Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: nemesis on July 01, 2016, 04:21:18 PM
-
Hi All,
I have a question, and its prolly really for Mica, but who knows out there in Alembic land! I have a Series I short scale with the graphite neck. I am tinkering with the action, and had a thought about using the adjustable nut, so AWESOMELY done by Alembic. Has anyone put one of these on their bass? Then.. Has anyone put one on a Graphite necked Bass. I know the chances of the later are slim since there aren't many graphite necks out there. But just asking. Does anyone have any thoughts on the adjustable nut? All this is compounded by the fact that the graphite neck does not have an adjustable truss rod.
Also from the Head heavy thread, I took the suggestion of getting a 4" Moody strap, WOW!!!! It really helps and what a work of art! Thanks for the help with that!
Sorry for the silly questions just trying to make my baby be the best it can be, LOVE IT!
Thanks,
Nemesis Jon
-
Hey NJ,
I'll give you my thoughts on the adjustable nut... My Series basses have them and here's the deal; If you have the bass properly set up and the nut cut the way you want it then there is rarely ever any reason to adjust it. Less frequently than adjusting the bridge for instance.
The advantages of an adjustable nut are; #1, it's forgiving, in that if you try to cut the slots yourself you can get a couple chances to get it right (I know this from experience). #2, eventually the slots will wear and you may find you need to raise the nut. #3, if you change string gauges it can throw off the setup and you may need to re-slot and raise some or all of the nut. #4, you can get a replacement blank that you can recut and bolt right in instead of having to completely remove and replace a fixed one.
I like the nut to act like a "zero fret". In other words, on an open string the clearance between the string and the 1st fret should be the same as fingering the first fret and measuring the clearance between the string and the 2nd fret. This assures that the string is as low as it can be on the nut end without causing rattles and buzzes. And that in turn effects the feel of the action, and the intonation, all the way up the neck.
I have a graphite fretless which also has an adjustable nut (and no truss rod). I can't set it quite in the same way as I described above because I don't want the open strings to growl or bloom like the notes a bit higher. But frankly, that nut has not moved since 1980!
OK, too much information. I hope I addressed your question. Ha!
Jimmy J
-
I like to set up guitars in the "zero fret" style too. On an Alembic, or any guitar with an adjustable nut (Bond Electraglides for example), I also rarely adjust it once it's set. One nice benefit of the adjustable nut is that it's really easy to change the set up for slide playing, which is nearly impossible on the typical LAPWOB* set up.
*Lowest Action Possible Without Buzz
Bill, tgo
-
JimmyJ,
Thank you for the insights. I think I am trying to achieve the same thing as you, by the nut being the zero fret, great description by the way....I just went to the bass with the feeler gauges. I measured the height of the "E" string at the first fret to be .037". The height on the "G" string is .024". This is with the recently refurbished bass with OEM Alembic strings. How I think I got an accurate measurement was using "blade' type feeler gauges I slid the gauge down the under side if the string until it went over the first fret, I looked for the string to move up, and felt for resistance.
A question back your way is did you install the adjustable nuts, or did your basses come that way? It sounds like they have three screws, one at each end and a center one that is threaded in the head stock? With the center one being the lock down mechanism, am I picturing this correct?
Nemesis Jon
-
Yes, the feeler gauge is the way to to check that clearance. Now finger a low-F on that E-string and check the clearance between the string and the next fret up (F#). Ideally it should be the same or very close to your .037.
My basses came with them and you are correct, there are two externally threaded "height" adjusting bolts which have sharp points at the bottom and sit in little dents in the brass "bed" plate, and a center bolt has a small head which is countersunk into the nut and secures it in place. So, if you were trying to raise the nut you would first loosen the center bolt and then turn the other two.
To install an adjustable nut yourself you would need to find a way to embed a threaded sleeve into the center of your headstock. I'm not clear on how that is done and I personally wouldn't take on the project because I'd be afraid of drilling straight through! (My graphite fretless is very thin from front to back at that point!)
Jimmy J
-
Wow, I had same question about my old Series 1 bass, and here s the answer! Perfect!
So on E string where first fret to be is .037 from e string to F fret, but when I put capo on F fret I have 0.18 on F#...
-
Hey Goran,
Glad to see you are still working on tweaking your Series bass. Hopefully you had success on the bridge end, so now you're looking at the nut.
This is an old thread but I still like the "zero-fret" idea; that the first fret "gap" should be very close to the same whether playing an open-E or a fingered low-F. The nut has a big effect on the overall feel of the action because if one or more strings are too high at the nut you are essentially pushing them that extra distance for the entire length of the fingerboard.
That measurement above (.037) is from not necessarily the number you are looking for, that's just what the OP was getting. If you have only 0.18 on F# with a capo, and the strings are not rattling, then you could probably lower the nut to be at least closer to that number. If you actually have a capo that can hold down all your strings on that first fret, you could see what a perfect "zero-fret" feels like. (Bass capo? I dunno about that! But it would need to be ON the first fret and not simply behind it because the large diameter of our strings might make the string too high if bent over a fret with too much pressure...)
FYI, I used the same method of a string on a wood block to act as a nut file. And to make life easier (and avoid scratching up the bass) I took the nut off and screwed it to a piece of wood. Then I tried to cut the slots at a slight angle down towards the tuning machine side while trying to get the bottom of the slot on the fingerboard side to match my home-made 12" radius gauge..... In the end, my work was probably not perfect but it did seem to be an improvement.
Jimmy J
-
Question to Jimmy J and anyone interested to reply:
With no string fretted, what is your string height at the 12th fret?
Little Stevie
-
Hey Little Stevie,
That measurement will vary to taste Some people like a really flat fingerboard and low action while others who play harder may prefer more relief. My 12th fret clearance at the moment looks like .095" on the G-string side and .115" on the low-B-string side. I generally play pretty light so that may be considered low. It's up to the individual!
Jimmy J
-
Hey Jimmy not for nut is my old Series 1 bass, but for bridge is my MK5 K-Balance like the bass to have a slight bow and my measurement for sting no fretted on 12 fret is 0.11 (hope I got the inch right) so 2.7 mm.
And about capo, it just a normal capo. I found that works on bass too... and yes with capo feel is way batter, with capo on I would need to put strings even higher for my feel, but now it doesn't have any buzzes with capo on so.. ;)
-
Goran, maybe try loosening up the truss rod just a little bit to give it a slight bow forward, that should raise the strings just a little bit and might get rid of the buzz. That’s what I do with mine.
-
Goran, maybe try loosening up the truss rod just a little bit to give it a slight bow forward, that should raise the strings just a little bit and might get rid of the buzz. That’s what I do with mine.
Ah sorry you misunderstood, I'm actually bragging how bass doesn't have any buzzes... I just want to lower the nut a bit! :)
-
Ah, I see, very good! :)
-
Well there you go Goran, just tune the bass down a half-step and use the capo. That makes it a medium scale bass with a very lovely action, but the markers will all be in the wrong places. Ha! (Just kidding, bad idea).
OK so you're talking about the nut on your Series bass and the bridge is your MK5, got it. Your series nut (above) is not adjustable so again I'll say, go slowly with the "string file" and keep checking for progress.
And I'm sure you can lower the saddle slots on the E, A and D on your MK5 too. When I worked on my bridge I removed it from the bass, clamped it to a piece of wood, and moved all the saddles to one end before I started "filing" with the string-block. You don't want to rock the saddles back and forth too hard or you can enlarge the mounting holes. I had my little cardboard radius gauge as a guide and even put a little mark on the saddles I was trying to adjust as a target. Slow going, keep checking... You can do it!
Jimmy J
-
Hi, so I was doing it for past 4 hour just the g string, and have to say that for me it doesn't work with string and wood block.
So I just ordered Hosco nut files
https://guitarpartscenter.eu/en_US/p/HOSCO-TL-NF3B-Double-Edge-Nut-File-Set/12699
Btw. I called a bunch of luthiers here no one has files for bass nut, weird, they all do it by feel with normal file. Probably they are more skilled than me, heh.
Anyway, thanks a lot, it's coming in few days so I'll be back with the result.
-
Goran,
Well, I'm sorry if I led you down the wrong path... But those nut files should definitely do the trick. I have a set of those too and may have used them to do the initial cutting (it's been a long time so I can't completely remember my method). But check the edges carefully for size against your actual string diameters because my file set varied slightly from the marked sizes. In fact, the .120 file I got was more square than round. And, the two different edges on each file are different diameters so be careful to not turn the tool over while working. I marked mine, as you see below.
A slightly smaller slot than your actual string diameter would be preferred to an oversized slot. You want the string to fit snuggly. If you do the main cut with a slightly undersized file, THEN you should be able to work the string back and forth for the perfect fit.
Let us know how it goes. Don't get too good at this or you will be doing repairs for everybody! :)
Jimmy J
-
You didn't led me to wrong path, I'm just not as good as you are with fingers :)
Yea I got really good one (file), so I think it will be alright...
Will keep you posted.
Thanks
-
I’ve been using a .10-.46 Hosco set for years. Good files.
Bill, tgo
-
I’ve been using a .10-.46 Hosco set for years. Good files.
Bill, tgo
Guitarist's and their small radii's.... ;)
Jimmy -
If I understand correctly you do a rough cut with a file and then do a finishing/ burnishing type pass with an actual string mounted on a wood block?
Any pictures of that set up?
Paul (who has absolutely no need to alter his nut but loves creative work arounds, fixtures and jigs)
-
Paul,
It's been a long time since I did this but yes, I think that was my method. I made the initial cut with a file, smaller than the diameter of my string, then used the abrasion of an actual string to get the best fit. As I recall, the G-string slot was too deep into the brass to use my woodblock trick so I probably just held a string tight and pulled it back and forth through the slot. Or, maybe I just trusted the .045 file on that one...
Ha, I just looked in my mess room and found this below. As you can see, nothing fancy!
Jimmy J
-
Here's a set of bass nut files.http://www.amazon.com/Holmer-Nut-Slotting-Crowning-Luthier/dp/B08JGDN2V2/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=Nut+File&qid=1612314068&sr=8-16 (http://www.amazon.com/Holmer-Nut-Slotting-Crowning-Luthier/dp/B08JGDN2V2/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=Nut+File&qid=1612314068&sr=8-16)
-
Damn Jimmy :)
I was holding the string together with the block... I wish I had an idea about putting a tape to hold the string :)
You are a pro!
-
8) ;D
-
Ok so here we go I did it on both of my basses, so happy.
On my Series 1 I lowered the nut height with files that I ordered it was an quite easy job, but I went really easy with it just so I don't have to make a new nut.
I also did bridge radius adjust, I realized that I could file that too because string it just needed one and a half mm, but then I screw the A string which was to low, so I just filed half of milimeter E and D string and now it perfect. So thank you all for suggestions!
Both basses now plays great, Series 1 is like a new bass... so smooth!
Thanks all
-
Goran!
Great work! Now we know who we can send our basses to to get adjusted. HA! It's very satisfying to be able to tweak your own instruments like this, and usually a good learning experience. Well done!!
Jimmy J
-
Yep, it's great feeling after you get into it and realize you could do it... but all before that is nightmare :)
-
I’ve been using a 10-46 set of those Hosco files for years. Glad they worked out for you.
Bill, tgo
-
Great Goran