally is, in fact, an actual word)
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I'm having a little Shop clean-up day today. This place is getting to be a hazard area. ::)
So, taking a little coffee break, and from sweeping and dusting... here's the update on the D-20 conversion project. After passing it around to all my geetar-playin' buddies within driving distance, the consensus was that this thing is begging to become a flat-picker's dream. So I have taken it to Phase Two. The bridgeplate has now been shimmed with a thin maple plate, and all 12 pin holes were filled with epoxy and rosewood dust. (I save this dust whenever I am planing an upright bass fingerboard, so I have an endless supply of it)
After the epoxy had set and fully cured, I set up my Dremel tool in the Stew-Mac router base, and inlaid a carefully shaped piece of rosewood into the topside of the bridge where the pin holes were, then dressed it off flush, making it effectively a clean slate to drill into, solid all the way through. Then I routed the saddle slot out to double wide. Can't say enough good stuff about Stew-Mac's downcut carbide bits. This old Brazilian rosewood is some hard stuff to start with, and you don't need to be second-guessing whether your bit is going to bite or jump in these situations. I got a decently clean rout on both jobs, and after polishing the wood back out, it oiled up nice. Note, that guitar looks like a mummy during this operation... ;)
Like I was telling in the last installment, the new holes are located between where the two rows of bridge pins used to be. I took a while to do a tapered ream and countersink for a new set of bridge pins in ebony with an abalone dot. Matching endpin and strap button too.
And as a bonus hat-tip to Cozmik Cowboy, I took his advice and ordered a set of Waverly W-16's in gold, with ebony buttons. I was trying to think about what to do about all those extra holes in the peghead... and here's what I came up with... it's glossy black pickguard material, adhesive-backed. I made two mirror-imaged pieces to fit exactly the footprint of the original tuning machines, but only drilled the holes for the 6 machines to be mounted. It's completely reversible... no extra holes drilled, no holes plugged. And the black trim matched the rest of the Style 20 decor, to a T. I am wondering if some little rubber grommets could be plugged into the inner holes? Just... you know, for that little bit of extra attention to detail. Yeah, I might look for that.
I restrung it last night, and played a few minutes. Success - Phase Two is complete... if Ward's cool with it, and doesn't see any red flags, the neck gets reset. And we'll make a brand-new bridge. I'm thinking at this point, I could get used to this neck. The more I look at it, the more I actually think it should stay. The angle though... we gotta' fix that.
Here's some pictures:
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Looking good, Greg; the tuner-hole covers are an elegant solution!
Just as a thought, before you reset, watch this: https://youtu.be/UTVzGM1Znv8 (https://youtu.be/UTVzGM1Znv8)
My cheapo Takamine 12 needs a rest, but nobody (including Takamine) can tell what its actual neck-joint anatomy is (and a standard reset would be several times what the thing's worth even if it were straight-forward), so I'm thinking about doing it his way. So, try it on your lovely Martin so know whether to risk my $83.50 EvilBay buy........ ;D
Peter (who will emphasis that this not an endorsement; just at thought)
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Nicely done, Gregory.
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Wow! 😎
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Very nice work, Greg!
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Thanks fellas.
Well, I made a trip through the hardware section of Lowes, and found these nifty little matte finish black plastic hole plugs, perfectly sized; 1/4".
Whatchall think of the finished look?
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I think you are a bonafide Craftsman!
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DITTO!
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. Right this five minutes, I am less bothered by the elongated 12-string headstock than I was, and have somewhat grown used to the chunkier neck.....confines the scope of work to replacing the bridge and plugging/shimming/redrilling the bridgeplate
At least amongst those of my age cohort, it was once common to buy a 12 & string it with 6 to get a wider nut - but I think every one I've ever seen rigged like that was a solid headstock (not that it would matter). But (and keep in mind I'm no luthier) I have to wonder how one would go about plugging & redrilling bridgeplate and top; do tell.
I've got a couple cellos in here that need setting up... meh, nothing special. I had a wild notion of making one of them into a travel-sized bass. Then I realized it would be more of a conversation piece than a bass, and not that much of a conversation.
Conversation piece? Nonsense! Just one of a number of acts doing just that:
Peter
Dead South is in heavy rotation in my current playlist. A bit of metalgrass just to show how versatile the cello is.
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Today's Episode; Paddle Faster!
This late 1800's S.S. Stewart five-string is a real treat. Most of the time when I get a 130+ year-old banjo in to work on, it's a bag of mixed parts that gets hung on a wall somewhere for nostalgic art. This one is 98% all there, and will be completely playable when I'm done. I think the tuning pegs are replacements, one of them is mismatched and certainly is, but three of them are old. Very old. The serial number stamped into the neck's dowelstick even matches the one in the spun-oved hoop. Look at the extreme play-wear in the fingerboard. It took a long time to do that.
I fixed some tear-out at the fifth-string nut last night, then stripped the pot assembly down this morning... I'm cleaning up the hardware right now. Years, a century worth of tarnish on the nickel-plated brass. Reassembling, maybe tomorrow.
The nameplate reads; American Princess... charming. I wish she could tell me a story. :)
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That is cool.
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Got the pegs mounted back on the headstock. I think it's cute how one of them doesn't match the other three. I put it where the fourth string winds on purpose. (4th is a heavy, wound drone string, octave below 2nd) Had to do some color matching to get the 5th string peg knob to look right. Sealed the color in with some lacquer.
Unfortunately, the 5th string hole and nut needed a fair amount of repair... I have filled it in, and will refit the friction peg to seat in the tapered ream tomorrow.
There's always tomorrow...
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Neat project.
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Todays Chapter: Final Assembly.
I had a fair amount of filling and filing to do to refit the fifth-string peg into place. This is ordinarily a friction fit. The existing hole was so worn that the splines on the peg shaft would not grip anymore, so I built up the inner surface with epoxy and wood dust, used an old peg for a mold, and let the stuff cure around it. The peg pressed right in and snugged tight.
The neck of a dowel-stick banjo is kind of a neck-through design... the way it is secured is very simple. There are two wooden wedges that are tapped in between this brass retainer that is screwed to the stick, and there is an endbolt that threads into the end of the stick, through the wall of the hoop. This endbolt also acts as a mount bracket for the tailpiece. I tried to picture each part of this mechanism.
Finally, strings. Per customer request, I strung this one with nylon classical strings... which requires a slipknot to be looped around a post on the tailpiece then held as the string is tightened around each peg. (yeah, it's incredibly tedious...)
All done. It really turned out nice. I'll return it to the store in a couple days, after the strings are done stretching out.
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Looks much nicer now!
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Returned the restored 'American Princess' banjo to Fret Mill Music this afternoon, and while there, a gentleman came in with a 1930's Gibson L-00, had been in his wife's family since WW2, needed restringing... yeah... I had a few minutes to spare for him. That guitar was light as feather, and sounded so dry and woody. I swear a ghost flew outta' the soundhole.
*and I'm having dinner tomorrow evening with my buddy and mentor Ward Elliott, after which we will discuss the next phase for the Martin D-12-20 conversion. It's been a while since we did a meet-up and catch-up.
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It's been almost a year since I laid Honeytone #28 aside and moved on. I was thinking about something Mica said the other day about "reactive building" though, and making the best of an oops. So I made a little plaque to remind me, and then I grafted yet another piece of cherry to the heel of the neck on #28. Drilled, and set the lag bolts. It's ready for refinishing now. One night later this week, maybe the weekend. I have another spray job to do. Probably do both at the same time.
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The American Princess turned out great. Saw an interesting program on PBS about musical instruments. One of the highlights was Stelling Banjos. They dove into the history of banjos and showed some older fretless ones.
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My mentor Ward worked for Geoff Stelling for a time, building the Stelling family of mandolins. It's funny; of the five guys who have built mandolins for Stelling, I've known three of them well. Honeytone banjos #1 and #2 were made with Stelling castings and hardware, and by a weird coincidence, the retrofitted shell of #27 (also currently in the shop) I think may have been a Stelling block construction.
Small world. Geoff was way ahead of his time, and really lead the way for small shops to become mainstream, at least in our little circle of influence. In his time, you either played a Gibson or a Japanese copy of one, and the imported copies were better than the Kalamazoo factory was making in the 70's, quite honestly. Stellings got a reputation for being a being a fine, handmade instrument very quickly.
These folks are scratch-building banjos on the next level- https://ozarkbanjo.com
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Somewhere on here way back when is a link I posted to a documentary on open-back banjo builders; they spotlighted a number of them, Stelling being the biggest. It was quite interesting. At this temporal remove, I can, alas, think of nary a hint of what I called the thread so as to facilitate searching.
Peter (who would like to respectfully mention that other fora he frequents have a function under "Profile" that lists every thread you started; mods?)
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Coz, I have had the best luck finding things by using the 'Advanced Search' feature, and searching for a really specific word (for instance, "Stelling", or "Honeytone") posted by my username.
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Huh - I had never noticed the "Advanced Search" before; as a thanks, Greg, here's the video! (I remembered wrong, it's a preview to one of 2 documentaries - builders east & west of the Father Of Waters; now I need to go see if I can find the whole things.)
https://vimeo.com/39630789 (https://vimeo.com/39630789)
Peter
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Somewhere on here way back when is a link I posted to a documentary on open-back banjo builders; they spotlighted a number of them, Stelling being the biggest. It was quite interesting. At this temporal remove, I can, alas, think of nary a hint of what I called the thread so as to facilitate searching.
Peter (who would like to respectfully mention that other fora he frequents have a function under "Profile" that lists every thread you started; mods?)
Actually there is just that: Profile > Show Posts > Topics.
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Somewhere on here way back when is a link I posted to a documentary on open-back banjo builders; they spotlighted a number of them, Stelling being the biggest. It was quite interesting. At this temporal remove, I can, alas, think of nary a hint of what I called the thread so as to facilitate searching.
Peter (who would like to respectfully mention that other fora he frequents have a function under "Profile" that lists every thread you started; mods?)
Actually there is just that: Profile > Show Posts > Topics.
Thanks, Adriaan!
Peter
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My Ol' Man came by to impart some technical advice and hang out in the Scroll Shop this afternoon... see, I've been tinkering with banjos again lately. It was about this time last year that I had Honeytone #28 just minutes away from complete when stupidity struck. I tried to salvage the mess I made twice, and finally just threw in the towel. I was too frustrated to even look at it anymore. At about the same time, I had old #27 in the shop for a couple repairs to the neck, loose binding, and the fifth-string nut needed replacement. Something went weird with the guy, and he wanted to part out the pot assembly for the money, and gave us back the neck and resonator in the deal. So #27 was basically deconstructed and decommissioned... incomplete, homeless.
Tangentially, I was recently gifted a bunch of lumber (nice wood), parts, hardware, and... lo-n-behold, a pefect 11" maple block rim, already turned to the specs I needed to put her back together.
And the mess I made of #28 has been rectified, some refinishing and reassembling to do. Plenty of slips between the tongue and the lips, but I hope for these two to hit the mean streets in early Spring, 2023. Both are spoken for. Then I'll start on #29.
This is just a temporary assembly, to make sure stuff fit together correctly, and that geometrically/mathematically it was going to work. It'll be completely disassembled and rebuilt-reborn over the next few weeks, all new hardware, all except for the oil finish, which is remarkably good. Ill touch it up and buff it out. Man, it feels good to see this one back in one piece!
(if you look on the bench in the background there, the other two necks for #28 and future #29, a short-scale, are laying next to each other...)
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Very attractive.
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The figuring on the back looks like a nebula.
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Wow, nice work! :)
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The figuring on the back looks like a nebula.
It does... maybe why the 4-point star motif got in my head?
#26 built right before this one had a 4-point star inlay pattern too, but it was different. It's been so long that I can't remember exactly what the original inspiration was, only what order my ideas happened in. I still have my original drawings in the dusty old file, so they are still there to reproduce, though those two banjos are long gone. #26 and #27 were both completed in 2011, but the design phase was well before that. #99-25 went to a Tugboat Captain on Virginia's Eastern shore, and hasn't been seen or heard from since. It was piano black, with ivoroid bindings, and the inlay, like her maple sunbursted sister #26, was made of reclaimed ivory piano keys. I've used that stuff a lot. A friend of mine works on pianos.
The long and short of it... I guess I had a thing for 4-point stars in the early late-90's/early-2000's. And apparently I was growing out of an art-deco torch phase. Which coincidentally is when I drew #28.
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In a drawer in my filing cabinet, I have a sketch of a sun similar to that star. Mine has 4 smaller rays betwixt the long ones, and they are all wavy; has the same circle in the middle.
Should I ever, by some miracle, find funding for my Honey Tone banjitar, we shall speak further on the matter, eh?
Peter (who also digs the living crap out of that torch fretboard)
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It's time to quit while I'm ahead, and go for a walk.
Honeytone #27 update-
All the parts to complete it have now arrived, and I'll be working on it very soon. It's going to a very good home, I think a permanent one. This final time, it will have a pot assembly with a hoop that is of a block construction rather than a 3-ply one. It will have a 1/4" brass hoop tonering suspended at the tapered peak of this shell, which is our standard fare. What isn't standard is that block construction. I'll take a few pictures before finishing, so you can see what I mean by this. All the hardware is nice new shiny nickel-plated brass. I am very happy with what we were able to source, give these strange times. Stay tuned for more.
Honeytone #28 update-
I was able to remix and reshoot the finish, saturating the area where the grafted heel repair is. You have to really know what to look for to see it. I added an ivoroid heelcap, then another thin veneer of Macassar ebony over it to match the headstock. I'm pretty happy with the way it has turned out. If. I. Can. Just. Not. Screw. It. Up. AGAIN!
And here's another little side project-
This guitar started life just last year in C.F. Martin's Navajoa, Mexico factory, as a DC-X2 E, a Dreadnought Cutaway, X-series 2 in Ziricote high-pressure laminate, with onboard Fishman electronics. It had a solid spruce top, which unfortunately got... uhhh... busted. So someone got a new guitar, and I got a super cheap project. I fixed the top where it was broken from the outer edge, glued the crack, reglued a brace. Then I started thinking. I just turned a Martin 12-string into a 6 and got away widdit... what if I turned a 6-string into a 4-string bass...?
Turns out, a Martin acoustic bass bridge is exactly the same footprint as their guitar bridge, and the E-G string spacing is the same too. D'Addario makes a set of nylon core strings gauged for micro-scale basses. (they're meant for the Taylor GS mini bass, which is 23.5", but are plenty long enough for a Martin D. at 25.4")
So while I had the spray bottle loaded... guess whut? ;D
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I know pretty much nothing about acoustic guitars. For this guitar to bass transition, is the significant difference in string tension a concern? It looks like those bass strings have much less pull than acoustic guitar strings generally do.
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😎
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Much less I think, Dave. I had these same strings on an Ibanez "Parlor Bass", and they still felt a bit floppy at a 25" scale. They sounded fine acoustically, and they put enough pressure on the undersaddle piezo pickup to work, so I am hoping the extra almost half-inch of pull will make it work even better on this Martin. But I don't know. We'll find out in a week or so. I said they were nylon core, but I am not sure about that either. I may have gotten them confused with T-I Acousticores, which are. Whatever their composition, they are designed for a micro-scale bass standard tuning.
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According to D'Addario, they have a "multi-filament core"; it doesn't specify filaments of what.
Peter
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Side project; a Birthday Present, for Victoria of Derby. Maple, Purpleheart, Jatoba, and Brass.
(it's a hook-ety thing to hang keys and things on...)
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Nice!
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A weird set of circumstances has brought one of our earliest banjos back close to home... this is Old #8, started in 1989 and completed and signed in 1990 by my Dad. It was later serialized like the rest, #90-08.
I cut the inlay for this one from some black MOP shells found in a gift shop at the beach. It was also one of my first sunbursts. Dad carved that resonator and neck from solid maple that was sourced locally, from McFeely's Hardware, in Lynchburg, Virginia. I still have some! He bent the rim around a hot stovepipe. All the gold, engraved hardware was NOS, Gibson All-American. It was the first Honeytone banjo to have the "honeybee" logo. It kinda' became our trademark after this...
We haven't seen this banjo in 20 years.
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Very pretty,
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That's a nice one!
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Honeytone #27 update-
It's a cold, rainy morning, here in Virginia, and up here in my Scroll Shop I am admiring the reanimated #27... finally a playable instrument again after several years of being decommissioned parts. Happy to report, it sounds amazing, passing my expectations, which is partly dumb luck, because I have never done a pot assembly quite like this one, but I can take a little bit of credit for the fitting, assembly and setup.
So like I was saying, this pot assembly is a little bit different in construction by virtue of being a block type, rather than a 3-ply rim, made like a drum. This is traditionally how banjo shells were made... three or four 1/4" layers of maple, wrapped into an 11" diameter hoop that once turned on a lathe, milled out to a 3/4" thick shell that could be machined further to fit whatever tonering or flange was to be used. But my donor shell here, it was made of maple blocks all glued together, then turned on the lathe. And our usual tonering of choice is a simple 11" diameter brass hoop, made of 1/4" stock. Rings like a bell, and produces very few unwanted harmonic overtones. Plus, it doesn't make an already inherently heavy instrument into a backbreaker. Trick is, it needs to sit, perched perfectly on a little seat, right at the peak of the shell, and I had to do this somewhat by hand, working to cut lines with rasps, files, and hand carving. The flat surface at the top was the easy part! After some finish-sanding, I assembled the whole pot assembly, 24 hooks and nuts hold that drum head taut under a new nickel-plated brass tension hoop, pulling up on a nickel-plated cast flange. Wow, that's a lot of shiny parts, destined to tarnish! I set it aside to work on the neck.
Fitting the old neck back to a new shell was a good exercise. Dad is fanatical about this fit... claims it is crucial to the overall sound of the instrument. I don't doubt that, just understanding how a string oscillates between two points, and anything that buffers that action is detrimental to it. So the heel of the neck needs to fit the shell. Unfortunately, the angle was a bit too steep, so I had to add a little shim to the lower heel. (adding a couple pics, so you can see how this works...) I put everything together a few times, and finally, when I had the bridge height just right in a dry-fit, I installed the neck to the pot assembly and snugged everything down. It was time to install the tuning machines and string it up...
Hang on, it's about to get good. :)
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I don't play banjo well enough to give this one a good run-in, so I had to call up a test-pilot. The thing about this part of the world... you can shake any good sized tree, and a half-dozen banjo-players will tumble out. Chances are, a couple of them will be really good ones... the rest, you may have to run off. My buddy Jake here is a multi-instrumentalist, and he ain't afraid to put on a set of picks and try some Scruggs-style banjo. (he's also a gifted frail-style banjoist, guitarist, mandolinist, bassist, and budding fiddler) Pretty happy with how this one sounds, just ten minutes off the workbench.
https://youtube.com/shorts/kl0XwfgDq2o?feature=share
I'll disassemble #27 next week sometime, and shoot a couple wash coats of walnut brown-dyed lacquer on that raw maple block rim to seal it, then after it cures, rubout and final reassembly. Here's a few pictures. For the official record, the neck is black walnut, (from a tree felled in Floyd County, Virginia) the resonator is made of burled walnut from my Dad's friend Bill Sullivan at First Quality Music Supply. (Bill is no longer with us...) We inlaid both neck and resonator with maple and rosewood accents, and a few little pearl dots. The fingerboard is Macassar ebony, inlaid with handcut MOP stars. All binding is ivoroid.
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Nice work! When I click on the video link it says private video.:)
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Nice work! When I click on the video link it says private video. :)
This is a really irritating feature of the new YouTube app, Rob... it forces the video to remain 'Private' until the premiere time. I'll repost it in a little bit.
*try it now.
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That worked, sounds great! :)
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Beautiful instrument!
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You are a Craftsman!
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Preview for this weekend;
Setting up a 3/4-size cello for [victoriaofderby's] little-sister. After retiring from the USCG, she wants to be a cellist. I can help with that.
#28 may be ready for final assembly. I'm literally watching the finish dry. I wouldn't bet the farm on this one... I'm more likely to let it sit another week. I've been too close too many times to take a chance.
There's this cool little mandolin project... I believe it was a Chicago factory-made KayKraft. My banjo test-pilot brought it over, and I have reset the neck angle, and last night, glued the fingerboard back on.
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Leveled and dressed up the old brass frets, then made a new bone nut for Jake's KayKraft mandolin last night... just a few more details to address, then we'll string it up.
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Brass frets? Well, I guess that's better than early Silvertones with aluminum frets......
Sharp-looking, though.
Peter
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I finished up a few little details on the KayKraft mandolin last night, and restrung it this morning. Had to tweak the nut slot depth on a couple strings to final height. This is especially critical for intonation purposes on a mandolin... if one string of a course is a couple thousandths higher than the other, it notes sharper when a fretted note is played on that pair of strings.
And since Jake wasn't going to remount its original pickguard, we opted to fill the mounting screw holes with screws, rather than plug them permanently. To make it look like "we meant to do that", a couple brass shoulder washers and felt grommets give it a more finished look. The rest of the old hardware cleaned up okay, so right back in place.
I'll keep an eye on it for a couple days, but it feels very solid. Ready for another 50 years. (try finding a case to fit one of these!)
Back to work on banjos and cellos. ;D
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Sweet. If I haven't said this before, i will now - you do amazing work, Greg!
Peter
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I just hope this little self-help thread isn't obnoxiously boring for everyone else, Coz. I really enjoy my time up here... I brought my coffee up here this morning, and watched the sunrise through the windows, while I studied the next project laid out on the bench in front of me.
It's a long, rambling story, how I came to inherit two Kay cellos... maybe another time. I have lost count of how many Kay basses that I've worked on... it's hundreds. Not thousands yet, but at least five hundred in thirty-some years. Probably more than half the basses that come in here are Kay or Englehardt basses. I can count on the fingers of one hand the Kay cellos that ever came through here. I had a 1/2-size Kay cello in here a couple years ago. So now I have two more... a Model 55 (3/4-size) and a Model 75 (4/4-size), both date to the late 1950's, and have a stamp that indicates they once belonged to the local School Board. The other stampings, I think must be like a rack number, to remind the student or instructor where the instrument was to be stored. Like an ID number. They are both just husks, no serious repairs needed though, just clean-up and set-up.
So a couple weeks ago, my oldest, best-est inda' wurld sez to me, half-jokingly; "Hey, guess what... my little sister wants to learn to play cello!" "Seriously?!" "Yeah, she's all about it!" "Well, it turns out, I have some..." "You have have some what?" "Is this thing working? Cellos, Dearest, I have cellos... remember, I piddle a little in a shop?" It went on like that for a while until she was convinced I knew the difference between basses and cellos. Well, Sister Sailor, U.S. Coast Guard, Cmdr. (ret.) it turns out, has more time on her hands, and wants to learn cello. I got this one covered.
Dawn breaks on another morning in my Scroll Shop.
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Nice. We usually fast-forward through opening credits, but I drove Her crazy with Game Of Thrones by refusing to - because I love a nice cello line; for my money, the instrument closest to the human voice.
Peter
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Greg,
I look forward to seeing you post what's going on in your shop. I appreciate the craftsmanship, and effort you put into your work. You are always willing to help anyone who is looking for information, on all things Alembic, and more. Please keep posting updates, and I thing other members enjoy it as much as you do!
Regards,
Pete
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Greg,
I look forward to seeing you post what's going on in your shop. I appreciate the craftsmanship, and effort you put into your work. You are always willing to help anyone who is looking for information, on all things Alembic, and more. Please keep posting updates, and I thing other members enjoy it as much as you do!
Regards,
Pete
Same.
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I got a good start on the cello for Sister Sailor this weekend.
Fingerboard needed to be planed, and underneath the grooved black paint was a beautiful slab of flame maple. I may take advantage of that later. (meaning, not cover it with opaque paint, but maybe a dark translucent color)
Fixing a little nick in the neck... not sure what caused this, but it would drive me bananas trying to play with that little divot there for your thumb to fall into. I'll fill, and flush it up.
There was an old, not-so-pretty repair to the button (neck heel) on this cello. I masked it up and touched up the area.
A new bridge, tailpiece, strings, and gigbag case are on the way from my old friends at International Violin Co. https://www.internationalviolin.com.com
*my buddy Steven Ayers, who manages a database of Kay serial numbers tells me, this instrument dates to 1939, and is a very early Kay cello.
My Ol' Man stopped by Sunday afternoon to inspect Honeytones, #27 and #28. He's pretty excited to see them finally come together. He had some thoughts about the setup on #27, and volunteered to do the final reassembly and setup after I finish spraying the shell this week. He's also ordered some special bridges for it, in a couple sizes. (different heights... 5/8", 11/16", and an in-between size - .656)
The finish on #28 is just about cured enough for final rubout. Then, we'll do final assembly. I can't wait for that one to be done. It's been a true test of my patience. A test I've failed several times now.
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#27's maple block shell got two coats of brown-tinted lacquer this evening... Gibson called this color; Sheraton Brown. I was just shooting for something that complemented the hues of the walnut in the neck and resonator. My old 1919 A-Model is Sheraton Brown...
I love how the different blocks saturated at a different rate.
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Well, in the middle pic, the bottom-left block is sort of the same color as the middle of my brown-sunburst Epiphone Sheraton......
Peter (who is having flashbacks from the 3rd pic, as his first full-time sound gig - and dear friend - played one just like that!)
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Fixed some little flaws in the cello... nothing too crazy, just some wood missing from the points, and the edges around the perimeter.
Got the endpin/footrest fitted too... sounds harder than it looks.
I did shoot the fingerboard with a dark reddish-brown tinted lacquer, to simulate a nice rosewood board.
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Fitting a new bridge to the cello... it's just like a miniature bass, or a giant fiddle. I put some squares of adhesive-backed sandpaper on the top, and slowly scrub the trimmed bridge blank until it matches the contour of the top.
To quote Han Solo- "it's all simple tricks and nonsense."
Banjo updates coming...
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😎
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8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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With just a couple final tweaks to go, here are the finished pictures of Honeytone #23-28. I'm still not 100% happy with the setup... the neck angle is too steep causing the bridge to be taller than I like 'em. I need to either shim out the bottom of the heel, or recut the top. A couple of the frets have high spots that need a dress up. The upper coordinator rod is just a placeholder for what will be a decorative chrome-plated crown nut. I needed something with the correct threads though, so I sawed an old upper rod off short. Works fine; looks dumb. Dad would fire me, but I'm kin. Besides, I've got a little job for him.
The finish on #27's replacement shell is just about ready for rubout... two new serial number labels are being issued. After assembly, Dad will do the final setup on #27. I'm trying to figure out how to reissue that number. The original build was completed in 2011. This wasn't really a complete rebuild. Almost. Hmm. Gotta' do something that makes sense.
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Back to work on the Kay cello project for Sister Sailor...
I made a new string nut, and fitted a set of rosewood pegs. Not much left to do but cut and set a new soundpost, trim the bridge, and string this one up. I glued the nut in place, installed the endpin, and gathered all the other parts together... the tailpiece is a Wittner, a faux rosewood composite, with fine adjusters built in. These are very nice.
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Final Chapter on the Kay cello for little Sister Sailor.
I use this same tool to cast the arc of the fingerboard onto the bridge and mark it for cutting to approximate height for each string. Note that some wood is left after band-sawing, to do the final shaping, and crowning.
Use calipers, dividers, or a good eyeball, just get the string spacing right. File the slots half the diameter of the strings, round them over, graphite them, and I always finish-sand maple bridges. Doesn't matter, looks nice.
Cut a length of spruce soundpost on the bandsaw. I had an old one to go by, so this one was easy. Shape the ends, cut a little at the time, because this little dowel is a friction-fit... only string tension holds it in place. Ideally, I like the top of it positioned proportionally, about the thickness of the bridge foot, and below that about that much, standing perfectly vertically of course. The green X-----> is about where I aim for them to go.
Those little notches in the F-holes by the way... they are how we locate a bridge... they're kinda'-sorta' like timing marks. If the bridge is aligned with these, and standing 90° vertically, the scale is measured from the nut to that witness point. There isn't anything exact about it. There's actually another crazy variable too, by which you tune the string afterlength; the amount of string length behind the bridge-to-tailpiece. This measurement, depending on how big of a fight you want, is supposed to be 1/6 of the scale length. So on a 42" bass, the afterlength should be close to 7". Phooey... maybe on a good bass. (I'm looking at you Casey Vancouver...)
Anyway, since I could adjust the Wittner tailpiece easily, I tweaked this little girl pretty close to that golden ratio, and wound a new set of D'Addario Prelude strings on, slowly bring it to pitch.
She's done. I've been playing it a little while this afternoon. Really sounds nice, plays great too. We'll watch it for a couple weeks and make adjustments as needed. Sister Sailor was supposed to be passing through here headed out West later this month. That'll be the handoff.
Last one is the artsy picture I sent Big Sister. :)
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Nice!
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I really appreciate, not only what you do, but also how selflessly you share your knowledge.
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Nicely done (once again), Greg!
Is the pencil in a hole drilled into the end of your arc-casting tool? What is the height of the graphite from the fingerboard?
Peter
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Nicely done (once again), Greg!
Is the pencil in a hole drilled into the end of your arc-casting tool? What is the height of the graphite from the fingerboard?
Peter
Yessir, a good ol' replaceable Number 2 Pencil. I have a giant box of them in my other workbench my other Grand-daddy left me from his shop. I use these until there's almost nothing left, then saw the eraser end off, and they fit into my homemade arc-casting tool.
You've asked a good question again, Coz, and I almost need to illustrate to answer it fully. Lemee try.
In short, the tool only gets you close, because the fingerboard extension of a bass (or in this case, cello) often sweeps up from the point at which the neck joins the body of the instrument. See, it's a completely unsupported plank from there on. Sometimes they twist, sometimes (rarely) they dip down, but most of the time, they sweep up. So my little invention is made almost the length of this fingerboard extension, and can be shimmed on either end so that the arc it casts offsets the strings from the fingerboard of a bass about 1 cm. I adjust down or up from that for each string. For steel strings, I typically set the G at 7-9mm of clearance, and the E at 9-11mm. A lot of that is player preference too. I can get them lower if needed, but that fingerboard better be darn-skippy true.
Thanks All. I'm having a pretty good time up there lately. I set the neck for Honeytone #27 up with the shell to cure last night, and sent some pictures to my Ol' Man. I'm going to reassemble the pot this week, and next weekend, the Founder and CEO of Honeytone Banjo Works is coming over to put it back in-service. I'll try to get some action shots of Dad at work... it's been a while since he was excited about doing any shopwork. Hope this is a new chapter.
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Honeytone Banjo #27's pot is reassembled, and ready for the neck to set into the coordinator rods. I'm mounting the tuning pegs on it tonight/tomorrow, and leaving the final restringing and setup to my Dad.
I am just about done with this wild-eyed project too... this is that Martin DC-X2 I converted to a 4-string Dreadnought scale bass. I still have a couple minor tweaks to make to the nut and saddle to get the action right but... [mad-scientist voice]
IT WORKS, IT WORKS!!! 😄
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Well, I have yet to see anything to dampen my resolve to rob enough liquor stores to someday commission a Honeytone banjitar; loveky work, Greg.
Peter
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Pops called in sick today, so I've been working on an upright bass for another customer.
Here are a couple pictures of the Martin DC-X2e bass conversion. It's been a fun project. I may do another sometime. Maybe a 000 or OM. I learned a lot from this one.
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Ooh.
How does that Martin bass sound?
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I'm liking what I have experienced so far, Paul.
It actually does have quite a surprising amount of volume, compared to the Ibanez parlor bass I had, just played acoustically, and plugged-in it sounds very good. Even Fishman's lowend stuff is pretty good anymore. These are very simple electronics... a volume and a tone pot that are mounted rather discreetly just inside the soundhole. There is a side-mounted battery box on the lower bout for a 9v battery, that also incorporates the 1/4" jack, and this whole assembly can be removed and serviced or replaced easily with just a small Phillips screwdriver. It's well thought-out. The undersaddle piezo is... well... it sounds about like they do.
If I had to give a fair review, these D'Addario strings make it sound much more guitar-like than bass-like... much more phosphor-bronze 'zing', so I may eventually look for a more mellow flatwound string that is compatible. I read that LaBella makes such a thing. I don't necessarily hate these rounds ... they do have their merits. They definitely cut. And the tension, as I thought, is insignificant so the instrument is not in any danger.
I plugged up and played along with some tunes last night, using my F-1X / Crown / Mesa-Boogie rig, and tried a couple pedals, a Chorus and an Acoustic Simulator. Yeah, it's fun. It'll feed back if you push it crazy loud, but the acoustic nature comes through, unmistakably.
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This weekend's Scroll Shop project;
Was supposed to be me and the Ol' Man finishing up a banjo. He had to make a trip to the Doc-in-a-Box (this is his condescending description for the Urgent Care place closest to him and my Mom, where they are frequent flyers) so #27 can cool out for another week.
I love posting about my friends here in Virginia. This bass I've been setting up belongs to my mentor and friend of almost 35 years. When I first started played bass in the late 1980's, he was the best there was around here, and in my opinion, he still is.
Mark 'Rabbit' Ramsey came out of U.S. Air Force as a medic shortly after Operation Desert Storm, came back home and went to school to become a Registered Nurse. These days, he treats geriatric mental patients. We bonded over a mutual admiration for the bass-playing of several bluegrass and jazz luminaries, and Rabbit could easily channel a couple of them. I would follow him closely for several years, and study every note he played, every nuance. He would patiently show me anything. Often I'd get to sub for him. When I moved to Nashville in 1996 to play full-time, he replaced me with the band I'd been in. We played so much alike, it was a perfect fit. Some of that band is still together. Over the years, Rabbit and me kinda' became the first-call guys for any bluegrass gigs... and we'd often pass off to each other the ones we couldn't do, and keep bandleaders happy. It was great being able to be two places at once! I can't remember now what year it was he asked me to come play bass with his neices and nephews, so he could move to guitar, as they were working on a project... not everybody wants to go play with little kids. You might remember the show America's Got Talent... those kids went all the way to the final round. Three of them play professionally now. We just got to watch the whole thing happen.
So I've just been doing a boring old setup job on a 1978 Englehardt bass. New bridge and soundpost, planed the fingerboard, restrung. Rabbit got it new in '79, he told me. It survived a car wreck and a house fire. The firefighters accidentally knocked it over and broke the pegbox off while dousing the flames. He had the fiddler in their band fix it, who coincidentally learned shadetree instrument repair from the same guy I did. He also carved this old bridge, with the grain turned the wrong way. Small world.
It's an unusual snowy day here in Virginia. Enjoy the pictures now that my rambling post is done. ;D
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Why is there twine wrapped in the old sound post?
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Why is there twine wrapped in the old sound post?
Overwound for a hotter signal? 8)
Peter
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😂
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Yeah, that does look a bit mysterious, don't it?
Twine, or cord around a soundpost was a means of retrieving a toppled post, or I've heard, you could use a string to stand one up. I use a Herdim soundpost setter tool, an S-shaped metal tool that holds the post while it's inserted through the F-holes, then the other end of the setter is used to push/pull/tap the post to the final desired position. https://gollihurmusic.com/parts-repair-and-upgrades/soundposts-setter-tools/upright-bass-sound-post-setter-tool/ (https://gollihurmusic.com/parts-repair-and-upgrades/soundposts-setter-tools/upright-bass-sound-post-setter-tool/) There are other kinds available... this is just what I like. I also have a retriever tool... works like a retractable claw.
These dowels are a very loose friction fit... ideally, when the soundpost is correctly fit, only pressure from the strings pushing the top down holds it in place.
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I dropped off #27 with my Dad on the way home from work. He's made up a new sheet of serial number labels, and will stick one in it after he finishes tweaking everything to perfection this week.
I found this picture of me showing off our newest banjo to my Grandmother during a visit in 2010. Looks like it was almost done the first time here. She was fascinated by the side inlays in the resonator.
And here's some last looks at the finished project.
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After nightmarish week in WaterWorld, I was up here in the Scroll Shop this morning, sitting in my chair... ruminating... solving little wooden problems that have nothing to do with water or the vast myriad of human and mechanical elements that must be managed to put enough of it down the pipes every day to put fires out and make it so people can drink it. Counting the days.
Morning's first light fell on my workbench, and my next side-project; another old Kay cello, a Model 75 this time, in 4/4-size. Needs a little more work than the other one did, but will be just as stable.
I'm thinking about making it a 28" scale bass... and maybe adding some electronics. ;)
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Far out; resurrecting old violincellos is Good Work! I look forward to the next update.
Peter (who is currently reading a novel set during the Napoleonic Wars, which has repeated references to a character playing the 'cello, and so was moved to use the full name)
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Quitting a little bit early today... (I want to sneak in some playing time this afternoon...) Here's the updates;
I got the cello fingerboard leveled up and polished out. Same way I do with basses, but takes less effort. I use a good, sturdy block with adhesive-backed sandpaper, two different grits, and block plane the grooves and any severe bow out of it. This one didn't have much. Followed by some radiused sanding blocks to keep the curvature in it. Once I've got it true, (this will sound strange) I wet-sand the raw rosewood board with 1000-grit, and blot dry, then buff with 0000 steel wool. Later on, it will receive a coat of lemon oil then Minwax finishing wax, a petroleum-based paste wax I use on raw wood... gives it an almost glass-like gloss. Darkens up too as it fills pores of rosewood or walnut. Pretty sure this is Brazilian rosewood. It sure smells like it. Not a very pretty piece, but it worked fine for a fingerboard. We'll do all that stuff later... lots of work left to do. I made a shopping list for my friends at International Violin Co.
A good stream of bass work is going on in here too. I don't bother to write-up every re-stringing job, but this one is noteworthy... and a pretty big job too. The bass is a 1940 Kay Orchestra Model. She had a loose bass bar, hence a collapsed top, and a host of other issues. I'd been putting it off until there was time. I've pressed the top back out with a moist heat compress, and reglued the bass bar. Now fixing some loose veneer around the edges of the top. There's more inside the body to straighten out.
My Series I awaits me!
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The fingerboard looks nice.
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Interesting that the knots are in there, adds character.
My wrists hurt just looking (and reading) about the neck rework. Do you have any secrets/ tips about doing that much hand work?
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Nah, no real secrets... just go slow, steady, deliberate, take a lot of breaks. Keep checking with a straight edge. I kinda' have to be in the right place in my head for this stuff anyway.
I called in an order to International Violin Co. yesterday morning, for all the parts to finish up the cello project, plus I needed a couple bass bridges and some strings, some lengths of soundpost stock. It's good to be a little bit busy up here again.
In the meantime, this old Kay is beginning to take shape. I've started reglueing loose and missed kerfing, fixed some more de-laminations. Just glue, and creative clampling. Rinse, and repeat. Not sure yet how to address this big ugly hole in the lower bout. Gotta' think about that one a while. It's missing one of its scroll-ears too. Not a big deal... I have a good stash of these. I'll either replace both and save the odd one, or if I have a good match, just replace the missing one. That'll be almost the last thing to fix.
I'm tired... going to quit for the night.
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Is that Bondo® peeling off that hole??
I can't wait to see the answer - which I'm guessing will both be ingenious and look right spiffy.
Peter
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I can't wait to see the answer - which I'm guessing will both be ingenious and look right spiffy.
Peter
Same.
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Confirmed Coz; Bondo... and some fiberglass backing. ::)
I decided to make a wood patch inside first, and work back to that point, so using some fairly thick maple veneer, I have fashioned a big rectangular bandage just enough to cover and shore up the splintered out plywood. Just regular old Titebond wood glue for this, saturated both surfaces in hopes it would creep in. Since the surface it's being clamped to is curved, but not really true, I had to make a kind of compression caul to spread the clamping pressure out. This looks so goofy even I can't believe it worked, but I got plenty of glue squeeze-out all around.
I set it aside, and put the cello-to-bass project on the bench again. The parts for it came in yesterday's mail. There's a new rosewood tailpiece and gut, a rosewood endpin, (I like stuff to match) a bridge blank and a length of soundpost stock, but I'm most excited about this set of German-made Rubner machines. These things are very nice! And they solve the problem of winding heavy bass guitar strings onto cello friction pegs, and dealing with trying to tune to pitch. I may have to dowel and relocate/redrill the holes about 1/8" for the 3rd and 4th strings, but the 1st and 2nd line up perfectly. Did I say how nice these Rubners were? $70. You can't get anything decent for that. My buds at International Violin Co. fixed me up.
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And in the "just-payin'-the-bills" department...
I cut and fit a new adjustable bridge for this well-loved old Carl Meisel bass yesterday morning, just after daylight. That was a really nice old bass. The guy had gotten it new, in 1962. I've only seen a couple of them.
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Keep it coming. Everything related to making and repairing is so interesting.
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Hey Greg
Looking for some advice here. Someone Locally is selling 3/4 double bass and I might have an interest thought it’s been years since I played an upright. Its a Lazzaro Zucchi in good condition and the owner states it has never has any neck repairs. Do you know anything about these instruments and their value. No idea as to age or how it plays but wondering if it’s worth a look see.
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Can't say I've ever worked on one, Brian, but looking online Lazzaro Zucchi instruments are well-regarded. Looks like a new 3/4-size upright is about $6k, not bad for a well-made solid wood instrument.
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Still got some clean up, dress up, and touch up to do, but structurally speaking... the hole has been patched. With real wood!
I'll be ready to reassemble this old bass in a couple more nights. Next up, the top goes back on. (barring anything unfortunate)
I'm also doing a fretless conversion on a Washburn 5-string on the side for another customer. And the cello-to-bass conversion project is still moving along. I fitted a new endpin/footrest to it. I am contemplating what electronics it might receive.
Last week was a bear in WaterWorld, plus I was off for medical stuff Friday, so didn't have a lot of shop time until this weekend. We'll get back to it this week.
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Patch looks good! And the fretless conversion is interesting to see.
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After another brain-numbing week in WaterWorld, I didn't get much done up here in my shop. I do come up here in the evening sometimes, just to chill out and ruminate, but unless I feel very focused I don't pick up tools.
Today's projects picked up where last week left off; the Washburn 5-string lined fretless conversion in progress, and the 1940 Kay O-100 bass restoration.
The defretted Washburn neck has been inlaid with maple fretlines, and flushed up, finished sanded back to a smooth radius. I was able to mask off the neck below the fingerboard and file/sand the fretlines off flush to the edge. Didn't know how that would go, but I figured worst-case I'd have to either brush some finish on, or take it all off evenly. It's turned out nice. My customer isn't sure about the original side dots, whether we need to move them. They wouldn't bother me, having the visual cues from the sidelines anyway, but I'm prepared to do it if they make him dizzy. I think we're all different in this... some people's eyes are drawn to different things. I remember Mica was really worried they had put my bronze side markers in the wrong place by locating them in the center of each 'fret', but that's actually what I prefer. It wasn't however, a problem for me to adjust to the fretless Distillate that had only bronze side markers at the intervals, and of course, on the exact spot where a fret would be. Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see. For now, I'm happy with the contrast between the maple and walnut fingerboard here.
I'm about ready to reassemble the old Kay, with all the internal work done. There's still a bunch to do, but the next thing is to put the top back on. Trick is, this old bass has been apart for so long, that it's literally lost its shape some... meaning the ribs (sides) have relaxed, so that they dont match the shape of the top anymore. It happens... and it's partly my fault. So I have tapped it into place under the neck joint, and dry-clamped all five of the solid pressure points firmly, and by loosening one point at a time, massaged the ribs back where they go. I'll leave it like this until I'm ready for glue. When we glue it up, there'll be these specialized clamps I have made that go all the way around the entire body. It's a two-person job, when one of them is this warped. I'll probably get Ward to help. I'd get the Ol' Man to help, but... uhhh... well, him and his little doggie got better things to do than play in sawdust.
I'm going to quit for the day and go play some guitar. Because I can, for a few weeks maybe. :)
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That lined fingerboard looks nice!
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An older lady (older than me) brought this cool old banjo that belonged to her Father, into the Fret Mill last week to see if they could get it playable again. Ken summoned me for an assessment.
I'm just about done with it. Already installed a new head, and reassembled the pot. Working on a couple little details with the neck now. I'll probably be done Wednesday.
Easy job, cool old banjo. No idea who made it, but I'll guess probably Northeastern U.S. about 1920 judging by the construction and hardware. It was sold however, through the Montgomery-Ward catalog, as evidenced by this cool little envelope in the hardshell case pocket which contained the key, and a bracket wrench, along with instructions for maintaining your Montgomery Ward banjo. Even had the tag.
Don't find many like this.
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Very cool, that.
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Nice looking century-old banjo; what was wrong with it that it wasn't playable?
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I don't know anything about banjos, but I ran a search, and the peghead inlay looks very similar to one on a banjo on Reverb described as a Lyon & Healy.
https://reverb.com/item/56554195-lyon-healy-f-style-4-string-open-back-tenor-banjo-birds-eye-maple-un-cleaned-but-solid (https://reverb.com/item/56554195-lyon-healy-f-style-4-string-open-back-tenor-banjo-birds-eye-maple-un-cleaned-but-solid)
(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--9w8dKwcO--/a_0/f_auto,t_supersize/v1655476954/ggpbqzztwjv6ieflbyzq.webp)
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Well, based on the groovy checkerboard binding, I'm thinking it's a Rickenbacker.......
I must confess, it took me a second to reset the old brainpan from its gitfiddle default to banjer; I'm sitting here thinking "Dern - I knew Greg was good, but I can't even see where he put on the new..... oh, new head, not new headstock! My son the drummer would be so ashamed.
Peter (who may take a minute, but does get there eventually)
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Good eye, Dave, definitely the same headstock inlay and certainly the same time period, though my subject is a different model altogether. I could believe Lyon & Healy, which places it in a Chicago factory, rather than the Northeast. Unsurprising, as Lyon & Healy built for several well-known catalog labels. Some were extremely fancy too.
The checkered bindings should have been my clue, Coz... they wound up on quite a few Chicago-label Regal and Oahu guitars too.
*and yes, I replaced the busted hide, with a Fiberskyn head, a synthetic banjo head made to simulate the old calfskin hide-heads. The headstock of this banjo is completely healthy... I just thought you guys might enjoy those backstraps.
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Well, unfortunately... things have broken down at work, and I'm back to a schedule that just doesn't allow for any meaningful, productive shop time. I'll have to finish up what's on my bench and blow the lights out again.
The unbranded tenor banjo is almost done. The resonator still needs to be refitted. The old Kay Orchestra Model is in the last stages too. Th ed Kay cello, well... that was just something that I wanted to try, so it'll keep.
Maybe a couple more posts, and back to sleep again for Summer. I sure have enjoyed the break, being back in my shop again.
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Glued the top back onto the Kay bass. I've had it dry-clamped for a couple weeks to help it 'remember' its shape. A bead of glue all the way around, spread out evenly on the blocks and corners, then spread the clamping pressure out. I'll knock the clamps off another night this week.
The banjo is restrung and sounds great. Unfortunately, the flange is so warped that it will not seat into the resonator anymore. Not even close. (in the words of Archie Campbell, I tried it on and it fit'n-dit...) You can see the two little hold-down fasteners here... they are basically useless now. I'll have to devise a new way to secure the resonator. I already have an idea... been here, done this before.
Pics; (check out the matching checkerboard binding, Coz)
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Man, that resonator is gorgeous!
Peter
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The Montgomery-Ward tenor banjo is complete, and going back to Fret Mill Music this afternoon.
I came up with a solution to keep the pot assembly both centered, and offset just enough that the warped flange won't be an issue. These wood blocks are fit exactly to fit the floor, the rim wall, and the ledge of the resonator. They are spaced in a triad to prevent it rocking. Once glued in place, I marked where the screw holes would go, directly though the existing holes already in the resonator flange. A trip down the fastener aisle of my favorite old-school hardware store produced these shoulder washers for a nice finished look.
It's a good, solid fix even I'd be happy with.
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Greg, seeing how calmly you react to issues that come up with these repairs, reminds me of how I react to computer vs home or car issues I deal with. If my problem deals with a physical object, I get less agitated because I know I can modify or fashion something that will work. But if issues come up with a computer or program, etc... I'm tweaked easily and reach for the Advil.
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The Founder of Honeytone Banjo Works is 79 years old today. I have it from good sources he's been fed and sung to, and gotten back to the business of entertaining Rosie. I'm starting to understand why I don't get much help or oversight in the shop anymore.
I dropped off another gift certificate to Corvette Central after work today. He burned his last ones putting in this sweet burl walnut dash and console in his '87 C-4. (actually, one of my nephews did the installation... did a heluva job too)
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Wow - that looks like the dash on my '77 Triumph Spitfire!
Peter
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Rosie ♥️
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She's a wildcard. The Ol' Man would like nothing better than to take his little doggie riding in the Vette. Rosie just don't do car rides... never has. So they hang out there in Mom's she-shed until they get caught and run out.
Yeah, that material is cool. It's a thin veneer of wood laminated to some kind of polycarbonate material. It's very easy to work with. Notice how all the pieces are grain-matched? Kinda' like continuous wood backplates.
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Emptying out the shop and closing down for the year... I have a cool project on the bench worth posting.
This one came my way, by way of Fret Mill Music. The local V.A. Hospital here in Salem has a Recreation Department with a few musical instruments. This 1940 Gibson RB-00 has been in their inventory longer than anyone can remember. The assumption is that it was a donation by a patient long ago. The whole music program runs on donation for that matter.
Anyway, the "00" was about the cheapest banjo you could buy that had the Gibson brand stenciled on the headstock. There were quite a few catalog models with house brands... Kalamazoo, Oriole, Recording King, etc. I have seen a few TB-00's (tenor banjo) and a couple MB-00 (mandolin banjo) but this is only the second RB (regular banjo, seriously) I've ever seen.
It didn't really need much. New tuning machines, new head, bridge, and a good cleaning and setup. I'll probably be done with it later today.
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All done... what a neat old banjo.
The hardware cleaned up nicely. The only repair needed was a reglue on the resonator wall, and a chunk was missing from the nut. (you can see this in one picture) I had to improvise some resonator thumbscrews with a trip up the fastener aisle at my favorite TrueValue Hardware store, where I found these nifty stainless steel bolts with the correct threads and just enough of a knurled cap to easily thread them in. The only other option here was to replace the wall lugs and thumbscrews with new stuff, and I really wanted to leave those old wall lugs in there. Everything else was clean-up, reassembly, and final setup.
Ordinarily I don't care for marring a vintage instrument with a personalization, but the V.A. Hospital marks each one in their possession with a number somehow, I guess to keep track of them. This banjo had three different numbers from different inventory systems. I was able to rub off the (rather crude) red nail polish numbers with compound, and peel off tape, but the inscription on the lower rim of the resonator is there to stay; USVA-3
I'll watch it for a couple days and take it back to the store. One of my banjo test-pilots is coming by later to give it a test run. The V.A. Recreation Dept. had enough in their budget to buy the parts, so I'm donating my time and a new hardshell case for it. It's been living in a very flimsy old guitar case for a long time. We can't have that!
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Nice donation of your time and the case!
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The Scroll Shop is almost empty. There is one more Kay bass yet to be picked up, just a couple last tweaks to make to the setup that I'll probably finish up tonight. They'll come get it first of next week. I have one more long-term 'patient' in there that I had hoped to wrap up, but there's just no way to do it in time, and be as thorough as I like to be. So it'll keep until this Fall, and be Job #1 in the queue.
Me and the Ol' Man spent yesterday afternoon working on my front porch hideaway project. I'd been thinking about this for a while... not screening it in totally, but some privacy and shade so I can be out of the house some this Summer. I'll finish it up tomorrow, with the new carpet and move my double-wide rocker and tables back in. There's a receptacle too, so when I'm ready and able, a little practice amp and fan will join me, and a couple of my favorite wooden friends out here.
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Lookin’ good, Greg! :)
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Finished up yesterday. We added a 6" cap to the top, wide enough to set stuff on. I had bought a roll-up blind for the front, but was really disappointed with how it was going to be mounted, so using the two scrap pieces of lattice from the shorter lower side, I made a pair of 'shades' (calling them that, for lack of a better idea) and hung them from a headboard screwed to a solid, existing beam. The eyebolts are exactly 24" apart, so these are interchangeable, and when not in use, they can be hung/stored on a second set of hooks behind the lattice blind.
The whole thing was a good learning experience. I knew what I wanted the end result to be, but not sure what the best way to get there was. My Ol' Man has some pretty serious carpentry skills he got from his Dad, who was a Staff carpenter and locksmith at Duke University, so this simple little front porch blind is somewhat overbuilt. The way we framed all that lattice in was time-consuming, but super-strong. After it was complete, we ended up with a very small bundle of waste. (dadgum treated lumber is expensive anymore!) The cost of the project was just over $200. It took 2 of us about 6 hours. Not counting lunch and a hardware store run.
I'll be spending a good bit of time out here soon. Back to finish up the last Kay bass.
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Very nice! framing the lattice thusly makes all the difference
That looks a porch I could happily park my butt on with a guitar in my lap!
Peter
ps - Went to see Hungrytown at our library yesterday. They mentioned working with VA 'grassers, so I took a stab and asked; they said they didn't know you, but did know your name.
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Maybe from my tenure in Acoustic Endeavors? I've only done a couple noteworthy things, but bluegrass and oldtyme music is such a small, shallow little puddle, that almost anyone you meet in it is never more than a couple degrees separated from someone else you probably gigged with. (or got fired by. ::) )
I had a couple more leftover screws, and some scrap pieces of treated 1×6, so I took a break from the Shop and added this little corner shelf to the porch.
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Nice Work! :)
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Genie would be happy on that corner shelf!
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Speaking as the grandson of a carpenter, and the father of a National Park Service-certified Historic Preservation Carpenter, I gotta say you gots ya chops there, Gregory my lad.
Peter
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The corner shelf is nice. Is that some type of citronella device there?
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Nice porch upgrade!
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Yes Paul, citronella torches. I have a couple out there. They work pretty well. They unfortunately do not ward off these nuisance bugs we call "no-see-um's"... tiny little biting flies that are so small you can barely see 'em. By the time you do, there are big welps. I have some other stuff for that. The porch project was worthwhile and fun.
The Scroll Shop is closed for the Summer. The last Kay bass was just picked up, the workbenches are empty. I'll put a few tools away, sweep up, and blow out the lights here in a few minutes... I may be back up here in October sometime. Depending on how quickly the bones fuse and how the PT goes. And how I feel I guess.
Up first, a 1940 Kay Orchestra Model I was almost done with. (it's the dark brown one right behind my bench...)
So long, sawdust.
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nice workshop! I miss my old one, it had enough room for multiple projects; my current one? no way and I had to give up on a bunch of projects when I moved as they would not happen in the new space...Tony.
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No see-em’s…tiny vampires!
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Gregory, best wishes with your upcoming adventure.
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:)
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Fret Mill Music sent me a couple little projects to work on 'when I feel like it / or feel up to it'... I'm about a month into this thing now, and since they looked fairly low-impact jobs, I thought I'd give myself a chance at the shop for a couple hours a day. When my head starts to get heavy, or something hurts, I quit - simple.
For starters, they gave me two banjo-family instruments, a banjo-uke, and a mandolin-banjo, both from the early 1920's. The latter, being the more interesting one, a Vega "Little Wonder". I've got it completely disassembled for cleaning now, and ordered a new head for it. Vega had some unusual diameter size pot assemblies, but I was able to source a 10-1/8" Remo 'Renaissance' head for it... wasn't even an outrageous price. Should be here by next week.
The unlabeled banjo uke only needed cleaning, a new nut, and restringing. Also a tailpiece and bridge, but I have a drawer full of old junk/salvaged parts like that, just especially for times like this. I'm only waiting for a set of strings, and it'll be done. It's a very nice item. I imagine it was a catalog order, but most I've seen weren't nearly this fancy. This one even has an inlaid resonator.
*The star of the show is next... I'm finishing it up today. And fair warning, this one has stolen my heart and affections. 😍
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Wow - that is a spectacular resonator!!
Peter
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Y’all know how much I appreciate the backsides of instruments… this one is exceptional!
Thanks Gregory!
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Yes, the backside of that uke looks nice!
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Every now and then, one comes along that I just don't want to send back when the work is done. It's been a while since I fell for one this hard too... and this is admittedly an odd one. So what is it? Well, a tenor guitar. To pinpoint; 1928 Martin, Style 2-18 T.
C.F. Martin & Co. got into the tenor guitar market along with the other makers of the day, to offer banjo players an alternative sound without having to learn another instrument. They offered tenor guitars in several styles and sizes. I happen to own a Style 5-17 T from 1927, one year older, and quite a bit smaller. A size 5 body is a tiny little box, not much bigger than a baritone ukulele, size 2 is considerably bigger, longer scale, but still nowhere near the size of say, an 0, or 00- size. Just for perspective.
So I got this tenor guitar in... the bridge is crudely screwed to the top with two mismatched machine screws, and it's unbelievably dirty. There's also what I think is white wall paint spatters on it. The original Grover 'pancake' planetary tuners are tarnished up bad, but still there. It's got honest playing wear, but no real abuse. Not a single crack anywhere, not a loose brace to reglue, nothing. My instructions were simply to clean it up, and get it playable. Evaluating a guitar like this, you just never know sometimes what you might be getting into. That bridge had been screwed to the top and under tension for so long, that it was too warped to go back on without flattening. That old ebony was so brittle and crumbly, there was no way I was going to try heat-pressing it. I ended up building up the bottom with ebony veneer and then sanding it flat. (had I not built it up, the 'ears' would have been paper-thin...) I filled in the missing chunks and plugged the screw holes with epoxy and black dust. The saddle slot was a mess too, same treatment there, but I had to make a form of brass to 'pour' the epoxy against. That was a lot of trouble to save an original bridge. For what it's worth, Martin will sell you a new one, if you can provide exact measurements. I have on occasion called and waited on hold, and when the lady came back, she had a replacement bridge for another odd-sized old Martin guitar I was working on.
Plugging the holes in the top was an easier fix... I mixed some spruce fibers with epoxy and packed it tightly into the screw holes, backed-up from the inside with masking tape. I doubt they ever knew how close they came to destroying the top of this guitar - those two screws missed the X- braces by millimeters. The sight gave me a shudder. A screw through one of them at that point would have compromised the structural integrity of the top. But the repair was easy, and solid, and wouldn't even be visible without an inspection mirror and light. Now that there was a flat place to glue the bridge back, and a repaired bridge to put back, it was time for glue and clamps.
Martin didn't start using plastic bindings or purfling inlays until midway through 1932. Note how all the trim here is wood, even the soundhole rosette. Looking around inside these old Martin guitars is just fascinating to me. Those sculpted braces, the kerfed linings, everything inside here is basically untouched for 95 years. There is as much detail inside as outside, really.
Back with finishing touches in a while...
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More detail pictures and a couple with an older sibling, 5-17 T.
*I have no idea what the inscription on the upper bout might mean... it makes no sense as a tuning option. None I can think of. Usually tenor guitars are tuned in fifths. ADGC, with C being the bass, some people tune an octave below mandolin, EADG, with G being bass. I know one guy who tunes like the bottom four strings of a guitar in standard pitch; EBGD.
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Nice!
CFAE - could be the chords to a song, though don't know why you would carve them into your instrument. Could also be the initials of a former owner of the instrument, for instance the Center for Fine Arts Education.
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Very nice. Would love to hear it. It looks warm.
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This sort of work should get you the Presidential Medal Of Freedom, Greg! You are saving our heritage.
Never tried tenor, but have heard of people playing them in tenor banjo tuning, tuned like the high 4 of a guitar, and like the bottom 4.
An owner's initials was my thought, as well, but I was thinking something like Charles Fredrick Alan Erickson.
Peter
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Brother Gregory, you've just got a gift for fixing up these instruments, and it's fascinating to watch the transition back to cool, playable instruments.
'
All the Best, Get Well Soon, and be on the lookout for those breakfast-stealing bears. Remember, biggest grain-weight bullet in your caliber: If they're close enough to smell, what the downrange trajectory is just doesn't matter much.
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It's really been nice... not working on deadlines, just going at whatever pace I feel like. My shop is not air-conditioned, but it is insulated to the nth degree, and situated in a well-shaded area. At night I run a ventilation system that pulls a draft through, and it stays comfortably cool in there all day. I ran a 50 amp circuit out there when we built the shop, in case I ever wanted or needed to put in a bigger fan, or HVAC, but it's fine as-is.
The Martin tenor guitar and banjo-uke went back to Fret Mill Music yesterday, and they sent me a Taylor 314e with a split in the mahogany back. It's a warranty job, as Fret Mill is a dealer for them. Looks like an easy fix... glue, draw-clamp, and probably a cleat or two, depending upon how close the back braces are. I really don't understand why this one cracked unless it dried out.
I took in an upright bass job that I'd postponed since the surgery. This bass got knocked over by a drunk. (allegedly) And it suffered a missing chunk from the upper bout edge. The bridge fell over, the strings released, and somehow... the nut just vanished. Sometimes it's best we don't ask too many questions when these things come in. Fortunately, and almost unbelievably, this wasn't going to be a hard job; fix the drunk-chunk, carve a new nut, touch it up and string it back up. Bill the nice lady conservatively, and judge not. (especially since you already made her wait three weeks)
My friend and mentor Ward Elliott brought me a great little paperback to read while taking breaks. There are some great stories in here... some of the best woodsmiths in the world share their horror stories.
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Finished fixing the missing chunk, and started trying to color-match the patch so it would look better. I refitted the bridge feet to the top, set the soundpost, and restrung the bass. The touch-up continues... it'll never disappear, but it won't be very noticeable either.
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Nicely done!
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My bass customer was really happy with the new nut and the fix on the missing chunk. Got paid, got a little tip, and got a referral.
This Taylor guitar has had me a little bit spooked. The crack in the back had just opened up between two back braces... no impact damage or anything, just a split, and the glue joint to the braces seems to have arrested it. I decided to do nothing but humidify for a couple days, and as of this morning it has swelled enough that I can close it up by pressing. I may let it sit another day or two saran-wrapped up with my 'magic' humidi-box inside, then glue it. Not going to mess with the finish - this model has a satin finish on the back and sides, and no telling what they use for finishing. I bet anything it ain't nitrocellulose. If I'm right, and carefully execute, it will be a very tight repair anyway, you won't even feel it.
I just can't get past the fact that it was cracked at all... and I don't have a lot of confidence that once it returns to normal conditions, that crack won't open again. All I can do is close it, cleat it, and hope the extra bond holds the fibers together. I pre-made three of them from some mahogany... will space these about an inch apart along the crack inside the body, right between the braces.
This one is stressful. How do you upcharge for that? 😄
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...
I just can't get past the fact that it was cracked at all... and I don't have a lot of confidence that once it returns to normal conditions, that crack won't open again ...
This being a warranty repair, and this being a Taylor, should the customer be satisfied with this outcome? Not being critical of you, just wondering why Fret Mill didn't send it back to Taylor. It sounds to me that you're thinking the back is defective and should be replaced (if that's even a possibility; I obviously know nothing of this craft).
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Greg, great repair skills.
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I think what will happen is, Dave, upon a satisfactory repair, (as in the guitar's owner is happy with it) Fret Mill will simply bill Taylor for my labor. I suppose that was preferable to a complete replacement or shipping it cross-country. Store owner has a long-standing relationship with them, been a dealer for them as long as he has been in business, so it was a phone call they could make. Good when they can keep it that way. I think if it opens up again, it will have to go back, as I will have done everything possible from here.
I don't like disappointing anyone, so it's really on my mind that it needs to go right. And I just figured out; I know whose guitar this is... of course with the music scene being what it is around here, the chances were that I wouldn't be more than a degree or two separated anyway... I played bass in a Christmas program with this young lady several times.
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I think what will happen is, Dave, upon a satisfactory repair, (as in the guitar's owner is happy with it) Fret Mill will simply bill Taylor for my labor. I suppose that was preferable to a complete replacement or shipping it cross-country. Store owner has a long-standing relationship with them, been a dealer for them as long as he has been in business, so it was a phone call they could make. Good when they can keep it that way. I think if it opens up again, it will have to go back, as I will have done everything possible from here.
I don't like disappointing anyone, so it's really on my mind that it needs to go right. And I just figured out; I know whose guitar this is... of course with the music scene being what it is around here, the chances were that I wouldn't be more than a degree or two separated anyway... I played bass in a Christmas program with this young lady several times.
Ah; sounds good!
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There ought to be a punch line in this one...
My project for today; repair and touch-up a bullet hole, in a banjo. Some goofball my Ol' Man knows, brought him an Earl Scruggs Signature Gibson, (a very nice banjo) needed some setup, a new fifth-string nut, and... fix a .22 caliber puncture wound through the resonator. Once again, don't ask too many questions. 🤫
I've already fixed it, and working on the 'hide' job now. Didn't overthink this one, just made a simple cork-lined caul to fit against the resonator wall and back, squeezed glue in, and compressed the snot out of it with a cam clamp. I've filled the void with some fine wood dust and epoxy. After it's set, will flush it up and touch it up. Luckily the scar is in the darkest part of the tobacco-burst. You'd have to know where to look to even see the repair on the inside. The outside will require some patience.
PS- that Taylor guitar fix went so slick that I will probably be picking up some more of those jobs. That thing sealed up so tight it was all but invisible. I had to show it to them at the store. Of course you can see the cleats. Only one billable hour, but I got some cred.
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This banjo has not had an easy life. But for sure it has been played, and loved a lot. I've very seldom seen one with this much playing wear in just 25 years. I can't remember fixing a bullet hole either, but I may have. I fixed a hatchet chop in a '55 Martin D-18 once, right between the 8th and 9th frets. I think the lady meant to render it unplayable. Or maybe it was a prank gone wrong. I was too 'fraid to ask.
Anyway, this one went back home yesterday afternoon. You can still see it if you know where to look. But check out that hardware tarnish and play wear at the first position. Earl Scruggs would be proud to know his namesake banjo was played so much.
I'm working on a pair of tenor banjos for the local VA hospital's recreation program today. I'm conflicted on this. They are relatively easy, small jobs... I usually donate my time/labor for the VA, but in this case I am actually working for someone else on behalf of the VA.
Maybe I should just take a day off and think about it?
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I'm glad that you have been able to work in your shop, and get in some stage time, during your recovery. I enjoy doing various repair/rebuild projects, and find it rewarding, though rarely monetarily! If the work is enjoyable, and it's for the VA, I would do the repairs, and take whatever they offer for it. Your call, but it's obvious how much this work moves you. I can't help but think it's helping in your rehabilitation.
Regards,
Pete
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That's a pretty good point, Pete. And it would be easy to just turn in a ticket for half what I actually do, and call it fair 'nuff.
The VA's Recreation Dept. operates without a budget, so anything and everything they do for the folks in there is by donation, from the instruments they have, to the upkeep of them, to bringing in folks to play. A couple-three months ago, they sent me a pre-WW2 Gibson RB-00 banjo, (something a collector would give both eyeteeth for) with instructions that if it could not be repaired that they had to give it to a charity, such as Goodwill. It would have been so easy for anyone to swindle these people if I didn't take that job, that I had to. It was a matter of some fasteners from the hardware store, a new head, a new set of tuning pegs, and a few hours work. They bought the parts and I donated my time. A little while later, I got a card in the mail; they had a Gulf War vet in there, lost his legs to a roadside bomb, been 20 years in a wheelchair and no banjo. He's got a pre-war Gibson to play now, every banjo-picker's dream. And all I had to do was work on it. Which is kind of every banjo-tinkerer's dream.
*that post begins back at the bottom of page 28...
These two on my bench now are not anything like that one was, but they still might bring someone some happiness. I'll think of something. Usually these things come back around somehow.
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This banjo has not had an easy life. But for sure it has been played, and loved a lot. I've very seldom seen one with this much playing wear in just 25 years. I can't remember fixing a bullet hole either, but I may have. I fixed a hatchet chop in a '55 Martin D-18 once, right between the 8th and 9th frets. I think the lady meant to render it unplayable. Or maybe it was a prank gone wrong. I was too 'fraid to ask.
Anyway, this one went back home yesterday afternoon. You can still see it if you know where to look. But check out that hardware tarnish and play wear at the first position. Earl Scruggs would be proud to know his namesake banjo was played so much.
I'm working on a pair of tenor banjos for the local VA hospital's recreation program today. I'm conflicted on this. They are relatively easy, small jobs... I usually donate my time/labor for the VA, but in this case I am actually working for someone else on behalf of the VA.
Maybe I should just take a day off and think about it?
The position of that neck wear makes me wonder if this one is mine.....
Peter (who could just as easily be "Cozmik Cowboy Chords".........)
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Nice job on the bullet hole!
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A pair of Kay 'US Patriot' tenor banjos, ready for return to the VA hospital Recreation Dept. These weren't terribly expensive instruments, but serviceable. Each got a cleaning, a neck angle adjustment, head tightening, and a restringing. One had two stripped tuning machines; I replaced all four with some from my junk parts stash that matched. The other one had a couple pieces of loose binding that had to be reglued... easy stuff to fix.
I love the old-timey stencils on these cases! Nobody goes to that trouble anymore, they just print a label. Y'all didn't know Uncle Sam had a banjo collection, huh? 😄
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Finished up an older Epiphone 12-string, and got it ready to go back. I'm not sure on the year, but I'll guess early/mid 1970's... it's a Made in Japan label, while Gibson was still under Norlin. It is a very overbuilt but still nice guitar. The neck joint is hilarious. When I think about all the tragically collapsed traditional dovetail joints, and this one has about a 5lb block of mahogany with 4 long bolts running all the way through from the back (under that plastic coverplate) holding the neck in a pocket, Fender-style. It may be inelegant, but it's worked perfectly for 50 years.
Oh yeah, what did I do...? Those crazy adjustable bridges Gibson liked so well. The Japanese iteration of it was not standard threads. And this one was missing an adjuster. I had some, from a Gibson J-50, but of course they wouldn't work. My Ol' Man had some taps and dies, so we re-threaded them! After that, just some fretwork and setup, a clean up, and a restringing. As far as 12-strings go, this one is mighty fine. Note the zero-fret. Extra credit there.
I've got a scary one coming up. 2003 Martin, HD-28V... an older vintage series. These had a long bridge saddle, deeply routed out into the bridge wings. This one has cracked, and the front of the bridge is breaking off, the saddle acting like a lever. I'd far rather replace it. Trouble is, This bridge isn't one Martin currently uses, and they don't have any. It will be a good long while before they make a batch run of replacement parts. Fret Mill Music is a Martin Dealer, and my customer bought his guitar new, so technically this would be a covered warranty repair, . Realistically, he just wants it fixed, and not be without his guitar for that long. I think I can turn this one around pretty quick.
I have consulted a couple folks about how to fix this one... working on a plan. I've fixed cracked bridges before, but this one is ugly!
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If I was fixing that bridge, I would fix the cracking, cut down the saddle ends and put some wood in so the saddle doesn't go into the wings; seems it'd be stronger that way...and just having the saddle be that tall seems to court trouble...Tony.
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Given your skill set, greg, wouldn't it be easier to just carve a new bridge rather than try to fix the split one?
Just wondering.
Peter
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I appreciate the props Coz, but scatch-making a bridge is tricky business. I could (theoretically) carve one that would work, from a functional standpoint at least, but would never pass for an OEM bridge for this particular guitar. I just don't have the machine tooling for that kind of work.
I do think it's possible to repair it. I sought the advice of some Martin repair guys over at the UMGF... Brian Kimsey weighed-in downthread and kinda' validated what I had already thought of, and what Tony here in-part suggested too. Brian is super-thorough, highly-respected, and consequentially a very busy dude. There's there usual folks on there who can't accept that anyone else other than the holy trinity of guitar repair ought to be taking on a job like this. And one of the site mods who has some experience too. I got what I needed from the thread, now just trying to decide; do I void this guy's warranty and smoke that bridge off and do it myself, or take it back to the store and them ship it to the nearest authorized repair center for fixing?
Here's the expert advice- https://umgf.com/replacement-bridge-for-hd-28v-t227517.html (https://umgf.com/replacement-bridge-for-hd-28v-t227517.html)
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Gregory, your adventures and remedies are always fascinating.
Side bar questions popped into my head while reading through the UMFG posts. Seems standard practice to use CA/ Super Glue. Are they the same thing? What brand do you use? most importantly- Any tips and tricks on stopping the tube/ container from drying out?
Seems every time I get a tube/ bottle for a job, I get one or two uses out of it before the contents turn to stone.
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Superglue, Krazyglue, and a couple others are brand names of CyanoAcrylate glue, Paul. And yessir, its become commonplace in repair shops as well as in some steps of initial building of instruments anymore.
The product I use is an industrial grade CA glue that comes from... Santa Rosa, California. https://www.caglue.com (https://www.caglue.com) I didn't shop it, or plan it thataway, just coincidence. I buy it locally from a woodworkers supply house, in three different viscosities; thin, thicker, and gel. I also keep a can of accelerant around to cure it instantly when necessary.
It's handy stuff, and will get you out of a tight spot, but will also get you into trouble. A messy, sticky, bunch of hard to clean up, trouble. Ask me how I know. ::)
*to answer your question; don't let air get to it. And you can clean the tips with acetone. Or nail polish remover with high acetone content.
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Funny, how things have a way of flipping... I've had to start limiting my time in the shop on purpose. Now that I have almost unlimited time to spend in there, it was becoming commonplace to be in there more and more, so I had to start looking at it from a business perspective and think of it in terms of how many 'bill-able hours' I spend in there. It's one thing to go up there and just chill out and hang out, think about things... another altogether when I am in there fixing stuff and technically being 'on the clock' for somebody. Which reminds me, I need to get a new battery for the clock.
And honestly, most of what I am working on isn't exciting at all, but I am still enjoying it. Much of what I get in are simple little jobs on moderate-to-low quality instruments that I can make playable in a couple-three hours at $40/hr. + parts and strings. Or I can do a killer setup on your electric guitar or bass for a flat bench fee and you send a set of whatever strings you like. I've gotten a bit of a reputation for being pretty good at specialized setups. Tell me what you want, and I'll park it there. And there is still a good bit of upright bass work that walks in.
I just had to draw a line, and decide... okay, I'll put in 5-6 hours today and lights-out. My hope is that this little test-run is educational enough that when I turn in the keys to the Water Plant next year, maybe I can just pick right back up, if that's what I want to do.
I'm working on that scary HD-28 later today. I have a backup plan if fixing this bridge doesn't work out.
*Here's a sweet little project that I am about to finish; 1916 Gibson A-model mandolin. It needed a refret. And the bridge was glued to the top, in the wrong place, backwards. The best things it had going for it, none of the classic symptoms that usually do these things in; no sinking top, sprung waist, split tailblock... none. Just poorly maintained. Not too bad for 107 years old though. 100% original condition here... all parts present.
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I am about 97% done with the mandolin. The final 3% involves the last little tweaks to the action/setup, which I want to wait a few days on... now that it's been refretted and put under string tension. I just want to let everything acclimate, humidify, stabilize, then make whatever final adjustments that are needed. So far it has settled in very well.
I made a new bone nut for it. This is especially tricky on a mandolin; the strings are in pairs, tuned in unison. If one string slot is deeper than the other, the higher string will note sharper when fretted somewhere on the scale, than its coursed mate. This is critical stuff... these are hateful little things to keep tuned in the first place. To say nothing of how hard they are to play if you don't get the slots cut deep enough. It then becomes like playing an outta' tune egg-slicer. So I took my time, got the nut slots spaced, cut, and filed in. Got the original one-piece non-adjustable bridge refitted to the top, and left it a touch high, to account for any top sinkage that might occur. So far, that's been minimal.
After restringing, I fitted the old original pickguard with some new cork linings, and buckled it back in place. Check out the patent dates... July 4th, 1911 on the clasp, and Mar. 30th, '09 on the pickguard. Was the U.S. Patent Office open on Independence Day?
*evidently July 4th wasn't a paid Federal Holiday until 1938...
I'm conflicted on one last detail. A mid/late 19-teens A-model would have had a blank headstock when it left Kalamazoo. Often these would get a decal or sticker from a dealer or music store that sold them. If they made their way back to Gibson, they'd often be retrofit with a current logo, whatever was going. My 1919 has a white stencil Gibson script commonly seen on 1935-42 guitars. I have a set of "The Gibson" in MOP, (you can see it in one pic) and a more oft-seen in the 20's silver-stenciled applique of "The Gibson", much easier to do and less permanent. I could do either, or neither. I think it needs something up there.
On a personal note, and since we talk wood around here a lot... it's been really interesting to play and compare this little girl to my 1919 A-model in Sheraton brown. The major difference between them other than two years of age is the wood the sides and back are made of. Mine is maple, and this one is birch. Gibson didn't care, at least not enough to even put it in a spec sheet. They typically used maple for the upper-end models, because they got the nicer finish, but my little brown A-model has some quilt figure under that dark varnish. To my ear, the birch-bodied one still has plenty of treble-y sparkle, but a more woody bass. The maple one has a brighter, clearer everything, and projects more. They are night-n-day different, but still share that same thumpy commonality that oval-hole Gibsons all have.
It's been fun bringing this one back.
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Nice work! Cool to see the two of them together.
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Sweet! My dear friend Mick Scott had a 1917 A when I worked with that looked just like yours; one of the best-sounding mandos I've ever heard (though of course some of that was his fingers).
As to being a bear to keep in tune, I'm reminded of a folkie joke:
How long does it take to tune a hammered dulcimer?
Nobody knows........
Peter
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Often dating a Gibson is tough or impossible, for a number of reasons. This one though, made it easy. She has a Factory Order Number ink-stamped into the neck block. That tells when the batch of mandolins this particular A-model was a part of was in the manufacturing process. In this case, F-O-N 3635 was begun in 1916 according to Joe Spann's reference book. The Serial Number which is handwritten on the paper label, and glued in just before shipping tells us when it left the factory. In the case of #37103 here, the best guess based on a couple other known receipts in the Mandolin Archives, is early Spring, 1917.
My brown 1919 A-model has no legible F-O-N, and the Serial Number is late enough that I just assume Ol' Charlie is about 104 now. (namesake of the retired North Carolina State Trooper who I got it from, August 13th, 2010)
See, y'all... this numbers thing is deep-seated in me. ;D
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I've been on strike for a couple days. ;D
Nah, I was just stumped/frustrated with one, had to get away from it a while and start in fresh. This Martin HD-28. Ugh. I have high standards is all. I try to fix people's stuff as if it were mine. I would not want a repaired bridge on a guitar if a new one was an option at all. StewMac claimed to have one. I bought it. Nay... not even close to the correct replacement for this guitar. The bridge wings were too narrow and the pin holes were too far back. So it's going back. (their nqa return policy is great) I scrounged and found another source online for a bridge. It'll be here tomorrow.
But Friday... (sigh)... Friday was just not my day. Ever had one of those deals where you can't fall outta' the boat and hit water? Yeah. I knew it wasn't going to end well if I got hard-headed and stayed on the job, so I put that Martin in its case, cut the lights out and went in the house. Didn't come back up here until this morning.
I pulled it back out, got my heat lamp, deflector shield, seam knives, all ready, and started cooking that ebony chunk. Little by little, it started to let go. Almost two hours and a quart of coffee later the last bit of whatever goo they use finally released it. Here, ladies and gentlemen, is a big part of why this bridge was destined to fail; note the 3/16" border of finish around the bare wood footprint the bridge is supposed to be glued to. Alright, to be honest, I knew that I was going to find this... it's still irritatingly dumb for the maker of fine guitars to overlook something this basic. And in fairness to C.F. Martin & Co. they finally figured out it was dumb too, and corrected the issue.
So, Step 1 safely complete - bridge is removed. Once I've decided on replace or repair, I'll scribe around it and strip this extra finish so that whichever bridge goes back on will stick to the top.
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Another good morning for coffee and sawdust...
I finished up an upright bass setup yesterday evening, doing some final tweaks to the action this morning. I repaired and set this bass up in April, 2019 (it's actually way on back in the thread) The repairs have held just fine, but my customer wanted the bass set up for arco (bow-style) playing, and with ropecore, flatwound strings. They also needed the bridge to have a steeper arch. I maybe could have done it by shimming the bridge feet, and reshaping the crown, but we opted instead for a new adjustable bridge, and to keep the flatter profiled pizzicato bridge for a future reversion.
Fitting an adjustable bridge requires a couple extra steps... one foot at a time. I like to mark where the scale is on my hold-down tape, and a little reminder of the top of the soundpost as another reference point for the treble foot. I also like to leave the soundpost in while fitting a bridge. That tiny little bit of curvature in the top makes a difference.
Nothing really fancy about the rest of it. I still like to finish-sand bridges. I date them in the crotch, and initial them on the back. One extra note about this bass... I think the fingerboard is purpleheart. It isn't rosewood. It isn't walnut either. Whatever it is, it's deep reddish, and mildly flamed. The bass is Czechoslovakian-made.
*and my replacement bridge for the HD-28V came in yesterday's mail... it's rough, but it fits in all the critical dimensions. I have to jig up and rout the saddle slot longer (or do I?) here in a little bit, once I've had a couple thousand volts of caffeine...
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Nice bridgework!
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The upright bass left yesterday, freshly outfitted for arco play, and I took in another vintage Gibson mandolin project, this one for Fret Mill Music.
Gibson during the close of Great Depression, manufactured several budget lines of instruments that could be sold by places other than Gibson dealers. Catalogs like Sears-Roebuck or Montgomery-Ward, sold brand-names like "Oriole", or "Cromwell", you could buy a guitar that for all intents and purposes was an L-00, but said "Recording King" on the headstock, for a fraction of the price. Another of these house brands Gibson made was the namesake of their factorys' home; Kalamazoo, Michigan. There was a full line of "Kalamazoo" guitars, mandolins and banjos, even a mando-bass was available, practically identical to its Gibson counterpart, just... plain.
This one is a KM-11, a very simple mandolin loosely based on the Gibson 'Army-Navy' models of the late-30's/early-40's. They had flat tops and backs rather than more time-consuming carved plates, and with glued-in bracing, much like a miniature guitar. I think every one of the braces is loose in this one. I'll be taking the back off to gain the access needed to fix them. There's no binding on the back, just front bound on these. If I'm careful about the seam separation, it might be just an easy touch-up after the back is glued back on. Gluing the braces will be easy enough with the back off. I'll get into it next week.
I set up my saddle slot routing jig and tried a test-run on a sacrificial bridge. See... there's a fudge factor. The bearing tolerance of a Dremel tool just isn't meant for this kind of precision work. These saddle slots cannot have any slop whatsoever. I actually made this jig years ago, to clamp down to a guitar top, and correct a saddle slot on the bridge of a 70's Martin that notoriously intonated poorly. For this test, I have screwed a bridge to a block, screwed the block down to the bench, then clamped my routing shelf into place. I get it close with a ruler, then tap it with the fret hammer until the router bit traces the slot exactly. Set the depth of cut, mark the length of cut, annnnnnd, hit the switch. It takes an hour to jig up and ten seconds to do. It takes another 15 minutes to chill out. Longer if it goes wrong.
So I asked Ward... what rate do I charge for that?
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In the repair of this HD-28, I have gone through Plans A, B, and C, and a couple offshoots from one of them. I bought no less than three bridges to replace the cracked original. Not a one of them would work. I did not discover that the last one would not work until late last night, when I was just about to glue it to the guitar. As a matter of habit, I always dry-clamp first, make sure all my cauls and clamps fit exactly right. When I slipped the new bridge down the two threaded rods in pin holes 1 & 6, they sprung outward. I had just wasted two hours modifying a bridge saddle slot and it turned out that the pinholes are drilled for 2-1/4" spacing, not the 2-1/8" spacing required. I said every dirty word I could string together, and went in the house.
I stewed about it well into the night. I could have made it work. It would have been even more work, AND, AND, AND, the outer strings would have fallen very close to the edge of the fingerboard up the neck. Mathematically it could have still worked with just adding 1/16" of an inch on either side. But then I got wallowed out holes in the bridgeplate to deal with. More swearing. Colorful, but less thoughtful or blasphemous.
So this morning a half-a-pot of bean-juice in, I went back to Plan A, and just fixed the original. You'll have to forgive me not documenting the job... I just had to get it done. I pried the crack open, and flooded the slot, crack, and all with thin CA Glue, then clamped it down in both directions; front-to-back, and top-to-bottom. After that, it was a matter of clean-up, and polishing. Moment of truth came, and I tried the saddle in the slot - absolutely perfect fit. I had to tug it back out with my tiny Channelocks.
After that, Titebond and a twist of the Sloan bridge clamps. Plenty of squeeze-out. This dadgum Martin is going to leave here tomorrow, fixed. And here's the plus for my customer. If this thing cracks again, (and I don't think it will) they can still have it replaced under warranty.
Probably too early, but I am already doing a [happy-dance].
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There are some projects that I hate to see leaving, and others I am just kinda' lukewarm on, glad to get paid for and made somebody happy, but don't really miss 'em. And then there's that one... I can't wait to see it go. But in fairness to the guitar, it was some my fault, and a lot it's parent company. I was thwarted from the get-go, unable to get a suitable replacement part unbelievably not available from Martin, followed by three more online tries and fails, and still saved it.
It is a mighty good-sounding vintage-spec HD-28... that's all I got to say about that. I'm outta' here for the weekend. Kalamazoo mandolin disassembly on Monday morning.
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Congrats; looks great!
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Arco action is set higher?
Do you sand the bridge up/ down or left/ right?
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Not so much higher for this guy, Paul, but he needed more arch (radius) in the bridge for playing with the bow. When I originally set this bass up for pizzicato style play, with ropecore tapewound strings, I had cut the bridge to match the arc of the fingerboard, including the Romberg E bevel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Romberg (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Romberg)
(there's your reading assignment for today). So after switching to the chromesteel flatwounds and playing with the bow, if driving the bow hard, he would often be hitting 3 strings at once, as the G, D, and A laid so close the same plane. Giving it a steeper arch creates more separation on them, without too much difference in action. The adjustable bridge was a preference, but lets him tweak that even more to his liking.
When fitting the feet; I scrub them longitudinally... longways, with the grain, to start with. It really matters most that they fit exactly, and make maximum contact with the top. A bit of side-to-side action just to check will sometimes help, sometimes creates a convex surface on the foot. The tops of basses are all unique. Some of them have sunken places right above the soundpost, where the bridge necessarily sits in a 'dished' spot. It's really tough to fit one there. All part of the job. I take all that in when a bass is on my bench.
I just bought a new tool to speed up the process of fitting bridge feet. It's an oscillating spindle sander. This thing will be pre-shaping the bridge feet right off the bandsaw table. I can sand right to a cut line, all while keeping the new bridge back perfectly 90° vertical. I haven't even used it in practice yet, just played with it some... (you can see here how it looks when running on a junk bridge, and at rest on a new one) but I can tell already it's going to save me at least a half-hour, maybe forty-five minutes on each bass. By the time it gets through, there will be very little fitting left to do on the bass itself... just the final fit.
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😎
I have recognized that bevel before. Now I know the history and the function of it. Very impressive.
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Making progress on the KM-11...
Not sure what I expected to see inside... probably lateral bracing or some variation on fan or finger bracing, but I did not expect it would be braced like a miniature flattop guitar. That's exactly what it is though.
The back had been glued and reglued in several places, so it was tough coming off, but I got it with all the kerfing intact. If I had to do it again, I would have sawed it off, especially through the neck and tail blocks. It fits back together nice though.
I've closed the two long cracks in the back, and reglued all the braces. Added some extra backing to those longitudinal splits. They had been open for a very long time, and each individual piece had dried and contracted, so not a perfect, seamless grain fit. I've got a couple more little fill-ins to do, and then we'll glue the back back onto this one tonight... setup tomorrow.
I'm running out to make a house-call today... and look at a Martin D X-series guitar today, that I'm told suffered a fall. These are solid-top guitars with an HPL (High Pressure Laminate) side and back material. I have no idea what to glue that stuff with. It's almost like a wood-grain formica. In conversation, the guy tells me, it was his first guitar, so he really, really, wants to fix it. We'll see what we can do.
More later.
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As the evening sun sets outside the window over my small workbench... glue is setting on the reassembled Kalamazoo.
I have some reading-up to do on repair of HPL guitars. I accepted this Martin DX-1, partly for the challenge. And Fret Mill Music gave me a classical guitar for a bridge reglue. I might jump it first.
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Looks like a group effort.
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😄
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Taking a little break from the Scroll Shop today. I worked yesterday afternoon, late into the evening to make up for time missed Friday, and my lack of availability tomorrow.
I got the classical guitar bridge job done, (gang-of-three effort here...) and restrung it for the guys. They hate restringing classical guitars down there. It's tedious and time-consuming, but I kinda' like it. If it was easy, every knucklehead would be doing it. Gluing a classical bridge back on is a little bit trickier. Unlike a steel-string guitar, where my jig has two threaded rods that go through pin holes 1 and 6 to keep the bridge from squirming around under the clamps, the classical bridge doesn't... their strings are tied on, in a slipknot kind of way. So I fit two little guide pins to the underside of the bridge (pieces of wood toothpicks work great for this...) and use cork-lined cauls inside and outside to maximize clamping pressure between the bridge and top. 24 hours of cure time, same as any other.
And the Kalamazoo mandolin is strung up too. I have just a bit of dark brown varnish still drying where I touched up around the edges of the seam where the back is glued on (remember, no binding there...) but I'll rub that out tomorrow before returning it to the store. It's playable, which were my instructions. It could be better if someone bought it and wanted to put more into it. I would just enjoy for what it is, a fun little chording mandolin.
The Martin DX-1 is next... I'll probably jump it Tuesday or Wednesday. I've discovered in addition to the hole in the HPL, it has some more seam separation and it has some loose braces too.
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They hate restringing classical guitars down there. It's tedious and time-consuming, but I kinda' like it. If it was easy, every knucklehead would be doing it.
Being an Eagle Scout, I know how to tie a timber hitch in my sleep, so the bridge end is a snap; but slotted headstocks - for whatever kind of strings - are a serious cause of buttockal agony.......
I eagerly await seeing what elegant fix you come up with for that broken piece of counter-top veneer.
Peter
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That's a nice looking classical guitar.
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It was a pretty nice one, Dave. And a fairly easy repair too. Often I'll triage that kinda' job to the front; something I can get on/off my bench in less than a day, and out the door... that classical guitar for instance, took longer to restring than to actually perform the repair. They do get some cool stuff in at Fret Mill, and enough of a regular clientele that walk in weekly or monthly that Ken's stayed in business for almost 45 years in downtown Roanoke. I like my unofficial 'fixit guy' position there.
I got into the Martin D-X yesterday evening, just some front work. I marked a cutline with a straightedge, and set up the Dremel router base with a downcut spiral carbide bit. Simply traced my cutline as close as possible, and popped out the broken pieces. Followed up with a fine file to true up the straight edge and clean the top of the kerfed lining. I'm stacking layers of veneer with a thicker maple core in opposing directions and making a piece to fit right back over this, hopefully with the grain of the Sapele veneer disguising the original mishap somewhat. I'll need to fabricate some kind of shelf to glue to along the cutline as well... something acting like cleats would in a wood repair. I may even use the broken out pieces for this...
The HPL is basically a formica; a very thin veneer of wood laminated to a base of paper, impregnated with a phenolic resin. So regular Titebond won't do, this will take epoxy or CA to stick. I need to pick up some acetone. In my reading-up on this one, the best advice has been that the HPL won't be affected by acetone, so clean-up will be easy. Again, I have a couple scrap pieces to practice on.
I'm off to see the Sisters of No Mercy first thing this morning, (physical therapy) then up to the Shop.
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All the loose seams between sides and back are glued-up and tight now. I have loose-fit the patch to the hole. It fits the cutline, and is close to the edge, leaving just a bit to trim off. I still need to devise a way to 'back it up' along the cutline. It will glue to the kerfing just fine. The outer edge of these X-series guitars is a simple 45° bevel. I'll probably do that last.
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MUCH nicer than the part you cut out!
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REALLY appreciate this thread.
So fun how you provide such nice photos documenting your procedure(s).
Thank YOU.
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still need to devise a way to 'back it up' along the cutline.
Would I be silly to ask why not a cleat the length of the cut, half its width glued to the original chrome dinette top, leaving the other half to be glued to the patch?
Looking really good thus far.
Peter
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That's probably what I'll do, Coz, or some variation on that. I may even use the piece that was cut out to make a big rectangular cleat. The back has a very slight curvature, so I need the patch to bend and conform to it. It's thin enough that it should with no trouble.
The shop thread is just my outlet, guys. I've been off work all Summer on rehab from this operation. And when I do go back I'll basically be running the clock out, using up leave time and maybe training one last class of Operators. I am giving some thought to turning my shop into a part-time job after I leave public service next year, just to offset the cost of hc insurance. I think it works out mathematically, with the steady flow I'm getting. I wanted to test myself this Summer to see if I had the discipline to do it, 4-5 days a week, but not 7, and not 8-10 hrs/day. I try to limit myself to 3-4 hours at a time. And it's a daily challenge to get better at things, try to outsmart some of these crazy jobs. It's also been educational trying to figure out the economic side. Always before, the shop was my little side-hustle for when I had time, and I could just make up a number that covered my bottom line and fixed somebody's stuff. Now I need to actually make something.
This Martin for instance; this guitar could be replaced for about $750 new. My bill has to be something negotiable between that, and reality. I'll have about 4-6 hours in it, and supplies, plus a set of strings. My customer will have a playable guitar that was a Christmas gift 23 years ago. What's that worth to them? I've never been comfortable putting a value on that, but I have had to start putting some to my time. It's harder than I thought, but I'm getting it. I'm starting to realize that most people, (this guy, for example) are really glad to have their stuff fixed.
*Before I quit yesterday evening, I glued one end of the loose X-brace... got to use my Stew-Mac brace jack. (guitar is topside-down in the picture)
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...annnnd the other loose end of the X-brace, glued-up and clamped. I've got a cam clamp and a couple cork-lined caul blocks on the outside of the box to give the scissor-jack inside something solid to push against. The old-school turnbuckle brace jack at the furthest end of the brace was really hard to reach, but necessary. It'll be a good trick getting it outta' there this morning too.
Next, I'll be fitting the fabricated patch piece over the hole in the back, and start the touch-up process.
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My .02.
A Craftsman that has tooling for taking on and successfully repairing acoustic instruments Professionally deserves a decent base hourly rate.
Would be inclined to believe that most of your customers would:
1) gladly pay more to have their instrument cared for by you
2) continue to refer others to your shop
There is (in my eyes) beaucoup value to taking a loved instrument (regardless of value - an instrument that has served the user well and that every ding and ripple is familiar) to a small dedicated Craftsman repair person instead of some big box store.
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I second Paul's thoughts. Just to give you a ball park, a quick Google shows me that 3rd Coast in Chicago charges $40 for a restring; $60 if it's a 12-string, and $110 for fitting a bridge to an archtop. They want $600 to reset an unbound dovetail neck (add $50-100 for binding). Of course, Austin McKee in Ottawa, IL will doe the reset for $175........
Peter
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I could not with a straight face charge $40 for a restring; at work we charge $20 and that includes the strings...it only takes a few minutes, don't gouge just because someone doesn't know how (or is lazy...)
I like that brace jack, been a few times i coulda used that...Tony.
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I could not with a straight face charge $40 for a restring; at work we charge $20 and that includes the strings...it only takes a few minutes, don't gouge just because someone doesn't know how (or is lazy...)
I like that brace jack, been a few times i coulda used that...Tony.
Yeah - my own inclination on that one would be "Roll me a doob and I'll teach ow to do it; it's fun & easy!"
Peter
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Fret Mill Music charges $12-20 for restringing, more for the 12-strings or mandolins, I think is the policy. Strings are extra, and you can pick whatever you want in there, Ken carries a full spread of what's hot. If they aren't too busy, the guys will do it for you while you are in there... just hang out and play something. It's a fun part of the music store experience. Fret Mill is situated in an old-old building on the City Market Square in downtown Roanoke, with wood board floors. It sounds great in there. (it's actually known historically as "The 1893 Building")
The $40/hr. they charge for labor is when something comes in for repair. They don't count restringing as that, but if I'm going to need strings to finish out a repair job, then I pick up a set of the customer's choice, and just note them on the ticket, no upcharge. I guess technically, they are paying me labor for restringing, but I can put a set of strings on a guitar in a flash on my workbench, so the amount of time spent is insignificant.
I got busy with other things yesterday, but I did get this little piece shaped and glued in. That provides a little shelf... a backing of something solid along that long cutline to stick the fabricated patch to. I'll use epoxy for this, both for its work time and flexibility. The patch will stick to the kerfed linings with regular wood glue, wood-to-wood. Probably do it in two stages.
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I finally glued and clamped the patch into place this morning, and then after the clamps came off, trimmed it to final fit this afternoon. I've carefully finish-sanded it, and applied a wash of red mahogany stain, and a couple coats of brushed lacquer. I'll build up a couple more this weekend, and then wet-sand and rub out to something roughly the sheen of the HPL. It's kind of a textured matte finish.
Yabba-dabba-doo! (I'm mostly playing guitar this weekend, rather than working on them...)
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Looking good.
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And to think you had SO many choices!
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And to think you had SO many choices!
Well, wadda ya know? I clearly recall going down to the New Concord (pop. ~800) train station to pick up the new Sears & Roebuck chrome dinette set - but it's taken me about 60 years to find out it was in Skylark pattern (the beige version)!
Peter (who will now have Zappa in Deutsche in his head all day - and that's a good thing)
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I remember that pattern! Was it a kitchen table? The countertop?
I went up to the shop to check on the D1-X project yesterday, and was fairly pleased with the results. I'll restring it today, watch it for a day, and return it to my customer one day this week. I'll have about 6 hours and a set of strings in this one by the time it's in tune and in the case.
Not bad... if this was my guitar, I'd be okay with the fix. It will always be an obvious repair, but it is solid and thoughtful. I'm told this guitar was a Christmas gift.
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It was the table - and the upholstery on the chairs.
Peter
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Very nicely done, Greg.
Though I can't help but think that material with the Martin name on it must have Stuart Mossman whirling like a dervish.......
Peter
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Yeah, as much of a C.F. Martin & Co. cheerleader as I am, I am not too impressed with these.
Here is what I will say though; I had about as positive of an experience as possible with their Customer Service Dept. this go-'round. Even though they really couldn't help me me, they did try. The nice girl took my phone number and email, and checked with the Factory on what I had, and called me back later in the afternoon. These X-series guitars are not made in Nazareth, PA. anymore, they are built in the Navojoa, Mexico factory. So they simply don't have any scrap of the HPL here. She did tell me an authorized repair shop could source a complete HPL back for replacement. That would honestly have exceeded the guitar's replacement value, especially if I got into having to re-install kerfed linings, and bracing. She sent me links. I sent her a 'Thank-You' note in reply, and meant it. My last experience (trying to get a replacement bridge for that 🤬 HD-28V) was much less pleasant, and even less successful.
The purist in me might not love the countertop stuff for guitar-making, but to tell you all the truth... the dadgum thing sounds good. And plays like a dream. I can't really take any credit for that beyond flattening the top back out by getting the x-brace secured back to the soundboard. That's just basic structure stuff that had to be done. So I can conclude that that it is at least a very stable platform. 23 years, and the action is dead-on perfect.
I am taking another nice day off out of the shop. I may go up there this evening and straighten up things a bit. I'm front-porchin' it today - with a Gibson. 😏
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Yeah, materials can surprise; my first and still main guitar is a 1979 Alvarez 5014 - think 000-18 with 28 trim, but all laminate. The lead player in my son's high school band has been trying get me to trade straight up for his Martin D-1 for 23 years. Unsuccessfully.
Lead player in the last band I did sound for has compared it favorably - or at least equally - to his Larivée. A plywood guitar that has fans; imagine that!
And they ain't nothin' wrong with a nice Gibson whatsomeever.
Peter
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I agree with Peter; very nicely done!
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It was rainy and cold here yesterday, so I had a little shop clean-up day. Nothing too involved... but it was starting to get a little bit cluttered in there. I am used to things being right where I usually keep them, and where I usually keep them was getting harder to find. As usual, when I swept the floor, I found a few items that I had given up searching for in the sawdust of the past few months. And I must have changed a thousand sets of strings.
I stopped by Fret Mill Music today and visited, picked up two more fairly easy repair jobs. Went upstairs and looked at a trio of really interesting guitars I'm thinking about taking on. They were made by a very gifted luthier up in West Virginia, who was a coal miner by trade. He built several hundred flattop Dreadnought guitars in his life. There are three, in various states of disrepair and disassembly there, and I need to triage them to see what it would take to restore them to playable. I'm about out of time on this medical hiatus, but there ain't no hurry on these... they've been there for years. I'll take a couple pictures when I drop off these two little quick jobs.
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I already finished up the setup & restringing of a banjo for Fret Mill, and started on a fairly simple seam separation reglue of a British-made "pineapple-style" tenor ukulele. This is an interesting one... the maker put this little tag, in fine calligraphy inside;
Made from ancient bog oak, 5300 years old. Fenslands, England.
*Perhaps Jazzyvee might have heard of this maker? Not far from Birmingham.
**in case someone else was curious about what bog oak might be- https://www.wood-database.com/bog-oak/ (https://www.wood-database.com/bog-oak/)
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Really cool.
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I couldn't sleep, so just got up, made coffee and came up here to the shop. I knocked the clamps off the King ukulele and tuned it back up. I'll take it, and the banjo back to the store either this afternoon or tomorrow.
The Scroll Shop is clean. The workbenches are empty. Time to shut it down again and go back to public service... and finally finish out things there. About this time next year, I'll start working on the next 30 years. Maybe it'll be up here, doing this again, or maybe this will just be a fun pastime. I still have a couple weeks off, but I really need to do a few things around the house. Plus there's physical therapy yet to finish out.
I've had a good time up here this Summer though. The shop gave me something to do, something to get up for every day, something to think and solve little wooden problems. I'll miss the daily experience of it.
Thanks for all the questions and kind words guys.
Lights-out. *click*
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People who completely retire and “shut it down” have a tendency to not last very long. Those who have a passion, avocation, or some activity to get up for each day and keep their minds and bodies active, are much more likely to live long fulfilled lives. My father-in-law and mother-in-law are 90 and 91. He retired as an Assistant High School principal 32 years ago but is an avid baseball fan, stills plays tennis several times a week, swims, rides his bike and runs. They live on their own with no support needed, drive themselves to wherever they want to go and are still as sharp as tacks cognitively. With your avocation, I fully expect to be reading interesting tidbits about the instruments you are repairing and restoring many years from now in your scroll shop musings and predict you’ll be still be contributing to the music community in your area of the country 25 to 30 years from now.
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I envy your nice workshop. Mine is still only half-operational after almost THREE years since moving...I never have time to focus on getting it there and it's quite a bit smaller than the old one...oh well, one day...Tony.
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I've never seen myself as the stereotypical retired guy, who played golf and whatever... or just sat down and watched the grass grow. I have always imagined that I'd be doing something useful, and assumed I'd do something in public water systems, but after the past few years, I'm kinda' burned out on the whole public service thing, and I'm just ready to disassociate from that. I really can't say any more about it without breaking rules. It just ain't what it used to be.
So what do I do? Cause I need to do something to offset the cost of insurance. I can be selective about it, and it doesn't necessarily need to be BIG $$$. On the other hand, it'd be nice if it was.
I think the shop could probably bring in enough money, if (and this is a BIG IF) I learned how to run it. Also, I would have to set it up as a legitimate business. Last time I tried that, (15 years ago) the County made a stink about it, from a couple different angles. So I'd have to go argue with them about that stuff. It's been long enough that I don't remember what all the roadblocks were.
It has crossed my mind more than a few times, that I could easily return to playing music, at least semi-professionally. The bluegrass festival circuit runs from March to November, with a few off-season gigs. Most of the time, you work Friday and Saturday, with travel on Thursday and Sunday. I haven't 'done the road' for over 25 years now, but there's quite a few kids my age still doing it. And I still have a few contacts.
Either way, I'll always have the shop up here, open for a project. And that may be how I spend some of that unused paid leave this year... finishing up a few half-done things. I have a steel-bodied National guitar that got run over by a Chrysler, so needed a new neck. (miraculously, the body and cone survived) There's a Turner/Garcia-inspired 'Peanut' guitar that Bro. Elwood was advising me about. An 1870's carved-top Gamba-style double-bass I had design on a 5-string conversion. And parts enough to build four more banjos. Plenty to do that I just never had time.
But for now, it's time to get back to work sending water down the pipes... the last set is about to start.
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Two things, Greg:
1) Oh, heck yes fix those WV guitars!
2) You left out a very important piece of info: How does a 5300-y-o-bog-oak pineapple sound??? Inquiring ears want to know!
Peter (who had always planned to spent his retirement hiking, camping, finally learning how actually play these fool things, and try learning to build some - but instead is trying to moderate his deterioration to the point he can care Her in Hers...........)
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Possible Future Projects; West Virginia Guitars, by Scott Mills
I had my 'return-to-duty' meeting with the braintrust at work yesterday morning... mostly hashing out what, exactly my short balance of time in that establishment might be best spent doing. I did them the biggest favor I could by cashing-out the maximum amount of paid leave that payroll allows in a calendar year, which got me down to a more manageable three weeks to take this year. To manage what's left, and what I accrue, starting January 1st, I'll be at work about three weeks of each month until Dec. 1st of '24. So the point was, every day needs to be well-spent on something and not wasted.
Afterward, I stopped by Fret Mill to drop off a fiddle and guitar, both that had been easy setup and restringing jobs. Minor seam separation on the fiddle. Some fretwork on the guitar.
While there, I went upstairs to take another look at those Scott Mills guitars. All three are major projects, but I think well worth doing. The soundboxes themselves are structurally sound, not a single crack anywhere in them. One has a chunk missing from underneath the bridge footprint. Two are missing their necks, and I see why... as well as these are built, the neck joint is weak, and completely inaccessible after assembled. The only one with a neck needs a reset, which is basically impossible, given the construction. The good; the bodies are beautiful walnut, with Appalachian red spruce tops. All the binding and purfling, even the pickguards are wood. The finish is a nice thin nitrocellulose lacquer, aged, but not checked to pieces. They are really something to see. All three are hand signed and dated in 1983.
If I take these on (free or very cheap) they'll get new necks, set in a routed mortise, and bolted in. I have two of Scott Mills' necks to go by here, and I think approximating his original design in retrofit is entirely do-able. I just don't have time now.
Here's a couple pictures of the trio.
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Details of Scott Mills' guitar #1...
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Here's Mills #2-
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And #3-
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I talked to Ken this week, gave my thoughts about restoring the Mills guitars. He says whenever I am ready, give it a rip.
Last weekend's project was a repair; cracked X-brace on this Asian import (rather loose) copy of a Martin HD-28. The laminated, and skeleton-ized bracing was interesting. Note how each brace is made with two pieces of spruce with a center core of rosewood (or something) sandwiched between them, then a series of oval holes bored through them. To reduce mass? Increase resonance? All I can attest to is, it's a big ol' pain in the butt getting glue out of them after squeeze-out, and before clamping. A wet cotton swab did the trick. This was the first one of these Crossroads guitars I have seen. Sounded okay.
This weekend's project is a Strad-O-Lin mandolin... I think a Harmony make. Easy fix... couple seam separations to glue up, clean up, setup, restring. Probably finish tomorrow and have it back to the store Monday.
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Always appreciate your posts.
The back of the Crossroads headstock is unique. Their bracing looks fancy. I thought acoustics guitar bridges were typically glued; are those threaded ‘screws’ in that one picture holding the bridge in place?
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A good many Gibson guitar bridges were glued, and screwed down, Paul... and came that way. They would hide the screw heads under decorative pearl dots. (see my J-35 and LG-2 bridges below...)
C.F. Martin & Co. never adopted this practice, though quite a few Martin bridges got fastened this way later in life. I've got a little plastic drawer in the shop of machine screws and nuts, removed from guitars over the years.
I think what you see on the Crossroads headstock is that diamond-shaped volute... it's a carryover from Martin Style 28/41/45, though they exaggerated it somewhat. The volute (for Martin) is vestigial. Back in the old days, their headstock was a second piece grafted on, and the arrow/diamond volute (which really is not a volute) strengthened and backed the joint.
Here ya' go- https://vintagemartin.com/volutes.html (https://vintagemartin.com/volutes.html)
*volutes, to violin-makers, are an entirely different thing. (Ward would want me to clarify that...)
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So, not only a loose ripoff of a Martin design, but a loose ripoff of Alvarez's logo.
I have seen the drilled bracing on some high-end guitar; I disremember the builder. His theory is to keep strength while increasing resonance. Never playe done, so i can't comment on the efficacy.
Peter
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Y'know, I didn't even catch that logo, Coz.... haven't worked on an Alvarez in a good long while, but you are correct; it could be a take on their mirror-image "A" art, not as much the "YA" Yairi ones. I don't know if it was intended or not. It's very angular and plain in comparison.
https://alvarezguitars.com/why-alvarez/
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I had to look back through the thread to see if I even posted about this one... I did, a few posts back, but the day-gig is burning up all my brain power, and I simply can't do this and that too. At risk of sounding whiney, my Water Treatment Plants are a disaster. I've been 20 very long days back on the job trying to untangle the dorked-up mess that resulted from my 16 weeks outta' there. Another 4 weeks, (that I was supposed to be off) and I really don't know if a few things could be saved.
Anyway, the Scroll Shop... I just don't have the energy for it at night, so only weekends now.
The Strad-O-Lin. It was an easy fix/touch-up, setup and restringing job for Fret Mill Music. Turned out really nice. I took it back to the store this week. And I picked up a couple more jobs; a Pisgah Banjo Co. Dobson-style 5-string, needing some capo spikes installed, and an Art & Luthierie 12-string guitar needing a bridge reglue.
Pisgah Banjo Co. makes really nice, traditional oldtyme banjos on 1800's patterns. They're out in Western North Carolina (not too far from Dave) and got an interesting backstory. https://www.pisgahbanjos.com (https://www.pisgahbanjos.com) This one is walnut, with an aluminum spun-over shell, and brass hardware. Super-nice, top-shelf banjo.
Art & Lutherie, is a Canadian build. They made the Seagull brand guitars too. All solid wood, sustainable sources, and CNC'd parts. It's a decent little guitar. Bridge is just lifting on the back corner.
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Interesting banjer; never seen one with metal on it like that.
And I will add that Art & Luthierie & Seagull (like Simon & Patrick) are sub-brands of Godin.
Peter
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... Pisgah Banjo Co. ...
They're on the other side of town from me; about 28.5 miles or so. Backstory video was nice.
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On a grey, dreary weekend... looking out the window of my Scroll Shop, pondering things. I really need to get back to work on this week's projects for the store. But it's cool if I just sit here another hour or two. Maybe go for a walk before we get another (much-needed) shower.
Friday marked a milestone. Precisely one year by Virginia Retirement System's records, my life sentence is up. What started in October of 1988 will end on December 1st, 2024. I could go before then. I'll effectively be done working before then, that's just the 'official' date. I did the math on it (which was both depressing and stupid, because there's no way it'll actually work out like this) and I will actually only be on-duty for 168.5 days next year. That's provided I use all the paid leave and holidays before "turning in my keys". The plan is to take the week off following a week/weekend I am on stand-by duty. That'll burn up four days a month by itself, and essentially I'll be working the other three weeks. Obviously I won't be able to do that every month, so some months, I'll take two weeks off. And burn a few banked holidays in between too. If we get up to about August or September and there's still a pile of unused leave. Well... at that point I will move to phase four, (push the 🔴) and use it all at one time.
All this scheming and planning is the long way of saying; I am most likely going to open the shop as a business before the fiscal year starts. It'll already be in motion when I mark WQ-413 out-of-service for the last time.
Back to work. Projects await...
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Greg,
All this is a lot to contemplate. I turn 60 in March, and can retire with moderate penalties. Financially I will be fine. What's going to keep my hands occupied, is another story. It's obvious you love to do the repair work. If you can add a little $ towards your pension, that's even better. It's not really work, if you enjoy doing it. If it was all about the money, most of us here could sell all our instruments, and associated paraphernalia, and have a bigger nest egg. Not going to happen here, or probably with any of you. Just do whatever you find enjoyable. The best part of being retired will be the ability to do what you want, when you want, timeclock be damned!
Best wishes on whatever you chose. I'm glad you are on the mend, and playing again.
Regards,
Pete
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One thing few folks consider is the end of “work stress.” Especially if you were an “on call” or emergency call out. You’ll sleep better at night too. Enjoy.
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Greg, your post makes me think of my brother in law who is able to retire, but is worried because his job is his only social outlet; He's a year away, too. I'm starting to take less and less work now, but have my wonderful wife to keep me busy. Your luthiery skills are enviable, and what a great outlet for you, and you can still play out. My brother had a year left and bailed early.
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Thanks fellas. I've been thinking about this and weighing options for a good long while now. I plan to keep my Virginia Waterworks liscense current for at least one more term, but unless I am doing something in the field I will probably let it expire in 2027. I'm just ready to go do something else. Other than the short stint in music, and the side-hustles peripheral to it, I've worked in Public Service Utilities my entire adult life. And really, given my health, I don't need the physicality of this gig anymore. The late-night phone calls, the long days, the short nights. 32 years is enough... it's time to move on.
I'm not allowed to post much about my job on social media, and I while I don't participate in any platforms of it other than music-related discussion forums, (this one and two more) they say it still counts. So I can't really get into all my reasoning for checking out. And... It ain't over yet. This is not going to be a nice easy coast to the finish. There won't be any big party. No fanfare, no hubbub at all. Chances are, outside the immediate group I deal with daily, no one will even know when my last day was... I just won't be there at the next company function. Next year at the awards luncheon, they'll put up grainy picture from my ID badge, and someone from management who never knew me, will announce that I retired with blah-blah-blah, and a golf clap will clatter through a room full of people who never heard of me either, and that'll be it. Almost everyone I came up through the ranks with is either already gone, and sad to say, a bunch already passed on. There is no one left from "the old days" but me.
2024 has the hallmarks of being a very hard last year. But I don't plan to slow down or slack off... when I leave, you can bet your ass there'll be an Ed of H shaped hole in the wall where I left the building. Somebody might wonder about that one day.
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I hear ya. When I “retired” I was burning up my vacation when I heard from a colleague that I had been replaced with a Croatian (works cheaper) Chief Engineer. A YEAR after I left, someone in management ask where I was….another employee told him I probably retired. A fitting end…..management wondering where I was. I was 45, and receive a monthly pension check for the rest of my life. Have been retired now 18 years and still don’t need to supplement my income.
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It's not much different at public universities. To honor my 35-years of teaching and service at the UMN (which they didn't do until I had 37 years of service at the University because someone forgot) I was given a pen...that didn't work! I'm still pestered by the University every once in a while to select "commemorative merchandise" from the University "bookstore" (they don't' sell books there anymore, it's all electronic) to commemorate my 15, 20 , 25, & 30th anniversaries. However, I've got enough coffee mugs and sweatshirts with goofy looking gophers on them (Yes, University's mascot is a "Golden Gopher) to last me for a lifetime. When I retire though, they'll probably have to carry me out of my office, as i honestly wouldn't know what to do with my time and at my age there only so much cycling, skiing and playing guitar one can do.
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Back in the day, when we'd work the CaBooze, we'd stay at the Campus Gopher Motel; sign was a large pole with that critter sitting atop.
Yes, we made many an obscene comment about it.......
Peter
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I have stayed at that motel.
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So you are all speaking of the Motel on 4th street about 3 blocks from the University with the butt ugly Gopher sign. Well, the sign is gone as is the Motel which is now the much classier (if in name only) University Inn. However the area around the University has changed for the worse with the old houses students used to live in and could afford mowed down and replaced by expensive high rise apt. (for MN at least i.e., 5-6 stories tops). The unique used bookstore as well as the record store have closed as have Grays restaurant, Mama's, the Kitty-Kat Club and several unique coffee houses. All have been replaced by national franchises Starbucks, Potbelly, Target etc. And the place has become dangerous not just after dark but mid-day. Two people lost their lives at a tobacco store on Sunday morning due to gun play.
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Thought you all might like to see the cool little place I've been doing repair/setup work for. I mention Fret Mill Music a lot, but here it is... an old-school storefront in downtown Roanoke. The building is called "The 1893 Building" for a rather unimaginative reason. Ken has run a music store here (and next door too, for a few years) since 1979. The main sales floor is on the ground level, upstairs is a stockroom and a little workshop I sometimes use, the top floor has a teaching studio, and on occasion hosts an artist's workshop for C.F. Martin & Co. or Taylor programs.
I just stopped in to drop off and pick up work this snowy afternoon.
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That place looks nice. How does the workshop compare to your place?
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That place looks nice. How does the workshop compare to your place?
I much prefer my shop, Paul... I like the solitude and familiarity of home base. It's nice though. I'll snap a couple pics upstairs sometime. I use it for a quick job; say, fit a set of bridge pins, or filing a nut... something where I need a bench for 10 minutes, but don't necessarily need to take an instrument all the way to my place to turn it around. After I hang it up for good at the Water Plant, I may avail myself of the convenience of working in there more. Maybe a schedule of certain days of the week to be the in-house tech. We'll see how that goes.
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So7nds like a great retirement plan. 🙂
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Nice pics of the shop. The exterior of the building looks nice and cared for.
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I haven't posted much from my shop lately, mostly because... well... most of what I'm working on these days isn't really all that interesting. I've got a nice, steady supply of work from the store that I can depend on, and that's a very good thing. But it isn't glamorous. Most of what I'm working on is daily-grind kind of work. Trying to make things playable or at least presentable. Leveling frets, filing nut slots, shimming bridge feet... all in a day's work. It is extremely relaxing, and I look forward to working in there more often.
This one gave me a smile this weekend. It's a mail-order catalog banjo, probably turn of the last century. (early 1900's) I was basically trying making a wall-hanger into as playable of an instrument as possible without blowing a budget of X$. I get that a lot... repair exceeds value of subject. But hey, that's their call.
Anyway, part of getting this one up-n-running was a new head. Replacing it was easy, just time-consuming... look at all those bracket-shoes! The old calfskin head was dry-rotted and shrunk, unfortunately. I found the name penned inside it- "BUCK COLLINS". It was common practice for people used to write their name inside like this, but the name was the coincidence. Several years ago, my good buddy (more like a brother) Tony Collins used to prank folks with this costume he carried around. It was a dirty old tank top from Cape Hatteras N.C., a hat with longhair wig, and some buck teeth. We'd be out somewhere with the girls, and he'd see some folks he knew, and decide to target them. He'd excuse himself, and go change into Cousin Buck, come back, and either pretend to heckle me in the band to get up and play with us, or start flirting with his wife in front of the clueless victims of his prank. Cousin Buck came very close to gettin' run outta' quite a few establishments in greater East Tennessee.
Sometimes I wonder if little instances like that old signature ain't how Tony checks in on me now and then? He always was a prankster.
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Interesting looking fingerboard.
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Interesting looking fingerboard.
Lots of cool playwear. 8)
I took it back to Fret Mill yesterday. I hear they were quite tickled with the rebirth. One more happy customer. :)
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Awesome thread.
Especially when you have instruments of some serious age, and with your skill, can bring them back to what they once were.
Their story continues! Tell my kids all the time, if you take care of something, it will last a long time...
Love all the woodwork and detail. Also love not seeing the typical box store selling guitars. Hard to keep pace with the mail order world.
Keep up the great work. Love a good prank myself. Long live Cousin Buck!
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This past weekend's project; EJ-200, the Epiphone import (Korea or Indonesia?) of a maple-body J-200. Huge guitar. Very well-made. This one had several loose braces, and the upper half of the X-brace was broken and had fallen out. This allowed the top to sink in front of the bridge. There are a couple stress cracks on both sides at the waist from the lack of support.
The store took this one in as a basket-case trade-up toward a much nicer guitar, and my job is to get this one back to playable/presentable/saleable.
It's a work in-progress... I got to use my Stew-Mac scissor jack, along with traditional clamps and cork-lined wood caul, even an old-school turnbuckle style brace jack, just to glue in that one piece of the X-brace. Might be crowded in that soundhole, but one thing about it - it's tight!
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Love this stuff.
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... EJ-200, Epiphone .. Huge guitar. Very well-made ...
That's an interesting looking guitar. How does a guitar like that sound and/or what is its best use?
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Can't say I have ever played one Dave, and I only remember ever working on one more of them. It was just like this one, but a 70's Gibson stamped on the back of its headstock as a factory second. Like this one, it had all maple sides and back, spruce top... and a tragically twisted neck. I think the "2ND" stamping was for a misplaced bridge, which on these is a big blunder to undo. Rather than try to remove the bridge, reposition it, and deal with an impossible touch-up, I filled the bridge saddle slot in with a piece of rosewood, then routed a new slot where it needed to go mathematically. For the twisted neck, I defretted it, pulled those giant pearl block inlays out and planed the twist out with a radiused sanding bock. Then came the task of putting the inlays back in and refretting. I honestly can't remember what it sounded like. Either been too long, or I was glad to see it go.
Rev. Gary Davis, and Emmylou Harris are two notable artists I recall quickly who are known for playing and being associated with the J-200. I guess it could be considered as much a lead, as accompaniment guitar.
I glued up those two stress cracks at the waist last night. The pipe clamp is squeezing in on two cork-lined cauls that fit right into the ribs of the guitar. The cam clamps are pressing down on another set of cauls that are pushing the top down, or rather, preventing it from 'springing' open under the pressure from the pipe clamp. Kinda' like a guitar getting a (((group hug))). 😄
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This past weekend's project; EJ-200, the Epiphone import (Korea or Indonesia?) of a maple-body J-200. Huge guitar. Very well-made.
Someone on another forum asked what was the difference between Gibson and Epiphone. I answered that the Epi EJ-200 was a fine $1500 guitar that you can buy for $750, while the Gibson SJ-200 is a fine $2500 guitar that you can buy for $5500.......
Peter
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Great answer!!
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... EJ-200, Epiphone .. Huge guitar. Very well-made ...
That's an interesting looking guitar. How does a guitar like that sound and/or what is its best use?
How does it sound? Listen to Townes Van Zandt's Live At The Old Quarter, most of Pete Townshend's acoustic playing, and pretty much everything by Emmylou Harris. (They all use[d] the Gibson original, but the Epi is pretty close).
What's it best use? I'd say accompanying a singer-songwriter; they work well flatpicked, but better fingerpicked or strummed.
I love them (though I do prefer the much rarer mahogany and, especially, rosewood versions Gibson has occasionally made).
Peter
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Thanks Peter and Greg!
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Greg
When I read your postings about the reclamation projects you do on instruments in your little workshop, I'm reminded of a book by Matthew Crawford, Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work. My son gave it to me as a Christmas gift his senior year of college where he was a philosophy major before deciding that he much more enjoyed building things with his hands (he now has a career as a finish carpenteur). In his book, Crawford details how he came to the realization that pushing papers around as a policy analyst didn't bring him anywhere near the level of enjoyment as using his undergraduate degree in physics to figure out how things (in this case motorcycles) worked and repairing them. So he opened up a motorcycle repair shop in VA I believe. He speaks about how the reactions of customers when he was able to repair bikes that they initially thought were toast far outweighed the reinformcement he got from his previous job. I hope that, more often than not, you get to see the reactions of those whose instruments you repair.
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It's done, going back to the store tomorrow, just in time to hang up for weekend traffic. They have two more repair projects for me to evaluate while I'm in there.
My shop is an interesting outlet, Brian... sometimes it's as simple as just solving little wooden problems. Other days, it's a refuge from the so-called 'real world'... I can just go up there and tune out. Other days I'm actually trying to meet someone's expectations.
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Looks nice! Did you play it?
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Looks nice! Did you play it?
I did play on it for a while. Mostly to get the action where I wanted it. After initial restringing and assessment, I do a lot of that by measurement and feel. If a guitar still feels a little bit stiff in the first position, I'll put a capo on the 3rd fret, and see how much clearance there is between the strings and the 1st fret, and determine whether the nut slots need some work. If I'm doing one for a specific customer, I'll do it exactly to their requirement. If I'm setting one up for the store, I'll leave the action on the higher side of still comfortable. This one didn't need much... just a little tweak here and there.
I agree with what Coz says; this guitar would be ideal for a strumming/accompaniment stage instrument. I think it would sing played with a set of fingerpicks too, if I had coordination enough for that style. It was really awkward to play while seated, and there was almost too much zing and punch for a flatpick. I had another thought while playing it - if I were going to build an acoustic bass guitar, this body and general design would be a great starting point. Plenty of clarity and volume.
Up next; an early 1900's banjo rebuild. This one is from C. Bruno & Son, New York. It's really nice... very good parts here. The shell is especially interesting. It's a 3-ply maple rim, 10-7/8" dia. with an outer veneer of birdseye maple. The neck is a bookmatch of the same, with a center laminate stripe of rosewood or ebony. Check out the walnut 'cap' on the back of the shell. It has no purpose other than just hiding the glue joint where the rim is rolled, but what a classy way to do it. I like detail like this.
I've already disassembled, and cleaned up the hardware. Waiting on a new head, might be in today's mail. I've got to work on the dowelstick to get the neck angle back where it needs to be, and the rest of the work is just easy cleanup and setup.
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... I agree with what Coz says; this guitar would be ideal for a strumming/accompaniment stage instrument. I think it would sing played with a set of fingerpicks too, if I had coordination enough for that style. It was really awkward to play while seated, and there was almost too much zing and punch for a flatpick. I had another thought while playing it - if I were going to build an acoustic bass guitar, this body and general design would be a great starting point. Plenty of clarity and volume ...
Thanks for the report!
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The banjo wood is beautiful.
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I got the C. Bruno banjo pot assembly... well... assembled. A new Renaissance head installed, and I am working on the neck tonight.
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I second Paul's sentiment; that wood sounds great just looking at the pictures!
Peter
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Part of what I've been correcting on this one, was an unworkably shallow neck angle. I was about 50/50 on just cutting off the dowelstick and installing a threaded coordinator rod. I opted instead to try this approach... if you look closely at the stick, you'll see that I have split it from the center of the end, up to about a couple inches from the heel of the neck, then joined the cutoff piece to the bottom of the stick. Then I glued a veneer over the top and bottom of the joint. This buys you just a couple degrees of pitch. I've done this stunt a couple times, and it's worked in varying degrees. This one was borderline... worst-case it just failed, and I either made a new dowelstick for it, or went with a coordinator rod setup.
To get a little better fit, I have also made a thin maple shim to go between the upper half of the neck heel and the rim, and glued it in place. Followed up with a little amber-dyed brushed lacquer over all the new, or bare maple to blend back in.
I've still got some fretwork to do. But it's gettin' close to my bedtime. 💤
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One of these days I's got to figger out how you banger mechanics works yer majik; I have a certain facility with gitfiddles and electrical basses, but that there just baffles me.
Looking good, though.
Peter
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I repaired a small split in the fingerboard at the fifth string peg, then filled, and redrilled it for a new 'pip', or fifth string nut. One of my grand-daddies was a locksmith, and left me all his tools, and a giant drawer of tiny brass tumblers for the Yale lock cylinders he worked on. They make a nice pip. Nothing special here... it's mostly about getting the location correct so the string spacing stays consistent with the other four that terminate at the headsock..
Here she is, set up and tuned up... I'm still not completely happy with the action. I'll leave it strung for a few days to settle in, then disassemble and trim the heel to get a little bit steeper angle. It sounds fantastic. I shined up the old finish and left as-is.
I'm working on a 'Baby' Taylor with a busted top and a failed D-I-Y Gorilla-glue and popsicle stick fix. I got nuthin' against either of those products but they didn't work out too well here. It'll be okay, structurally, just not pretty. Maybe we'll just skip that chapter...
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What material is that 5th tuner made of? The pattern on it is beautiful.
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What material is that 5th tuner made of? The pattern on it is beautiful.
Those buttons are grained ivoroid, Paul. I think the tuning machines may be pre-Stewart MacDonald Waverly. And they may just be unbranded Five-Star pegs with Waverly buttons. But yeah... they look nice.
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I've been working on banjos for a long time... I reckon it was the mid-1980's when I started helping my Ol' Man put the finishing touches on his banjos.
It isn't common to see banjos with figured wood shells. It's more common on the older open-back ones than on resonator banjos, where the rim doesn't show much anyway. Still, after all this time, I can only recall a very small handful of them with a birdseye maple rim. Only one of ours (so far) has that feature [#94-18], and has a five-piece neck of flamed maple with walnut pinstripe laminates.
This is the second one to show up in my shop in as many weeks. Strange coincidences. What are the odds two very similar banjos turn up in the same shop that close together, yet unrelated? My instructions are pretty simple; just clean it up and restring. It won't be played, but the family wants to keep it presentable. Someone drilled it at the fourth fret and installed a fifth-string peg. The hide head had a couple holes rubbed in it where the tailpiece was digging in, and another one around the edge. I would replace this head if it were going to be played, but in this case I have cut a couple patches of calfskin hide and glued them in place. Other than that, all the hardware has been cleaned up as much as possible and the pot reassembled. I'll let it sit for a little while and restring one night this week.
Good way to spend an afternoon.
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Beautiful instrument.
When the family gets it back you should play a little ditty on it. Present to them a reason to play that beautiful heirloom instead of having it hang on a wall…
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If Ken happens to be behind his store counter when they come pick it up, I'm sure he will play a little tune on it, just to amuse if nothing else. I also have a Neapolitan mandolin to fix up along with this banjo... it's badly 'folded' from years of unattended string tension, and completely dried out so that all the staves of the bowl construction are coming loose. The top center seam is open too. I'm humidifying it for a few weeks before even attempting any work. The customers I'm repairing these for are an an older retired couple who live a couple hours northwest of town. I'm told the instruments were a grandmother's. In conversation, I advised them let's just preserve them for another generation, and do no harm. (I'd have to do some fairly radical work to make the mandolin playable again...)
Here's a (lousy) picture of the only Honeytone banjo to ever have a birdseye maple rim. You really have to look in this picture. I really wish I'd capped this rim instead of painting it black now, but my goodness the Ol' Man did a nice job on that neck. The sunburst is one of my earlier versions using a base color called "buckskin". I need to reconnect with the owner of #18 and get some better pictures of it.
*The freaky coincidences continue... totally unprompted, the guy who has #18 texted me last night after I'd gone to bed about something else. (a stash of wood for my shop he heard about) I returned the text this morning and asked for a couple pics of the birdseye maple shell. He sent me these right away.
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Yes that neck does look nice.
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That is one of the prettiest neck i have ever seen!
Peter
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That is one of the prettiest neck i have ever seen!
Peter
Yes that neck does look nice.
The maple necks in #93-16 and #93-17 were pretty special too... they were both one-piece rather than the bookmatch with pinstripes. I finished them both with the same colors. #94-18 was a little more subdued, more reddish-brown, less crimson red. Then on #95-19, I went for a solid burgundy red. Went back to sunburst for #95-20 and 21.
Here's 16 & 17. I don't have a picture of 19. 20 was destroyed in a fire, the scorched remains hang in my shop to this day.
*fixt errors in spelling and grammar.
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Those are nice as well, and love the back of 19-17.
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Finished up the banjo project and restrung it. It's now a playable keepsake. My glued-in hide patches to the hide head held fine as I tightened it up juuuusssst enuff. One more look at that nice wood shell from the side. Not a clue as to the maker or brand. It's an odd size and scale. Very Vega-Fairbanks like, but not. For sure, early 20th Century northeastern United States. Maybe into the 1920's. I enjoyed working on it.
The Neapolitan mandolin will be a bit more work. Before I even start, I'm trying to swell it with humidity. I've placed a damp spongebox inside, and sealed up the soundhole. Then wrapped the body in a plastic bag to hold the moisture in. I'm hoping the center seam will close up some, and several of the rosewood staves that form the bowlback will be much easier to glue up if they actually meet. I'll check it again in a week.
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Here's another one I just finished up and took back to the store... not too many of these around anymore. This is an early 1920's Vega Tu-Ba-Phone Style M tenor banjo. I documented the job for the customer, who inherited it from a family member who likely got it new. It was still in its original hardshell case. All the hooks-n-nuts actually matched, and even the original engraved Presto tailpiece was with it. It's rare to find one like this.
The scope of work wasn't too much... replace the old hide-head with a modern mylar "Renaissance" one, correctly sized, clean up the metal parts and hardware. The most tedious repair was involving the neck; the binding was missing. Not just a piece or two... all trace of it gone, leaving just a shelf routed into the ebony fingerboard. This would be very tricky to glue in a new strip of binding, then scrape down. I feel scrappy though... let's see how it goes.
First, pics of the disassembled pot, and a few other notable details.
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Now that the pot assembly was done, I spent the better part of Sunday afternoon on the binding. I opted for grained ivoroid, and figured I'd yellow it for the relic'd look.
(don't y'all judge me... it's legit, 100 years old...)
Then it was time to fit it up to the shell and restring...
Annnnd...
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All done. The pink towel pics.
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First, pics of the disassembled pot, and a few other notable details.
Disassembled pot? Am I the only one who expected to see the Live/Dead cover open, with flower on one side and seeds & stems on the other? 8)
Lovely work, as always, Greg.
Peter
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That Vega truly is beautiful.
I Wanna Play For You was my “tray”. ;)
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Anymore, I keep a mindset of "treat the patient in front of you", and a lot of times I'm fixing things where the cost of repair borders on, or sometimes exceeds the value of the subject... and you still have to do a good job, because it means something to somebody. So it's a pleasure when I get to work on a nice one like that Tu-Ba-Phone. I got a call from the customer last night (I'd already wiped-out... zzzz 💤) but they were thrilled with it. Plus I got paid to do it. Double-win.
This Neapolitan mandolin was 'part two' of the last banjo I worked on, the pony-scale tenor that had been converted to a five-string, and had a birdseye maple rim. The mandolin was badly dried out, the brass frets had sprouted, the fingerboard had a few little splits forming, the rosewood staves that form the bowlback were separated in a few places, the inlaid pickguard had popped loose, and the top was split open. All of that was within the scope of what I quoted to fix, the goal here was to make this instrument capable of being restrung, and 'look presentable'. What I did not commit to was making it playable. This mandolin had been strung to modern pitch with modern strings, which it was never designed for, and it simply folded in the middle. The string action is ridiculously high. But it sounds really pretty strung to a low, open chord.
One repair done here; the split in the top. It would not close any more with humidity and clamping, so it had to be filled with a spruce spline. I haven't done one of these in a while, but it was fun! Nothing too complicated about it, just a thin wedge of quartersawn spruce, cut and trimmed to fit exactly into that crack, glued in, then carved down using a very sharp chisel, followed by a razor blade scraping to flush with the top. After the finish is touched up, you can see the repair, but this is a solid fix. It's mostly hidden behind the tailpiece cover anyway, but the structural integrity is what's key here... that pull-and-pressure is trying to gap the top open, it needed something to bind it back together. Check the pic, see if you can see it.
All the obtuse angles and rounded elliptical surfaces of these things make you come up with some inventive clamping solutions. I like projects that make me think. This one sure did that. And I think it turned out nice. Check out this original leather case! I'll watch it for a day or two, and run it back to the store Monday.
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Nicely done!
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Incredible, too!
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Looking great!
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Took in this sweet little 1/2-size German upright bass for new strings, bridge, soundpost and setup yesterday. It had a seam separation at the waist, an easy fix after all the crazy things I've been gluing and clamping up lately.
LaBella makes a buncha' different bass string sets. These SuperNils are popular with the bluegrass/oldtyme scene. They are a nylon core, so I often singe the clipped ends in a candle flame, then dip in the melted paraffin. I'm a little bit OCD about winding them too. This set was made specifically for a 1/2-size bass, so they were just right for this length. (I really hate to see a bass pegbox with a bird's nest of strings...😖)
New bridge, Teller... also 1/2-size. (note that I saved the feet and crown cutoff pieces, and put them in the string pack... they are for a future shim or graft) Soundpost... I just shaved it down proportionally. Main thing here is fit... I got it on the first try.
While on my bench, I made a new tailgut for it from some 1/8" brass rod stock, threading the ends for acorn nuts. The improvised wire hanger was too short, which made the string afterlength too long. This fractional-sized bass had a scale length of about 38-1/4", so the afterlength, (the portion of string between the bridge and tailpiece) should be about 1/6 of that, in this case, around 6-3/8". My brass hanger has a little more refined look. They aren't terribly expensive and they take minutes to make.
My customer is on his way... just enough time to tune it up and shine it up. Nice to work on a bass again!
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Nice work on this bass, Greg. About those strings, I'm doing some string testing for LaBella right now. They're developing some new nylon string sets for double bass that are flatwound nylon instead of the roundwound they've been using, and they're matching them with new light gauge metal E and A strings. They'll probably be on the market maybe later this year. Supernil will still be offered.
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Good to hear, Keith. I wonder if this is to compete more directly with Innovation (belongs to GHS now) Silver and Gold sets, and the Polish Eurosonics? Those are what I have been recommending to my customers who like a softer feel, thicker sound than a chromesteel flat, but don't necessarily want the roundwound nylon strings. I know a few though who will never, ever give up the SuperNil set.
I look forward to trying them out. Hopefully they are similar in feel to their "Low Tension Flats" for bass guitar.
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Haven't had much time for my shop lately. The last days of my day-gig in public service are getting very long, but the good news is that they are drawing to a close rapidly. My pre-retirement meeting with HR is next week.
I will miss some of the guys and girls, fellow Operators, and crazy as it sounds, I will even miss the danger. I won't miss "The Job". These days, I much prefer the slower pace and peaceful workspace of my dusty workshop.
Oh yeah, almost forgot... I took in a Martin "Backpacker" guitar, and an Ibanez acoustic for repair this week, both for Fret Mill Music.
(the Tyvek suit and shield, for anyone who's curious, is to protect me from the Hydrochloric Acid I'm transferring from one barrel to another here. Yes, it's extremely dangerous. And it isn't even the most hazardous thing I did today.)
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I wasn't totally burned out this evening, so thought I'd slip up here to my shop and maybe get a headstart on the Martin Backpacker guitar...
For those who aren't familiar with them, these are a simple little 6-string strummer instrument C.F Martin & Co. makes in their Navajoa, Mexico factory. They're actually kinda' fun, and sound pretty good for what they are. You can easily keep one in your office, or take on a hike, or anywhere you wouldn't necessarily want to take a larger, or more valuable axe. It's a 'casual' guitar, and not particularly expensive. (I think Ken sells 'em new for around $300)
Anyway, this one came in the other day as a "can you fix this?" case. It had been strung up with medium-gauge strings, and it collapsed. As the label says- "use extra-light strings only". Looking inside at what little bracing there is, I don't see any loose... I believe it's simply sunken-in, right in front of the bridge... really sunken. And I'm not quite certain what will be a permanent repair, but for now, I am attempting to swell it back to a flat, or ideally, a bit of an arched profile with moisture and clamp pressure between cauls. Once that's accomplished, I'll see if there's a way to brace it laterally. This will probably be a long-term process. I don't know how long it'll take to get that spruce top to remember what it used to be like.
More on this one later. May have to get creative.
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That's an interesting looking fingerboard.
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That's an interesting looking fingerboard.
It is. I was thinking the same thing Dave, wondering what it might be. My initial thought was it might be Indian Laurel. I have a Fender Telecaster with that for a fingerboard wood... it's similar to this stuff, but not quite a match. According to Martin, the Backpacker guitar comes with either a Padauk or Morado fingerboard, depending on the production line. I remember back in the early 90's they made a line of special D-28's with back and sides of Morado, a Bolivian rosewood. Haven't seen one of them in years, but I remember it being more of a striped walnut-ty brown.
So I can't say what ithis board is but I like it... especially how it shows where it's been played on.
*My improvised press is working... the top is already flattening out some. I slipped a couple shims under each end of the caul, and tightened the clamp, inducing some camber (arch) now. I'll let it sit for another day or two, in a warm/moist bag to marinate. I'm on to other projects today... nuthin' interestin'... just payin' the light bill. It beats the daylights outta' transferring Hydrochloric Acid from drum-to-drum though, wearin' a plastic jumpsuit...
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Older ones are paduak, newer ones are morado (AKA Bolivian rosewood). I have heard whispers that they've since changed to Richlite, but I can confirm nor deny that - except to say this one ain't that.
This one looks like morado to me.
Peter
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Does the top have the same integrity after being bent back into position?
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Does the top have the same integrity after being bent back into position?
Good question. I think so, yes. But clearly it wasn't strong enough to start with. At least not for anything beyond the prescribed extra-light strings. That seems to be what does these little guys in... oddly though, they don't fold or buckle behind the bridge. Or at least this one didn't.
The real question is, will my fix hold up even with lighter tension? I'm trying to figure out how to get a transverse brace (or two) glued-in to brace that top in front of the bridge. Like building a ship in a bottle - there just isn't much room to work.
I got a call yesterday evening from a guy with an D-28 needing a bridge reglue and setup. He's supposed to be coming by later today for me to have a look-see. I think might know this guitar... if it's the one, it was in the local Craigslist for two months, for pretty cheap. This might be why. (I was going to give it another week and go check it out myself...)
Back to work on the Backpacker. And I've got a 90's Yamaha acoustic-electric on the bench today, couple loose braces and the bridge is easing up... a 6 year-old kid is going to be taking lessons on this one, so I gotta' nail the setup. And it needs to look presentable so they won't... you know, be careless about an already beat-up guitar.
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… I'm trying to figure out how to get a transverse brace (or two) glued-in to brace that top in front of the bridge. Like building a ship in a bottle - there just isn't much room to work.
Was hoping you would say that! Looking forward to your creative solution.
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Another milestone today... pre-retirement meeting with HR this morning. They crunched the numbers and put them in front of me. Dispensation, insurance, deductions, scheduling... man... it's a reality check. Doesn't seem like much for 30-some-odd years of whatever. But it's on. I'm out this Fall. And this dusty workshop will be my #1 gig from there forward.
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Congratulations.
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I've hopscotched around on several projects this weekend.
I finished up the Yamaha acoustic-electric that had loose braces and the bridge lift. I had to put in some overtime on it to get it right though. That bridge would never have come offa' that guitar in 100 years, whatever that goop is they epoxy them on with is freakin' amazing... but it had been lifted for long enough that it was warped. I thought I'd get away with wicking some glue underneath it and clamping the daylights out of it with some well-placed cauls. It worked until I put it under string tension annnnd.... *tink*. Oh well, break out the heat lamp and spatula. After it finally came off, I chiseled all the finish and glue off down to wood. I flattened the bottom of the bridge on the belt sander and took a little height too, bought me a little more room for setup on the action. Skipping ahead, it set up really nice. Even those stock electronics nearly 30 years old crackled to life with a new battery. I'll send this one out to my buddy Joey, who favors these Yammyhaw geetars. He's probably wore out the tires on his flower truck this weekend. This one goes back to the store tomorrow, and the youngster who will be playing it should have it by tomorrow evening. Son of the original owner.
Took this early 1890's John Buckbee banjo in for a new head, strings, and setup. It's really a pleasure to work on such a nice old instrument like this. You just don't get to see many this well-preserved. I've got it all tore down and cleaned up. I'll order a new head tomorrow... 11-1/16", high crown. That's a weird one. The most interesting thing here; that tonering. It's just a rolled steel ring, maybe 5/16" diameter stock, but the way it rides on top of a ring of steel rivets, each positioned directly over a corresponding bracket-shoe. Fascinating. I have seen similar ideas, but never exactly this. I did something like it once, on a tenor banjo for a friend. Mine had a rolled brass hoop tonering, 1/4" stock, and I made it float on top of brass screws in the top of a wood shell. I arrived at the idea independently... clearly it already existed a century before.
Time to rest my brains for another week of Waterworks madness.
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Diggin' the mirrored inlays around the nut on that banjer!
Peter
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Diggin' the mirrored inlays around the nut on that banjer!
Peter
Pretty cool, ain't it? That was a particular style of the time. A few notable builders did that back then... a first fret inlay would be replicated in mirror-image just above the nut. I had that in mind when designing the truss rod cover for #28. Just a little wink at the past.
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The guitar looks nice.
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High-pressure job in the shop this week... a classic C.F. Martin & Co. repair work, remove and reglue the bridge from a late 90's/early 2000's HD-28.
See, there was a timeframe where Martin didn't have their top jig set up to remove the finish from the entire footprint where the bridge needs to sit. The result is, a poor wood-to-wood glue joint, practically every guitar like this was doomed to allow the bridge to lift. I almost ducked this one, because the guitar had scarcely a scratch on it. It belongs to the brother of an old friend though, so I took the job, and waited for a good calm day to fire up the heatlamp and made sure the seam knife was really clean. I taped that top up to hell and gone, lest I slip and turn one little job into a great big one. I got some water/vinegar handy. Two hours later, the bridge was off, clean. Nary a sliver of spruce top came with it, just one little splinter run in the ebony I'd need to glue.
You can see the failure here. Now I'm as big of a Martin fan-dude as there is, but this is just so silly. There is nearly a 1/4" border of lacquer under the bridge footprint here. In the next picture, I have scribed it, and trimmed it away with a sharp blade, and cleaned the old glue off, prepped for the reglue. The bridge is ready too.
Annnnd.... clamped back on, using my bridge jig. I'll knock these clamps off tomorrow and set the guitar back up. Breathe out...
*The new head should be in for the Buckbee banjo tomorrow. It was a weird size. Had to special-order.
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[sigh]
Thought I was done with the HD-28. Nope. I was stringing it up, looked inside with my inspection mirror to make sure the string ball-ends seated correctly against the bridgeplate... and noticed a tiny crack in the X-brace forming right at the cross. No idea how. It may have been like this for years. There's not a mark on this guitar from any impact. Makes no diff... I had to fix that. One little squeeze of glue, a wet wipe to clean up the excess, clamp between cauls, and another overnight on the bench.
Oh well... it ain't like I gotta' feed it breakfast.
*the oddball-sized banjo head came in today, so I'll probably jump back on that tomorrow evening.
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Nice work!
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The HD-28's owner picked his guitar up today and was so tickled with the setup they paid me, tipped me, ran back home and brought me their HD-35 to work on. It just needs the action tweaked. Karma?
I tried the banjo head. It fitn' dit. I ordered another, 11-1/8" Dia. Ya' win some, ya' choke on a few. Some days it's all gutter-balls.
In the meantime, I am reassembling a Kay bass that I haven't posted about. It's been a long, protracted job. Could have been its own epic thread... it's literally strewn around my shop in three major pieces, and a few other incidentals. Right now, I'm fitting the dovetail neck joint back together after shimming it.
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Fitting the dovetail...
I have made an improvised tool to reach inside the dovetail block and sand the shimmed gluing surfaces. I'm also sanding the corresponding surfaces of the neck. This is tedious and time-consuming. I use a piece of chalk to mark these surfaces so I can tell where the contact is being made... slowly but surely, the joint slides together and gets tighter.
Almost there... but the dovetail is not quite seated into the block yet. This last 3/8" is critical. If I have overshot, then more shims get glued in, and the process starts over.
Once I am close enough with the dry-fit, I'll lay the neck aside and glue the repaired top back onto the body. It will never win a beauty contest, but C-1 #13766 will be structurally solid.
(did I mention this one was a mess?)
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Man, and I was impressed with myself when I managed to make and install a new harness in my Epiphone Sheraton (what a 335 wishes it was); you, Sir, have skills!
Peter
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I love when improvised tools work out; one time I made a tool to remove wood from around the end of a Fender truss rod to get more threads so I wouldn't have to trash the neck (a lotta threads were beat) and in a goldsmithing example I found, even with having nearly 200 different metal files, I didn't have one for the job; I wound up using string rubbed in polishing compound to do the job...if anyone's interested, I was making a copy of a Tiffany 'bubbles' ring with diamonds and rubies, so you can see the difficulties of making it...I'd post a pic, but I only have film pics of the ring (before I got a digital camera)...Tony.
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That's cool, Tony (both parts) - and now Stew-Mac sells a tool (for _a lot_ more than yours cost......) just for hogging wood out so one can use the included die to cut more threads.
Peter
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... I have made an improvised tool to reach inside the dovetail block and sand the shimmed gluing surfaces. I'm also sanding the corresponding surfaces of the neck. This is tedious and time-consuming ...
Careful you don't bang up your fingers.
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I like to think that I got some of my tool-making thought processes from my great-grandfather, who being a blacksmith, made all of his own tools. Incidentally, he's where the Edward in my name comes from, and I knew him well. Most of the family thinks we looked alike. I learned a ton about woodworking from my Dad building banjos, and part of that was just the understanding of how stringed things work, from a mechanical perspective. The guy who I learned the most about instrument repair from is an absolute genius. The jigs he makes are just amazing, and make mine look like crude constructs. Because they are. But I'm getting better.
I got the top back on the Kay bass. Clamps, clamps, everywhere. One of my better rigs, speaking of. I'll leave it cinched up for a day or so to set, then get back to final fit on the dovetail joint. I will be glad to see this one leave the hospital.
Then I jumped the setup job on the aforementioned HD-35. Simple job... just adjust the action, clean up, and restring. It's all done and ready to go back. Mighty fine guitar. HD-35's aren't all that common. It is a 'souped-up' variation on Martin's D-35. It came with the upgrade to herringbone trim, zipper backstrip(s) and scalloped bracing of the HD-28, but retains the rest of standard Style 35 trim and appointments. Three-piece rosewood back, matched sides, spruce top, bound fingerboard, 'stacked' purfling, 1/4" braces, ebony fingerboard and bridge. They are a very warm mellow guitar that it's hard to go wrong with. This one is especially good after a setup.
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... I have made an improvised tool to reach inside the dovetail block and sand the shimmed gluing surfaces. I'm also sanding the corresponding surfaces of the neck. This is tedious and time-consuming ...
Careful you don't bang up your fingers.
Becoming more and more conscious of this all the time, Dave. I poked a pretty clean hole in the side of my left thumb one day last week up here. It only takes a flash of distraction.
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Thumb dings too. :-X
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Thumb dings too. :-X
See, this is why we need a "Like" button!
Peter
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or a rimshot sample...
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All you have to do is ask:
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Very impressive skills.
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I finished up the Buckbee banjo, which I have since learned is/was a 'Morrison' model. I did some reading and there is a little bit about these out there. I believe this one is older than the one I've just been working on, but clearly they are the same maker and lineage.
https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/2016/06/1880s-buckbee-made-james-morrison-5.html?m=1 (https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/2016/06/1880s-buckbee-made-james-morrison-5.html?m=1)
It was a fun project. Ain't every day you work on something nearly 140 years old that's still a playable instrument.
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Nice!
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WQ-413 marked 10-7 (out-of-service) at residence. I changed out of uniform and put on shop clothes. The '46 Kay bass is back in one major piece, and on the launch pad for strings tomorrow night. The fingerboard is a really knockout piece of Brazilian rosewood, beautiful colors and figures. It had way too many knots and twists to ever be used in a guitar, but Kay used a bunch of this wood up. I have already cut and fit a new spruce soundpost, and an adjustable maple bridge. It would've taken another hour, maybe two to restring and do final setup tonight... and I just ain't got the gas left for it. WQ-413 marks 10-8 again tomorrow morning at about 0530.
Oh yeah... the guy I did the HD-28 and HD-35 for... brought me his late brother's Yamaha to set up. Think I got me a regular customer.
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Man, that is yummy fingerboard!
Peter
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That fingerboard does look nice!
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Yep, even a slab-sawn piece of that stuff can be a special thing. The color is striking. Sometimes the streaking in it is surreal... like you can't imagine nature doing that.
We have Strangs! Violins have strings... fiddles have... the other things.
The action set up pretty nice. Left myself a little room to adjust either way on the bridge. I'm really picky about how these things get wound on the rollers. Once cut, I singe the cut end in a candle flame, and dip in the wax. This keeps the sills from ravelling. And I fit a new rubber tip to the footrest. They wear out, but it's an easy, cheap replacement part.
I'll leave it tuned up to pitch for the night, and do some final tweaks and adjustments tomorrow. Barring anything unforeseen, this one will be checking out of the hospital tomorrow evening.
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The Kay bass went home as planned, and I went on the road for a couple weekends with my buddy Ted and hit a couple fiddler's conventions we hadn't been to in a while. I have discovered that working 2 days a week at the Water Treatment Plant, then taking off 5 days means the following Monday and Tuesday are somewhat calamitous. Like I could just start at the door with a push-broom and shovel, and work my way to the Control Room. Holy Hell. But there simply aren't but so many calendar days left, and I'm quite determined to not give back 400-odd hours of paid leave.
So I stopped by Fret Mill Music yesterday and picked up some more work too. I haven't posted about much of what I do, because most of it isn't really that interesting. I'll pick one of these, (probably the banjo, 'cause it's waaay cool) to document. The guitars are just payin' bills. Seriously. These three projects represent about 12-16 hours, and will bill out at about what my health insurance will cost me after I retire from the Public Service gig.
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Now that is what a banjo fretboard should look like! Scrumptious inlays!
Got the new issue of Vintage Guitar today. In Dan Erlewine's column he departs from the usual git-fiddles and replaces a neck on a doghouse, and fits a bridge to another.
I am a big fan of Mr. E., but that is not his wheelhouse; he got them done, but not as elegantly as you do it, Greg.
Peter
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How old is that banjo? Looks like it's missing a bit of fingerboard as well.
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How old is that banjo? Looks like it's missing a bit of fingerboard as well.
It's 100-110 years old, Dave. The SuperTone brand was sold by Sears & Roebuck, this 'Graduate 410' model was a better student grade banjo most likely made by Rettburg & Lange. It's got a number of issues to address. I've already disassembled it and begun. The hardware is soaking in my parts bath to dissolve some rust and corrosion. I've cleaned up the spun-over rim. Thankfully the old hide is intact, so I'll reuse it. The headstock had a split developing at the 4th string peg, so I've glued and clamped it, and set the neck aside to ponder the next steps. The binding and little bits of missing fingerboard are relatively easy to fix. This banjo was never designed for the tension of steel strings, but it's been strung up with them to pitch so long that the dowelstick is warped beyond use. Worst of all, it isn't a separate piece of wood that can be steamed out and reset; it's an integral part of the neck. I don't think I can even split, and flip it over and correct the draught angle enough. I may just amputate it, and install an adjustable coordinator rod. That's a more permanent solution, that does detract from originality, but does get us a playable banjo for another 100 years. Here's a single rim-rod set from Stew-Mac... I've done it quite a few times. https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/hardware-installation/single-rim-rod-set-for-banjo/ (https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/hardware-installation/single-rim-rod-set-for-banjo/)
I've got time to think about it. Going to work on the Ovation 12-string a while.
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I went by the store yesterday to drop off and pick up work... I turned repair tickets for the Aria guitar and the Ovation 12-string. I went a little overtime on the Aria, and a little under on the 12-string. The Aria needed fretwork bad. I replaced 7 frets, and dressed them. Then when I strung the guitar up, it developed a ski-jump from the 14th fret (where the neck joined the body) on up. Not a bad one, but I had to fudge a little on those last 7 or 8 frets... and those are a big ol pain in the butt. Easy enough to level off, but crowning them is extremely tedious and time-consuming. And I coulda' left it... that guitar was somebody's 'first guitar' that was getting fixed up for sentimental reasons. I couldn't send it back with buzzy frets when another hour would make it right. I comped the hour, and felt good about it. That fairly cheap guitar played great when it went back.
Meanwhile, back on the SuperTone banjo...
I decided to amputate the dowelstick completely and install a single coordinator rim-rod through the shell. I have (so far...) cut off the stick, flushed up the heel, plugged the square hole in the shell, and ordered the rod set. (It may arrive today) I replaced the missing piece of binding, and glued a couple other places where the original binding was loose. The repair will be seen, but not likely noticed. Finally, I have filled in the chips in the end of the fingerboard. It's epoxy, with very fine wood dust from my belt sander for body, and some black pigment for color. The trick here, will be getting the texture to blend right.
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I put the SuperTone banjo aside for a while to work on a Yamaha FG-375S guitar. It belongs to the customer who I worked on the HD-28 and HD-35 for upthread a little. It was his brother Dickie's guitar. I knew Dickie well, grew up playing music around his circle. He was killed in a logging accident, back in 2011, and as terrible a way to die as that might be, it was not his first. Dickie had driven a pulpwood truck his whole life, and hauled wood to the WestVaCo paper mill in nearby Covington, Virginia. He was a simple salt-of-the-earth, hard-working man until that fateful day a log of timber crushed him to death. He was mostly a mandolin player, but could also grab a guitar and sing a harmony part too. You can tell he played the living daylights out of this guitar. He was always kind to me when I first started playing bass. If you've ever noticed a little memorial flier over my workbench, that's him. There are a few more folks up there too. Anyway, I set up Dickie's old Yammy-haw this afternoon. (I'm lookin' at you Joey!) A fine example of early 80's import guitar, if ever there was one. I left the odd 6th string bridge pin just like it was, because I remember it being that way... though personally that would drive... me... INSANE. 🤯
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I hate doing fretwork. I like it better these days, now that I get paid better to do it... but I still don't enjoy it. Ward laughs at me. Man, you're gonna' wish for days you could sit on your ass and level up frets... Yeah, probably so. His fretwork is beautiful. Probably why I got him to do both of my Series basses. Anyway, I'm stalling a fret job. But it ain't like I'm just up here wasting time...
I just finished gluing the top back on a fractional-sized carved-top Framus bass, that wasn't the easiest repair job. The solid spruce top had split open from the tailblock up, on a diagonal, until it finally reached the centerseam, where it continued. And it had been open for quite a while, under tension, so it did not want to line back up for a nice, clean glue joint. I thought I'd probably have to do a spline repair, but really couldn't tell until I got the thing apart to more easily manipulate the pieces. Getting it apart wasn't too bad. I was worried, because it had been apart and open at least once before as evidenced by the "repaired by" note from June, 1969. Thank you Mr. A.B. Seaboldt, for leaving the hide glue door unlocked, and not epoxied shut. I have honored your work, and left my name under yours, these 55 years later.
What you're seeing here in the pictures, is a creative way to draw the longways cracks together, and bind them front to back. After they were closed and solid, the seam and cracks were reinforced with spruce cleats. Note the grain of the quartersawn spruce is turned the opposite direction of the grain of the top. Once glued in place, these cleats help bind the two (or three) pieces of the top together.
Of course, gluing the top back on... same routine as usual... lots of clamps. Used hide glue. So 55 years from now, someone can put their "repaired by" next to me and Mr. A.B. Seaboldt of Pontiac, Michigan here.
I gotta' get back to dressin' on them frets...
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The Framus bass is done. I cleaned the strings, oiled the fingerboard, shined it up, set the soundpost and restrung it a few minutes ago. Will watch it for a day or two, but that fix ain't goin' anywhere. I'll return it this weekend, probably Friday after work. (the client happens to live near one of my Water Treatment Plants in town...)
I really enjoyed this one. It's a fine instrument. Challenging repair, with satisfying results.
*and FWIW, the fret dressin' job went back Monday night. :P Tweren't nuthin' worth picture-takin'...
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I assume that's Mr. Monroe in the purple suit?
Peter
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... I really enjoyed this one ...
:)
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I assume that's Mr. Monroe in the purple suit?
Peter
It does look purple I guess... a combination of the colors being washed out and faded, and the auto filter on my phone's camera under the weird lights in the shop.
Like most things hanging up in there, it's a souvenir. That particular poster was a Gibson promotional thing that Bill used to autograph for folks at shows. He'd always have a stack of them at the record/merch table. Long story short, the very first band I was ever in got to "open" for Bill Monroe & the Bluegrass Boys, and Ralph Stanley & the Clinch Mountain Boys at Floyd County High School. I forget exactly when, but sometime in 1989. (we basically rung out the PA for the FOH guys, but the hometown folks thought it was cool...) My Dad got me an autographed poster that night... and that's it. I finally framed it.
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The Framus bass went back home Friday, and I picked up two more jobs from the store to work on. Neither is anything interesting... a fairly cheap 5-string banjo from the 70's, in need of some repair and setup, and the other is an HPL Martin with loose braces and seam separations. This is my paycheck this week... both are easy work to turn around.
I'm still working on the SuperTone banjo, little by little. Not much left to do before reassembly, but I had backburnered it to catch up on the aforementioned easier work and that Framus bass. I just filled a couple more little places in the fingerboard. Next, I'll drill it for the coordinator rods.
*forgot to attach the pics...
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You may have discussed this before and I just don't remember, but what do you think of HPL guitars?
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You may have discussed this before and I just don't remember, but what do you think of HPL guitars?
They have their place. Martin kinda' went overboard with the idea for a while in my opinion.
HPL, high pressure laminate, is basically like a wood-grain formica... it has a rubbery fibrous core with a matte finish hard plastic exterior. I have one of their X-series guitars; a DC-X2E. That would be a Dreadnought with a Cutaway, 2nd generation (solid-spruce top) X-Series, with Electronics. I bought it as a shipping-damaged throwaway, fixed the busted parts, and then converted it into a 25.5" micro-scale bass guitar. It has HPL back and sides that look like Ziricote.
It was a fun project, and worked out pretty well. Makes a nice porch bass, or you can plug it up and gig with it.
I have fixed several HPL Martin guitars... most of them are borderline "repair exceeds cost of replace" cases, but if it's do-able, I'll try. You have to use CA glue or epoxy on HPL.
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Don't know how that Martin plays, or sounds, but you made it into a good looking instrument. Nicely done!
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Those are some very cool clamps on that bass a few posts up!
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Don't know how that Martin plays, or sounds, but you made it into a good looking instrument. Nicely done!
I think it's somewhere waaay back upthread... it was a worthwhile thing. Plays and sounds fine. I knew ahead of time it would work theoretically, but at the time it hadn't been done, at least not with a Dreadnought guitar. Since then, Martin has intro'd a line of micro-scale basses.
Those are some very cool clamps on that bass a few posts up!
Most of those are modified spool clamps, I fitted cork jaws to the curves of a generic bass shape. The rest are cam clamps and a couple furniture clamps. Anything to spread out the pressure. ;)
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Agreed, your creative clamping is artistic.
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I haven't had much time for shop updates this week. Man, I turned in a scary one Friday morning... it was a job I really shouldn't have taken in the first place; a 1965 Martin D-28. In mostly original condition, an $8-10k guitar. But it was supposed to be a simple bridge reglue. And that part was simple... easier than usual. But it had a slightly loose brace too, that had allowed the top to get a crease in it right behind the bass side of the bridge. I used my phone-a-friend privileges and called my buddy and mentor Ward Elliott for advice. After having a little fun with me, he took a look inside and agreed this was a mean one. He loaned me a caul for flattening the top first. I spent the next 10 days and nights trying to get the top of that guitar back to something flat enough to work with. Then the hard part was how to get glue under the brace... as soon as I'd let the strings down the tiny little gap would disappear. I ended up working thinned fish-glue (it's a real thing - look it up) into there with the three bass strings still on the guitar tuned up to pitch, then wound them down quickly, used a hot, damp cloth to clean up the excess, and applied clamp pressure directly to the brace with a cork-lined flat caul on the top side. Part of the advantage of the fish-glue is longer work time, and easy cleanup. 24 hours later, I restrung the D-28 and held my breath. The top stayed flat as a flounder. You guys really didn't want to see pictures of glue drying did you? Here was the real repair; Ward's flattening caul. The repair would not have succeeded without having that top flat first.
What else...? Well, there's that HPL Martin I was evaluating for repair. It's a pretty sad case... fixable, but quite honestly the amount of time I'll spend doing this will make the bill very close to the cost of a new similar model. I'll have to find a nice way to tell them that. HPL guitars are tough but they are still breakable. This model has a solid top. As you can see, it has some extreme damage. There is a jagged hole that took out some of the kerfing too. There is a center seam separation, and another top crack, and a couple 'whisker' cracks at the tail block. The back has a jagged hole through the HPL, and the back is separated from the side for several inches. Gluing that separation back isn't a big deal, but replacing the missing piece is. (here's a close-up look at HPL for ya' Dave...) On one hand, I love to see guitars played... but this guitar has been abused. So this is where I sometimes have to turn the switch off and treat it like a job. I can fix it; here is what it will co$t.
The SuperTone 'Graduate' has been drilled and fitted for lag bolts and I've fitted the coordinator rim-rod in. I'll probably finish it up this afternoon. It'll take a couple days for the hide-head and gut strings to settle in. More pics of them later.
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Any idea what happened to this guitar to have suffered such damage?
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Any idea what happened to this guitar to have suffered such damage?
I don't much like term Dave, but I believe this guitar is/was a 'beater'... an instrument used somewhat carelessly as a utility. I think it was impaled by something accidentally. (at least I hope it wasn't intentional) That's the bulk of the damage. The top cracks can be attributed to insufficient humidity. The rest is just sheer play wear and rough handling. You know, stuff happens at bar gigs... my old '50 D-18 has had the whole bass side replaced from the waist to the tailblock, allegedly from a barfight many, many years ago.
As far as Martin guitars go, this one could be replaced for about $4-500 secondhand. (I don't think there is a new equivalent) I'll be hard-pressed to fix this one under that. I'll probably estimate high and let them be happy if I come in under. I see about 8-10 hours of bench time here. To say nothing of it will still look just... awful. But I won't give up on it if the customer says "fix it".
*found the pics of my D-18 replacement rib in an old thread... I did not perform this repair, it was done in the late 1960's.
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Post-game on the SuperTone banjo... it's all done and strung up, ready to go. I'll watch it for a couple days, let those nylon strings finish stretching and the old hide-head settle in again, then take it back to the store. Here's a few detail pics of the completed project. Have to say, one of the cooler banjos to pass through here in a while. 8)
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Very nice work, Greg 😊
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Very nice work, Greg 😊
As always.
But I do confess, I really don't understand how the mechanicals of a banjer work.
Peter
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Very nice work, Greg 😊
As always.
But I do confess, I really don't understand how the mechanicals of a banjer work.
Peter
Thanks fellas. 😊
They are mechanical gizmos, fer sure. And on one level, that makes them easier to work on.
This one is now a little more mechanical than it was originally, Coz. If you scroll back upthread a few posts to when this one came in, you can see its neck had the wooden dowelstick running through the pot assembly, and the bolt in the end supplied an anchor point for the tailpiece. This was the common construction method of the time... how the neck was fastened to the pot assembly and that fit also determined the draught angle of the neck. This one's dowelstick was badly warped, the neck was pitched waaaay forward, so far that the bridge was only a 1/4" tall, yet the strings where the neck heel joined the pot were ridiculously high. I had to address that somehow to make the instrument playable.
Given how dorked-up that stick was, I opted to amputate it, trim the neck heel to a better fit tipped back (much like you'd calculate setting the neck in an acoustic guitar, just a butt joint, no dovetail) then install an adjustable coordinator rod. This threaded rod secures the neck to the pot and allows you to push or pull a little bit on the shell walls, then lock them in place.
NECK----> [--] <-----ROD------ > [--] <---- LOCK NUT
I really wouldn't have done away with the dowelstick if it weren't so wacked. This solution just made sense here. I had thought about a way to hide, or somehow disguise the coordinator rod as a dowelstick, but it would have run me into overtime on the job. If the eventual buyer wants, I'll take a rip at that.
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You make it sound easy. 😀
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You make it sound easy. 😀
Sometimes they are easy Paul, but see Post #646 above. I was sweating battery acid over that D-28. I charged two billable hours for that job, and I swear it took 2 weeks off my life in stress. I really only gained experience.
I have accepted the HPL Martin job, or rather the client has accepted my estimate... so I'll be fixin' it. I did find out about the source of the bulk of the damage. It got knocked over by a sudden thunderstorm that picked up an e-z-up canopy, and bashed it. I'm told it's just a working guitar, to just fix it back to playable, "don't care what it looks like ". Good to know.
So we'll go from there.
*The SuperTone "Graduate" goes back to the store tomorrow. 8)
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The SuperTone looks great!
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I know the sweatin' acid part; I've taken in jewelry repairs I shoulda said no to and then muddled through hoping not to melt the whole thing...I've lately learned that it's okay to say no I can't fix it, but if you take it to someone with goldsmith's laser, you'll be fine...wish i could afford one, but I'd be paying it off for the rest of my life...Tony.
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The knitting back together of the HPL Martin is underway. For the official record, this guitar is a a GPCPA5K; the 5th edition of Grand Performance Cutaway model, Performing Artist, in Koa HPL. It's a discontinued model.
So far, I have glued-in the missing piece of kerfing that was loose in the guitar, and began to glue the loose seams of HPL. I'm using epoxy to bond the HPL ribs back to the back. I used some CA glue to patch the fractured HPL in the back. I was pleased to see it bond nicely. Hopefully it cleans up with some acetone, as no touch-up is possible here. The top is a different approach. We'll get to that next.
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When I got up to the shop yesterday evening, I found that the epoxy glue joint between the back and sides at the guitars waist had 'crept' under clamping pressure. That just sucks. So I went for a walk, kicked gravels and talked to myself for a couple hours. Then I heated up the iron, sharpened the knife, and took it apart again.
After mixing another batch of epoxy, I went with spool clamps this time. And I made a very close inspection of that seam. Maybe tonight I can move on to fixing something else on it.
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The side seam re-glue/re-do worked... it'll dress up fine. This evening's work was regluing a loose back brace. Just gob some Titebond in the crack, mop up the excess, and fit some old-school turnbuckle brace jacks here...
I'll start patching holes and closing cracks tomorrow night.
I'm tired... lites out. :P
Oh yeah, before I forget... I picked up a Blueridge guitar from the store this afternoon with a split bridge. No savin' this one; it'll have to be replaced. Pretty guitar, kind of an Asian import take on a Martin 000-45. Here's a few quick pictures.
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Very nice looking guitar!
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Yeah, that bridge looks well and truly cracked, alright.
I'v only laid hands on 2 or 3 Blueridges, but they seem to be a darn good guitar for the price. They're made by Saga, who also makes Regal resophonics - one of which is a short reach from this chair, and is, I must say, to my satisfaction.
Peter
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Incoming silly question time.
Doesn’t most wood glue bound stronger than the wood itself? The bridge crack, albeit in a bad place, looks ‘clean’. Wouldn’t bridge removal glue/ clamp and then reinstalling it work?
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Incoming silly question time.
Doesn’t most wood glue bound stronger than the wood itself? The bridge crack, albeit in a bad place, looks ‘clean’. Wouldn’t bridge removal glue/ clamp and then reinstalling it work?
That's actually a pretty good question Paul, because it gets repeated a lot when talking instrument repair.
This bridge is ebony, which has very small pores. It's a very dry, brittle wood to start with. It will take glue, but not well. Gluing it to something is easier than gluing it together. Like for instance, gluing an ebony fingerboard to a mahogany neck. Flat surface to flat surface... that works out okay. Not so much for little tiny surfaces. To make it this piece of ebony into a bridge, we drilled 6 holes in it, perfectly parallel to the grain further weakening it. Then the strings pull upward through those holes, and bend over a saddle putting stress right at its weakest point. It's an elegant but terrible design that works 98.4% of the time. Most of the time when they fail and split, the crack only appears between the pinholes. This one is an extreme case though... as you can see, the crack has run out all the way into the bridge wings. That's both rare, and the decision-maker for me. I could, and have successfully hydrated and reglued ebony bridges that split between the pinholes, even inlaid ebony in a couple to save them. Those guitars were cases where originality was a bit more of an issue.
For less than the amount of time required to remove the bridge, fix it, and reglue it, I can simply replace it, and not worry about whether the repair holds. Does that kinda' 'splain it? :D
*The HPL Martin job is going well... updates later.
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Time for post-game on the GPCPA5K...
After finding and fixing all the loose braces, I glued and cleated the top cracks. They had mostly swelled shut (because there's about 200% relative humidity in the air here in Virginia right now...) so a little squeeze of glue worked in and a pipe clamp spanning the top overnight. I glued-in a couple little spruce cleats to help bind it.
The ugly holes punched through the top and back were last. Spruce is a soft wood that carves like soap. I found a scrap of it in my box that was big enough to cover the damage, and close enough that someone could tell some effort was made to fix this poor guitar. Once shaped, I cut the hole out to an angular shape that matched the repair patch. I glued-in a backing veneer piece inside the guitar to give it a little more support and... well... there it is. There is no way to hide something like that without some radical finish work. I just tried to 'dirty it up' some to match the rest of the spruce top.
Fixing the shattered HPL was a little harder. I didn't really try to document this... it was aggravating and tedious, and I just wanted to get it done. Getting the misaligned pieces that were still intact was step one, then I used the Dremel router base and a downcut bit to trim out a semicircular cut. (it's a 1-3/4" dia. if you're curious) I made a patch out of plastic and some brownish walnut veneer. Again, no earthly way to hide a repair to formica... just make it a strong stable fix, and as neat as possible. The only thing to glue this stuff with is CA glue.
I came in right about where I thought... 6 hours, and a set of strings. I'll run it by the store in a little bit.
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:)
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That looks great.
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This year is going by in a flash... and I kinda' knew it would be this way.
I'm completely consumed with the final chapter at work, training my replacements. The three of them are going to be taking over very soon, and they're doing great. I'll basically be done working by the end of October and using up paid leave in November, just answering the phone for emergencies. My last official day is 12/1/2024, but that falls on the Sunday after the Thanksgiving holiday. The last two days I'll report for duty will be Monday and Tuesday 11/25-26. I'll turn in keys, uniforms, and turn my service truck in to the Garage for inspection, and clear out. I plan to catch a ride home with the guy who hired me 20-some-odd years ago. We live pretty close... and we are close.
The Shop is staying busy enough that I believe it'll do what I need it to in the way of supporting my health insurance plan, post-employment. The store keeps me a nice steady supply of work, and they kinda' triage for me down there. I haven't been posting that work for a couple reasons... One, a lot of it is totally boring, just pays really good. Two, I'm busy as dammit, and I ain't got time to do a documentary, then narrate it... just fix it and get the bench ready for what's next. Three, this is a nice, small little internet community made up of folks I mostly know who we are, but it's still part of the larger world of... cyber-whatever. And I've just started having mixed feelings about posting other folks' stuff out there. Nobody ever said anything, and maybe nobody cares, but it seems like there ain't a day goes by there isn't some hacking or mischief somewhere. I don't see how innocently posting pictures of guitar repair could be used for maliciousness, but then I don't have a criminal mind, and I don't even like computers. So I decided to keep what I post confined to my projects or at least projects for people I know don't care.
I'll put something up before long... I've got a Stelling Bellflower in for some fretwork that belongs to a good friend, and Honeytone client. Stelling Banjo Works is O-O-B now https://www.stellingbanjo.com/ (https://www.stellingbanjo.com/) but they were major influence in the 70's and 80's... Geoff Stelling put the whammy on Gibson to start build something serious again.
Stay tuned...
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Reading over the piece on Stelling banjo made me recognize once again how lucky we are to have Alembic and other exceptional luthiers among us. People who live and work, not to make a dollar but to produce the finest instruments possible that meet the needs of musicians. I hope to never see Alembic and other small shops go the way of Stelling. It frightens me to think of a world where the only option for a musician is mass produced stuff made but AI driven machines.
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I've never asked Mica, but I bet Alembic has the same if not more difficult job of locating, training, and then retaining the kind of talent it takes to build the kind of highly custom work they do. There's been a lot of talented folks through that shop over the 50+ years. People move on.
Living where I do, I've just happened to know several of the guys who worked for Geoff Stelling. I've often mentioned Ward Elliott on here... one of my closest friends and definitely my top mentor. He built the Stelling mandolins for a time. Ward didn't get his start there though, he apprenticed with a violin-maker in the Pacific Northwest back in the 70's. He doesn't scratch-build much anymore, mostly does repairs, but that's really underselling him... that guy can take a bag of busted parts and produce a vintage Martin from splinters. He doesn't advertise anywhere... 100% word-of-mouth business model. His shop is always busy.
I know both of these guys too, both Stelling alumnus, and world-class builders of guitars and mandolins. (other stuff too...) They probably spend more time just doing repair work these days too. Check out some of their work.
John Hamlett - https://www.hamlettinstruments.com/ (https://www.hamlettinstruments.com/)
David Houchens - https://bryceinstruments.com/index.html?m (https://bryceinstruments.com/index.html?m)
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With about 30 days of duty left to pull at the Waterworks, and that time mostly consumed with intense training for The Greg-lings, my application for State Retirement has been approved as of this afternoon. The only thing left to do (with the State at least) is name beneficiaries. Sad, and pitifully true... I kinda' don't care. Let the State figure it out... if my Parents are living, them, if not, it goes to next of kin. Whatever. Ick. That'll be a sh!tshow I'm glad to miss. Like holiday gatherings.
The Shop... oh boy. I've had more work than I could do. I just finished up a genuine German Hofner with a seized and stripped truss-rod. That was fun. A handful of bridge reglues. Got a D-35 in with loose back braces. Got a beautiful old Czech viola for restoration in. Just finished up a setup on a Chinese upright, and got another upright coming in for bridge, soundpost and strings tomorrow night.
I talked to the local Commissioner of Revenue about a Business Liscense. I talked to the bank about a business account. I think I'll take the Scroll Shop public in January 2025.
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Greg, Hearing about all that repair work makes me wish you were here in So Cal. Acoustic repairs require skill and experience. Sounds like your going to be busy fixin' and playin'.
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Congratulations on all fronts, Greg! 😊
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Nice viola!
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Voila, Viola! Done with repairs and setup. It turned out nice. There is even some 'bearclaw' figure in the spruce top... not much, but it's there.
This one is a gift to Kat, fiddler and bandleader with the Wayfaring Whistlepigs, and she often stands in with New River Bound. We thought a low frequency bowed sound in the mix might be even more interesting.
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More low frequency strings is always a good thing!
Looks like Kat approves. Nice job.
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Very nice!
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12/1/2024...
A few pictures from my last day in uniform... a month ago today, 11/1. As of midnight last night, I have retired from public service. I'll be in this dusty old shop most mornings now.
People keep asking how it feels to be retired. The only thing I miss is these kids right here. I'm so proud of them all, and I do miss the daily interaction with them. Working with 20-somethings will kinda' make you forget that you are 50-something. I'm not somebody who lives with a lot of regrets, but I wish I'd had several more years with the ones who are taking on the responsibilities of running Groundwater Operations. On their worst day though, they are still better Operators than me. The only thing they lack is experience... and I couldn't give them that. They'll be okay... reckon I will be too. I'll drop in to visit sometime but no hovering... when an Operator is assigned to a Treatment Plant, we say they are 'in responsible charge' of that asset. It's a constant reminder that what you do, or fail to do on duty directly affects other people. I've been that person for long enough, now to be relieved by people I personally trained... what's better than that?!
Like I said upthread, I don't intend to post much here... just don't feel right posting about other folks stuff. I do have a few unfinished projects that might be interesting. There's the Kay cello-to-bass conversion, a National Duolian metal-body guitar I built a replacement neck for, and a couple upright basses that are waiting in the corner of hopeless cases. We'll see. I'm happily busy doing repair and setup work for Fret Mill Music and Franklin Music too, plus whatever walks in. Gotta' pay bills first. 😉
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You are in a better building now.
Connecting with co-workers is valuable. Looks like you did well.
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Congrats, Greg! I look forward to many posts of amazing repairs!
Peter
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Congrats! Turning the page and starting a new chapter.
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Greg, Congratulations! Picker and luthier...will be fun.
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congrats! and keep posting projects and interesting repairs, clearly a number of us get a kick outta them, and I learn some repair tricks...Tony. Speaking of tricks, I figured one out yesterday; if you lose the little steel rods out of Sperzel locking tuners, just cut a piece of coat hanger wire and file the ends flat; works fine...
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I learned a great one yesterday, Tony, from my friend and mentor Ward Elliott. He used to work for Geoff Stelling building mandolins, but knew a couple guys in the banjo shop. It so happens I'm in the middle of refretting a Stelling banjo... and their frets are glued-in. So you have to clean the fret slots out with a tiny router bit, then glue the new frets back in. Keeping in mind - this fingerboard is bound, so the fret tang has to be nipped, and filed, each fret has to be individually fitted to the slot where it belongs. This is tedious work that a jeweler would probably enjoy, and be much better at doing! For me, the worst part was Dremel-ing out those fret slots. 😬
I really couldn't understand why they would do such a thing, but every single Stelling I ever worked on was like this. It was just their thing. Anyway, Ward told me what the hack was for this yesterday evening. He said they would wax the fingerboard, carefully keeping the wax out of the fret slots. Fill each slot with slow-set epoxy, and press pre-fit frets into each one. (they should be kinda' loose) Then they turned it face down onto a machined flat surface, like a granite countertop, with a waxed coating, and clamped until the epoxy set. The result was frets so level they didn't need dressing. (most banjos don't have radiused fingerboards... they're flat) All that was left to do was some minor cleanup. That's the kind of inside stuff you can't get from just anywhere.
RE-fretting one is a PITB. But I got it. I made some cork-lined cauls for cradling the neck, and clamped three or four frets at a time.
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I taped off the ebony fingerboard and polished up all the frets. Reassembled, and setup the Stelling "Bellflower". What a great banjo! It's nice to work on a fine machine. Geoff Stelling had all his own hardware made and engraved... classy. Lots of detail work in his banjos. Note the compensated nut... another little extra. He really thought about stuff.
The fella who owns this one also owns one of our banjos, (#94-18) and we go way back. He came by to pick it up this morning, and we played a few tunes, then went for a hike to catch up on local bluegrass scene gossip.
I've got a couple jobs almost ready to go back to the store, and pick up more, but I'm meeting another customer in town tomorrow afternoon anyway, so it'll keep. Trying to not make unnecessary trips.
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nice banjo! weird way to do the frets though, but they must have their reasons...you should get a flex shaft attachment for your Dremel, would make the job easier or upgrade to a Foredom if you use it enough...
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I was unaware that Stelling had become past tense; bummer!
Peter
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Congrats on the retirement and the beginning of the next chapter!
Have a little left to go on my side, but look forward to the day I can apply my efforts elsewhere.
Keep the updates coming from the shop. Great and inspiring work you do there!
Cheers!
Ed
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Hey thanks, Ed!
I just started a new week in here this morning. Been making a conscious effort at staying out of the shop on weekends so I can come back fresh on Monday. I'm trying to keep it a part-time job, being in here for 4-6 hours a day. Realistically, I'm doing good if half of that is billable time, so I need to make it count.
This week presents an old Alvarez classical guitar with a compromised top, two Seagull guitars that'll be made into one, and an upright bass in general disrepair. My job is to get the bass to a saleable condition, take the neck from one Seagull guitar with a destroyed top, and set it in the other Seagull guitar that has a neck issue. The Alvarez will be a longer-term job, and it's possible some more work came in the store over the weekend. First up this morning is a cello I glued the fingerboard back on Friday. Nothing to do but clean up some glue and restring it.
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Here's a fun little Christmas present project I did this week.
My Pops has this little dog, Rosie. She's a spoiled-rotten Boston Terrier. Her dial is either on 0, or 14... meaning what time she isn't chasing squirrels or deer out of the yard, she is resting up for the next round.
Anyway... he wanted one of these kinda' trendy 'Man & Dog' figurine sets for his desk. I drew up the patterns by freehand and French curves, and transferred them to a few interesting pieces of wood from my scrap bin... poplar, walnut, cherry, and one really unusual piece of pine, with birdseye figuring.
Next came the bandsaw. (watch the fingers, the push-stick is in my mouth there...) Then shaping out with Dremel tool and various sizes of carving bits and sanding drums. I flattened and thicknessed each piece on the belt sander (sneezed for a while) then beveled the sharp edges off with fine sandpaper. After that, a little clear poly finish to seal the pores.
To give them a finished look, I mounted each piece to a base with countersunk screws, and placed some cork feet on each. Signed and dated the underside. It was a fun project... the second set with cherry base went to my neighbor Larry, who has a Yappin' Spaniel named Levi. We'll just leave that alone... ::)
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Really like that Man and Dog figurine.
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VERY nice... Merry Christmas to you and yours!
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:) Nice work!
When I read "the push-stick is in my mouth", not yet having seen the picture, I thought you were holding the stick in your mouth to push the wood through the band saw; which was a bit difficult to picture in my head.
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Cool!
Bill, tgo
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Way cool!
Peter
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Nicely done!
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Thanks fellas... the Ol' Man was pretty tickled with his present, and already made a place for it on his desk. I may make some more sets another time.
I'm back to work on string-ed things this morning. First up; a classical guitar with a chunk missing from the side of the lower bout, and then a mandolin I have to fit a new floating bridge to the top. I need more coffee.
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Greg, next you need to make a gone fishin' sign. So much for retiring lol
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I went to the Roanoke County Administration Building yesterday and applied for a business license for the Scroll Shop. The Planning Office (upstairs from Comm. of Revenue) approved it quickly. There wasn't much traffic in there on New Year's Eve. They will file the paperwork tomorrow. I may eventually file with the State Corporation Commission as an LLC, but for now I'm operating my little business as a sole proprietorship. Let's see if I can keep from wrecking the train.
I did stop and pick up some more work from Fret Mill Music... enough to keep me busy into next week. A banjo to install a 5th string tuner on, an Aria 12-string guitar with several issues, and an antique Slingerland tenor banjo for a new head and setup. Aside from work for the store, I already had a 70's Martin D-18 on the bench for frets and setup, an Asian upright bass for minor repair, (looked like a .22 bullet hole... but no exit hole?) and an 'estate' fiddle that I got instructions to "just get it playable". Honestly, I think the case may be more interesting than the fiddle. It's definitely older than the fiddle is. The fiddle is kinda' strange too... it's pretty well-made, post-war German factory. (note the label identifies as Western Germany) At glance, a violin shop notices a one-piece back on a fiddle quickly, because they are typically a bookmatched piece of flamed maple, this one looked like a one-piece, but on a very close inspection of the edges here, you can see it has a laminated back. It's three ply, with maple inside and out. I've seen laminated construction fiddles before, but I just wouldn't have expected that on this quality instrument. [shrug] ???
You just never know what's going to walk in here. Hopefully it'll be enough work to keep the lights on.
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Love that case.
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Here's a project I took in that'll be a real test. The store took it in as-is, and I gotta' get it playable and saleable. She's a pretty sad case right now, but this is a completely restorable guitar. Due to the various damage (and random acts of red-neckery) it has little to no value as a collectors guitar anymore, but it's a guitar player's dream. 1950-51 Gibson, most likely J-45. (remotely possible it was a J-50, but I don't think so) The factory order number is very close to my '51 LG-2, but a bit earlier. I haven't checked the books yet. Everything else checks out, so I'm pretty confident about what she is... or was.
Most of the repairs here are pretty straightforward. As bad as it looks, it really isn't... most importantly, it's all there. Almost every brace in the guitar is either completely loose or sprung. The top has a center seam separation, and a long split down the bass side. Both of these are very clean and should go back together nicely once properly humidified. There's another crack beside the fingerboard running out to the soundhole, typical to Gibson guitars. That'll get fixed too. Additionally, the headstock is cracked behind the nut, but it's very clean and looks fresh... I don't even think it will show once finished. Amazingly, the sides and back are intact and healthy, not a single crack anywhere in them.
Then there's the obvious; the guitar is about 95% stripped. It looks like someone gave up trying to get the chocolate brown off the sides down around the tail-end. So it'll need some finish. I'm pretty sure this one had a dark sunburst going by the overspray on the X-braces at the soundhole. (which is also why I assume this is a 45 and not a 50...) The good news, it doesn't appear to have been sanded, so I think just chemically stripped and scraped. I don't think it's bridge has ever been off.
The first major thing I'll probably do is carefully disassemble this guitar, taking the back off to re-build it's insides. I'll ask my buddy Ward for some coaching, but this project is something I wanted to do... if only to test myself. I only hope I don't get too attached to it once it's done!
For now, it's sealed in a plastic bag with a handful of humidifier boxes. I'll look at it again in a week or so. Here's some before pics.
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Couple more pics... showing some of the issues to be addressed.
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Looking forward to seeing this rehabilitation project take shape. Love to see the progress shots, as you break down the damage, and how you'll repair it. It may not end up as a collectable piece, but if it can be made playable, I would think that's more desirable around here. Keep the pictures coming, and enjoy the process!
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Gee, a Gibson with a headstock break - now there's a shocker.......
Might I posit a couple of queries?1) What's with the half-circles on the bridge wings? Are those breaks?2) Is the headplate present? If not, someone in the builders' subforum on mylespaul.com could no doubt point at a source for one, logo 7 all.
Peter
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That is some project! I have a couple questions in response to "it has little to no value as a collectors guitar anymore, but it's a guitar player's dream."
1 - what makes this guitar a guitar player's dream?
2 - and (if you don't want to address this question that's completely understandable) given that it has no value as a collector's guitar anymore, will the shop still be able to sell it at a profit with what they will have in it after they've paid you for all that labor?
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Gee, a Gibson with a headstock break - now there's a shocker.......
Might I posit a couple of queries?1) What's with the half-circles on the bridge wings? Are those breaks?2) Is the headplate present? If not, someone in the builders' subforum on mylespaul.com could no doubt point at a source for one, logo 7 all.
Peter
The little semicircles you see on the bridge wings are relief carvings, Coz... (I wondered the same thing for a minute..., like maybe it got clamped too hard in a reglue, and crushed the wood) then I noticed similar carvings up the center of the back of the neck. And I was like... what the heck were they doing?! Is the truss rod dorked or something? See, my mind was engaged at deciphering what repair this was part of. It isn't a repair at all... just someone's idea of artistic flair. Go figure. The question now is what to do about it? There are a couple options, and of course I haven't decided on anything. I could easily inlay some rosewood chips into the bridge wings and flush them up. It would almost be invisible if I grain match well enough. The neck is another foxhunt altogether. The carving isn't very deep. 50's Gibson necks are pretty chunky... so I could feasibly reshape the neck and lose those carvings into sawdust. Everything about that idea irritates me. I love the big chunky neck on my '51 LG-2. So I could try to inlay a thin 'skunk stripe' of mahogany in it, and finish over it. The finish on these guitars is so dark I doubt it'd be noticed if it was seen. Or... I could just accept that this guitar was somebody's object of imagination, and leave both as-is.
Regarding the headplate; I don't believe it had one. Study these pictures of the headstock face on my LG-2, especially around the edges where it's been scuffed up. I think they just shot the face black, and silkscreened a gold logo on them by the time these guitars rolled out. If I'm right, both of them predate Les Paul by a short few months. I have a couple logos that are close to this gold block letter one... (they were for 1950's Gibson banjos of course) I haven't checked yet to see if they are scaled the same, but I bet they are.
For sure, I will likely avail myself of some Gibson folks for a few pointers. Particularly on finish. It'd be easy to copy my LG-2, but I'm not sure that's the thing to do. J-bodies kinda' had their own shtick.
That is some project! I have a couple questions in response to "it has little to no value as a collectors guitar anymore, but it's a guitar player's dream."
1 - what makes this guitar a guitar player's dream?
2 - and (if you don't want to address this question that's completely understandable) given that it has no value as a collector's guitar anymore, will the shop still be able to sell it at a profit with what they will have in it after they've paid you for all that labor?
Well, those are both good questions Dave. :)
A Gibson J-45 is kind of an American Classic. It's one of those guitars the guitar players used to seek out. As time has marched on though, the old ones that survived intact are so expensive now that everyday players have a hard time affording them. It becomes a major investment finding a vintage J-45 in original condition. Even more expensive when you are looking for one in the pre-1946 years. This guitar, once repaired, will no longer be in original condition, as that was destroyed long ago. It will however be a very nice playable guitar, and truly a vintage instrument. A player who doesn't mind that it's a rebuilt guitar, and not one in original condition is going to love it. I know I sure would.
Ken didn't tell me what he put into the husk here, and I didn't ask, but I'd guess not much. This will be one of those projects where I work on it when I have time. How much they can sell it for really has a lot to do with how good of a job I do at restoring it. I'm highly motivated to do well anyway, but also, I just love old guitars. If I didn't already have a vintage reissue J-35 and the little sister to this very guitar I'd be scheming now. ;D
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that will be nice when it's done, try to check the finish when it's done so it doesn't look new. I know with solidbodies people have put them in the freezer to force checking, but that may be too much of a shock to an acoustic; maybe the fridge?
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that will be nice when it's done, try to check the finish when it's done so it doesn't look new. I know with solidbodies people have put them in the freezer to force checking, but that may be too much of a shock to an acoustic; maybe the fridge?
Allow me to argue against this route. Another word for "checking" is "damage". Yes, you see it on many older guitars; that just tells me their previous caretakers did not, in fact, take proper care of them.
Peter (who is aghast at the present trend of "relic jobs", AKA paying more for a pre-damaged instrument)
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There's a lot to think about for sure, even before we get to applying finish. Honestly, if it had any finish at all, even rough finish... I wouldn't be thinking about it. But other than the section of the body around the tail-end it's been stripped. The top is bare wood. If it weren't for seeing some dark overspray on the X-brace just inside the soundhole I'd have guessed this was a J-50. (hell, it may be...) You be the judge. It kinda' doesn't matter... at the time they were virtually identical guitars other than the finish. Sure, I could just leave this one a J-50 style natural top. That is easier. It's not a particularly ugly top either... couple scars, couple nicks and dents. The cracks should close up tight enough to not be noticed. Maybe less so under natural finish than a dark sunburst.
Then there's this- I'm not sold on the idea of trying to replicate the 'correct' 50's Gibson burst and then advertise it that way, because no matter what I do somebody will point out this or that isn't exactly proportional to whatever. And they'll be right... because it's a refinished guitar.
I do feel confident about being able to mimic the finish of my '51 and it would at least look period-correct, just not sure that's the thing to do. I believe these guitars were built within months, possibly weeks of each other based on the numbers. I'll be doing a lotta' reading and looking at pictures. Most of the 50's Gibson J-45 guitars thst show up in a search now are reissues. They do a pretty good job with those in Bozeman, (got one of the '36 J-35 RI's...) but I'd rather look at an original or two.
Maybe the hardest part here is that there's no way to hide a lot of what's happened to this guitar... might be best not to try. Get it stable, make it play right, get some good finish on it so it doesn't go crazy when the seasons change.
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Peter, I like checking; my '60 melody maker has the most amazing checking and I love it, and a 60 plus year old guitar is just not gonna look new, you really take the shine off it or something to look right...I don't really go for relic jobs either, but a guitar that old all shiny would look wrong...I met a guy my Dad knew who had a '57 strat that was refinished-I was horrified; not only had he cut the value roughly in half it was all shiny and wrong, looked brand new...just wrong...Tony.
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I don't where the line is... guessing probably different for everyone, but I think there is a difference between a relic'd guitar, one that's intended to look abused, damaged, wood missing, what-have-you, and an aged finish on a guitar that's meant to simulate a very old finish. That would include, but not be limited to lacquer checking. I'm convinced there is art to performing this type of work. Not only that, but people are willing to pay a premium for it. I'm using as an example the Gibson Murphy Lab guitars, or Martin's Aged Authentic series guitars. I may not be willing to pay what they want for this treatment on a new guitar, but I wouldn't flinch at one secondhand. I can see advantages to it as well. For one, you don't sweat the first scratch or ding in a new guitar. I'm still in that phase with a fairly new Martin guitar, dreading that first dammit; after a banged-it-against-something moment. I'll get over it, because I bought it to play, just like all of them, but still... if you play them they get bumped around. That's just life. Just don't do dumb things.
Anyway, I lack the skills or tools required to pull off an 'aged' finish convincingly, but if I did, it'd be worth discussing for this Gibson J-45 project. Not sure how I'm going to come down on it. At the moment, I'm leaning towards going back with the original dark brown on the sides and back, and leave the top natural. I had a fleeting thought the other day about a ebony/black top. I did that once to a Kalamazoo archtop with an ugly repair even a dark sunburst wouldn't have hidden. And my Cousin has an L-00 "Tuxedo" done up that way. I'm anxious to get Ward's opinion. I reckon he's still snowed-in up there.
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Answering Tony (the "Quote" button isn't working for me today....)
Honest checking is not the same as fake checking - but still not ideal. Someone, sometime, exposed it to too-fast temperature changes.
I worked with guys who gigged a '59 ES-330 & a '59 Strat every day, and their original finishes were pristine. And they were 2 of the loveliest fiddles I ever did see!
Peter
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True, forced checking is not ideal, I'm just saying that the finish should be aged some way so it doesn't look all shiny and new; looks fine on a restored car but somehow looks wrong on a guitar...maybe because it's wood?
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So this guitar-playin' buddy of mine, a retired State Trooper, flips guitars, pocket watches, chainsaws... just about anything imaginable... what we call a horse-trader. He's just good at it. The other day -purely by coincidence- he gets into a deal for an old Gibson J-45. Wouldn't you know, it turns out to be a 1949, very similar to the one I have in the shop, but in very clean original condition. I imagine he'll keep it a while, then decide to either keep it and sell his other Gibson, (a '34 Orig. Jumbo Reissue he's had for years) or sell this vintage beauty for a tidy profit.
In the meantime, I get to go to school on it. It needs some very minor work... the pickguard is lifting slightly, and there are a couple cracks that need addressing. The original tuning machines have had the buttons replaced by some silly-looking faux pearl knobs. We're going to preserve the original machines (with correct cream/white knobs installed) and mount a new set of Golden Age machines on the guitar for ease of use and tuning precision. I'll do a little setup on it, and we'll have us a jam with some Gibson guitars.
Couple pics. Big difference between this and the case full of J-45 parts I've got! And I have always liked that Original Jumbo concept guitar... if he lets go of that one I may hafta' get creative. ::)
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Now, my tastes in Gibby acoustics has always run the to the very big (J-200) or veru small (L-00) - but I most certainly would not say no to either one of those! Very lovely.
Peter
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How's this hit y'all for my new logo...? I'll work on the graphic art with my buddy John, but "Scroll Shop", using the scroll-f-holes for the S's.
I usually mark a bass bridge to remind me of its orientation when I'm fitting it; in the past I've always used my initials interlinked. I think it'll be this going forward... cartoonish and offset.
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Looks nice, do you make those bridges?
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I start with pre-cut bridge blanks, from a couple different suppliers*, and cut/fit them to each bass. The whole process takes about an hour or so. Sometimes longer, depending upon the complexity... some basses' tops are not exactly contoured evenly. Usually when I'm cutting a new bridge, I'm also cutting a new soundpost at the same time. ;)
*one of my main suppliers for bass parts, International Violin Co. As you can see, you can pay whatever price point you want for a bridge. It all comes down to the quality and cut of the maple. https://www.internationalviolin.com/parts/bridges/bass-bridges/ (https://www.internationalviolin.com/parts/bridges/bass-bridges/)
IVC is a small, family-owned/operated business in Maryland. I've been talking to Cecilia there for 30+ years. (I think she's been there since they opened...) Love 'em. Great people. :)
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Both are cool, Greg. I have an interlocked-initials logo myself (designed by my Granny when I was a wee tyke who she thought was a natural artist......), so I relate to the current logo - but the ƒ-holes are way groovy, too.
Hard call, but if pressed for an opinion I'd probably go with the new one.
Peter
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Just a little PSA... all Mighty Mite replacement necks for Fender products, are on closeout pricing. I don't need any, but I thought maybe a couple of you guys that occasionally do parts builds might be interested.
https://www.stewmac.com/closeouts/ (https://www.stewmac.com/closeouts/)
(scroll down thru...)
I'm noticing them doing this more. Maybe canning a few slow-moving products, or inventory that takes up a lot of space...? Maybe they don't make as much on these...? I don't know but Stewart MacDonald is definitely changing things up.
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Too cold to play outside... but pretty nice in here. I get a lot done when there's no distractions. :)
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Nice picture of your shop, Greg.
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Greg...So what is "too cold to go out and play" in your neck of the woods? Today in Minnesota it was -18 below zero (that's F degrees not C) when I got up to take the dog for his AM walk. He hit the deck with a bound as he usually does but then quickly looked up at me with the look of "I can do this later when its warmer" and then made a beeline for the back door. Almost knocked me over to get inside first. Before I left for work he was asleep again but not before nosing his bed over about 2 feet so that it was directly above a floor heat grate.
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Well, it's not that cold down this-aways, but in the morning it'll be in the single digits. A light snow late this afternoon instantly froze to the driveway making it too slippery to drive on. I guess all over this side of the country this has been one heck of a cold spell, and still a ways to go.
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Single-digit cold is my outdoor activity limit. I can deal with mid-20's okay. I worked out in it for years, and had the gear for that. I like to walk every day, about 6 miles is my regular loop. But I don't go in hard rain, high wind, or extreme cold. I may go today if it hits the forecasted 27°.
Down here, our homes just aren't designed or built for that extreme... the plumbing, insulation, none of it. Fortunately, these cold spells seldom last more than a week or so. Which is good; people make bad decisions out of desperation and wind up burning down the house.
My shop is insulated better than my house is, so it's quite comfortable in here. There is that one oil-filled radiator there... it's on low, and the thermostat is set at 65°. I keep a small recirculation fan running in here. The floor gets cold, but as long as I'm working on my mats or sitting at the bench, it's fine.
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I haven't posted much from my shop lately... I'm in here early-mornings M-F, and sometimes on Sunday afternoons I set up a little work for Mondays. Tuesday mornings, I knock off and go play music with a couple buddies in a cool little coffee shop, then make deliveries of completed work and pick up more. So this has turned into a decent little part-time gig. I'm currently running about a week to a week-and-a-half backlog.
I don't post on stuff that belongs to the store's customers, but this one is a walk-in, and without really identifying the whole she-bang, I gotta' brag on my buddy and mentor Ward Elliott. I got this early 70's D-35 in for a lifting bridge, and the original pickguard rolling up. I heat-lamped the bridge and slipped the seam knife under it, and it eased right off, no mess, no drama... and I was met with this; (check the pic)
This bridge was replaced, and the intonation corrected on this guitar by my old friend many years ago. I immediately recognized his trademark locating holes for the bridge saddle from his jig, custombuilt for this job, and the relocated bridge pin holes so perfectly plugged, inside and out. I have no doubt he scratch-made this bridge so that the footprint fit the existing one on the guitar, no touch-up required. I texted him a picture, a Thank You, and a reminder that I owe him a sandwich next time we hang out. I'm so used to finding a big mess under these, that I was overjoyed to see such a nice job. All that's left here is a little clean up and reglue. I could almost do this one with one hand and my eyes closed.
I'll have a little more to do with the pickguard replacement... it had shrunken, and split the top at the infamous B-string location as well as the lower edge. I've already closed and cleated the cracks, still have to *seal the bare wood, cut, fit, and apply a new adhesive-backed pickguard to the guitar. (*until sometime in 1985, Martin pickguards were stuck directly to the bare top, and finished over, after that, the pickguard was applied to the finished guitars)
This is about all I'll do on a Sunday... brush a quick coat of Deft lacquer on here and let it be curing overnight. In the heat of the day, there's just too much going on in here, too much dust in the air, too many things moving around. And I can't be sitting around watching paint dry... ;D
*It seems like I spend an awful lot of time fixing tragically wrong predictive text. >:(
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So, do you get free coffee at the coffee shop gig?
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Ted and me buy the first cup, and our kind Barrister refills us while we're playing. :)
https://www.firstxicoffee.com/ (https://www.firstxicoffee.com/)
Nah Dave, I really wasn't trying to make a gig outta' this per se, but since retirement I just wanted one day a week to be musically accountable to someone else... to sit across from them and have to play something intelligible. Something about being out of the house gives me a fence to swing for. Ted and I play music together anyway, but usually in a band context with me on bass, so it's a good opportunity to kick around new ideas or work out glitchy things. Or just hang out, drink some good coffee and pick a while. We planned it so we'd be in there at a kinda' off-peak time, but there's usually a small handful of folks. Sure enough, a month into our little coffehouse guitar jam, they asked us to play an advertised event on a Thursday evening, and "see how it goes". Dang-it. ::) ;D
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:)
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Good Morning from the Scroll Shop... got kind of a long-shot favor to ask... I took in a Gibson ES-150 guitar to evaluate and fix up for a resale. It needs a couple things straightened out to maximize value in this resale, but overall it's in decent shape.
I can handle the binding replacement... I even have a few long strips of old binding salvaged from donor guitars to fix the fingerboard edge with. Replacing the junk tuners isn't a problem. I am stumped on replacing the missing first fret inlay. I found a whole set of amber pearloid ones at Philadelphia Tool...
https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/inlays-and-side-dots/les-paul-trapezoid-crown-yellow-celluloid-inlays/ (https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/inlays-and-side-dots/les-paul-trapezoid-crown-yellow-celluloid-inlays/)
...and that might be my huckleberry unless someone here knows a good source for one first-fret pearloid trapezoid, kinda' aged yellow. Anybody got an idea? TIA.
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Well, you could just send me the guitar and let see if playing it for a decade or 2 gives me any ideas......
Peter (who adores P-90s, especially on a hollow-body)
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Well... that'd be awesome wouldn't it? ;D I'd like to test-pilot this one for a while too, and yeah, P-90's are my happy place.
Just to be clear, this isn't my guitar... I was giving an estimate on stages of repair to make it more attractive/saleable. The customer has decided for now to stick with an 'as-is' sale, so it really doesn't matter unless they change their mind later and decide to proceed with the work.
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Knowing nothing of the market for these guitars and for this particular vintage, I would have guessed that the cost of the repairs would have been less than the sales value added to the instrument.
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I would think the repairs would be more than worth it, and I totally agree on the p90's; when I swapped out the humbuckers on Lenny Kravitz's flying v (it came outta the Vancouver Hard Rock) the guitar really came alive, it sounded kinda dull before...
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Knowing nothing of the market for these guitars and for this particular vintage, I would have guessed that the cost of the repairs would have been less than the sales value added to the instrument.
When I worked for the Evil Empire ('83-'84) we had one in the store that I could have had (like the 125, 220, 330......) for $150 - if I'd been willing to lie to make enough at GC to afford them.
On Reverb right now, the asking prices range from $2200 to $6500.
Peter
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One of those time where I am quite happy to let the sales boys handle these situations... because that's what they do. I just fix guitars. I was kinda' looking forward to working on this one, and I still might get to eventually... but it's someone else's call now.
If nothing else, I found out where to get some aged pearloid trapezoids... I like Philadelphia L&T anyway.
Back to work on the pile. Got a client coming at 8:30 for a quick setup adjustment, then I'm out for our Tuesday morning coffee and guitar/mandolin jam at First XI Coffee. Then downtown to drop off/pick up more work at the store.
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Ed of H!
Nice work as always!
Though the push stick in the mouth while using band saw would make for a fun story at the ER! LOL
Love the thread and all the cool projects - keep up the good work!
Zoey, our dog, is very much the center of her very narcissistic world, even when I'm trying to get work done, she insists on being involved in everything!
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Hey Ed!
Yeah since retirement from the Waterworks gig last year, the Scroll Shop here is my day-job now. I miss the kids (really gotta' quit callin' them that..) I left running things, but they are about all I miss. The morning commute from the house to the shop here takes two sips of coffee if I walk slow. I don't post as much because most of the work I'm doing is for customers of a couple music stores and a teaching studio. I started feeling a little weird posting other folks' guitars, etc, so I save it for stuff I'm working on for either me or someone who I know won't care. There's that, and it's mostly just scut work... not particularly interesting. I sure am enjoying doing it though, and the flexibility of making my own schedule is great. What's more, it's turned into a pretty good part-time job... a steady stream of setup and repair work runs through here weekly.
The Dog & Man figurine project was fun... I did those for my Dad and his little dog Rosie, and an extra set went to a neighbor who has a Yapping Spaniel I like to mess with. I get my fill playing games with Rosie every week too... that dog is like a golfball teed up in a tile bathroom.
Hoping you end up with that '76 Series I for a project. That purpleheart is some pretty stuff. ;)
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I'm jealous!
unfortunately, a few years left for me before I can punch out of that clock, and since my work, (I'm a re-recording mixer) has not been the same since the writer strikes, actors strikes, covid, and work contraction affecting Hollywood, I feel fortunate to still be working as much as I do.
However, it does get in the way of fun projects!!
Working on these wonderful basses are a fun puzzle.
The reward for me being I get to play it when its done!
Cannot say enough great things about this club and the people like yourself who reach out to strangers with incredible help.
Very much admire your work and the projects you have done.
Glad to see you are enjoying the work after retirement! Jealous of that arduous commute!
Keep up the great work and the updates and projects( with ownership permission of course!)
Thanks again
Talk soon
E
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Thought I'd share a couple pictures of a pretty cool project I just finished up. This one wasn't for either of the stores or the teaching studio, in fact this old banjo is actually going up for sale now that it's playable/saleable, along with a couple more instruments I've repaired for this guy. He's a longtime player, collector and seller, now retired and downsizing.
So anyway, the thing was literally a case full of parts when I got it last Winter. (sorry, no before pics...) Most of the work was involved with the neck. The old binding was a crumbled mess. The pearl and abalone inlays were very fragile and several pieces were missing. The angle of the dowelstick from the neck-through construction of the time was tragically shallow, and had been drilled for a crude reinforcement called a "shackle" commonly seen on turn-of-the-century banjos. The pot assembly was in remarkably good shape. To start with, it was still fairly true and round, very little warping. Most of the hooks and nuts were there and matched. The nickel plating looked nice, and a bit worn off to the brass sleeve of the spun-over rim. The original tailpiece was date-stamped May, 1884. This was a nice banjo. I was asked to return it to playable condition, and make it presentable, but leave the patina of 140 years.
I did away with the original dowelstick. Amputation? Yeah, I guess. I did save it, but it's function has been replaced by a modern coordinator rod that secures the neck to the shell by way of a pair of lag bolts threaded into the heel of the neck. The neck heel is fitted to the round rim at the draught angle desired. The rod can be adjusted for length at the tailpiece end by its threads, and locked in place by the 1/2" nuts. This also meant the square hole in the rim once occupied by the dowelstick and screw hole at the the opposite had to be plugged and sealed. I made a wood plug to fit exactly, a piece of dowel, epoxied in place, flushed up both sides, then hid my work under a decorative plate fastened to the inside. The outside I hid under a small piece of aluminum tape behind the tailpiece bracket... seen, but probably unnoticed. After the structure work on the shell was done, it was a matter of drilling and tapping, then fitting the old neck back to its pot assembly.
When I was sure everything was going to line up right... well... reassembly. I put a new 'Renaissance' style head on, and put it all back together. The new synthetic gut strings are still stretching out.
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Finished pictures... (in my coffee break chair) This one checks out next week, but my banjo test pilot is coming by this weekend to give it a run.
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This was a nice banjo. I was asked to return it to playable condition, and make it presentable, but leave the patina of 140 years.
In the vintage motorcycle community, this is known as doing a "rusteration".
The new synthetic gut strings are still stretching out.
I assume that is different than nylon? How so?
As always, excellent work, my friend!
Peter
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Thats a puzzle for sure!
I wouldn't know the first thing to do with that.
Beautiful work as always!
That fret board is a thing of beauty...love the scrolling.
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The new synthetic gut strings are still stretching out.
I assume that is different than nylon? How so?
As always, excellent work, my friend!
Peter
Nah, Nylgut... that's gotta' mean nylon... I suppose it's just a trade name for the brand. You can even get them in different colors. Basically just classical strings gauged for banjo. They make these for ukes too.
Thats a puzzle for sure!
I wouldn't know the first thing to do with that.
Beautiful work as always!
That fret board is a thing of beauty...love the scrolling.
They’ve all got stories... and sometimes there are little clues. If you look closely at the picture showing the fingerboard, you can see it's been played completely through in a couple places in the first position. The ornately inlaid fingerboard and headstock veneer I'm fairly sure are turn-of-the-century upgrades to the original build. Both are very thin. A banjo made at the time the main parts of this one was that has rather plain spun-over rim and stock bracket shoes, you would not expect to see with a presentation grade neck. And the neck really isn't when you look closer... it was "dressed-up" after the fact. That happened quite a bit. This banjo was played a lot, probably by a professional performer, and one successful enough to afford such work. The inlays are most likely imported from Italy or somewhere else in Eastern Europe where there were quite a few skilled artisans who did this kind of work. You'll occasionally find fiddles with pretty pearl and abalone inlays like this too. Better shops here in America would buy these pre-inlaid fingerboards and accessories and perform upcycling modifications on older instruments even long ago. Truthfully, I bet this was a very plain banjo when it was new, but at some point its original frets and fingerboard became so worn that it required replacement. At that point, it was overlaid with this set, and binding added to hide the joint. The mechanical friction pegs are another tell. I would expect it came with wood pegs. The metal cladding on the old dowelstick... I didn't remove it to check, but I bet it's hiding another repair. All clues that someone long ago did a major overhaul on my 'patient' here. I just happened to be lucky enough to be the next guy.
(see, this is why I didn't just toss the stick and unused mounting hardware in the scrap box... it stays with the banjo) :)
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... They’ve all got stories... and sometimes there are little clues. If you look closely at the picture showing the fingerboard, you can see it's been played completely through in a couple places in the first position. The ornately inlaid fingerboard and headstock veneer I'm fairly sure are turn-of-the-century upgrades to the original build. Both are very thin. A banjo made at the time the main parts of this one was that has rather plain spun-over rim and stock bracket shoes, you would not expect to see with a presentation grade neck. And the neck really isn't when you look closer... it was "dressed-up" after the fact. That happened quite a bit. This banjo was played a lot, probably by a professional performer, and one successful enough to afford such work. The inlays are most likely imported from Italy or somewhere else in Eastern Europe where there were quite a few skilled artisans who did this kind of work. You'll occasionally find fiddles with pretty pearl and abalone inlays like this too. Better shops here in America would buy these pre-inlaid fingerboards and accessories and perform upcycling modifications on older instruments even long ago. Truthfully, I bet this was a very plain banjo when it was new, but at some point its original frets and fingerboard became so worn that it required replacement. At that point, it was overlaid with this set, and binding added to hide the joint. The mechanical friction pegs are another tell. I would expect it came with wood pegs. The metal cladding on the old dowelstick... I didn't remove it to check, but I bet it's hiding another repair. All clues that someone long ago did a major overhaul on my 'patient' here. I just happened to be lucky enough to be the next guy.
(see, this is why I didn't just toss the stick and unused mounting hardware in the scrap box... it stays with the banjo) :)
More stuff I didn't know; thanks!
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Love it. Tricks of the trade. Do the best fix you can and hide the evidence...Sounds very crime drama...
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True craftsmanship.