Bass Discrimination

[dnburgess]

Godoze - I agree 100% on overplaying - nobody wants to hear slapping, tapping and harmonics on Proud Mary.

[willie]

dnburgess
Did you ever hear Victor Wooten play Norwegian Wood or Amazing Grace? He does some things there that are definitely different than the original studio versions. Obviously you can overplay a song and turn it into #@%^, but sometimes its nice to hear someone take a song and play it a whole new way as long as they do it Justice.
So godoze, when are you playing around Philly again
Willie

[godoze]

I played in Doylestown Saturday night... A duo with an accordion player. Hemingway sounded very good with the accordion. I cannot wait to install the filter and Q.

[godoze]

Something else that comes to mind from personal experience is that most engineers have an easy time mixing the Fender tone in recordings while many have difficulty trying to incorporate a high fidelity bass. They are just not sure how to deal with a basses tone that is not meat and potatoes.
 
I have experienced this with my Smith basses on several occasions.

[wideload]

The last recording I did, the engineer was pleased to see an Alembic (he is old school San Francisco 70's stock).He ran me from a Countryman DI to a Summit tube pre and got a huge sound right out of the box. Much more satisfying than all that Guitar/Vocal interference you hear on recordings today! Yes, it IS all about me.
 
Larry

[alemboid]

Just by experience...
 
Many engineers like the Fender bass because they have been EQ'ing them for so long they kind of know what to do to get a sound, whereas with Alembics, there is such a robust tonal signal that they are easy to work with.  
 
As far as Ken Smith basses, I think they are beautiful and have a unique tone- which is rare when you think of how many other basses sound so much alike (not to include boutique basses, which tend to have unique audio signals, add to this the basic and unique tonal qualities of the P bass, J bass, Ricky basses and Stingrays). Funny thing is I have heard others comment about having to work to get a sound in the mix on Ken Smith basses. Why? I don't know. I found a freaky K. Smith that I am totally in love with. It's a BSR7EG- yes 7 string! I don't need 7 strings, but the bass is so beautiful, that I can't get it out of my mind!
Don't worry, my intention, should I find the dollars, is to use that bass a platform for solo performance, perhaps accompanied by hand percussion. Just imagine the reaction you'd get for pulling out a 7 string!!!! Talk about discrimination!
Tonally, they seem to have a strong midrange presence. maybe that is what troubles engineers, who knows.  
 
Again, who's to say what is right when they see what we are pulling out of our cases?  
 
Alemboid

[godoze]

I guess the right ones are either the people that hired us or ouselves...

[beelee]

I have been playing bass for over 25 + years, my first bass was a copy of a Fender Jazz, and others were Ibanez Musician, Destroyer II, Washburn B-40 EQ, Kramer Ferrington II, Yamaha RBX 5, RBX 765a, Peavey TL-6, they all have been retired/sold as my tastes changed over the years, now I use Alembic, Conklin, Fodera, Pedulla, Tobias (pre Gibson), Hamer, Zeta, Guild Ashbory, Michael Kelly, still have a fretted and fretless Ibanez Musician basses (till my new Alembic comes!! ) then they will be retired and a Ibanez  Studio 8 string , as well a a Fender P I got used someone put in EMG's and a Kahler whammybar. No one has ever complained about my bass sound, the only comment was from an studio engineer who thought the Washburn sounded like a Rick ! and when people see my Conklin 7 string, they ask what make it is ans LOOK at the size of the neck..How do you play that ? All my basses were a very personal choice,  purchased for what I could afford, the way they look, sound and play, not for brand name, or who uses one, I like unique looking instruments ( I still have one of those Roland GR-77B bass synths ;o)........ bottom line is now days with how far bass building and electronics have come, 5 different people can pick up the same bass, play through the same amp and all sound completely different,  it doesn't matter how many strings are on your bass or what brand it is, I bring up to 5 instruments to a gig and switch for different songs, fretted,fretless, but I play for what the song requires.....original or cover, Dream Theater to Jimi Hendrix, stage or studio.

[jure_the_second]

Well, I got the opposite experience. Once I brought my Alembic on rehersal together with a '78 Jazz. Played a bit on Orion and then switched to Fender. After a couple of songs the guitarist said:
 
This Fender looks nice, but could you switch back to that Alembic, please?
 
Jure

[alemboid]

Cool! I'd hire that guitarist in a snap! :~)
 
He was really listening. No doubt, as we bassists play what the song calls for, we blend in well, and glue the whole band together. Note for note, a bass with consistant tone and presence(Alembic) is really appreciated by those who care. Unfortunately for some of us, what we are seen with seems to be more important than how we sound.  
 
I bet you those image conscious (sorry) jerks that grump when they see something other than a Fender like bass would go nuts if they were told that they should play something other than what they bring to the gig. What would their reaction be if after an audition, they found out they didn't get the gig because they had the wrong guitar, drum sticks, sax, etc.?
 
Some of us are lucky in that you can play what you play, and that is cool enough!
 
I have a dream, that some day a man will be judged, not by the kind of bass he plays, but by the way he plays. -Borrowed and altered from a famous civil rights speaker.

[stab]

About the Fender vs. non-Fender oriented crowd:
I was working with a big-band a while ago, always playing my 70's Telecaster Bass. When I first brought my Alembic to a rehearsal, a trumpet player asked New bass? What kind is it? I replied Alembic.  
Olympic? Never heard of it. Cool, though.  
Another guy notices my bass, walks over and says the same thing: New axe? What kind?  
Alembic.  
Olympic? Never seen one. Nice.  
Band leader shows up. New instrument? What is it?  
Alembic!  
Olympic? Looks cool.
Chick singer arrives. New bass? Nice! What kind is it?
...Olympic.

[richbass939]

I just read the posts on this thread.  Very interesting.  The comments a while back about Can you make it sound like a Fender? reminded me of an article in Bass Player a few years ago.  It was written by David Hungate, most recently (I guess) a top Nashville session player.  The article was about session-ese.  It said what the artist/producer/guitarist/whoever said to the bassist (and a translation into English) and the bassist's response (and translation).  One was  
Singer to bassist:  Can you play something more like so-n-so would play?  
Translation:  We really wanted so-n-so for this session.
Bassist to singer:  Can you sing more like George Jones?
Translation:  Kiss my ass.
 
Rich

[thebass]

I had a gig two months ago in a less than ideal acoustic environment. The soundman and me were tweaking the bass sound while I was playing my beloved MK. The soundman had quite some experience but he didn't know much of bass brands. After some minutes of tweaking the sound was ok but not breathtaking. I told the soundman ok, but let me also try my MM Sterling. He knewed Musicman and said oh yeah, I love Musicman for their clear sound. Let's go !. It was only 30secs of playing when he told me Forget the Sterling, it's nowhere near your other I-dont-know-what bass.
 
Last year another soundman I was gigging with asked me when I was doing soundcheck with my MK Nice bass, but can you make it sounding like a PB ?. I said Sure I could, but I don't want to go that low in quality. Translates to: see last post ;-)

[richbass939]

After my last post I really started thinking about the different bass makers.  I am not exactly a Fender fan.  I have never owned one.  But I don't think anyone can deny Fender's place in music history.  Before the Fender we had to play uprights or tubas.  Can you imagine trying to match volume with a big band with an upright.  I own one and it is hard to play loud for long.  It is exhausting.  Granted I don't practice it much but I can imagine how those gigging bassists felt when the Fender came along.
The way I've heard the story, Fender was the only one around at that time, thus the name Fender bass.
Then move ahead to Motown, etc.  Many of those songs were recorded with Fenders.  It is reasonable that it has many devotees.  Carol Kaye made quite a career during that time.  An earlier post stated that engineers like the Fender because they know the instrument and can get the sound they want quickly.  Time is money in studios.  
Just because it was the only one around in the really early days doesn't mean that we have to stick with it now.  We have better.  Why not take advantage of advancements that have come along?  Why use a slide rule rather than a calculator just because by God, that's all we had in the old days and it's still good enough for me.  Better technology and people like Ron W. have given us the opportunity to play better instruments.  
However, that doesn't mean that Fenders are necessarily crap.  I guess a lot of people like the sound.  That's okay with me.  I don't think they are the best but if someone likes it, okay.  
Again, I've never owned one.  I have owned maybe a dozen basses.  Most of them had a pretty good sound.  I didn't try to use any one of them for all types of music.  
I am very pleased with my Epic.  It has, by far, the best sound of any bass I've had.  As far as I know Alembic makes the best.  But, please, let's not think that Alembic is the only instrument maker out there and ours are the only opinions that should count.
It really does not bother me that not very many people have heard of Alembic or even Olympic for that matter.  After all,  the serial numbers are only up to 14,000 or 15,000.  If they don't think they like the sound because they don't recognize the logo, it's their loss.  There are plenty of professional musicians, engineers, and producers who know what Alembic stands for.  Alembic has nothing to prove.
Respectfully,
Rich

[bsee]

Rich-
 
I played a maple-boarded '71 Jazz for a couple years.  It had a fabulous tone that was hard for most boutique basses to match, but it didn't have the versatility.  If all someone is looking for is a flatwound all-bottom sound, then there are a lot of basses that can provide that.  One thing is for sure, every Alembic I have played has been much more responsive to playing nuances than most of the basses of yesteryear.  It puts a lot of tonal control in the hands of the player, both via technique and via the settings of the filters and other controls.  That means a good player can sound better and a mediocre or poor player can sound that much worse.
 
I always wonder when I see one of these posts why it should be up to the engineer to decide what the bass should sound like?  I don't do pro recording gigs and rarely play with a soundman, but I have done sound for some sizable acts.  I have always tried to give them what they want, not force them to sound the way I want.  Can some of you session-regulars splain this one for me?