Author Topic: Buzz Feiten and Alembic (Read 404 times)

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2006, 06:35:37 AM »

As I understand it, Bob, the Feiten temper in the Peterson (and other) tuners is designed to go with the Feiten nut & saddle (or, for electric, intonation variation) - neither will work right without the other. Could be wrong, though - it's been a few years since I read his site.

Peter

bob · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2006, 10:45:42 AM »

Peter, after digging out my manual, I think we're both right but I wasn't very clear.

Some Petersons offer a proprietary temperament called GTR (and a similar one called BAS), to be used with standard tunings, nuts, and intonation procedures, that improves the 4th and 5th intervals and makes a sweeter sound when fretting chords. In this case they tell you to set intonation using EQUal temperament, then tune using GTR.

They also have separate sections about setting intonation, and tuning, when using either the BF or Earvana systems. In these cases, it is indeed a package deal as you say.

Lots of interesting stuff here. I also re-read the section on setting intonation (without special nuts or anything), in which they suggest an alternative to the usual compare the 12th fret note and harmonic - you instead adjust the bridge saddles until the notes (not harmonics) at the 5th and 17th frets are both in tune.

As fascinating as this stuff is, it just makes me happier all the time to not have frets...

tom_z · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2006, 10:52:13 AM »

Here's another perspective on adjusting to the peculiarities of fretted instruments of equal temper.

http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=7&storycode=11780

Peace
Tom

lbpesq · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2006, 12:34:56 PM »

I've always set intonation by matching the open string note and the 12th fret note. It sounds like I may be doing something wrong. Am I?

Bill, tgo

bob · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2006, 12:52:40 PM »

No, Bill, that's the usual technique (and all I've ever done).

This other technique was suggested as perhaps offering better results, but being a real pain to accomplish. In theory, you end up with two areas of the neck that are really close, instead of just one that is essentially perfect. I just thought it was interesting, not particularly tempting.

bigredbass · « **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2006, 10:39:16 AM »

OK, so I read all this and later I change strings on the BigRedBass. Shine up the frets, lemon oil, the whole drill. String it up, double check the neck relief, bridge height, etc.

So at the end I'm checking the 12th fret harmonic/fretted note comparison, get that synched up . . . and then, well let's double check it at the 24th fret. Geez . . . these need to be fine tuned as well! I had no idea.

Now, it sounds MORE in tune than I remember. Am I hearing things?

J o e y

David Houck · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2006, 05:49:35 PM »

David wrote if you're enough of a gearhead to have gotten this far. In my case it's more because I just enjoy reading your posts!

bob · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2006, 10:12:55 PM »

Joey - after you did the 24th, was the 12th still good? I'm guessing the answer is yes, and the 24th just helped you fine tune it a little, but I've never tried this.

bigredbass · « **Reply #23 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:53:44 PM »

Actually Bob, I DID think to go back to the twelfth after I did the 24's (and not all of them were 'out'). Two of them required touching up. I then began chiming the third octave harmonic only to realize . . . there was no fretted note to compare . . . dduuhhhhh. But if I EVER get a 36 fret bass, it's at the top of my list.

J o e y

J o e y

bob · « **Reply #24 on:** December 18, 2006, 10:23:03 PM »

Not to drag this out interminably, but...

I'm skeptical about the value of checking the harmonic/fretted at the 24th, because (a) it is very difficult to fret up there in an accurate and repeatable way and (b) any possible inaccuracies resulting from fret spacing, true scale length, bridge height, blahblahblah, are going to be exaggerated up here, and not terribly relevant to playing in more normal positions.

If it did help (which I can believe), it may be more that it encouraged you to listen more carefully and spend a little more time at the 12th :-)

My guess is it would be more effective to find some harmonic you could use to compare with a fretted note closer to the 5-7 fret range. But I can't ever remember which harmonics are off, and I'm too lazy to investigate (especially since I don't have any frets).

However, I will say that the Guitar Player article referenced above was quite interesting, and I'm intrigued enough just to train my ears that I may pull out my old guitar and run through the exercises.

-Bob

811952 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2007, 06:44:43 AM »

In my opinion the Buzz Feiten tuning system only works on instruments that are otherwise poorly setup and/or played ham-fisted-ly (a new word?).

Unless you're playing everything in the same key, equal-temperment is your friend. You've got the power to play the notes *in tune* right at your fingertips. That's why the best blue notes are the ones that took some bending to reach (as opposed to simply fretting them). I cringe at the notion of having my choice of preferred key built into the instrument any more so than it already is...

John (I'll be nicer after I've had some coffee)