(x) Body Shape

[shim]

is their cost more or same? If the cost of knob is more than switch (as I quess), I'lll go to the normal toggle switch. And If you say their costs are same, I'll think about them. It's just a small option about my bass and electronics will be installed after caving the bass, so you can make my bass in time. Please answer about my question, Mica~

[mica]

It's a small amount extra for the knob style, $500 instead of $400.  
 
Your bass was started today. I prefer you make your decision within another week about the electronics so there isn't any delay when it comes time to route the electronics. We will place all the controls slightly differently depending on if you have standard Signature electronics, if you add the switches or it you add the knobs.

[bob]

You should really think about whether you want quick changes, or more possible settings.
 
If you like the look of knobs better, and you do not really need to quickly choose one of three possible settings with the control, then I think you would be better off with the potentiometers (knobs with no fixed settings).
 
With the three position toggle, you might find that you only use two of the positions, and wish you had more choices in between.
 
If you need to be able to just flick a switch for a different sound, for a solo or something, then the toggles might be a good choice.
 
But otherwise, I think it would be worth a small amount of extra cost to have a more flexible control.
 
Just my opinion. Good luck.

[shim]

Thanx your opinion, bob~
 I have a question.
Is there difference in control range between knob and toggle?  
What I mean... If I install the toggle, how much dB could I add or cut?
 and... If I install the knob, how much dB could I control?
 is there difference??

[bob]

I am sorry, I don't know the exact values off hand. You may be able to find them in the FAQ section, or by searching, but you never know exactly what Alembic is doing these days.
 
My guess is that the cut and boost on the toggle, would be pretty close to the extremes of the range with a standard knob. I think it is safe to say that a knob will get you at least as far as the two (non-flat) positions with the toggle; it may go a little further, but I don't know.
 
Hopefully Mica will clarify this, but I believe that the knob will give you at least as much range, in both directions, as the toggle. The difference will be that the knob allows you to pick positions in between the extremes, and offer you more flexibility - if you are willing to twiddle the knob to find the right place.
 
Again, my thinking is that the extremes are often less interesting than the positions in between. A toggle is nice if you need to make a fast change, in exactly the same way, but it can also limit your options.

[shim]

bob~ Mica posted about this discussion in the page Alembic bass. check it.

[shim]

So.... Mica, I decide about my electronics. I want to install the potentiometers (knobs with no fixed settings).  
 
And, Please advice about the lay-out of my electronics.  
 
 My electronics will be one toggle for side LED, two Q toggles for each pick-up, two Q-control knobs for each pick-up, one volume knob, one Pan knob, and the additional treble and bass knob. Wow, so many controllers;;;;
 
 I have no idea about their positions, and you may have many experience in it, so if you suggest the outline of electronics in my bass, it will be very helpful.  
 
 
 Thanx for your help, Mica and bob & bsee.

[shim]

And, about the type of additional knobs, I prefer Pointer knobs in your shop.

[the_8_string_king]

Hey Shim, I don't know if you're getting these or not, but I'd recommend 3-position Q switches.  A 3-position Q (that goes either 0/4/8 or 0/3/6 or 0/6/9 dbs) is a VERY useful upgrade that is MUCH more versatile than the standard 2-position 0/8 db Q switches that are standard on the Signature, Europa, and Rogue basses.  I'd recommend thinking about this.

[shim]

Hi, Mark~ Thanx for your suggestion.
I know the 3-position Q switch is more versatile, but I should consider about the money which I can use in building my bass.
Anyway, I will consider your suggestion. Thanx, Mark.
 
(Message edited by Shim on January 07, 2007)

[the_8_string_king]

Hey, Shim, by all means, get what is right for YOU.  I have experience with both the bass & treble toggles and the 2-position Q switch on my old Elan with Europa electronics; and my Custom Europa has the knobs/potentiometers, and a Q that goes 0/4/8/12 dbs.
 
In my opinion, Alembic's bass & treble knobs are not substantially more versatile than the switches (the 3-position toggles).  The knobs only boost to 6 dbs -like the toggles- and -in my opinion- the cut isn't useful past -6dbs.
 
It would be different if the boost range were higher; if we were comparing knobs with a +/- range of 12 or 15 dbs to toggles with a +/- 6 db range, that would be one thing.  But since the knobs only boost up to 6 dbs, which is only a moderate boost, the in-betweens don't amount to much.  And I've never used my knobs to cut past 6 dbs... it just doesn't sound good... there's no point.
 
On the other hand, if you were to take that $100 for the price jump to the knobs, and put it into a 3-position Q, with an extra in-between position... THAT adds a LOT of VERY NOTICEABLE versatility.  The standard jump of the Q from 0 to 8 dbs is a big jump, and the Q on and Q off sounds have a pretty big and stark gulf/contrast between them.  I use my 4db Q setting a lot, and being able to vary it is very useful and satisfying.  (I believe the price for the upgrade is or was $125 per switch, but confirm that with Beaver and/or Alembic -if you're interested.)
 
Anyway, get what you want, and I don't want to complicate anything for you.  It's just my opinion, and maybe being able to vary the nuances of the bass and treble is more important to YOU.  It's just my opinion, and one thing's for sure... it'll sound GREAT either way you do it, and all that matters is that it's what YOU want!
 
I'll look forward to watching them build your bass!

[shim]

Thanx your explaination for building my bass, Mark~
 
So, in summary you recommend me, not the knobs of bass and treble, but 3-way Q switches, right?
 
I do hardly understand your kind explaination, sorry. ( As I mentioned, I am poor at understanding English.... )
 
Or, do you recommand more wide range bass and treble knob with 3-position Q switches???
 
Or... 4-position Q switches??
 
.... I'm sorry, Mark~ I might not be able to understand what you mean. T-T
 
 Could you summary your opinion to me? If you can, it will be very helpful to build my custom.

[bob]

First, I suggest you forget about the 4-position Q switches, these are not standard and would probably take extra time and money.
 
Mark says that for about the same price, you could get:
 
a) toggle switches for bass/treble, and 3-position Q switches, or
b) knobs for bass/treble, and 2-position Qs
 
If you could spend more money, the best choice might be:
c) knobs for bass/treble, and 3-position Qs
 
If you cannot afford (c), then Mark would choose (a). He does not find a use for the extra cut you get with the bass/treble knobs. He also feels it is more important to have one extra Q setting.
 
3-position Q is much better than 2-position. The standard 2-position Q is 0/8dB. 8dB is a lot. If you really like Q, and want a switch that makes a big change in sound, this is fine.
 
But some people find that 8dB of Q is too much, and would almost never use it (a wasted toggle). Instead, they choose a 3-position toggle, with values of 0/3/6dB (or maybe 0/4/8).
 
Like the tone controls, it depends on whether you want to make lots of small changes, or just a couple of big ones.
 
I agree with Mark that 3-position Q, with small range like 0/3/6, is much better than the standard 2-position Q.
 
I do not agree that I would give up bass/treble knobs. The in-between settings with bass/treble knobs are much more important to me, personally, and I sometimes do use the extra cut.
 
If I could not have (c), I would choose (b) - but change the values on the 2-position Qs to something like 0/4. (Really, I would just borrow some extra money and get 3-position.)
 
My taste is different. I don't think I would ever use 8 dB of Q, but many people like this. Many people are also happy with toggles for bass/treble.
 
I was glad to see that you decided to get the bass/treble knobs, I think you will like them. If you can afford to spend a little more, 3-position Qs would be worth it.
 
I think again the choice is whether you like small changes, or big changes.
 
I hope that helps.
-Bob

[the_8_string_king]

Thanks, Bob, you did a great job of impartially summarizing my position.
 
Shim, Bob pretty much summed it up.
 
Ideally, if money ($) were not an issue, you'd get BOTH the (bass&treble) knobs AND 3-position Q switches (or just Series II with the CVQs).
 
But, to the degree that money is an issue...
 
IF YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE EITHER one or the other, then you might want to CONSIDER sacrificing the KNOBS for the 3-position Q.
 
Really, Bob went and said it all.  It's just a judgement/preference issue.  And it's NO BIG DEAL.
 
You WILL be very happy with whatever you get.  It's just a minor suggestion, nothing to worry about.
 
I found with the 2-position Q switch that is was almost harsh when you turn on the Q.  It's a big jump, going from 0 Q to 8 dbs of Q.
 
I've seen a couple club members comment on this.
 
Alembic electronics are so clean and crisp, that when you add the 8 dbs of Q (the standard setting for the 2 position switches) it's almost overpowering.
 
I think having a SOFTER/LESSER setting is VERY useful.  This is why several club members have ordered their Alembics with 3-position Q switches that go 0/3/6 dbs.
 
But another option you could consider would be to ask them for a lesser/lighter Q setting.  If you decide you don't want to give up your knobs, and can't afford a 3-position Q, you might consider asking them to make your (2-position) Q switch a 0/6 db switch instead of 0/8.  Or a 0/5 or 0/4 switch like Bob said.
 
Regardless, Shim, it's no big deal.  You will be happy either way.
 
I know Alembics are expensive... I recently ordered my 3rd.  But I would recommend getting the 3-position Q.  After dealer discount, we're only talking about 1 or 2 hundred dollars (depending on if you get 1 or 2 (3-position) Q switches).
 
That's NOT really very much money; but the versatility you'll get from a 3-position Q (either 0/3/6 or 0/4/8) is MUCH GREATER than the standard 2-position (0/8 db) Q switch.
 
Hope this helps, Shim.
 
Mark

[shim]

OK, Thanx at all, Mark and Bob. Your advice is so helpful in my decision.  
 
Actually, I want to get the Fodera bass, but once I heard the Alembic sound, I love it a lot. So I want to get the Alembic with their all versatility and their craftsmanship.  
 
But the price is already over my deposit.  
So, I would ask to Mica about the price of the additional 3 way Q toggle electronics.  
 
I hope get the last bass in my life, so it would be worthy to pay for.  
 
 Thanx for your kind explainations~~ Mark and Bob.  
 
 I would memory your help. Thanx.