Author Topic: Constant "Beep" during Gig  (Read 500 times)

adriaan

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2008, 05:34:10 AM »
He Chas - now I notice you said that the bridge pickup sounds more aggressive (raw) than the neck pickup, not the other way around. These descriptions are always difficult: I would say that normally the neck pickup sounds more raw (ronkend) and the bridge pickup sounds more aggressive (fel). Does your EVH have the soapbars, or JJs or PJs or PPs?
 
Returning to the beep - it's a high-frequency squeal, like when a microphone goes into feedback but at a very high frequency. The freqency of the squeal is steady, but it changes as you turn the filter.
 
Panning to the bridge pickup, the squeal is at its loudest. Panning to the neck pickup, it goes away almost completely.
 
The problem only occurs at certain venues - not at home, not in rehearsal space. I don't think the 380V or 230V situation makes any difference, as your rig should always run on 230V.
 
Post some pictures if you have any! EVHs go under the Signature models on the Showcase section.

0vid

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2008, 05:40:48 AM »
From this description it sounds like a filter capacitor is dead. A beep is usually thought of as an intermittent sound and a squeal is a more prolonged sound. If the squeal is continuous a filter capacitor in your circuitry is dead - that is the most likely diagnosis I can offer.
 
BTW Adriaan, I have returned home after some time away in Asia and will send you the item I promised.

adriaan

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2008, 05:56:28 AM »
Hi 0vid - welcome back in these parts (or thereabouts). Really looking forward to the item in question!

olieoliver

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2008, 06:07:56 AM »
I got home last night and thought just for kicks I'd see if I could get my MK to beep again thru the Eden. Well no matter what I did it wouldn't. Then I remember that I sent the electronics in for an upgrade so Ovid may be on the right track.
 
Olie

bimmer

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2008, 03:37:42 AM »
If a filter capacitor is dead, how can I test it?
 
Chas

David Houck

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2008, 06:13:27 PM »
I'm not an electronics guy.
 
I ran a search for how to test a capacitor and found - that I'm not an electronics guy.
 
But first, you can open the control cavity and do a visual inspection.  A bad capacitor might look like it's bulging or even have a split.
 
And you can run the test I mentioned above about switching the pickup leads to see if the problem stays with the pickup (the problem is associated with the pickup) or moves to the other pickup (the pickups are not the problem).  (You can do this for the gig; just remember the pan points in the opposite direction than normal.)
 
And then one of the electronics experts here on the board may notice this thread and give some advice on actually testing the capacitors.  From my very quick search, it seems that a good capacitor when charged should show infinite resistance when tested with an ohm-meter; but I'm not comfortable telling you whether or how you should do that.
 
Your best bet is to see what Mica comes up with.  After that, if you've eliminated all other possibilites, you may want to have an electronics tech check the circuits.

811952

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2008, 04:59:35 PM »
I've got a couple of spots on the filter pots where I get that if the Q is on full, and I can feel something intangible in the pots at those positions.  I think in my case the pots are just nearly shot..
 
John

dfung60

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2008, 08:59:56 AM »
bimmer -  
 
I'd try a few different things.  
 
First, I believe your pickups should plug into the EQ board using molex connectors.  If so, the first thing you should try is swapping the pickup leads.  This will cause the bridge pickup to go through the neck pickup's EQ preamp and vice versa.  After you do this, if the beeping is still on the same extreme of the blend pot, then this means it's the preamps rather than the pickups.  
 
If the problem is in the EQ circuits, then I would definitely reduce the trimpots (actually, I would do this in any case).  Your Alembic can generate an enormous amount of output level compared to most basses, so your amp doesn't need (and probably doesn't want) such a high input level.  More on this below.
 
If the beeping switches to the other extreme of the blend pot than before, then the problem is in the bridge pickup - perhaps it's gone microphonic in your playing conditions.  I think this is less likely than a preamp/EQ problem, but it's possible.
 
When you crank the trimpots all the way up you radically increase the output gain (we're talking about more than +20db from typical levels I would guess which is huge).  This will also have the effect of reducing the dynamic headroom on that preamp channel, so you'll probably drive the preamp into clipping before it gets to the output jack.  You might prefer the edgier/distorted sound, but there are probably better ways to get it after the onboard preamps.  A clipped signal has the effect of creating more high harmonics, which is more content for the (stressed) preamp to amplify, which makes the problem even worse.  
 
I suspect that this is actually the core problem that you have, since the problem diminishes when you filter off the high freqs.  A lot of times that you get these beeping and scratching noises are when you are overdriving the preamps with frequencies that you can't hear and that your amp can't amplify.  The Alembic circuits are a purist design which doesn't seem to filter off lows below the fundamentals or highs above the regular harmonics.  So, I woudln't be surprised if the problem is that your setup is creating a lot of 10KHz+ content at high boost and causing the preamp to overload for feedback creating the beep.
 
If the characteristics of the beep change when you change the battery, this is an overload problem.  Changing the battery will increase the headroom of the preamp, raising the level that it can operate at before it clips and causes this feedback problem.
 
This may also be an overload problem past your bass, in your amp or effects if you use any.  You can easily test this by plugging into another amp (even your guitarists' or keyboard amps).  They'll all have slightly different input sensitivity which will cause the frequency and pitch of the beeps to change.  Just as the onboard preamps can be driven to overload with high output levels, the preamp of your bass amp can also suffer exactly this problem.
 
If you like a more grindy, distorted tone, you'll probably have better luck returning the trimpots to their mid-range, then finding a post-bass effects unit that gets you a workable tone.  I know this might not seem very satisfying compared to what you you're doing now (I generally don't care much for external effects units).  But it's better than beeping!  Actually, if the problem is supersonic overdrive (overdrive happening a range that's higher than you hear), you may be able to fix the problem with a low-pass filter set at 5KHz or so.
 
If, after trying all this stuff, the neck pickup preamp is still beeping, I think you may have a failed op-amp.  If the IC is failing, it will exhibit the same sort of problems we're talking about here - reduced headroom, feedback and resonance, etc.  This is a relatively inexpensive socketed component in most Alembic boards, so it's not too horrible to fix either.  
 
There's actually no filter caps in your preamp boards.  Filter caps are part of the power supply circuit that converts AC to DC power.  Your preamp is powered by a battery which is DC.  There are caps that are part of the EQ circuit network, but if they fail the tone control would probably become completely non-functional.  It would be hard to test the caps without removing them from the board (you would do this with a big, expensive filter cap in your power amp, but not with the little ones in the EQ).  
 
More food for thought, anyway,
 
David Fung

David Houck

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2008, 09:34:18 AM »
Thanks David!

0vid

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Constant "Beep" during Gig
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2008, 07:08:40 AM »
Quote:There's actually no filter caps in your preamp boards. Filter caps are part of the power supply circuit that converts AC to DC power. Your preamp is powered by a battery which is DC. There are caps that are part of the EQ circuit network, but if they fail the tone control would probably become completely non-functional. It would be hard to test the caps without removing them from the board (you would do this with a big, expensive filter cap in your power amp, but not with the little ones in the EQ).  
 
The preamp circuitry operates on a limited bandwidth, probably  up to 7khz or so before it starts to trail off. The filtering of high frequency content to limit the operative bandwidth and RF is achieved via a capacitor. If this capacitor goes , squeal is possible.
 
That part of the circuitry is not part of the EQ.