Introduction

[kimberly]

Hi Rich,
 
You''re very welcome.  
 
You are right that you do not have the ability to independently adjust the volume of the individual/different layers in a single phrase.  For example, using the RC-50's three phrases, you can only adjust the phrase volumes with each other, not the parts/layers on/in each phrase.  With the XL-20 I had previously, you could only adjust the overall/'master' volume for all parts/layers together, as it only has a single phrase.
 
You are also correct in saying three 30 second parts use 1 1/2 minutes of loop time no matter how many times you repeat it.
 
Good plan to do your research in advance, to 'maximize' your time in store and as well, to not 'get caught up in the moment' and suffer buyers remorse after the fact.  I hate it when that happens.
 
Happy to help.  
 
Bestest,
 
Kimberly  

[richbass939]

Kimberly,
Thanks again.  I'm not sure I understand.  Tell me if this is correct.  It sounds like several layers can make up a phrase.  As you add layers to a phrase the relative volumes of the layers are set.  (Can you delete a layer because it is too loud or soft and re-record it on the same phrase or do you have to start over and build the phrase from scratch?)  You can set up several phrases.  You can play one or all of the phrases at the same time.  You can stomp on or off the different phrases to add to or take away from the overall sound.  
Does the RC20 have most of these features?  I was kind of hoping that I could get a suitable looper in the $200 - $250 range.  I think the RC50 is more like $500, right?
When I'm around a guitar store I usually have the wife and kids with me.  It doesn't take long before it's can we go now?  I need to not waste a lot of time when I'm in that situation.  Rather than buy before I know what I want I just pass on a purchase until I can thoroughly research it.  That usually means waiting for a few months.  Living in the boonies does have its pains in the butt.
Rich

[kimberly]

Hi Rich,
 
Okie dokie and here we go.  
 
Answers...
 
Yep, each part is a layer.  A phrase is made up of parts/layers.
 
Layer volumes are set via instrument and looper input gain on a general level and finger 'attack' on a minor adjustment level.
 
Phrase volume is set by looper output and amplifier settings.  
 
A layer can be deleted due to a mistake, or incorrect volume, or even just because you don't like it via the 'handy dandy' Undo/Redo function on both the RC-20 and RC-50.  This feature is good for only the last layer you ummm...'lay down'.  For example, if you make a five layer phrase and 'blow' layer five, you can redo layer five.  If you lay down layer five and like layer five, but are then dissatisfied with layer four, or three, or two, or one for that matter, you're stuck with it.  Then you would have to rebuild from scratch.  To summarize, you can only redo the last layer you 'lay down' on both the RC-20 and RC-50.  
 
You can set up/lay down *only one phrase* at a time on the RC-20.  You can have multiple phrases by saving them, but you can only 'call up' one phrase at a time (similar to songs on a CD, one song at a time).
 
Blather...
 
The above is a pretty good analogy by the way (CD songs) and how I approach my 'stuff'.  I have a setting for rhythm and tempo saved to a song title.  Then when I play, I select the song I want, fire it up and begin layering down with my bad self.
 
The RC-50 allows text input to title your phrases.  The RC-20 only saves your phrases to a numbered bank.  In other words, you have to remember what song number one is and what song number two is etc with the RC-20.
 
The RC-50 is also different from the RC-20 because it has three phrase capability.  In this instance you can play all three at once, or in combination like phrase one and phrase two, or phrase one and phrase three, or phrase two and phrase three, as you see fit and what meets your need/application for the tune.  (Remembering of course, each phrase can have multiple parts/layers.)
 
Sooo...
 
The RC-20 has only one phrase at a time and is about half the price of the RC-50.
 
The RC-50 has up to three phrases at a time and costs about $500.
 
They both have the 'handy dandy' Redo/Undo feature.
 
The RC-50 is stereo with almost double the record time of the RC-20.  This time can also be extended by running it in mono instead of stereo, which doubles the record time (40 something minutes iirc).  The RC-20 is mono.
 
The RC-50 allows text input.
The RC-20 doesn't support text input.
 
I think this covers everything.  If not, I'll be around and try to clean this up some more.  I hope it's getting closer to what type of information you're looking for.
 
As an aside, have you considered ordering from an online store being as how you live in the booinies?  Delivery to your door and usually 30 days to try it out.  A lot of online stores also have discounts on equipment that has been ordered and returned for various reasons such as, someone finds it doesn't meet their needs and they return it in like new condition.  I mentioned earlier I initially had the RC-20XL.  I returned it when I found it didn't meet my needs and upgraded to the RC-50 no questions.  I got my synth as a return from someone who found it didn't meet their needs.  I think it was about a 10% discount.  Something to think about.
 
Nuff for this one.  Time to stretch again.
 
Have you figured out I'm a yakker yet?  
 
Bestest,
 
Kimberly  

[richbass939]

Kimberly,
The looper picture is starting to come into focus.  That is a good idea about buying online with the return option.  I'll check into it.  I buy online some but I always know exactly what I want.  The whole looper idea is brand new to me.
Seeing your videos has made clear a whole new way to get back into performing more regularly.  I play a bit with some really good musicians and do real gigs about as often as I want to.  However most of the clubs in town do open mikes rather than jam sessions.  So backing up people would be rather limited unless we worked it out ahead of time.  In your videos I see something I could do solo.  I suppose you would see this more as a compliment rather than a rip-off. LOL
Yakker?  I hadn't noticed.  I see it more as the experienced sage than as Mahatma Ramble-on-anand. LOL
Rich

[kimberly]

Hi Rich.  
 
I'm glad I've been able to 'enlighten' you.  
 
And you're absolutely right, I take your interest/inspiration as a high compliment rather than a rip-off, for which I truly thank you.  Helping others has always been one of the most gratifying things I've done and do with my life.  It's the payback for me to see that 'light' in ones eyes when the pieces come together to form a picture.  Yeah, I can dig it.  Thanks.  
 
Peace,  
 
Kimberly  
 
PS.  I *might* be making a road trip through CO in a couple/few weeks on my way to do some gigging down Louisiana way.  Jam?  

[richbass939]

Kimberly,
Jam?  Absolutely.  I have a few really good jam buddies around here.  Let me know when you are coming through.  Drop me an e-mail and we'll figure out a day that would work for both of us.  Pretty full schedule here most of the time but not so full that we couldn't work up a jam session.  March 2-4 is out though.  I'll be out of state.
Rich

[kimberly]

Hi Rich,
 
Sorry for the delayed response, as I'm still trying to work the details.  Departure is either late the 24th, or early the 25th.  Route planning is based on weather conditions.  So, generally speaking, what part of the state do you live in?  I know a guitarist in Grand Junction that I'd like to see.  Course if I take the southern route, CO is moot.  I don't know, I just don't know...
 
I'll keep you posted.  
 
Kimberly

[richbass939]

Kimberly,  as you may know, it's impossible to plan around the weather more than a few days away especially in CO this time of year.  I live in NW Colorado.  I would like to see your gig if I can.  We'll see what happens.
Rich

[kimberly]

Hi Everybody.  
 
  I'm just trying to do a little catch up, as life has been keeping me pretty busy of late.  I also see this as an opportunity to take a break and have a little fun before reality strikes again.  
 
  My road trip has been delayed by about three weeks.  We've entertained the idea of downsizing for quite some time and thought this would be a good time to 'test the waters' and see what kind of response we would get with putting our house on the market.  Before it even listed friends made us an offer we couldn't refuse and so we've until the end of the month to find a different place to live, not to mention preparing for the move.  Needless to say, I've packed quite a few boxes during the last week.  With the decision to rent there's no pressure to find a replacement house as of yet, so on the plus side when all is ready for the movers, I'm southward bound.
 
  Another positive is having some time every now and then to continue 'polishing' some of my material.  Here's a link to my latest version of 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow'.  It's only a couple of days worth of 'messing around' and will undoubtedly continue to evolve, as I'm already combining different 'sections' from the first version with some of this one.  It's already different from when I captured the video last night.  Evolution.  Sweet.  
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY7KOreLnqo
 
With another break or so, I'll see about a video of George Benson's Breezin'.  It's translated surprisingly well to the bass with four loops and one synth voice.  It's also gotten a lot of attention as I'm sure you can imagine.  Something about a chick bass player playing 'jazz guitar' and a synth flute while wildly looping away with seemingly little care in the world.  I love it.  
 
Rich - My route is still uncertain, not to mention any specific dates, though I think it highly unlikely I'll make through your part of the country based on what I've seen of current weather conditions.  Of course a lot an happen in several weeks, so anything's possible.  Maybe on the return trip, if not this time.
 
  Also due to the aforementioned weather conditions, I'm likely going to take the longer southern route which will take me past the general vicinity of the mother ship.  I'll be in touch when I have more specifics.  A tour would be very cool, not to mention the possibility of playing some other instruments.  And putting some faces to voices over the phone and from typed communications.  Priceless.  
 
Life is hectic but good.
 
Best Regards,
 
Kimberly  

[lowlife]

The harmonics and their overtones are very pleasing to listen to; I'm impressed.   I've never been able to figure out how to play with harmonics; guess I'm just an old Funkasaurus (endangered, but not extinct) .  Nice piece of work.
 
Ellery (Lowlife)

[kimberly]

Hi Ellery,
 
Thank you very much, I appreciate the compliment.  
 
It's interesting timing, as just last night I caught a segment of Jaco's Modern Electric Bass DVD and he was talking about harmonics.  It all started for him when he noticed a guitarist using harmonics to tune.  As we all know that then led to his development of one of his 'signature trade marks' with his ground breaking 'WTF is he doing' style.  
 
Truly, if you tune with the 5th and 7th fret harmonics, you have some serious harmonic fundamentals quite literally right at your fingertips.  
 
For example, when using the 5th fret harmonic on your E string and 7th fret harmonic on your A string to tune your E string.
 
If you hit the 7th fret harmonic on the A string and then fret the 8th fret (a 'C' note) on the E string, you have a fretted C root with a major third harmonic.  Add an open G string 5th fret harmonic (a 'G' note) and you then have a fretted C root with a major 3rd and 5th (actually it's a 2 octave higher G, a 24th?) harmonics.  Anyway, in other words a basic C chord.  
 
I'm able to 'reach' this configuration of notes by first hitting my 5th fret open G string 'G' harmonic letting it 'sing and ring'.  I then hit the 7th fret open A string harmonic, letting it also 'sing and ring', then hit my fretted C root on the E string 8th fret, or reverse order.  Either way there you have it, a basic C chord with the C root, E note major third and G note fifth.  
 
Something else.  I realize I've made the assumption you use 5th and 7th fret harmonics to tune.  Not a good thing to do to assume.  Let me digress.
 
For example, on the 12th fret of any string (easy harmonics)  .  
 
You play the harmonic by placing your finger literally directly over the fret.  Don't fret it, just apply a bit of pressure as when you're muting. Strike the string and quickly remove your finger so as to not deaden the harmonic note.  If you do it right, it will 'ring and sing'.  If not, it'll just go 'thud'.
 
I hope you don't think this presumptuous of me to 'give a lesson'.  I'm a just a giver and like to help.  
 
If you try this and find it's not as difficult as you've maybe thought it was, from there just begin to 'experiment' and determine the note names of the harmonics you can find and play.  Once you have the names, it's much easier to understand what's happening and be able to start building chords.    (A hint is to use the 5th, 7th and 12 frets to start)  
 
Gahhhh...I talk too much, gotta go!  Lol!
 
Regards,
 
Kimberly  

[David Houck]

Very nice!!

[lowlife]

Thanks for the lesson, and I didn't find it presumptuous at all.  But you are right in that I don't tune with the 5th and 7th fret harmonics.  I use either an 'A' tuning fork and with the A-string in tune press on the 5th and 7th space to get the upper/lower octave of the next string to be tuned.
 
Or the lazy way, of using one of 3 different digital tuners (LOL).
 
I'm going the experiment with the harmonics this morning.  Everything will be dependant upon the frustration level.
 
Ellery (Lowlife)

[kimberly]

Hi Everybody.  
 
Thanks Dave, I'm glad you enjoyed.  
 
Ellery, you're most welcome for the 'lesson'.   By now I would think you're happily making harmonics, or strugglin' and cursing the day I was born, or considering giving your basses away.  Just for the record, I'd be happy to take them off your hands.  
 
Truly I wish you the best, for if you persevere you can attain and will enjoy success.  As Victor Wooten said on the Bass Day 98 DVD, It's just a matter of coordination.  Everyone laughed out loud.  Easy for him to say eh?  Seriously, just take your time and work it incrementally.  Kind of like the question, How do you eat an elephant?  Answer, One bite at a time.  
 
On another 'note'.
 
I was up early and ran Breezin for the record.  No harmonics, but still pretty durn cool if I do say so myself.
 
For your viewing and listening enjoyment.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8tTZt8djKw
 
Best Regards,
 
Kimberly

[kimberly]

To those who are interested in looping.  
 
On Breezin' I'm doing something different from my other looping material.  Basically I'm switching the 3rd and 4th loops on and off, to differentiate between the 'A' and 'B' sections of the tune.  I'm able to do this on the Boss RC-50 due to it's having different phrases to record on to.  Phrase one starts with the 'A' section 'guitar' rhythm followed by the bass line.  Phrase two has the 'B' section 'guitar' rhythm doubled with the synth flute.  
 
When I start my 'guitar' solo section, I turn phrase two off to keep it 'cleaner' and just run the phrase one 'A' section parts.  Then when coming out, I'll restart the phrase two 'B' section to fatten it up again.  Same with the synth flute solo section.  Though there are sections where I'm going 'full blast' with everything happening at once, at least initially I use the dynamics aspect of adding and subtracting the 'B' section to make the changes more obvious to the listener.  I find it more interesting for myself as well.
 
Just for informational purposes, to those who are interested in looping.  
 
Also, I don't work for Roland or Boss.  I just use their gear.  
 
Regards,
 
Kimberly  
 
PS.  To those who note I don't do the 'kicks'.  You're right, I don't.  Maybe I'll get around to incorporating them, but for now I'm having too much fun.  In the immortal words of some unknown soul from some unknown period, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  
 
PPS.  There is another part I do, though as with this time and most times, I forget to do it.  Maybe next time.  It's that evolution thing again.