Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: edwardofhuncote on March 28, 2018, 07:18:46 PM
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I've had headaches most of my life... my entire adult life, actually. Why? Well...
It all started in 1985. Car wrecks, falls, accidents that inflicted head/neck injuries. Mom and Dad used to say if I hadn't come from such a long line of hard-headed people, I'd have been dead by 21. In addition to getting hit over the head, or whip-lashed I've dislocated both left and right shoulders at one point or another. Never broken a bone, but trauma after trauma to those "C" vertibrae led to a lifetime of dull pain. By age 32, I was totally addicted to prescription pain-killers. (they didn't have a catchword like "opioids" back then) It felt pretty good to not hurt, so I just did what came naturally. Before long, I was taking enough of them for a terminal cancer patient, just to get through a typical day. Pain management counseling and rehab stopped that nightmare, but of course did nothing for the underlying problem.
Chiropractic treatment worked - if I went three times a week, which if you do the math equals a new Series II every year or so just in co-payments. So eventually I quit going, and just learned to live with having a headache every three or four days, by trying to enjoy the good days in between. Bought stock in Goody's Extra-Strength Headache Powders. Well, not really... but I definitely keep their local stock fresh. Hey, if you can joke about it... right? That was 'just life' for my mid-30's to mid-40's. Ten more years go under the bridge, and I'm 48 now.
I've had a couple whoppers of a headache this past week... figured it was just another bad spell that would pass. Then three mornings ago, I woke up and my left hand was partly numb. The inside of the thumb, index and middle finger feel tingle-y like I fell asleep on them. I can feel heat, cold, and pressure, and I can move them just fine, but something definitely isn't right. I'm 100% certain the source is my neck. Certain ways I turn my head bear this theory out. There is a nerve being pinched in there... and it's one I need.
So this is a new chapter... hopefully it's not the end of the road for me playing bass, though I have to admit... that's what is weighing heaviest on my mind right now. Like any other crazy musician, I only seem to care about whether or not this will affect my playing, and I'd do just about anything to keep that. Obviously I've made an appointment to get a referral to a specialist. A specialist of what, I'm not quite sure.
So yeah... I'm a little bit freaked here.
Anybody got a happy ending for this kind of story? :-\
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3 years of high school football (back when proper tackling technique started with "you put your helmet in his numbers..."), followed by a number of years of things like 2-3 weeks on end of 20+ hour days bouncing in trucks between lifting pianos, B-3s, and amp racks (way pre-Class D) on and off stages, followed by many more years of bouncing & heavy crap without the fun parts, and my back was in pain for years.
First, cortisone shots, then hydrocodone & Tramadol, then the pain spread into my hips & legs. Turns out the arthritis all of the abuse had given my spine had led to a synovial cyst growing inside my spinal canal. They removed parts of L3-L4 & cut out the cyst; told me it didn't need fused if i stayed away from football, skydiving, and heavy labor. No prob, right?
Well, turns out nobody was hiring soundmen, historians, or archivists; thy were hiring assembly line workers. 3 months & I had to quit; displaced the L3-L4 joint into the spinal cord. had no insurance for the surgery, so 4 years of the pills - one of each at least 4 times a day.
Then I got me insurance (thanks, Barack!) and got the fusion. That's 4 years now, and still doing good.
Have you had an MRI on your neck?
Peter (who will admit that that first week & a half without narcotics was not fun...but I did it cold turkey with a 6-week supply in the medicine cabinet & 2 pills in my pocket the whole time)
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Hi, Greg,
My mother in law is a retired physical therapist with 30+ years of adjusting patients (not chiropractic medicine to force alignment, but adjustment of muscles, diminishing of adhesions, strengthening joints, and slowly coaxing things back into stable alignment, thus improving problems with nerves, the alignment of the vertebrae and bones, and other fun stuff. She has the equivalent of a grandfathered-in PhD in this regard, herself and has fixed numerous muscular/skeletal problems in me. We are on good terms.
I would be happy to present your data to her and see if she can wax professional on what she might think is going on with your situation. I think she will almost certainly say "yes" as she loves the mental challenge and running through the diagnostic trees.
If your cervical vertebrae have a history of being front and center with pain, I assume that playing bass affects the physiological reason. While I don't mean the bass ought to go, by any means, I have seen wide, padded, furry straps that make it easier to shoulder these great things. I believe Phil Lesh had one in the 70 that looked like a bomber jacket collar, and alluded to wanting wider straps in his autobiography. (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBOSTX037L9rIHoMqviYpn3CW-vgrLNYF50SyL4swu4iy_3bYL; http://www.jambase.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Phil-Lesh-Munksgard-Crop-6-480x270.jpg)
Also, I could speculate, as an unlicensed family member, that you may have an adhesion in the area of your tricep/deltoid or in your shoulder/neck, and it's impinging on the main nerve clusters emerging from neck and running to fingers, and containing the brachial or radial nervesinnervating your hand. That's the working hypothesis for my wife who has nearly the same symptomology that you describe and I sold this as a hypothesis to my mother in law without getting "Spocked". I don't know.
I hope you can find some relief, both for the worry and the discomfort as soon as possible.
Best regards,
John
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A while back a pinched nerve kept my pinky numb
for weeks until I had a proper deep massage. Every once in in a while
I get that tingle that makes me pay attention.
It does seem to be in the shoulder/neck area as John points out
as a possibility.
....hoping you are finding relief soon, wish I could help more.
(p.s. got a shower massage ?)
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Please look into CBD. The human endocannabinoid system can do some pretty amazing things when activated.
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Oh, yeah, sorry-
This is going to sound so dumb, but increasing your water intake will help, potentially by increasing blood volume to help find a way to get serum or blood into the muscles/connective tissue with the issue underlying your pain helping to start resolving the issue. The extra, clean water will increase your blood pressure slightly and better push into all capillary beds and pharmacological compartments and irrigate them and wash out lactic acid, muscle breakdown products like myoglobin, and some of the other irritating candidates that may make this condition worse, clearing them renally. I don't know if this will help or not due to feeling bloated, but it will help with maintaining muscle conditioning as hydration is key to powerlifiting/bodybuilding/massage and physical therapy recovery.
Therapeutic massage, as mentioned, is also a great way to condition or manicure muscles or muscle groups and to spot issues with the tissue, but be careful and stay hydrated. Your sleep posture can also seriously mess with your neck or shoulder alignment, and possibly then the nerves coming out of the cervical vertebrae. I have a bad habit of sleeping on my side when on a too firm surface, or in a the wrong orientation, letting me wake up with a deadened hand or arm. It's just the body impinging on that nerve bundle, and immediate manipulation/kneading/stripping of the tissue is what tends to get things off the nerves and restore feeling.
Neck issues from chronic muscle tension (oh, occiputs, I hate y'all), even torticollis could also lead to wonky cervical alignment, from personal experience, and that may be affecting the exit of the nerves from the cervical vertebrae. Thus, it seems that any problem with the "intonation" of your trunk or pelvis and legs can cause problems by indirectly tugging on your skeletal system and causing strange configurations of the vertebrae that have neurological complications distal to the physiological issue. I have chronic back problems and pain that stems from an asymmetric pelvic girdle which jacks up the spine/neck and also my legs. Fortunately, I think a visit to a D.O., not an M.D., would be a great place to start, as I am no medical professional...not even on daytime TV.
But, since the nerves from the cervical vertebrae run through the shoulder area, this painful foci could be initiated by a local or distal cause, a visit to a profession would help most. IF I am being an accurate shadetree enthusiast, a good massage therapist, an active release therapist/physical therapist, or a D.O. might help you find the cause (the latter especially) and remove it (the former especially) and give you an actual professional diagnosis and advice on how to resolve this problem and get this muscular/skeletal issue to abate.
Again, I hope you can find some respite as you chase down candidates for this inconvenience. Mr. Brannon's suggestion of cbd oil, like the *pure* stuff, is an awesome suggestion bringing great pain abatement and calmness and few to no psychological effects, depending on the product's purity. Products isolated by supercritical carbon dioxide solated from C. indica have more cbd molecules than similar isolates from hemp...but then again, there is my middle of the night feline assault/nightmare experience. I still think cbds are a great suggestion from Mr. Brannon. Godspeed, Greg.
Cheers,
John
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I'll second the suggestions of John and Peter. Start with an MRI and the assumption that something is impinging on your cervical nerves.
Several years ago I had similar symptoms. Went through agonizing physical therapy for months with the PTs telling me it was muscular or a result of tendon problems. I've had those in the past and this pain felt very different plus the tingling in the fingers that developed made little sense given their diagnosis. Finally I got them to do a MRI. Turns out I had developed a cyst that had grown to half the size of a golf ball that was impinging on some of the cervical nerves. Of course because these nerves run down the arm all the to the fingers that was the actual cause of the tingling and pain.
Had surgery to remove the cyst and the pain disappeared quickly. The tingling on the other hand took a lot longer to disappear (6-months) because it takes nerves a lot longer to heal than other parts of the body. It did eventually gradually go away and I've been fine for years.
Never really determined why the cyst had developed but having had a number of cycling accidents while taking part in races including a few "up and over the handlebars" when racing crits and sprinting probably contributed.
The important thing is to take care of it quickly and be assertive with your health care professionals. If the cause is an impingement and you try to just live with it you can do permanent nerve damage over time.
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John,
I think you are on to something here.
Therapeutic massage certainly worked for me. I did not have back or neck issues, just extreme shoulder pain. I was looking at surgeries on both shoulders.
One night I was at a gig, and complaining about my shoulder and arm pain. One of the folks I was playing music with at the time suggested a particular therapeutic massage therapist. I figured that I didn't have anything to loose. So for the last 8 months or so, I have been getting these massages aimed at putting more free range of motion back into my shoulders and arms. When I first went to him my scapula were not moving, and frozen to my rib cage. I had no rang of movement at all. I was not even aware of it. This is something that happened over many years and I first noticed my shoulder pain in 1984! Well since the therapy, I now have full range of movement and am probably about 90% pain free. It went from excruciating after a gig, to not even noticeable. I am being told that my pain will go away 100% with the continued treatments.
It is definitely worth a try. It is expensive, and I probably could also buy a Series bass after a year or so of this. I am seeing him twice a week still, but soon will taper off the treatments. Sure beats surgery in my opinion!
Michael
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Glad the massage worked for you, Michael - and nice to see you again!
I really wish mine had been as easily fixed (believe it or not, fused vertebrae do sort of limit your flexibility....), but I doubt even your therapist could have massaged a cyst out from inside the bone :o
Peter
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What if the massage therapist was, like, Dolph Lundren, The Iron Sheik, or Schwarzenegger? I bet they could massage bones.
Jokes aside, I am not claiming any expertise in this realm, and I should probably be ignored. I have seen some things work, mostly while trying to fix myself (e.g. Manually releasing my left pecs to loosen up tightness, weakness, and pain in the shoulder and the socket, as the scapula proved to be a dead end; although a major and lasting improvement, it was not optimal as it was done on an Amtrak, in coach, and as surreptitiously as possible. It probably looked to the nice old lady who was glancing at me from across the aisle like I was touching myself arbitrarily and impurely. :/), or to listen to the diagnosis and its vetting when others have fixed my problems.
If the current problem being discussed is inside or beneath the bone, or the vertebrae, I would agree that physical therapy is not a likely option until something more proactive happens to first treat the problem. I am sorry if I meant to insist that my suggestions were the only ones relevant to the problem; obviously, any number of processes could be at work, and a licensed medical doctor would be the best option to pursue to then determine what is the problem, possibly then referring the patient to pt or other therapy for treatment.
But, what do I know?
https://im-01.gifer.com/fetch/w300-preview/e6/e6bcd035ccd28fcf253675609d8932df.gif
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I really appreciate the replies fellas. :)
Just to clarify, I have never had any pain from playing bass (or guitar), not shoulder, back, or hands. Amazingly, other than some wrist tendonitis from ridiculously bad technique when I first started learning to play upright, I have never had any pain in my hands at all, ever. Not even a blister. Which is why I'm so torqued up about this latest development.
The headaches though, have been a chronic condition, since I was a kid, and there's really no doubt about why. I've had MRI's, CT scans, and they all bear out the same thing - the various head and neck injuries I've had have taken a toll. Even the chiropractor I went to for a while was shocked at what his pictures showed, particular the upper thorassic and lower cervical vertibrae. I guess this is the manifestation of what he saw ten years ago. I'm pretty sure there'll be some more imaging done in the near future... maybe I'll know more about what I'm up against when they see recent data.
Again, Thanks All... I really just needed to stave off some panic last night. The headache is gone today, and the tingling is less. Still there though. I expect a call from my MD with a referral any minute.
*never got the call... tomorrow I guess. :(
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Just take care of yourself, man, and be well.
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I've had 30+ years of back/neck problems from breaking my back in a fall; the neck was really made a problem from being t-boned on my bike 2 years later...I stretch my back and neck every morning as I get up and see my Chiropractor once a month for maintenance...I also use a chiropractic-type pillow to support my neck and haven't had a migraine since; what kinda pillow are you using? for me the pillow change was a dramatic improvement...Tony
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Greg, perhaps your strap is the cause. You mentioned that you use a 4-inch wide strap. I’ve tried those in the past and found that they ride up on my neck, placing pressure on my neck that is uncomfortable, so I stopped using them. I now use a three- inch wide padded Levy strap and have no more neck issues.
Rob
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I will second Rob's opinion about the strap. I have neck and upper back issues also, so I always used 4-inch straps on my basses when I started playing heavier instruments. I eventually discovered that the straps were pressing against my neck which exacerbated the issues. When I went back to 3-inch straps, there seemed to be improvement for me. Still have the pain, but not as bad. Oddly, I've found using the old Ace guitar straps is easier on my neck when playing. All this experimenting is why I own about 20 guitar straps!
Sorry to hear you are feeling like this, and I hope you find some relief very soon!
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Keep us posted. Wishing you the best...
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Greg, perhaps your strap is the cause. You mentioned that you use a 4-inch wide strap. I’ve tried those in the past and found that they ride up on my neck, placing pressure on my neck that is uncomfortable, so I stopped using them. I now use a three- inch wide padded Levy strap and have no more neck issues.
Rob
I will second Rob's opinion about the strap. I have neck and upper back issues also, so I always used 4-inch straps on my basses when I started playing heavier instruments. I eventually discovered that the straps were pressing against my neck which exacerbated the issues. When I went back to 3-inch straps, there seemed to be improvement for me. Still have the pain, but not as bad. Oddly, I've found using the old Ace guitar straps is easier on my neck when playing. All this experimenting is why I own about 20 guitar straps!
Sorry to hear you are feeling like this, and I hope you find some relief very soon!
I appreciate it fellas. :)
I'm sure holding a bass over my shoulder doesn't help things, but I had headaches from neck injuries two years before I ever played a note. Again, I never have any pain from playing... actually, many a time I've had a splitting headache at downbeat, and after two or three sets, I feel fine. There's never been a predictable pattern to them. Some days are just especially bad. A couple hours ago in the office here, I couldn't even see straight... pain was coming in waves, could hardly breathe, but this minute I feel almost fine.
I'm used to the headaches, but this numbness in my hand is really making me crazy. :-[
My PC doctor's office is scheduling an expedited appointment with a neurologist. I hope that means quickly.
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The 'new' symptoms with your hands and fingers sounds very much like cervical nerve impingement, much as Zut mentions above. Over a decade ago I began to feel the effects of degenerative disks in the cervical spine (confirmed through x-rays and scans). Began as shoulder aches and headaches. As the issue progressed over a year's passing it added the tingling and numbness in my arm and hand. While I never lost actual dexterity, loosing the sensations of fingers is quite concerning. I went through the run of steroid injections directly into the spine, which offered little to no relief. End of the story was spinal surgery to remove two disks and fuse C5 thru C7 vertebrae. The positive note is that when I awoke from the surgery all pain and numbness was gone, and has not returned (lower back, now that's another issue).
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I will add to beware of chiropractic. Jerking your joints around is neither natural nor healthy; there is actually a medical condition called "chiropractic paralysis", wherein adjustment leads to para- or quadriplegia. Had I let one of those types wrench my back instead getting medical attention, I likely would be among that number.
Peter
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Greg, I too have neck and back issues from a motorcycle accident and college basketball (elbows to the head etc.). I will share with you what a neuro surgeon told me, and that's "Make surgery your last option!" I have had the most success with deep tissue massage (Rolfing). When you injure a muscle it stiffens to protect itself and in doing so can put stress on the vertebrae causing them to impinge nerves. getting those muscles to release can sometimes take the pressure off of the nerves. from the sound of what you're dealing with, getting images (MRT, CT Scan) might help determine what's the next appropriate step. No pun intended, but keep your head up! I'm praying for you!
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Parachute harness+straplocks=full body bass strap with explosive bolts=ergonomic bass sensation, or onstage pyrotechnic disaster prototype?
Yes, yes it is!
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Gregory, sending you healing thoughts and wishes.
Hard to offer advice although my initials are PHD I am far from a doctor.
The complexities and connections are vast within us and inputs and environment can also impact health. Darrell touched on deep tissue massage, I have had experience with someone who does Assisted Release Therapy (ART) and to me it is a deep tissue type thingy geared towards muscular/ skeletal issues which creates inflammation and nerve issues. Sometimes the source of discomfort is removed from the location of where the pain is felt. My experiences with ART have been nothing short of amazing.
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I am addressing the problems people have associated with having something heavy (bass or guitar, for example) pushing down on the back and neck.
An alternative to a guitar strap can be seen at www.hoverharness.com . UP-FRONT DISCLOSURE: THIS IS MY PRODUCT. I am not just trying to make a sale; it is just hard reading about people playing in pain.
Forgive me and PLEASE inform me if I am out-of-line mentioning this here.
Rich
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Absolutely cool with me Rich. 8) I think it's a great idea that I may avail myself of some day. My troubles were well on their way before bass happened. ;D
In my business Paul, we like to say pH D is for post-hole-digger. ;D
I do appreciate all the commentary here. I really didn't expect a solution to come from my thread... just needed to say it somewhere. One of the cool things about this place is how our conversations sometimes go off in related tangents.
I've had a few days to sweat over this latest hurdle, and it's really down to this: Examination; check. Diagnosis; coming soon. Treatment; contingent upon the prior. It's really that simple. I'm cool with it.
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In my business Paul, we like to say pH D is for post-hole-digger. ;D
My dad always said his stood for "Piled Higher & Deeper" (this being the Wickershams' living room, we won't go into what that made his BS & MS - but the first should be obvious, and the second started with "More"....)
Peter
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Having one, I always thought that "the PhD" should be pronounced as pretentiously as possible ("Philosophiae Doctor") to make fun of the concept of spending 4-6+ years putsuing potentially esoteric research projects. Having a master gives one a way cooler title that people cannot grasp: "Scientiae Magister/Artium Magister" or "Magister Scientiae/Magister Artium". This is the pinnacle of snoot, and just means "teacher", which is totally cool to go around expounding baselessly on stuff.
But here's the kicka$$ down-low: you also get more and more nifty hats and robes as you accrue degrees and honor society elections, and EVEN RINGS that show you level of education, allowing you to run around and between cars, pretend to be an OG wizard fighting evil in rush hour traffic if you get some flash paper, some magnesium, and a long stick.
I mean, since this isn't the 1900s-1980s, PhDs today strike me as unimpressive and I've seen a palate of folks go for them over 20 years, including me (undergrad, U Chicago, 1998-2002, got some BAMF in Chemistry award; Research Technician, 2002-3, got jumped by reality; The Scripps Research Institute, 2003-2006, M.Sc., non-terminal masters as I went toe to toe with lousy people, lost, and was terminal; Pharma, 2007-2009, the recession; 2010-2011, USC, more Technician stuff for less money; USC, PhD in Pharmacology, 2011-2017, 2017-18, Admiral Beneath Middle C, the Kitchen, the Couch, the Bed, and Dominion over pets).
Here's the kicker: so what? A PhD won't do the same thing as it did 20-30 years ago, and it really has to do with the individual to do something profound and respect. I'm dumb as a post, yet I got one. Rosalind Franklin was a superstar and she had one, and then died for her science. I had hamburger today. Caveat Emptor.
This is not directed at anyone or anyone's parents or anyone else, but true intellect pops up without wizarding wear. In fact, I have found PhD programs to be mostly political, today. Hence the three advisors at USC: #1 didn't get tenure, which is a signal to run and get a new gig, which I did, and he didn't like that I would not get keelhauled as he went beneath the waves and spoke ill of me as far as he could and took my name off of some papers; #2 was highstrung and an itty bitty peacock with a great bark, no bite, a big bank account, and personal connections in the academic hierarchy that supposed were reinforced financially (it sucked; I was 3 months from graduating on a second life, and I got dumped because of ego and me toeing the legalities he was crossing); #3 let me drink tequila in mt office and do chemistry to the entire Roth-era Van Halen catalogue in a t-shirt, so long as I brought results. I did. I am now a freaking wizard and an Admiral Beneath Middle C.
The issue here that I allude to is that both times in a graduate program, there was so much malarkey that would never fly in a small business or customer service, which is where I set the bar for efficiency. Being an assistant Professor and kissing your graduate student on the lips, in public, next to the Korean restaurant where I am sneaking out for lunch A MILE FROM SCHOOL, after having just become a father, and then coming over to basically say "AND YOUDS ANIMALS DIDN'T SEE NOTHING, YA HERE?!", is totally hack. And that's the environment in which PhDs today are trained and degrees conferred. So...check the vintage, y'all, and one of us wizardin' folk says something, vet it like it's a sick cat and take them to the mat. Heck, with all of the Federal and private funding in science and other venues going to make PhDs affordable (prior to recent events), YOU PAID FOR IT!
Git you some, because when certain PhDs became free to get, assuming you could hack it, we basically have a debt to society, frankly. Sooo...Gryffindor, much?
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Rich used me as a beta tester on the earlier Hover Harness - it works! The bass floats in front of you and no neck/ shoulder strain.
Post hole digger! I need one for the three point on my tractor (referencing body aches!).
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Things are finally moving.
After a 6-day regimen of prednisone, I haven't gotten worse, maybe even a touch better. Headache comes and goes instead of constant, and my hand is still tingling, but not really numb. Sorta' feels like I'm automatically adjusting to the handicap more than actually getting better.
Had an MRI today... piece of cake. It was 2 hours long, but luckily I'm not the slightest bit claustrophobic. Honestly if it hadn't been so loud in that tube, I could have taken a nap. Can't say I enjoyed the contrast IV as much... I would like to know how in the world they can squirt something into your veins that makes you suddenly taste a mouthful of pennies? That can't be good, but the chicky-in-charge assured me it was plumb necessary, so... Ick. :P
Next thing I knew it was over... they handed me a CD with my scans burned on it, and sent me to the neurosurgeon's office with them. I'm told he will review the pictures and the report from the radiologist, and schedule an appointment for the verdict. How soon that appointment comes is contingent upon how urgent my case is, they told me.
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A thrill a minute, eh, Gregory? Monday I get to have two MRIs - one without contrast, then another with.
Peter (who will confess to being less than enthusiastic about the project)
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Peter; on the upside, maybe you'll get a free CD too!
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I have news... sort of. There's good, and not so good, but nothing really bad.
I got a letter from my primary care doctor in the mail saying he had recieved the radiologist's report from the MRI scans last Wednesday, and that he was encouraged by them. I appreciate that he thought enough about my peace of mind to send them to me too, so I wouldn't have to wait another week to hear it. Of course it's all in doctor-ese, but luckily, my next-door neighbors are both doctors too. Dr. Dave is a cardio-pulmonary specialist, and his wife, Dr. Sarah is an osteopathic doctor.
So here's what I got:
"Moderate to severe spondylosis throughout the cervical spine, mild eccentric canal and moderate focal right lateral recess narrowing at C5 - C6, with moderate to severe right, and mild left foraminal stenosis. Minor acquired AP canal stenosis at C6 - C7 with mild to moderate bilateral bony foraminal narrowing. Moderate to severe left lateral recess and left foraminal stenosis at C3 - C4."
There's two full pages of medical jargon that goes on like that. Dr. Sarah read through it all and explained it in English... the crux of it is this; I have Spinal Arthritis... varying degrees of it all throughout my neck and upper back. The swelling associated with this arthritis, she tells me, is why part of my hand feels asleep, and unquestionably explains the headaches. She knows the neurosurgeon I'll be seeing personally, and says he's very good. She also stressed I need to take this appointment very seriously. She went on to say it may not necessarily mean surgery immediately, that he may try some local injections first. (gotta' say I don't really love the sound of that...)
So I don't have a ruptured or herniated disc... that's the 'good' part. I'll take it, even if I can't put anything in the 'win' column just yet. :)
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That does sound, as your primary care doc said, encouraging.
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Well wishes for you Gregory. Sounds like your attitude is in the Win column. That is a score!
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Just checking, but are you feeling alright after the Prednisone regimen? It can have some nasty side-effects that creep up on longer regimens, so I thought I'd inquire. Cheers.
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Had the consultation visit with the neurosurgeon this morning... looks like a surgery to repair the C5 and C6 joint is the only long-term solution. There is enough deformity to warrant the procedure now but he gave me a choice to try some local injections (called an ESI) first, and see if I get any relief at all. Re-evaluation on June 5th. In the meantime my regular doctor put me on some really strong anti-inflammatory meds. 1500 mg/day of something I can't pronounce correctly.
The surgeon I've been reffered to has personally had this operation himself, and showed me the scar. They go in through the front to do it. (which frankly creeps me out beyond words) While there is a very high success rate, it's a quite complicated operation that takes a while. Then there's the 12 - 20 weeks of recovery and rehab, which for me is potentially devastating.
So I haven't got a lot else to say... just hoping these shots work better than expected. :-\
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I've had the shots... and then I had the surgery (through the front is actually easier and the scar is 'hidden' in a crease/wrinkle in my neck). There's nothing that says you will not find sufficient relief through the shots, so the surgery isn't yet absolutely required.
If you get to surgery, while there is reason for concern, there's at least as much reason (more, I'd witness to) for hope for a complete 'cure' to your current symptoms. The recovery time, which may seem long, passes; but the relief is immediate.
From one who has been there, your report is not necessarily bad news. Be hopeful and strong!
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Gregory the best I can do is offer strength and healing wishes from the midwest...
Tim, thanks for your insight. 8)
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Haven't updated in a while because there really hasn't been much of anything new... but today is something of a milestone. I get the first epidural steroid injection this afternoon.
With stenosis, the little canals nerves pass through to get out of the spine and out to the limbs are compressed, constricting, or impinging on the nerves, in my case causing numbness. The only true repair is to surgically fix the affected bones, opening up that passage replacing the damaged vertibrae with either artificial or cadaver bone. But to buy a little time, they're going to put a shot between C5 and C6 to try and shrink the nerve that goes out to my left hand, thus relieving the pressure. I'm told there's a 60-70% chance of success, and that I'll know within 48 hours if it will be effective. If so, it should peak in two weeks and last for about eight weeks. I can have two more shots within a year if it works.
Also of note, this was actually supposed to have already happened two weeks ago, but the Pain Management people (that administer the shot) somehow missed that I was a 'new patient', and therefore subject to a fairly comprehensive questionnaire, followed by a consultation visit before scheduling the injection could happen.
Between us, I find the whole thing terrifying. (picture that interface scene from The Matrix...) Seriously, this bass player thing is kinda' important to me, and having 100% use of my left hand is part of that, or I'm not sure if maybe I wouldn't just learn to live with it. I had one and a half cortisone shots in my shoulder a few years ago. (now, go ahead and ask me how somebody gets half of a shot...) The experience was so incredibly miserable that I swore I'd never do it again. And on top of that, they did absolutely nothing. So, here we go again.
Anyway, I brought along my Alembic 'Darkness' t-shirt, for luck, or something.
Some good news - In the meantime, I have been put on an anti-convulsant drug called Topiramate, often prescribed for epileptic seizures. It was kind of a long-shot to try to get some relief from these daily headaches, and somewhat amazingly it seems to be working... 5 days and nights in a row now, I've been headache-free. I honestly can't remember when that happened last. There are some weird side effects, but nothing too crazy.
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Hope all goes well! I'm getting some in my spine for the pain in my hip 6-14-18; that's because the second round in the hip did ZS&N (the first round gave 100% relief for 2 years).
I'm sure it will, indeed, go well - but just in case, have you considered making yourself a niche market as the only slide bassist? ;D
Peter
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Hi, Greg,
Good luck with the Topamax. That stuff can slow you down in terms of mental processor speed and make you foggy; my conversational abilities regressed to Cecil Turtle from Chuck Jones' "Tortoise Beats Hare" when I tried it. I was less than a fan as I exemplified why pshrinks call it "Dope-amax". However, don't worry, it doesn't hit everyone the same way, and I hope it gives you some extra relief and lets you focus on the low-end. Cheers.
-Zut, the Ever-Under Medicated.
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Well... let me just say, the only part of that experience that didn't totally suck was when it was finally over. Wow. :P
The early signs are good, but the road to there wasn't fun...
I should've seen it coming when they swapped my Darkness shirt for a pullover with a square cutout in the back. Next thing, I'm face down on a gurney, mercifully blind to what's about to happen. After an alcohol wipe, they did a local anesthesia (which I swear did nothing but p!ss me off) the doctor started injecting the stuff, while watching on an xray machine. A few seconds in, my left shoulder suddenly started throbbing. I said so, rather bluntly, through very baited breath. I was told to "just keep breathing". Then it really hurt. I said so again, emphasizing this time, with some colorful language. More instructions to breathe followed. Then the pain went down my arm and suddenly my left hand felt like it was in warm water, getting hotter. Felt like I was being bled out to tell the truth. It occurred to me I might be having a heart attack. Just when I thought there was a chance I might die, they told me it was overwith, and to just lay still for a few minutes.
I found out later, the shoulder throbbing I felt let the doctor know he was close. The pressure from that stuff as it went in, was inflating the nerve. He knew he'd hit exactly the right spot when my hand lit up. He says it'll feel prickly for a day or so, then as that goes away, the feeling will come back. He felt better about it than I did. Let's just say, if there's anything less than 101% improvement, it's very unlikely I'll go through that ordeal again... I just ain't got another one in me.
I did apologize for some of the stuff I said during peak moments of terror. :-X
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Dude, that sounds awful. The MD sounds like he has the warm bedside manner of a Dalek. I'm sorry to hear that anesthesia didn't work, but I hope the CNS impingement has been relieved.
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Gregory; I'm guessing you've got some time off from work? And I'm guessing you had someone drive you home. Do you have enough feeling in your hand to do simple household stuff like feed yourself, or do you have someone helping out?
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Dude, that sounds awful. The MD sounds like he has the warm bedside manner of a Dalek. I'm sorry to hear that anesthesia didn't work, but I hope the CNS impingement has been relieved.
It sucked, out loud. Dr. D. gets a pass though... 6 days without a headache is approaching a record for me, and it might not have happened if he hadn't tried this new med on me. At one point while I was face down getting the injection, he kept asking me to name this tune on a playlist that was running in the background, I guess in some Freudian effort to distract me from what was happening. I finally blurted out; it's John Parr's, "Man in Motion", from the 1985 movie, "St. Elmo's Fire", and I can't talk to you right now ***dammit!!!
Gregory; I'm guessing you've got some time off from work? And I'm guessing you had someone drive you home. Do you have enough feeling in your hand to do simple household stuff like feed yourself, or do you have someone helping out?
You know Dave, I left work 30 minutes early for the appointment. Drove myself to the hospital, walked in, did the thing, and walked out when it was over. I had a few (appreciated) volunteer chauffeurs, but it was important to me to go it solo. If for no other reason than to prepare for worse times to come. I was back on the job, making coffee at 6:15 this morning.
I'm actually not encumbered at all. If anything, I just feel sore all over from being so tense during the procedure yesterday. The tingling is going away some now too, but no real big difference yet. I have a practice tonight and a gig tomorrow afternoon, both of which I fully intend to keep. Biggest thing I could use is a nap... I didn't sleep much at all last night. Wasn't really nightmares, but I kept re-living the whole nightmar-ish afternoon over and over.
Here's another not-so-pleasant reality, and it's why I'm not using a minute of leave time I don't have to. After all these years of general good health and not using sick leave time, I have something like 1200 hours of accrued 'extended illness' leave banked. (they don't even offer this as a benefit to new hires anymore I recently learned) However, the conditions of the Family Medical Leave Act only protect my job for 12 weeks. That's not to say they would hasten to put the skates on me at 13 weeks, because frankly, there aren't a lot of liscensed waterworks operators ready to jump in. But the best-case scenario on recovery time for the surgery (which I'll eventually have to have) is 12 weeks, and could easily go to 20, or more. In which case I'll almost certainly be forced into an early retirement with reduced benefit situation. Hiring a trainee at half what I make is cheaper, they simply can't leave shifts not covered indefinitely, and, well... economics is economics. I don't like thinking about my career ending that way just yet.
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Look into the FMLA thing further; as I understand it (from being married to management, who had to deal with it), FMLA protects your job if you're out of sick days. If you have sick days, they can't punish you for taking them - so you can use up your banked hours, and then you have 12 weeks protection (but not pay).
Peter
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Had the dreaded follow-up appointment with the neurosurgeon on Tuesday. The first steroid injection didn't bring about much change... still numbness, and tingling, sometimes worse than others. His recommendation was to move on to surgery, as soon as possible, which for him was in three weeks.
Yikes. It's not quite that simple for me.
We talked for a good while about the whole thing. Dr. H. wasn't unsympathetic to how big of a hassle this is for somebody in my situation. There's absolutely no way I can get my life together by then for something this huge. I'm told to prepare for at least 4 months off work. For the surgical procedure itself, (which actually looks pretty gruesome to me) I'll be in the hospital for 3-4 days/nights, followed by at least a week, and maybe more, of rehab care where someone can be with me around the clock.
Plain and simple, I can't be left alone afterward. There's only a couple people I'd be willing to have that close to me anyway, none of which are physically capable of handling me, or mentally prepared for dealing with the mess I'll be, so some kind of nursing home is probably where I'll end up. A number of people aren't too happy about that. I'd be one of them, if there was a better choice.
So in the meantime, I'll be getting another one of those wretched epidural shots which hopefully will carry me through until the end of August. I don't have a date for the operating room yet obviously, but the target is ideally sometime after Labor Day weekend.
I do hope to keep all my musical commitments until then...
If all goes well, I'll spend this Fall & Winter on the mend, and maybe be ready to play again next Spring. Way too soon to plan, but I'm really looking for some point to focus on. Goals, you know...
The good news, and this is VERY GOOD NEWS: thanks to a drug a lot of people apparently can't take, I have not had even a trace of a headache for three weeks now. That has never happened... very seldom in the past 30-some years has there been a 3-day stretch that I didn't have at least one, and quite often I go 3 or 4 days straight with a headache. It had just become a fact of life until this windfall. I'm just now realizing what it's like to not dread waking up in the morning for fear of another day of pain. I told someone the other day, it was like I had been in prison for 32 years, and got out on a technicality.
I still don't quite know how to process everything I feel, but I definitely like it. I kinda' wish it hadn't taken half my life to find out a stupid little pill could have saved me so much... there really ain't a big enough word to fit here. I'm still very thankful.
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I had a lumbar fusion surgery about a decade ago. Quite different from the one you're going to have, but knowing what I know about rehab, get yourself as fit as possible between now and the surgery. Try to strengthen/stretch and generally be as healthy as possible leading up to the surgery. It will pay dividends in your recovery.
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... I'm still very thankful.
:)
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I had a lumbar fusion surgery about a decade ago. Quite different from the one you're going to have, but knowing what I know about rehab, get yourself as fit as possible between now and the surgery. Try to strengthen/stretch and generally be as healthy as possible leading up to the surgery. It will pay dividends in your recovery.
And do the physical therapy post-surgery religiously and for as long as your insurance will allow; in my experience (multiple on-the-job injuries in my truck-driving days & 2 spine surgeries), PT is absolutely worthless for curing any problem - but absofreakinglutely vital for recovering from surgery like that.
Peter
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It sounds like your attitude is as positive as can be given the forecast. Evidently my surgery experience (C5 -C7 discectomy and fusion), while in the same location as your issues, may not have been as extensive, perhaps. I had clearance for 2 months off work (desk job, primarily), but I went back on limited hours after three weeks and was back full time after six. So while I certainly agree with the comments to be as prepared for this 'ordeal' as possible - physically, mentally and emotionally - it's also important not to allow yourself to dwell of the 'worst case scenario'. It's a tough road ahead, no doubt. How you go in effects how you come out. Stay strong!
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Best of luck, my friend. My wife has recently been through that. (But, she's 75!) It's not "nothing", but with any luck, someday you'll think so!
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I'm waiting patiently for a call from the scheduler for my neurosurgeon. (He needs help with his logo...) We've kinda' developed a funny relationship over the past couple months of this saga. He's a world-class smart-mouth too, which kinda' helps lighten the heavier moments. (there are quite a few) We went through most of the pre-surgical counseling yesterday too. Most of it was review... I've been sorta' livin' this nightmare all Summer. There is actually a freakin' youtube video of this operation out there. I watched about 5 minutes. Anyway, it's happening soon... probably early next month.
Meantime, I've been fitted for a cervical brace, issued one, and told to start wearing it for a couple hours a night to get used to it, since I'll be wearing it for about 6 weeks after the operation. I tried it last night. I hate it. 101% predictable. :(
Can't believe I'm even saying this, but I'm getting another one of those God-forsaken ESI's day after tomorrow, but this time they're going to knock me out for a few minutes to do it. This one will be the last though, and should carry me through until the operation. Let's hope... :P
It's gettin' real now... how about some creepy pictures? ;D
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Early next month as in next week?
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Oops, sorry Dave! September. I was thinking July was a wash, but technically, not quite yet. Hey, I'll gladly take another day! ;D
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:)
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While (still!) waiting for the scheduler to call me with a firm date for the operating room, thought I'd share a funny story with a coincidental twist...
I have an almost-twin. Joe Hannabach. We're not related, but we look just enough alike to throw people off. He's another stubborn old upright player like me, who is also a born and bred Tarheel. We grew up a whole State apart though, and but for playing bluegrass and oldtyme music would probably have never met. Sure enough though, I don't even remember when or where, we did. Then about 10 or 12 years ago at the Old Fiddlers Convention in Galax, Virginia, on move-in day, I had one of my usual splitting headaches... one of those where I just couldn't see straight anymore. There was a pretty decent jam going on at that particular moment, and I didn't want to break it up, so I was relieved to see my buddy Joe walk up. I gladly handed off my bass, and left the jam in his capable hands. I laid down and put my face in a pillow. After a little while, I heard some people talking... one of them said- "well, that's Honeycutt on bass over there." And I thought, hmm. No, not me. A few minutes go by, and I realized they still don't know it's not me. Joe has also figured out they don't know who he is, and is having a little bit of fun with them. I look up a couple times, (still in cross-eyed pain mind you) and Joe's hamming it up... as me!
Before the week was overwith, we had taken to switching hats and shirts and on one occasion that week, we switched with each other's bands successfully for a few minutes. It got to be a running joke over the years, and we'd take a new picture now and then. So I caught up with my stunt-double week before last back in Galax again and in the course of conversation I told him about my pending surgery and having to bail on gigs this Fall and he got the strangest look on his face. Points to his neck and says- "So, now we'll have matching scars too!" That's right. He had to have exactly the same operation for exactly the same reason, 9 years ago, at age 46. Now I don't care what planet you're from, that's weird!
Now, here's today's not-so-good updates:
Both my Neurosurgeon and Pain Management Doctors have been baffled all along by why my left hand is the one with the symptoms. The MRI's clearly show the stenosis and spondylosis throughout the whole upper spine, but it's much worse in places that should be affecting my right side than the left. They can't figure it out, (I asked if they were holding the pictures backwards) but they are fairly certain I'll be right back in there, maybe in less than a year. So a decision has been made to expand the surgery to include a broader area. They're going to stay in there and fuse C5 through C7 vertibrae, all in one go. They tell me it's not that much bigger of a deal... I'll be under for longer, a little longer recovery/rehab, but it's the surgical equivalent of two birds with one stone I guess.
In the meantime, I have picked up either allergies or a respiratory bug, so I'm on some humongous antibiotics and such. I don't feel that bad, but they ain't taking any chances on me being sick in the next couple weeks. I think we're getting close now. I put everybody on notice, Labor Day weekend is probably gonna' be it for me. Better start lining up the subs.
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Thanks for the update.
Oh, and I don't think you guys look that much alike, at least not in that picture. :)
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Thanks for the update.
Oh, and I don't think you guys look that much alike, at least not in that picture. :)
Oh yeah, we don't either... never have, which is why it's so funny. If there's a resemblance it's only a general one. I'm guessing it's because we both play bass, and tend to run in the same circles. That particular day, Joe was even playing my bass, and jamming with my bunch, so no wonder the folks were spoofed. ;D
The part I forgot to tell - Joe got 100% use of his left hand back after the surgery. Said the first 6 weeks after the operation were pretty awful, but worth it for the end result.
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Whenever it occurs, good luck with your surgery though,with good surgeon, luck won't play a part. And get well soon. I've been exitedly awaiting another installment of the next major repair and/or reclaimation project that you undertake.
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Yeah, I don't see it either. Now, when I was 16-17. I worked on staff at Boy Scout camp with a guy from another town named Dave Matthews (no, fortunately not that Dave Matthews) - same height, same build, same glasses, same shoulder-length brown hair, and and similar enough faces that when we were in our uniforms my mom couldn't tell us apart at 20 yards.
They told me when they cut the cyst out of my spinal canal that they wouldn't fuse it; if it ever needed it they'd go back in.
It needed it, of course, and so they went back in. Really wish they'd the foresight yours have.......
Peter (who will always testify to the preferablity of 1 surgery over 2)
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Best of luck while you continue your prep for the surgery, and be well, Greg. Cheers!
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Gregory, best wishes and positive vibes as you travel down this path.
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Gregory, all my very best wishes regarding this forthcoming procedures. After my wife's unfortunate result (she's now on disability), I would hope you've gotten second opinions and have covered all the bases that this is your only choice and your doctors (especially the surgeon) are very, very competent. Good Luck, and I shall be hoping for the best for you.
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Greg, The 5-7 fusion is the procedure I had. The first 6 months of recovery are really the most limiting (first 6 weeks very much so). I know I've said before, but going into the procedure in good heath, in (pretty) good shape, mentally prepared for the coming ordeal and optimistic for the outcome is a huge head start to complete recovery. Wishing all the best for you.
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The saga
continues drags on... :(
I thought by now, I'd be fitted up with a stylish back-less gown and some stitches, and this crazy chapter would be closer to overwith. Turns out there's some kind of idiotic, nonsensical reason why, but of the two hospitals in Roanoke, there isn't a single time slot available for Dr. Harron to perform this operation in the foreseeable future. I might be waiting until next year. So we decided yesterday to pick the show up and move it to another hospital in Blacksburg, Virginia, a good hour away. The good news -if you can call it that- is that at least now I have a somewhat firm date to plan stuff around. Which is kinda' important when live by yourself, and can't go anywhere for 6 to 8 weeks. ::)
So, it's on for; 10/9/2018.
31 days to go... but hey, you can hang by your thumbs for a month, right? ;D
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Hang in there, Greg! It’s good you have found a facility to fit you in at a reasonable time. Same surgeon, or at least one with as good a track record? I’m sure you will be glad when it is done, you’ve recovered, and the discomfort is eliminated. :).
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Blacksburg, Virginia; home of Virginia Tech.
I think you previously said that you were planning to stay at the hospital for three days? And then at a recovery facility for three weeks?
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Blacksburg, Virginia; home of Virginia Tech.
I think you previously said that you were planning to stay at the hospital for three days? And then at a recovery facility for three weeks?
Go Hokies! I was Dave, then I was enlightened by the Almighty Insurance company that they weren't cool with that, and that I should either pay for outpatient care myself, or use my phone-a-friend or something. So I went to Plan B... I'm going home as soon as they discharge me from the hospital. Shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 days, barring complications.
Hang in there, Greg! It’s good you have found a facility to fit you in at a reasonable time. Same surgeon, or at least one with as good a track record? I’m sure you will be glad when it is done, you’ve recovered, and the discomfort is eliminated. :) .
Yep, same surgeon Rob... Dr. Harron likes this alternate location much better actually.
Wait 'til you guys see my 'therapy bass'! <teaser> ;D
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... I was enlightened by the Almighty Insurance company that they weren't cool with that ...
LOL!!
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Sad to hear about insurance getting in the way of your best interests... :( >:(
Will keep puttting out healing thoughts and well wishes.
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Finally got an "approval of services" letter from the insurance folks in this Saturday's mail... Dr. Harron told me not to worry about it, that he'd take care of it, and he did. Doesn't sound like much, but it really is a load off the mind. I wasn't quite prepared for the full-on freak-out mode that happened when it became a little more real. I'm two weeks and a day out. Gave up on sleeping and played video games the last two nights. :P
The plan is to work out the rest of this week, then take paid leave (vacation) until the surgery date, at which time I'll begin drawing from a bank of accrued extended illness time that I've banked over 17 years of service here. So many things yet to do. Pay a month's worth of bills in advance. Buy 2 month's worth of groceries. Get the car inspected. Finish making the house as idiot and accident-proof as possible. Move anything that weighs more than a duck that'll need moving in the next two months. Still got a couple small projects in my shop to finish up before locking up.
There's quite a list...
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It seems to me that the big question here is - will the people of Roanoke have to ration water until you're back on the job.
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;D
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It seems to me that the big question here is - will the people of Roanoke have to ration water until you're back on the job.
Ha! I'm guessing a couple weeks will go by before somebody will be like- "Hey... where's Greg at...?!"
In a strange twist of irony, one of my bigger problems is water. I don't trust my well at home for drinking. Usually I just carry a couple gallons home from work. No big deal, I'll just buy some store-bought jugs to carry me for a while. For those interested in trivia, they weigh 8.34 lbs each. My limit will be 5 lbs for a while. It seems strange to think I won't be able to pour water from a gallon jug into a coffee maker or a pot on the stove. New Reality.
So I told you guys a little about this. I had a bunch of store credit at Fret Mill Music, a local music store I do bass repair and setup work for... and they had this guitar-scale bass made by Ibanez, a PNB14E. I got to thinking... it might be just the thing to keep my brain at least thinking about bass while playing a real bass isn't possible. It sounds pretty good just by itself, and the electronics are very good, especially at the $250 price point. I tried it out while wearing my cervical brace, and it worked.
So... I got me a Therapy Bass. ;D
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Nice tiny bass, glad that you'll be able to handle a bass during recover.
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Therapy indeed!
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Best wishes fellow Alembician, and a speedy recovery next week!
That therapy bass is sweet looking!
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Well Friends, it's come time to sign off for a while and go do this thing.
I very much appreciate all the advice and well wishes from the gang of regulars here, especially the first-hand goods... that really has been reassuring. I'd be a lyin' sack-o-suds if I tried to play it like I wasn't scared, but I do have a very good medical team on the job. If they can't fix me, nobody can.
I'm as prepared as you can be. I have stocked the house with enough food and water to hold me until I'm able to drive again. (about 6 weeks) I've somewhat idiot-proofed everything... so no climbing or unnecessary maneuvering will cause injury. All the bills are paid up through November. One of the neighbors is getting the mail out of the box. Ted and Deb, two of my closest friends are driving me to and from the hospital for the operation, and will be keeping watchful eyes on me for those first few days after they bring me home. (probably Thursday, if all goes well)
It's been a KRAZY time this Summer. Maybe knowing each gig might be the last one made me appreciate them more, but I soaked up every minute of it. And they were all a bonus round... I thought the whole gig season was going to be a wash when all this started back in Spring. I gotta' tell you, by the end - it hurt. I got an ESI on 8/2 and can barely feel the fingers on my left hand anymore. It's definitely time for a surgical solution.
Now that all the prep work is done, and I've worried about all there is to worry about, I'm spending some quality time with my basses this afternoon and evening. Going to run through a couple Fleetwood Mac albums, maybe spin up Dicks Picks Volume 3. Then I'm going to put them in their cases with humidifiers, for safe keeping. Hard to say when I'll hold them again. :(
So hopefully things work out okay, and I'll catch up with you all in a couple weeks. But just so you guys know, if they go... well... not so good - I've had a good time here. I really mean that.
Take it easy... I'm out. :)
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Good luck, Greg, we look forward to your speedy recovery! :)
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Hang tough, Gregory; in the long term, you can look forward feeling greatly improved. In the short term, there's that lovely dilaudid pump to look forward to.......
Peter (Who enjoyed his drips way too much!)
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See you back here soon. Will be sending lots of energy your way on Tuesday.
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See you back here soon. Will be sending lots of energy your way on Tuesday.
Yes... you got this.
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All the best to you Gregory.
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Greg,
Best of luck with your procedure and recovery, and I look forward to your triumphant return to the forum when you are better.
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Listen to your doc and don't do anything you are told not to do (like playing one of your Alembics a few days after surgery), and you'll be better than new in no time!
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Sending positive energies from the NW...continuously for six weeks.
all my best to ya,
Kris
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All the best Greg, mate.
Healing vibes going out to you.
slawie
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Best of luck Greg. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
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We're with you on this, Greg. Have a good recovery. All best.
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Best wishes for a successful procedure and quick and complete recovery. We'll keep your spot waiting for you here.
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You d' MAN! Hope to see you back here soon. Best of luck, my friend!
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good luck!
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Hope everything goes as planned. You are still young enough to heal up quickly and should be back to playing in no time!
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Well, I'm still kicking everybody. :P
Never had so many holes poked in me either. Or wristbands. Four different wristbands, even one that brands me a "Fall Risk" and I quit counting how many times they stuck me for something. For all that blood, you'd think one of them wristbands should have gotten me backstage at a Fleetwood Mac show. ;D
Wow, what an adventure. I'd like to tell you all more about it, but I honestly can't remember a lot of the first day. There are still fairly large blocks missing. I wasn't quite prepared for that degree of deep pain. I had two boosters of morphine Tuesday night and still didn't sleep. I made sounds Tuesday night that Donna-Jean would've been proud of. By Wednesday afternoon though, they had it under control with ordinary pills, and were going to send me home. I couldn't be left unsupervised at my home in that condition, so my friends Ted and Deb brought me back to their house. That's where I've been since, until today. The crazy stuff finally broke, and they brought me home to my house. I'll be getting checked on several times a day rather than the constant watch, but at least I'm at home in the familiar.
Still having a very hard time eating/swallowing, but I'm able. Got the pain meds back to a manageable shift.
Maybe the best news is this: Dr. Harron, my rockstar/neurosurgeon came in to see me before they discharged me, and said that they saw a marked improvement in my neural activity in the affected area during, and after the surgery. They had me hooked up to a bunch of monitors to watch for just this apparently, and what they saw was a best-case scenario. He'll see me in two weeks for follow-up.
So I got that going my way. :)
Many Thanks Everyone, for the well-wishes, prayers, good vibes, and general good humor. You guys are the best. ;)
*the view from my bed... a grim reminder (as if I needed one) what that wristband meant!
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Very good to hear from you! I was just thinking of you a few minutes ago, wondering how you were making out. And that's a good initial report from the doctor. Good to have you back!
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Take that fall risk stuff carefully, even with the wristband off. A few years ago my dad had a fusion in his neck. That night he had to pee; thought (I'm assuming) "I was an All-American football player; I was a Marine; I don't need no sissy bedpan, I'll walk to the bathroom." Stood up, fell down. The next day they replaced his hip.
Glad all is going so well!
Peter
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Yep, don’t rush it. Err on the side of caution and ask for help when you need it.
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Nice to see your post.
Good to hear promising news, keep it slow and steady.
I might have to mock up a wristband that says 'Bass Player' ;)
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It's great to hear a positive report. Patience is crucial for this stage of recovery, which will be short seen from the vantage point of hindsight.
Your report echoes my experience. I had forgotten about learning to swallow food again.
Hang in there!
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Awesome to hear!!
C-Ya................wayne
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So glad to hear it went well! Take care of yourself and don't rush anything (especially not the groove!).
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Hey, Greg,
Nice to see you back in good spirits, and with a positive report from your surgeon. Peace!
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Glad all went well and all the best for a speedy recovery! Do everything your doctor tells you during recovery and you well be back at it in no time! :)
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Thank you for the ping! Glad to know that you are doing as well as can be expected. Looking forward to the two-week progress report.
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Just seeing this. Hope you're feeling better!
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Great to hear everything worked out and your home again.
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From now on everything gets better :-)
Speedy recovery mate!
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Just got home from my first trip out in two weeks... back to Dr. Harron's office here in town for my follow-up appointment.
First thing, I got the stitches out, and the incision doesn't look too bad. Doesn't look too good either. Looks... well, like somebody cut my throat. (because they did - DUH...) But it was done strategically in a crease so that with a little luck and a little help, in a couple years it'll be barely noticeable. It's not like I was bucking for any beauty contests before. And I'm a bass player. Who cares if the bass player wears turtlenecks?
The best news of all - my left hand is back, at so close to 100% that it's not worth measuring. Here's what's scary... during my surgery they had monitors all over me watching neurological function during the operation. They could literally see the neural activity increasing as they worked to cut and drill (yes, DRILL!) bone away from my spinal cord and foraminal nerves. Then they noticed that my right side activity was increasing too, which means I was losing it all along as well, and wasn't even aware of it. The operation took about twice and change longer than they had planned because of the sheer amount of osteophytic spurring (bone spurs) and the difficulty getting to it from the anterior incision. (anterior = front, means they went in through my neck) At one point they sent a messenger to the waiting room to tell my folks and friends why it was taking so long.
So it's a done deal... C5 through C7 are all one piece now, or rather they are slowly starting the process of growing together. I have the detailed report of the whole operation, but the high points are basically this; after they opened me up, they removed the discs from between the bones, then cleared the deformed bones that were impinging on the nerves, then installed some artificial spacer discs between the repaired bones, and reinforced with a 36 mm titanium plate and secured the plate to my spine with three 16 mm self-drilling, self-tapping titanium screws. (let that sink in for a second...) Then some kind of a cement over that. Clean up, stitch up, and wake him up. All through a two-inch cut in my throat. Freakin' amazing.
The experience was somewhat different from my perspective, but I'm quite amazed by what they were able to do. I have to say too... I wasn't very happy initially about having to go clear over to the next county for this thing, but in retrospect, I am so incredibly blown away with how awesome the staff was at this hospital that I am relieved it was there. They were great. Every single person I interacted with for two of the worst days of my life, tried their best to make it better. I made it a point to try and remember their names to thank them later. I was out of my mind and mercifully unconscious for a lot of it, but when I had a lucid moment, I made it a point to thank them by name. Katrina (pre-op), Margaret, Tara, Sarah, Kym, Elise. What a great crew.
My instructions are simple - continue as directed at discharge, do absolutely nothing strenuous, 5 lbs. max, cut back on the pain-killers asap, limit exercise to walking on level ground. No driving, no unnecessary car trips, wear cervical brace anytime outside the home, especially in a car.
I'll have another X-ray taken one day the last week of November, to confirm the bones are completely fused, and Dr. Harron will see me again on December 4th to review the findings and talk about a long-term plan for rehab and tell me what's next.
*Perhaps the greatest thing to come from today's visit... I was finally given permission to cease and desist wearing these ridiculous pantyhose the pre-op nurse Katrina tricked me into that fateful morning. Pulmonary embolism my foot...
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Congratulations on the successful surgery and well wishes for a speedy recovery Greg.
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Sounds good. Thanks for the update; and keep up the good work of recovery.
Oh, and I just checked; the bassplayers' union has a rule specifically banning turtlenecks, unless you're playing in a 50's west coast cool jazz cover band. And then you have to have a goatee.
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Wow Greg, so happy you are on the mend.
Hearing your tactile sense is back is such great news,
...that's gonna make for some stellar music in 6 months (?) or so.
thanks for the update ;)
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I'm super happy for you. Glad you're "on the road to recovery"!!
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Greg -
Welcome to the Community of the C5 - 7 Titanium Plate (I'll have to show you the handshake if the mid-Atlantic coast has a get-together someday soon). It's great to hear of the sensory recovery, which ultimately makes the whole ordeal worth it!
I am surprised you do not report about an electro-magnet bone growth stimulator collar. Worse than your pantyhose, as it was really visible (looked like a walkman rigged to mule's yoke) and it was obligatory for 8 hours a day for 6 months (and you already get to take off the pantyhose).
Everything gets better and better from here on!
Tim
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I am so happy to hear this wonderful news!
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Great news! So glad to hear that you will be recovering dexterity you didn't even know you lost!
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Better to wear pantyhose for a while than pulmonary embolism for an instant...
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Better to wear pantyhose for a while than pulmonary embolism for an instant...
Surely, I was jesting, and indeed I wore them - faithfully cinched up high and tight every day and night for two weeks. That said, I have not missed them. I just think Nurse Katrina enjoyed watching my last shred of dignity evaporate a bit too much. She was really sweet... had a great sense of humor about her. I warned her sometimes sedatives don't sedate me as much as they kinda' make me feel free to be a smart-mouth. She heard some evidence of that very shortly when one of the anethesiology people asked me, "How's that IV working out for you?" and I replied, "It's great... don't know how I got this far in life without it." Katrina laughed out loud, but she was the only one. True to her word, came upstairs to see me the next day.
I feel better today than I have yet. I walked about 4 miles in 3 hours this afternoon, just plodding along an old mountainside road taking my time, thinking about things. Prioritizing. Probably do the same thing tomorrow. Different direction maybe.
Thank You All for the kind words and thoughts. This has been a wild, crazy time. Weirdly therapeutic keeping a little journal of it here. I'll try to just keep it down to milestones.
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:)
Share whatever you wish.
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I had a benign tumor removed in my abdomen. Everything went fine, but they kept me a couple days just to make sure everything was still sewn up, etc.
I had a Demerol on-demand drip with a button to push if I did start hurting, but fortunately I never did, no problem. But . . . . .
The second day, I'm thirsty as all get out. So I pick up what I thought was the button to call the nurse. Actually it was, yep, the DEMEROL Button ! ! ! I pressed it hard 3 or 4 times, no nurse, imagine that . . . .
Finally, she just happened to stick her head in the door, and I said ' . . . . . . . wherzubinibinkallinandkallinyou . . . . . ' and it sounded like some surreal mush-mouthed drunk sound effect. She walks over, hands me the NURSE button, and announces I don't need any more Demerol today, and sticks the DEMEROL button in the night stand drawer. The room was spinning, and I was floating about three feet off the mattress. They kicked me out first thing the next morning.
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:)
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After another month of basically sitting at home and convalescing quietly, it's time for another update to this crazy epic story... actually, there really hasn't been anything much to update until today.
I went back to the Imaging Center last week and had a follow-up x-ray made of my neck where the fusion was done, so Dr. Harron could see whether or not the bones had completely fused. After looking at the pictures today, he decided that I could start physical therapy next week. I'm told I'll be going 3 times a week for the next 6 weeks, with exercises to do on the odd days in between. About mid-late January, he'll re-evaluate me and see where I am... if I need more physical therapy, which is very likely, or if it's time to start getting ready for return-to-work exams and paperwork.
Meantime, I can keep up my daily routine of walking as far and as much as I feel like. I can keep doing light work in my shop too... these past few weeks, I've been passing time working on a few pieces of furniture and a couple small instruments... a ukulele, and a couple guitars that needed work. Just projects for friends. I have a few upright basses waiting for my attention, but I'm going to let them wait a while longer. I've also been cleared to -wait for it- drive a car again! No drag races or long road trips but I can at least run into town to the store and drive myself to appointments.
What I can't do... The five-pound rule is still in effect, so no bass playing for a while yet, at least not with a strap over my shoulder. I did order myself a Hover-Harness from a Club Member (Thanks Rich!)... and have tried it out just enough to know when the time comes, it will work. I have been practicing some; about an hour in the morning, and an hour in the evening, just sitting on a chair in my living room. Very happy to report all the dexterity is 100% back in my fingers. Some days I have periods of tingling in both hands, that lasts minutes. I'm told that's most likely temporary, a part of the fusion in progress. I was really worried about that for a while, but it's gotten progressively better every week. It took a long time for the appetite to play music to come back... and I have absolutely no explanation for that. It's never happened in my entire life and it was pretty scary. It was like something just flipped a switch off. I still don't know what it will be like to play music with other people again. Other than a few visitors, and my regular support team, I've had very little interaction with anyone for almost two months now. Being around a lot of people feels weird after being solitary this long. Little steps I guess.
The crazy pain stuff is overwith... felt like I turned a corner after Thanksgiving on that... I have bad nights now and then, but they pass. I wake up the next morning and make coffee. Right this minute I feel pretty darn good.
As promised, here's some creepy pictures... Titanium - where would I be without it?! ;D
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Thanks for the update. For me, when I've had layoffs from practicing, one positive is that when I start back again there is room for new ideas.
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Good to hear a positive update on your recovery road trip.
But those creepy pictures... it gave me a twinge around the C6 vertebra.
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Very happy to report all the dexterity is 100% back in my fingers.
Strike up the band! Que the dancing girls! Huzzah! Huzzah! ;D
Some days I have periods of tingling in both hands, that lasts minutes. I'm told that's most likely temporary, a part of the fusion in progress. I was really worried about that for a while, but it's gotten progressively better every week.
Be of good cheer; when I went face-first through a (closed) car window into a brick wall, 2 of the things that happened were: 1) My left eye was sewn shut for a week, with no idea if it would work. When the doc cut the stitches, I was overjoyed to learn that it did, but dismayed at the extreme double vision. "Oh", quoth the medico, "that will probably only last a couple months." 15 minutes to clear. 2) They cut from temple to temple over the top & peeled my face down off my skull to wire my forehead back together* (I did mention the whole "face-first-into-a-brick-wall" thing, no?); afterwards, from the incision back, there was a semi-circle about 2" across the radius with no feeling. "Sorry, nerves generally don't grow back; you'll just have to live with that." "Forver??" "Yeah." 3 days.
I expect to hear soon that your tingling has fled.
*He showed me pix of that procedure; be advised that that - especially knowing it was my skull I was seeing - was some freaky-a** s**t!
Peter (Who, yeah, OK, was 19 at the time - but our healing hasn't slowed down too much, has it? :o )
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Really good to hear Greg.
That makes me happy...
...really happy!
(http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/images/smilies/banana.gif)
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Glad to hear your recovery is progressing well
When I experienced tingling in the fingers and severe pain a few years ago as a result of a cyst on my spine the pain was immediately taken care of by the surgery. I was told the tingling could last for months after surgery because nerves are extremely slow to repair or that I might always experience it. It got better so gradually over a three month or so period that I didn't even really notice when it totally disappeared. Just woke up one morning and when playing noticed that it was gone.
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Awesome! Glad your recovery is progressing so nicely. Try to avoid brick walls...be careful when driving, and who knows, maybe the next pics you post will be of your playing once again!!
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Keep getting better!
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Glad you're getting better Greg.
All the best from Oz
Yikes! The pics.
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Last update for 2018... and another milestone passed.
Went to my first jam yesterday evening since before the operation. Though I have been working some here in my house, I haven't played music with anyone in a group setting since back in September. I lost my appetite to even play music for a while, but it finally came back... and there is a strange clarity now, maybe from the long silence. Anesthesia, pain meds, and stress are three things that will totally mess up your mind... even I can figure that one out.
Anyway, I got invited to sit-in on bass yesterday with a guitarist named Bernie Coveney, who I later learned had played with Emmylou Harris (and a laundry-list of other notables) some years ago. He was a fantastic player, and a great storyteller too. We were joined by a couple other guitars and singers, and a simple drum-kit to round out a circle. Made for a nice jam... it felt good to get out and play again, even if just sitting on a chair.
Chairs - playing bass from one may be my future. I'm trying very hard to come to terms with this reality... Dr. Harron fixed my spine where it had collapsed-in and pinched off the nerves to my hands, but my problems didn't conveniently stop at C-7. A regular 12-hour day hurts now, and I haven't even gone back to work yet. Realistically, I can't imagine playing too many 3-4 hour bar/brewery gigs with load-in/load-out plus drives to and from. Maybe the Hover Harness system http://www.hoverharness.com/ will carry me for a while. (Thanks Rich!) I'm going to try a couple jobs with the Harwell-Grice Band later this Spring, but if it's time to hang it up, then, well... it just is. I'll take my place on a nice, comfortable stool and enjoy playing my basses the best way I can, just being thankful that I can play at all. Maybe it'll be formals and corporate reception stuff, some kind of shorter, lower impact gigs, my living room, whatever it takes to keep playin'. We'll have to see what it shapes up to be.
Physical Therapy. Wow, it sucks! I did get pretty lucky and got a PT assigned to me who has some level of specialty in spine injuries, and I liked her immediately. Ashley has this funny, dry wit that I get, but I bet a lot of folks don't... I go either 3 or sometimes 4 days a week depending on the calendar and schedule. Plus I get homework for the off days that I have simply worked into my daily subroutines. The Christmas and New Year's Holidays have kinda' messed things up the past week or so, but back on schedule today. Best news on the physical therapy front; it's working... I'm getting some range-of-motion back, learning new ways to move my head around, but it's been slow, painful going. I get at least two more weeks of therapy sessions, then on 1/14/19 Dr. Harron will re-evaluate me. Based on our last conversation, I'm guessing he'll sentence me to a couple more weeks in Ashley's Torture Chamber before he signs off on the return-to-work papers.
The target for returning to work was early February... I could still feasibly make that. :)
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Hey, man - GREAT news!! Enjoy playing, no matter where, no matter with whom...Heck, that's what I do!!
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Congrats, Gregory. Great News! I also jammed last night with Wolf (Sonicus) and some other friends. Great way to bring the year to a close.
And what's wrong with sitting down? It certainly worked for Jeff Skunk Baxter! I have a funky disc that gives me occasional sciatica in my left leg. It is especially exacerbated when I stand without much movement for a period of time, such as attending a show with an open floor where everyone stands, or, of course, playing music. So I always play with a stool behind me. I even have a folding combination stool/guitar stand that I bring to gigs. I sit or stand depending on the sciatica, sitting when someone else has the vocals, or when the leg hurts, standing when I have the vocals, or just when the spirit moves me. Heck, I’m 63 - almost middle age! If I want to sit, I'll sit. The drummer always sits and no one calls them on it! So there's no reason a bass player can't sit, too!
Bill, tgo
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Congrats, Gregory. Great News! I also jammed last night with Wolf (Sonicus) and some other friends. Great way to bring the year to a close.
And what's wrong with sitting down? It certainly worked for Jeff Skunk Baxter!
And BB King, Tal Farlow, Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt, Les Paul..........I could go on all night.
I have a funky disc that gives me occasional sciatica in my left leg. It is especially exacerbated when I stand without much movement for a period of time, such as attending a show with an open floor where everyone stands, or, of course, playing music.
Bill, tgo
Lack of movement bothers it? The solution here is obvious: Dance more when you play!
Peter
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George Porter uses a stool on the regular.
Glad you are moving forward....
Here’s to continued forward movement in all our lives!
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Go, Edward. Glad to hear you are geting back on track!
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After 3 months, Dr. Harron looked at me again Monday and declared it's almost over - I've done about as well as could be expected in this time frame, given age and condition. I'm going to finish out this month of physical therapy appointments, which finally turned the corner after the first month, then I can go back to work in early February. The only restrictions will be self-imposed, and common-sense based. I've been keeping up a daily schedule of routines, including getting up early, so hopefully the return to work won't be too much of a change. They tell me I've been missed... not sure how to take that! It'll be strange being around so many people again after 4 months in relative solitude, but nice to see the crew there too. Some of us are pretty close.
On a more serious note, being away for this extended period has given me a lot of time to think about things. I'm 27-1/2 years into this job, and it's time to start planning for the exit from public service, and get on to what's next. I'm not going to be physically able to do this job much longer... given how advanced the spondylitis in my back already is, certainly not another 15 years. Once I reach the age of 50, and have 30 years of service, I can retire. Of course I'll be doing something else... maybe it'll be expanding my shop to something more than it currently is, maybe it'll be some private sector consulting in the waterworks industry. After all, I'm somewhat free to travel, and from what I read, people need water all over the place. I've got time to think about it, but my days of climbing ladders and pulling wrenches and firehoses are coming to an end soon.
After a pretty good scare that started last Spring, I'm now confident (and VERY thankful) that I'll at least be able to continue playing bass. It remains to be seen whether that means I'll be a performer again, or if playing music is just a personal enjoyment thing. Again, just happy to be playing at all. I'm pretty lucky that all the people I'm involved with musically, are quite anxious to get me back out there, and I have accepted a couple jobs in Spring. If it turns out the long nights of load-in and load-out with a little music in-between is too much, then I'll know I can still play at home, or jam with my buds on the odd weekends. The only way to know for sure if I can hack it, is to try.
To that end, I've been making some changes... one of the first moves was a Hover Harness, from a Club Member here. (Thanks, Rich!) This invention shifts the weight of a bass from the neck and shoulders to the hips and chest. Alternately, I got myself a nice, comfortable stool with a back support to either play from, or at least rest between sets. I'm also [in the process of] switching my gig rig up so that it's lightweight and modular, without sacrificing anything in power or giving up any tone. Actually might gain a little bit here. I've started letting a few basses go too. I never have sold a bass that I was happy about, but so far so good... I've converted them into something I can use more. I did end up with a pretty cool Guild Starfire II that I've bonded with in one of those deals. Ultimately, the Alembics are staying... and there may even be another in the future. You never know!
So as this crazy chapter draws to a close, I'd just like to say Thanks Again to everyone here for the well-wishes, even visits, and phone calls from some of the gang here. It's been kinda' therapeutic to chronicle the story, and helped to pass the time.
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Thanks for the update. Reminds me that I still need to respond to your last email about the Series I. Hoping things continue to go as well as can be expected; and hoping to see you again soon.
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Wow, four months ago today since the operation... how the time flies. I graduated from physical therapy this week and went back to work, even beating Dr. Harron's worst-case projection by a couple weeks. It felt good getting back into a familiar routine after having to invent so many artificial ones.
At my last appointment, the physical therapy folks measured me for range-of-motion and found I was at 86%, a BIG improvement from when I first came to them back in early December. I'm told that's a pretty good number for a cervical fusion patient. They've taught me how to stretch things out and stay limber, maybe the biggest help of all.
My first week back at the Water Plant was pretty smooth... quite a few new faces. I'm the guy who gets there before everyone else, makes the coffee and turns the lights on, so the new folks were a little surprised. I spent most of the first day just re-establishing an electronic presence, resetting passwords, deleting thousands of emails, and playing catch-up with on-going projects. It sounds like going forward, my job will be less hands-on operational, and more that of a trainer/mentor to the new, younger staff. Our organization (like every other water utility in America) is getting perilously understaffed. I'm part of the plan to fix that for the balance of my time left until retirement. At least that's the current plan. I think I can do that.
The weight-loss finally leveled off at a nice, comfortable number. I've lost 60 lbs since last Spring when this all started, 30 lbs just since the operation, which is shocking to everybody but me. Appetite changes, (which nobody can explain) and some loss in the ability to swallow certain foods, (side-effect of surgery) combined with a daily routine of walking... it's not what I would recommend to anyone, but it definitely works!
I'm starting to get really itchy to go play music again... and it's coming soon. I took a few jobs with Harwell-Grice Band just to see how it goes, and to prepare, I've been playing for a while each day building up to those 75-minute sets they like to do. They've got a great schedule coming this Spring/Summer too, with bookings already rolling in. I very much want to be part of it all, but only time will tell if I'll be able to keep up. I've taken some steps to make things easier... a much lighter-weight modular amp/cab combination, a folding stool with a padded seatback, just the right height to either play from, or just relax between sets. (something I'll really need to be conscious of) I'm going to keep my second Starfire bass on stand-by, having discovered it's very comfortable to play while seated. Yes, very excited about the prospect of playing gigs again... the long break has allowed me some time to really work on things too, that I probably wouldn't have otherwise. I may be a better player today than I was before crazy-scary came along.
Some very strange things have happened during this time, but I've learned to live with the uncomfortable, embrace the unexpected positive... and all things considered, I feel pretty good. It was life-changing, mostly in a good way. :)
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... Some very strange things have happened during this time, but I've learned to live with the uncomfortable, embrace the unexpected positive... and all things considered, I feel pretty good. It was life-changing, mostly in a good way. :)
:) Good to hear.
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I appreciate your sharing this adventure.
Love your attitude!
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Well... the ol' carousel of life is funny. I'm gettin' right back on where I got off, almost 4 years ago. We hoped for 5.
Dr. Raymond Harron, Rockstar Neurosurgeon tells me looking at the last set of images that there's enough bone degeneration and stenosis to move on to the next level, and possibly decompress some of the last fusion too, while he's in there.
But first... we must satisfy the Almighty Insurance Co. So I'm getting another steroid injection tomorrow. And after 3 weeks I'll report the results. Then we'll either schedule surgery or postpone a while longer. The trick is timing. And quality of life. If it's screwing up your life, then do it. If you can live with it, then put it off.
I don't really need to think about that one very long... I'm ready to rock-n-roll. This has been about the worst year ever... way worse than last time. Last time there was fear and uncertainty. Now there's endless frustration too. Let's get it overwith... maybe 2023 won't have to suck.
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I was diagnosed with severe spinal stenosis and arthritis about month ago. Had my first steroid shots (two) in my lower back yesterday afternoon. So far, so good in that I'm not in pain from the shots (they told me it might hurt for a few days). Now I will continue my PT and wait about two weeks to see how effective these shots are. I am strongly incentivized to avoid surgery, it I can.
Bill, tgo
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Aw man, that's tough, Bill. I'll tell ya' like Dr. Rocket told me about those shots - if they work, ride 'em till they throw ya'. They did me pretty good for a couple years.
My poor Mother, she's fought osteoarthritis in her lower back for years, had three fusions and needs another. Unfortunately, because of pulmonary fibrosis and recurrent pneumonia, the amount of oxygen she requires just makes it impossible to put her under long enough to do it.
Sounds crazy, but I'm a little bit lucky in one sense. I may have inherited Mom's poor bones, but all my troubles are upper-back/cervical spine. Boy, it's a mess though. I got enough lung capacity for two people.
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Power to you Greg.
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Keep us apprised. You too Bill.
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Yeah, Man... helluva way to spend your lunch hour. Yee-haw. ESI #13 is a done deal.
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Wishing you the best.
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Met with the Rockstar Neurosurgeon yesterday. (I never get tired of saying that... because it's true, and funny at the same time)
Well, he says... it's bad enough to argue with your PITA insurance company... you wanna' do this now or live with it a while longer? It's your life, up to you. Say the word, and we'll schedule surgery.
So there are several questions for me here.
1. Is it about the same as the last time? Yes, exactly the same operation. He may have to do a decompression procedure on one of the levels fused in 2018 too, but not a big deal... just hit it while in there. Okay...
2. Recovery/Rehab? Same deal. 18-20 weeks. The first month, basically nothing. Immobile. Convalescing. Then after stitches out, xray to see if fusion is happening, slow process of recovery over the next couple months, then physical therapy.
3. How much lead time to book the OR? 4-6 weeks, same hospital as before. They are the only one with the facilities he needs. I'm actually fine with that part, they were awesome up there. I can't possibly be ready in a month. Maybe 6 weeks. 8 is more realistic for me to be laid up for 5 months.
4. What are my chances of resuming an active life after rehab? No guarantee, but.... I'm as good of a bet as there is. I'm actually healthier now than I was in 2018. I walk 3-6 miles a day now. The downside... if I have the same loss of appetite from difficulty eating... I'm in serious trouble. I've learned to control it now, eating by habit, and being extremely conscious of intake. At one point though, I was at barely 150 lbs, and dangerously undernourished. Missing a snack was a serious mistake. We can't have that happen again. I can't afford to lose another 90 lbs. Or even 20.
So I'm officially "thinking about it". My parents need a lot of help right now. So there's an argument to be made that I could put this off a while until their situation is more stable. There's also the work thing. I have a couple trainees who depend on me, though they are getting quite independent. I'd still be leaving them in a tight spot.
I'm less worried about the dadgum surgery than all the peripheral nonsense that has to be taken care of. Because you see... my Neurosurgeon is a Rockstar. ;D
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I think this is the one time you need to put yourself First. The older you get...longer to recover. Folks need help....hire a caregiver. It may sound harsh but this is Your Life.
All the best Greg....
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Greg, all very tough choices, I hope it all works out!
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Sorry to hear about all the tough choices but I think Gary has a great point. In the long run people are most often better off first looking after their own health. Although you might have to bite the bullet in hiring a caregiver for your parents the sooner you get fixed up the sooner you can resume your support of them.
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Thanks for the update. Keep us apprised.
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Wishing you the best...
What would McVie play?
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It always comes back to timing, doesn't it?
I made a series of decisions and appointments about a month ago that sets up the next year, and hopefully gets me;
1.) Healthy enough to play music again.
2.) As healthy as possible before I retire from the public service career and thus, don't have the sick leave that I have accumulated over 30 years.
3.) A schedule that gets me through this Spring and Summer coping with the meds and a series of two more epidural steroid injections. I got the first one yesterday, I'll have another one in July.
4.) Sometime this Fall, I'll proceed with another multi-level thoracic/cervical fusion. Same surgeon, same hospital, same everything. I'm just a little bit older is all.
5.) I'll return to work in Spring 2024, probably late February or early March, and basically be running out the clock. My official retirement date is 12/1/2024, but I will still have roughly four months of paid leave to burn up before then, and I certainly plan to use it rather than take the lump sum check.
Then what? Well, I guess it depends on several things that I can't possibly know yet. I will be working somewhere else doing something. I have quite a few options on the table now. I have a standing invitation to return to music semi-full-time with some old friends from my Nashville crash-diet days. There's this old buddy of mine who is Regional Coordinator for a state-wide nonprofit that works with small, underfunded communities with aged, or failing water facilities and infrastructure to make improvements and provide technical assistance. I could definitely see me getting into a gig like that. And there's always my Scroll Shop. If I do it legit and somewhat full-time, I could easily fill up a week. Even with a full pension check going in the bank every month, I still need to do something. But I got time to weigh options.
Firstly, I am not going to try playing much this year, at least not in the sense that I'll rejoin the band and resume a gig schedule. There is one wedding that I really want to play for, and one band reunion party I'll be a big part of. I may try to jam some in between, just to get used to interacting with other musicians again. I feel really good right now after that godawful shot yesterday... my left hand especially is warm in 'all the right places', which is very encouraging. I got a couple guitars out for later this evening and tomorrow. Little Darling 'Aglaope' hasn't seen daylight in a while. And there are a couple little Martin guitars with scowly faces in the locker too.
Feels good to have a plan, even if there is some more unpleasantness in the path. :)
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Gregory - Best wishes for things to come.
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Sounds like a fun and interesting semi-retirement ahead for you, considering all of your interests and skills.
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Plans and Schedules... ever-changing.
I just left the office of my Rockstar Neurosurgeon. Or rather, we looked at the MRI pictures from last week in his office, and he took me down the long hallway to his scheduler's office, where we laid out possible dates for my next O.R. adventure. Pending approval by the Almighty Insurance Co., I'll have another multi-level discectomy/fusion/decompression surgery the end of June, maybe early July.
Right around my birthday. Hopefully, if it goes like last time, the rest of my 50's won't have to suck as much. On the other hand, this kinda' changes a few things at work. I was planning to hold out until this Fall/Winter. [shrug] Hey, I've been on borrowed time, and working like crazy man for three of the last four years. My trainees are as trained as I can get 'em. I'll let them train a new boss... it's time to take care of me now.
At least I know what to expect this time... what to prepare for, what not to waste time on. If ever the expression "here we go again" applied. :P
Not much drama this time. I'll post some pics of pretty nurses or scary hospital scenes. ;D
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Greg, glad to read that there is a treatment strategy. A friend is going in for her third neck spinal operation next week. Be sure to have "I Dream of Jeannie" episodes running while you mend.
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Let us know when you have a date certain.
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Sounds like you're doing all the right things.
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Positive thoughts being pushed out.
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Hope all goes well, Greg, and this round fixes it for good! :)
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It's on for tomorrow morning folks. I'm already pre-registered and bar-coded and everything. I just show up at the hospital before daylight tomorrow morning in my bedclothes, and they scan me in. If all goes well, I will be in a room overnight, and discharged Thursday. Probably stay with some other folks for a couple more days until the really crazy pain is overwith. Might be home by the weekend.
I'm going to drop off here while that's going on... like I was tellin' Dave a little bit ago, I'm liable to post something up here he'd hafta' jump on and [delete] right quick. ;D
Catch y'all on the flipside. :)
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Greg,
Best wishes on your surgery, and a speedy recovery. This is a much better place with your knowledge, and good nature. Try and let us know how things are going, when you are able.
Regards,
Pete
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Greg, hope it all goes well, good luck with everything! :)
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Greg
I hope everything goes well tomorrow and you have a speedy recovery.
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Standing by for the good news!
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Greg, share your progress.
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Sending good healing thoughts your way, Greg.
Bill, tgo
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I feel your pain, Greg. Heal up quick!
Peter
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Text from Gregory says that the doc reported that all went well.
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Text from Gregory says that the doc reported that all went well.
Great news! Thank you, David.
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Text from Gregory says that the doc reported that all went well.
Great to hear! :)
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I think it gets better from here... had a tuff nite, but better this morning. Might get sprung out this afternoon.
Thanks y'all. More later.
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Glad to hear it! Best wishes for an easy recovery.
Ken
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The video cracked me up… is that how you were feeling?
Go easy, go slow, listen to your body and give it what it needs.
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Rest up, Greg, all the best for a speedy recovery! :)
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I definitely brought the Donna-Jean scream a couple times the other night, and yeah it was slower in my head than it was to those poor sweet girls who had to put up with me. But they were awesome, all seven of them, from pre-op to sign-out.
I'm staying with some friends for a day or two, until the really crazy stuff is overwith, but while I can string together a few lucid thoughts here's what's up;
My rockstar neurosurgeon came in yesterday morning and gave me the rundown. Same story as 5 years ago... bone spurs and all the classic symptoms of osteoarthritis/spondylitis. He just picked up where he'd left off, using a tool like kinda' a dentist drill, he cut those old discs out, cut the bone spurs off my spinal cord, replaced the discs between, and screwed everything together. When the bones finish healing up around the new discs, I'll be fused for a couple more sections. The operation he tells me, went great, and he could visualize on the monitors the electrical flow increasing to my extremities as he worked. See, they had me hooked up to a battery of sensors that trace the electrical current traveling through your nerves from the spinal cord to the hands. And as they remove the bone that is impinging on it, the flow increases. Or rather is less impeded. Ain't that some amazin' tech? It all comes down to flow of current. My hands, both of them feel really weird now, fat, puffy, and ticklish. I guess because the nerve ends are waking up and working again
So LSS, it's the best possible outcome for that part. The next battle is learning to eat again. There is a knot of scar tissue now that feels about the size and shape of a walnut, right on the side of my esophagus. Swallowing anything is a trick. Hot or cold liquid is easiest. Solid anything is a no way. Last time around I lost a scary amount of weight before it got under control, so on one hand I have the experience, on the other, well... there ain't but so much you can do short of really unpleasant medical intervention.
Anyway, I'm avoiding as much of pain meds as possible during the day. Super-sweet fruit popsicles seem to be my endorphin trigger. They're cold, and feel good on my throat too.
Thanks for the kind posts and thoughts. Catch up with y'all in a few.
~Gregory (who really appreciates nursing staff more lately...)
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Greg, I'm glad to hear your positive report.
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Glad to hear you are on your way to recovery. I think the fact that you know what to expect is going to help a lot. It's the unknown that freaks most of us out.
And of course remember that those damn nerves take a while to repair themselves. From what my doc friends tell me, after being compressed for a long period the nerve fibers (axons) shrink back and ‘rest’ for 4-6 weeks before they begin to repair themselves. I've heard and experienced a period of 6-12 weeks with little change in the numbness and tingling (the pain diminishes much more quickly) and then when you have just about forgotten about the surgery, you'll wake up one day and no more numbness, no more tingling.
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... a battery of sensors that trace the electrical current traveling through your nerves ...
I want one of these (... searching Amazon)
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Finally made it home.
It's been about like I thought, but with a couple surprises. Hiccups are excruciating. A sneeze will bring you to your knees. But surprisingly, a cough isn't so bad this time. Getting into, and out of bed is a two-handed struggle, and sleeping for more than a couple hours is still not happening. Once you get up though, it isn't so bad. Sitting up, or walking around is relatively easy. It's the transition between them that's really the tricky part. I've dialed the pain meds back to one, or half of one a night, and went back to two-fisting my favorite popsicles in between naps. I can't eat anything more solid than a cup of pudding. I did have an omelet last night, and that was hard, but do-able. It's applesauce smoothie today, after coffee. So far, 6 lbs gone. We're tracking this pretty close. At a buck-sixty, I start getting professional help.
The porch is nice in the morning. Really, anytime. And the no-see-ums can't bite through the pantyhose (compression stockings) I have to wear for another week. I'll go back for a follow-up appointment with the rockstar neurosurgeon, get the stitches out, and he will schedule xrays for sometime about 8-10 weeks after the surgery date to see if the bones are solid. If yes, move onto physical therapy, if not... well, I reckon it'll be more 'sit on porch' until they are.
So here I am, at home in Masons Cove, Virginia... on the longest coffee break you ever heard of. ;D
*those monitors Dave... that's actually an outsourced service my surgeon brings in specifically for this procedure. They are the last people you see before you go under, little wires and stickers going everywhere. They come in and tell you about it ahead of time so you won't be freaked out I guess.
It's crazy, some of the extraneous things. He also has to employ the services of a pathologist, to examine and confirm for the insurance company that the bone fragments removed from me were indeed diseased, and needed to be removed.
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Greg, you're looking good. My daughter has had a couple of procedures and craved milkshakes post op. I have a friend who just underwent her 3rd neck surgery, and she's doing very well--technology is great these days. Keep us posted. Great to see you up and around.
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Thanks for the picture; good to see you!
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Glad things are moving along, and the pain is manageable. Enjoy the time you get to spend on your porch. I'm sure it helps you heal.
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I've been following along, even if not posting - wishing you a speedy recovery!
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Smart to take care of this before you retire, so that you can enjoy your retirement instead of being in pain. Hope for a speedy recovery.
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Looking good, Greg, hoping for you a speedy recovery!
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Happy to see you at home.
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Take care, my friend! Congrats, by the way!
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Sending you healing vibes!
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Keep on healin' Greg!
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Glad to hear you are on the recovery road, Greg. I have a video appointment with my spine doc tomorrow. The last round of back shots did little for my stenosis. I've been hoping to avoid surgery, but hearing positive outcomes from others gives me a little more confidence if I wind up under the knife.
Bill, tgo
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Ugh. I've had 15 cervical ESI's over the past couple-three years Bill, and they worked but in varying degrees. The longer we went with that treatment, the less effective it was. I got my last one (I sure hope it was the last time I see that room...) on March 30th. By Memorial Day weekend the benefit from it was all but gone and my left hand was mostly numb again. A month of relief ain't worth enduring another one of those things just to get me into Summer, so we made the call. A month later, I was in the OR.
If you've got a good relationship with your surgeon Bill, and he's giving you all the options, I will tell you it is amazing what these guys can do. I am not kidding about mine - that cat is the best. He suffers from the same condition as me, and has had all the same surgeries. Knows exactly how to advise you. I didn't like him a bit the first time I met him (read back about 5 years ago) but I wouldn't trade for anyone else now.
I had a pretty slow day around here. Did too much yesterday I guess, and didn't sleep much last night. Might go walk around the house a few times, just to say I did something.
*Nice to see you around here Toby... been a minute. :)
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Nice looking hardware you've got there. A titanium bridge block for your vertebrae. I've got a lumbar fusion with similar bits.
I'm always here reading, just haven't had much to add!
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Got another matching one now... ain't seen it yet. ;D
Chime in again sometime. I was just wondering the other day how that sad old Epic 5 fixed up. At the time I was hunting for a thread on a stripped-out Elan 5. I know it's here somewhere. ::)
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I don't have any pix of my hardware - but I could probably pay off the mortgage with all the titanium in my back.
About 6 weeks ago, I mowed the lawn - I mowed the lawn (which I'd done twice already this year with no problem) - and irritated my left S5 joint to the point it was the worst pain of my life. Bear in mind as you read that "worst pain of my life": 4 back surgeries and once face-first through a closed (non-safety-glass) car window into a brick wall.
Finally got the injection 2 weeks ago today; I really hope the improvement continues, because the thought of surgery #5 is not one I relish.
Glad you're doing so well, Greg.
Peter (who is still in the doghouse for having to cancel our planned June 3-week, 5-grandkid road trip......)
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Got another matching one now... ain't seen it yet. ;D
Chime in again sometime. I was just wondering the other day how that sad old Epic 5 fixed up. At the time I was hunting for a thread on a stripped-out Elan 5. I know it's here somewhere. ::)
the Epic is sanded and sitting. Life kicked off with some new time consuming requirements and it's been shelved for a bit.
I have electronics in hand....just need to carve out some time to figure out the refinish and a possible refret. someday!
heal up!
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Stitches out today.... and I got permission to retire the compression stockings. ;D My rockstar neurosurgeon peeled off the surgical bandages, says everything looks good. I got some coconut oil for treating/disappearing the incision, and giant band-aids to keep that stuff where it belongs and offa' my clothes. (this worked out great last time)
Nothing to do now for 6 weeks but wait for fusion to happen. This a lot like watching grass grow or paint dry. I'll get x-ray'd near the end of August to see how it's going, and should probably start physical therapy in September.
The only things of concern; lost some more weight. Not a big deal yet, but need to turn a corner on this. And two; I'm often waking up with a headache. It goes away almost immediately when I sit up and get the pressure off my neck, so for now we're going with that. If they don't stop, or get worse, we gotta' find out why that's happening.
Best of all, I am cleared to walk further now than just to the mailbox or the stop sign at the end of the street, so I'll probably start taking advantage of that freedom. It's a little awkward wearing the cervical collar, but I'm pretty much used to it. Like I told someone else earlier - the collar is your friend.
I haven't played a note yet, or even wanted to. All in good time. It frustrated me last time, and I won't make that mistake again. I have been binge-listening to music though. It's in my head real good!
Summer is here.
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Thanks for the update. Sending healing thoughts your way… you got this!
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... I have been binge-listening to music ...
Wondering if speakers can be mounted on the collar.
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Glad you're progressing, Greg.
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Thanks fellas. :)
I dunno' Dave, probably. It's got this little button-catch in the back for an attachment, I think it's for unfortunate folks who have to wear a full halo thing. (supports/immobilizes your whole cranium...) I have just gotten used to it for my purposes though, and dumb as this sounds, it's hard to wean yourself off of it when the time comes. I've purposefully been trying to leave it off when I'm not doing anything, and making an extra effort to sit up straight.
I got a couple decent sets of headphones for the audio therapy though. ;)
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Had to revisit for an epilogue... it's a week short of a year since the last fusion surgery. I've healed up and life went on. My Rockstar Neurosurgeon is retired, and I will be too pretty soon. He says by the time I need another level done (C7-T2) the operation will mostly be done by robots. We hope it'll be another 5 years or more before this happens, but for now I feel pretty good.
At this moment, my Mom is in the OR undergoing her 8th fusion surgery. She will be 80 come mid-July. If genetics hold out, I got a little time before the real trouble starts. Was tellin' someone the other day, I used to think the Ol' Man was tough. He's just hard-headed. Mom is tough. irony is, my degeneration started at the top, hers at the bottom of the spine. At least I know what she'll be feeling like when she wakes up here in a little bit. 😬
I never did post the pics of the Titanium upgrades last year. It's absolutely amazing how they can do all this work. And all the time they are working on and around your spine, there are sensors that were placed all along the pathways that track the electrical conduction from brain to extremities. They can see improvement in real-time as the impinged nerves are relieved. Wild.
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Those are some clear x-rays. Glad you're mending well.
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The Lovely & Charming Mrs. Cowboy had a C2-C4 laminectomy & C2-C5 fusion May 20; hoping to get the 24/7 hard cervical collar off July 2. She is a hurt pup - not helped by her reluctance to take the hydrocodone they prescribed.
My own hardware is L2-L5, with cages at L2-L3 and L4-L5.
No art on either one, or I'd share, too.
Peter
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I steered clear of the hydrocodone too... just too many unpleasant side effects for me. I found that there's a brand of popsicles that not only felt great going down, but I swear they released natural endorphins. I brought some up to the hospital tonight for Mom.
Outshine. Natural fruit. Kroger stores sell them here in Virginia. I two-fisted those things when it hurt.
*Mom came through great. Surgery took longer than planned, but they got her fixed up. She can already feel her hands again. That's a good sign.
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I gobbled that stuff like M&Ms - like peanut M&Ms! I don't like pain; pain hurts! And if I can get a nice floaty buzz to boot, well, that's something I've always been sort of OK with.......
And I will add that when it came time to quit (3 times, more than a year on it each time; 3 years the last time - getting up to 6 each 10mg hydrocodone & 50 mg tramadal daily), I quit: It was not a particularly pleasant week/week.5, but it wasn't hard. 2nd time I did it with a month & a half supply in the dresser & 2 pills in my pocket the whole time.
Anywho, I told TL&CMC about your surgeries, and She was wondering how much range of motion you retain (a month+ in the collar & She can'r move attall, attall, and is worried).
May I allay Her fears?
Peter
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The physical therapy takes care of the range of motion/mobility. First thing they do is measure that for a baseline. I can turn my head further to the left than the right side, and lean forward more than back, but 8 weeks after surgery and the collar still 'my friend', I couldn't move much without pain. I did... something like 2 months of PT this go-round to get where I needed to be to do the physical requirements of my job. I still pull rubber thera-bands for 5 minutes every morning before work. It's just become a daily routine. She'll get there. The worst part is over.
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Thanks; I'll pass that on to Her. And She already has 2/week PT scheduled into November.
Peter
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Hoping recoveries for both Greg's mom and Peter's wife go well.