Effects loop or stereo?

[ztpi1]

Greetings,  
 
At the moment I am playing a MM Sterling into a late 70's Ampeg B25-B. I run the output of the sterling into an EB volume pedal, take the tuner out into the normal input of channel 2. I then take the output of the volume pedal into an EH stomp box that I leave on and out into the bright  input on channel 2 of the amp. This allows me to add and subtract the effect sound dynamically as I play instead of just stomping it on and off.  
 
I am in need of an upgraded rig and was considering using either the F-1X or the F-2B.
 
My question is this: Would it be better to use an F-1X, putting the effect in the effects loop with a volume pedal to control the mix, or use a stereo pan pedal and run into the two seperate channels of the F-2B?
 
I would like to have as smooth and transparent a transition between the wet/dry signals as possible.  
 
I have tried using both channels of the 'peg to do this but I get too much difference in volume when I kick in the effect. Also, the two channels do not sound the same. I get the best effect when using the two inputs of the single channel.  
 
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

[David Houck]

Hi Tom, welcome to the board.  Interesting question.  Could you use the same setup you have now but using the two inputs on the F-1X?

[ztpi1]

Hey Dave,
 
I thought about that, but it is my understanding that the  second input on the F-1X is attenuated by 6dB. I think it would be hard to balance the two signals.

[bsee]

Well, with your setup it sounds like you can go anywhere from 100% clean to 50/50, right?  Well, if you run the clean signal into the -6dB input and the effect into the 0dB input, you would have slightly more variable range than you have today.  You will be able to go from 100% clean to favoring the effect by 6dB.  You may find it hard to get exactly 50/50, but you'll want to set that by tone rather than percentages anyway.

[ztpi1]

Bob,
 
Do the signals in fact mix that way? If I run the volume pedal with the dry signal out of the tuner out to the amp and then add wet signal by opening up the pedal, does the dry signal lessen to compensate for the added wet signal, or does the wet signal simply add to what is already there? It seems like the mix is more like x/100 (wet/dry), where x goes from 0-100. With the difference between the two inputs it might be more like x/100 where x goes from 0-106 (0-160? Aren't dB's on some sort of base 10 logarithm scale?).
 
I was thinking that running into both inputs would be more additive causing a noticable change in volume when I use the effect. This is the problem that I am having with the Ampeg.  
 
A pan pedal would provide a more balanced way to control the signals, but I only have a volume pedal at the moment, not a stereo pan pedal. I would like to avoid having to buy more stuff if I can make it work with what I have.
 
What about the effects loop of the F-1X? Is it in series or parallel? I assumed the loop on the F-1X was parallel. If it is then I was wondering if putting the volume pedal in with the effect in the loop would  allow me to truly mix the signals, not just add one on top of the other.  
 
I don't think it will work with a series effects loop.  
 
The effect I am going for could be easily achieved with a stereo setup and a pan pedal, but then I wouldn't have that nifty crossover that I have ideas for as well.

[David Houck]

The following is from the F-1X description on the Alembic site.
 
The F-1X gives you a unity-gain impedance matching amplifier to feed guitar-level effects units. The effects return goes thru the tube gain stage and then to the tone controls. The signal from the tone controls is amplified and sent to the full-range output jack on the rear panel.

[crgaston]

If you plug into both inputs on an F-1X, they both become -6 dB.  If you used a stereo pan pedal and both inputs of the F-1X, then I think that would give you what you wanted, and you'd have the crossover as well.  The loop might work with a volume pedal, but I don't know for sure.

[bsee]

I didn't realize that you were looking for a new rig to get away from the volume change when you add in the effected sound.  I guess I should have read more thoroughly.  A parallel effects loop will do what you want, but you will have to turn a knob on your amp to change the tone.  You won't be able to do it from your foot pedal.  
 
Looking at my F-1X, the loop is serial.  There is no wet/dry adjustment knob.  I don't think the F-2B will help you either as there is no dynamic pan between channels.  You would still need some device to accomplish the panning or, be spinning both volume dials on the preamp to get the right levels.
 
It sounds like some kind of pan pedal or an amp/preamp with a parallel effects loop are your choices.

[ztpi1]

Charles,
 
So both inputs used together become -6dB! This is good news and makes me feel better about the F-1X. I will still need to get a stereo pan pedal though.  
 
Thanks, everyone, for your input. I'm sure you all know how it feels to search for the right tools to make the sound in your head a reality.
 
I'm going to switch over to the classified section to find an F-1X. Anybody know of one for sale?

[worldfamousandy]

Yup.  Plug 'em both in, and the input signals are the same!  It's almost like they thought about this...I'm convinced some of the world's top minds are employed by Alembic.
 
Andy Calder
www.andycalderbass.com