Is an alembic a good financial investment?

[jzias]

Prices have gone up drastically during the past decade.  In a desperate moment, I sold my stunning Cocobolo 5 String Mark King Standard to my friend for $1500 in 2003. I had it built in 1996, and it cost me $2400.  He won't sell it for less than $3500 today.
 
(Message edited by jzias on October 07, 2012)

[tmoney61092]

Well that friend is a real douchebag
 
~Taylor

[jzias]

He reads here sometimes so I'll go light, lol! I've touched upon that, as I did ask him to sell it back to me for what I sold it to him for if he ever unloaded it.  Unfortunately, that's not how most people work!

[Bradley Young]

I'm going with Betteridge's Law of Headlines

[charles_holmes]

Usually, outstanding craftsmanship coupled with fine/exotic woods will usually be a good investment. You may not get back what you paid for it but you won't lose your yammies if you do decide to sell. I will probably sell my Series Distillate when I'm 98 yrs old and by then it should be a collectors item and I'll get double what I paid for it (hee hee!!)

[cozmik_cowboy]

I had not heard of that law, but I've often thought it - thanks for the link, Bradley.
 
Peter

[5a_quilt_top]

It has been my experience that investing in instruments for financial gain is as risky as investing in anything governed by the laws of supply & demand.  
 
In this case, the risk is compounded by the fact that most instruments are not as attractive to the average investor as precious metals, stocks, bonds, securities, currency or real estate because instruments belong to a niche market. Unless certain examples are commanding stupid money ('58 - '60 Les Pauls, for example), most investors shy away from this type of market and leave it to the experts - musicians in this case - to set the values.
 
Unfortunately, musicians as a group are GENERALLY not as well off financially as investors in other areas (apologizing in advance to the exceptions). Most of us are unable to pay insanely high prices to begin with and usually can't afford to acquire instruments that we keep only because they may increase in value. This is compounded by the fact that most of us buy and sell our instruments urgently or emotionally, which puts us in a position of weakness and virtually guarantees that we will not realize the full potential of our investments.
 
All of this combines to ensure a continuous supply of reasonably nice instruments - a buyer's market - and this means lower prices overall.
 
I work for a small guitar store and I see the gotta get rid of this to get THAT syndrome all the time. In fact, we count on it because we make money off both the purchase and the trade.
 
I advise anyone who is serious about building a collection to think real hard about trading or selling anything, especially within 3-5 years after buying it. And - don't buy anything you don't like.
 
If you've paid a fair price for a high quality item that is well-made and consistently performs well, it will eventually be worth at least what you paid for it, maybe more, but only if you are able to hold onto it for at least 10-15 years.
 
As far as Alembics go, they fall into that category. I didn't buy any of mine on the chance that I could flip them for a quick buck in 3-5 years. In fact, I don't know if I'LL ever make any money on them in my lifetime.
 
But, I do know that I enjoy the h*ll out of them now (which is priceless) and they will certainly be worth more than the original price I paid to the person fortunate enough to acquire them after I'm gone.

[jim777]

I wouldn't buy one as an investment, but it might help me sell the purchase to the Mrs  I would love an SII but I simply can't see it realistically happening.

[u14steelgtr]

A used Alembic should typically be resellable for as much or more than you pay for it if it is well maintained.  
 
However as investments go a new Alembic is a no-go.  They depreciate a tremendous amount as soon as they arrive in the first owners hands.  
 
Alembics get played, get scratched, get dinged, sometimes fall off a stand, and sometimetimes get some deterioration or crazing in their finish. Any of these things can depreciate an instruments resale value.  
 
If you are playing for money good instruments are a cost of doing business. However this leads to the question: what will the return on investment of one instrument versus another instrument be?  
 
Unless one is investing in very vintage and highly collectable instruments and you have a climate controlled environment in which to store the instruments, instruments are a risky investment.  
 
I have a nice acoustic which probably needs about $2000 in repairs. Yes the repairs will be made; however this will cut in to my return on investment. My guess is that my Alembic would not bring anything close to $2000 if I were to sell it. If my Alembic needed more work than some polish and new strings I doubt that I could ever recover the cost of the repairs.

[afrobeat_fool]

Well, having just poked my head into GBASE, I saw one silly deal on a fantastic early SI for 3500. Wish I had the money for that. And an interesting rise in value in a few late 70's early 80's basses. Last summer I got an early SII shorty from Bass NW for 5k. A store is asking more than that for a SI shorty from 79.  
 
Is this a new trend? I don't know. But as prices for food and housing go up, shouldn't the value of vintage high quality items increase in value?
 
I hope so, If food prices keep going up I will have to start eating my basses. Mmmmmm Alembic munchies...... Mica, if you start making those, I will need a cut.
 
       
Up in smoke, that's where my money goes.
 
Speaking of munchies.

[svlilioukalani]

In an era where most if not all instruments are being cut by CNC machines. In an era where all the great bass builders are degrading their name by selling off shore imports. Alembic stands alone.  
 
I am not looking to profit from my Alembics unless it from m bass playing.  
 
But.  Lets think long term. 30 years from now hand made instruments will almost be a thing of the past. When Mica's child takes over the business, and Ron and Susan are no longer coming the office each day. That is when I feel the world will again take notice of the art and mastery of Alembic instruments. Unfortunately, most great art remains undiscovered and undervalued until the artiest dies.  
 
My bet is, this will be the case with our Alembic instruments. Not sure if I will live that long, But someday the bass world will realize that a fender bass is a good utilitarian tool but not a great work of art. In my heart I believed each of my alembic basses is a solid work of art. People will in time will begin to crave hand make things. Real craftsmanship is becoming a thing of the past. Alembic represent the highest level of craftsmanship. They are also tools to play music. And the sound is second to none. Awesome works of art. Time will tell their story. And that's when their monetary value will be fully recognized.
 
The electric bass is here to stay.

[jzstephan]

Stradivari's Lady Tennant violin was sold in 2005 by Christie's for more than $2 million, the highest amount ever paid for a musical instrument at a public auction. Take good care of your Alembics. 300 years from now your great, great, great grandchildren will appreciate it.

[jim777]

In an era where most if not all instruments are being cut by CNC machines. In an era where all the great bass builders are degrading their name by selling off shore imports. Alembic stands alone.
 
Alembic definitely stands alone, but there are a few other high end builders who do not use CNC machines or sell basses made overseas. And quite a few of the overseas made instruments made by some of the other high end companies (like Zon, Sadowsky, Lakland, and Elrick, off the top of my head) are superb instruments.
****************
jzias wote Prices have gone up drastically during the past decade. In a desperate moment, I sold my stunning Cocobolo 5 String Mark King Standard to my friend for $1500 in 2003. I had it built in 1996, and it cost me $2400. He won't sell it for less than $3500 today.
 
I think I would buy it if I saw it come up for sale at that price, honestly. Might take a little while to convince the Mrs., but I am 90% sure I would snatch that up. It's not much of an upside, but i guess you can be thankful he isn't actually offering it up for sale.
 
(Message edited by jim777 on October 10, 2012)

[hammer]

Looking at this in the short- as well as the long-term, I'd have to agree that the law of supply and demand really dictates a lot of what one might be able to get for an instrument.
 
Earlier in the present recession (probably about 3-4 years ago), there was a period of about 6-12 months during which there were a relatively large number of Alembic instruments up for sale nationally on  Ebay, GBase, and Craigslist. They included everything from Series II bases to Epics. Most listings included some type of statement alluding to the need for the sale being loss of job. Prices were quite reasonable (I picked up an 86' walnut Distillate in just about perfect condition for $1,800.
 
Recent months have seen fewer Alembics offered for sale overall (is this a good indication that we are in recovery) and the majority of those that have been on the market have been Epics. For those smaller number of non-Epic basses available prices have risen accordingly with sellers asking $2,300 to $3,500 for Spoilers.
 
As far as new basses go, it's like buying a new car, as soon as you drive it off the lot it depreciates significantly. So, buying used would appear to make the best sense and I applaud those who have waited for years for just the right bass to come up for sale.  Personally, I swore I would never buy new BUT...I looked for over 2-years for a Further guitar for my son and eventually had a build done because nothing came up for sale while I was looking (over course several popped up as soon as I made the down payment). I then finally came to terms with the fact that what I was looking for in a bass for myself would be very unlikely to appear and currently have a Signature build in the process (Yes, I'll admit that I was also a bit jealous  of my son).
 
As far a new builds go, I think one thing that has a tremendous impact on how much of your original investment you get back is the extent to which the instrument is customized. We all have things that we convince ourselves that we just need (as opposed to prefer/want) to have on our new basses. These aspects of the build, including LEDS, inlays, cutaways, high priced front and back lams can get to be quite expensive and may add thousands of dollars to a build. Based on personal experience I can say that these are extremely hard to resist. The problem is that if I ever resell at some point, others may not have nearly the need that I did to have front and back lams, continuous wood back plates, premium woods, LEDS etc. making it a lot more difficult for me to get even close to what I paid for the instrument.

[adriaan]

CNC machines are not evil - just check the Meet Our Equipment page at the main Alembic site. I'm pretty sure it's not used as a cookie-cutter but rather as a precision instrument.