Author Topic: Bag End vs. Eden (Read 619 times)

David Houck · « **Reply #15 on:** October 25, 2007, 07:46:51 AM »

Keith is running an Elf system. That's the controller between the Eden preamp and the QSC power amp. So it's not quite the same as running a regular 18 with a 2x10. For me, the Elf smoothly extends the bottom end as far as needed.

Several years ago, I played some coffee shop gigs where I ran the Bag End 2x10 along with an Acme 2x10. The Acme filled out the low end nicely so that together it was a very nice sound from top to bottom. So, even if you weren't running an Elf, I would think pairing the 2x10 with an S18B-D, would give a great overall sound.

But I agree that the Bag End 2x10 is a great stand alone box.

bigredbass · « **Reply #16 on:** October 25, 2007, 10:38:36 AM »

Having been around both, I look at it this way:

EDEN's heads, cabs and combos are the best for my ears of the purpose-built bass amps, the last ones before you hear the difference and have to go to component rigs (BagEnds, separate preamps, power amps, etc.).

I don't underestimate David Norschow's ears, and some the products ( the little 112 combos and cabs, the 212 bin, the little double eight Silver-series practice amp, the WT800's) are exceptional, really leaving off where the old SWR stopped (ironic inasmuch as DN designed lots of the SWR cabs). But they're a step or two behind a full-strength BagEnd rig, not surprising for the difference in $$$$$.

J o e y

keith_h · « **Reply #17 on:** October 25, 2007, 02:04:20 PM »

Michael,
What Dave said. I run the 18's off of the integrator and the 2X10's I currently run full range. I find the 18's round out the tone and add the bass you can feel in addition to hearing. I have found them very useful for playing 5 string or fretless. I also like the limiting in the ELF unit. It works by rolling off the lower frequencies as opposed to just cutting the output. The result is a pretty natural sound when it kicks in. Like Barry when folks ask me how they sound I pretty much say they have a Hi-fi quality.

Depending on what or where I'm playing I will use one 18 and one 2X10, two 18's and one 2X10 or all four cabinets. The one channel of the PLX3002 matches perfectly with the power ratings on the 18's (at 8 and 4 ohms total impedance). For the other side I leave the gain at about 50% which seems to work well for the 2X10's (4 and 2 ohms total impedance).

Keith

rami · « **Reply #18 on:** October 26, 2007, 08:41:23 PM »

I've played EDEN for years, many times for several hour sessions REALLY, REALLY loud. Sorry Doc, but I never once experienced the Sagging you describe. I'm pretty sure that Dave Nordschow knows a little something about designing Bass amps and speaker cabinets. Until Roland came along with the big check and the free gear, even Alain Caron was a dedicated EDEN user. I definitely trust his ears, as well as the all current EDEN endorsers.
Perhaps Bag End is better, but that's still subjective. I've never yet had reason to complain about my EDEN gear - It's never let me down yet. Tight, punchy and articulate sound is something I appreciate through whatever I play.

Rami

oggydoggy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2007, 12:18:04 AM »

Rami,
Thanks for the Eden pump-up. Since my 410xlt crapped out I tried my wt-1205 through the 15xlt and 210 trace elliot, with great results during practice with a group. Makes my want to add to this rig since the 15 has a great presence to it.
-Ed

rami · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2007, 12:40:32 PM »

I think the fact that everything seems to be compared to EDEN (on many other threads as well as this one) says much about their status as a benchmark company. Don't get me wrong, I have ABSOLUTELY no brand loyalty. I have amps and speakers of other makes as well. My EDEN gear is the most pleasing to my ears so far. Great sound and totally reliable - and I've never read or heard a bad review of anything by EDEN.

Rami

lbpesq · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2007, 01:45:03 PM »

Rami:

ABSOLUTELY no brand loyalty?

And how many Alembics do you have? lol

Bill, tgo

Bradley Young · « **Reply #22 on:** October 27, 2007, 04:21:31 PM »

Rami-

To your point about Edens not having bad reviews: haven't heard any about Bag End, either.

For what it's worth, Eden doesn't do it for me. Bag End definitely does.

Bradley

rami · « **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2007, 05:10:47 PM »

I only said that my EDEN gear is the most pleasing to my ears so far. I never meant to imply that one is better than another. Perhaps my opinion may change. Which major artist uses Bag End?

Hey Bill, I definitely LOVE my Alembics, but like many Bassists, I cut my teeth on Fenders and I still love them. I also play Gibsons, G&L's, Musicman's, Lado's, Carvin's...........

Rami

olieoliver · « **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2007, 05:38:21 PM »

I have an Eden Metro 2x10 combo Rami and I love the way it sounds. It's in need of some minor repairs but I've had it for some time (I bought it when they first came out) and have played the heck out of it.
That being said, my favorite is still my SWR 750 head thru a SWR 2x10 and a SWr 1x15 cab, both with horns and adjustable crossovers. My SWR is a pre Fender though.

I've never played thru Bag End or Epifani though so I can't e;aborate on them.

But the Edens I've used arre SMOKIN' .

Olie

lowlife · « **Reply #25 on:** October 27, 2007, 05:49:57 PM »

I'm not and Eden endorser, but I've sure got a lot of their gear; single 10 combo, Metro, a pair of 2x10's and a 15 powered by various Eden heads.
Never had the chance to try Bag End or Epifani either. But of those brands that I have tried, Eden has a particular sonic signature that is the most pleasing to my ears.

Don't know about the sagging either. I've played some of my Eden combinations for many hours on end (realy loud), and I've never noticed a difference. My Metro has just celebrated it's 10th birthday, and it's still thumpin' away,

Ellery (Lowlife)

bsee · « **Reply #26 on:** October 28, 2007, 08:37:07 AM »

I see Eden and SWR (at least in the old days) as peer leaders of large-volume manufacturers of hybrid amps and an assortment of gigging cabs. Their immense volume came as a result of quality construction, pleasing tone, and versatility. It makes sense to use them in comparisons because almost everyone has access to them to compare against.

You wouldn't generally use Alembic basses as something to compare others to in spite of their quality simply because there aren't enough of them out there. Instead, people make comparisons to various Fender or Ibanez models. Same thing with Eden.

I think you heard a questionable review of Eden a few posts ago with regard to their speaker construction. I can say that I also had a bad experience with them when the coil in a metro combo came free and bounced around inside the head destroying everything. It did that as I was driving it home from the store for the first time, so it went right back and I settled for the SWR Super Redhead. The Eden was a bit rounder in tone, but I couldn't afford to show up at a gig with a dead amp.

To me, SWR and Eden are like Fender (guess it was an easy acquisition). They produce good stuff in large volumes that gets the job done. The builds aren't done with as much care as most of the boutique builders would use, but the recipe is such that they should all sound pretty much the same. They're very good, but probably not the best.

About the only real advice I can give on this thread is that, if I lived in the LA area, I would have access to try a bunch of cabs. I wouldn't be going purely on the recommendations of this board nor would I be limited to a couple name brands. Jorg Schroeder operates out of that area and there are plenty of shops that will carry a wide variety of high quality gear. Bag End is great stuff, but I wouldn't pick Eden unless I was limited in selection or by budget.

-bob

oggydoggy · « **Reply #27 on:** October 28, 2007, 09:47:25 AM »

The last thing I was intending to start was a brand war. Eden and Older Trace(pre-gibson) cabinets cut the best for me thus far. Bsee i am interested in Schroeder cabs you are the only witness i have to them, any details? I am searching for different POV's. Being a working musician in LA is busy work, Granted I have many different choices, I would like to have some advice from people I can trust, before I travel taking time to try out several rigs on my way to sonic enlightenment. I wish speaker choice was as easy as bass choice(trusty old Series).....Have I thanked Alembic lately?

Bradley Young · « **Reply #28 on:** October 28, 2007, 09:55:21 AM »

Rami-

I wasn't trying to slight Eden, but the sound doesn't work for me. As for artists:

http://www.bagend.com/endorser.htm

Names like Herbie Hancock, Al DiMeola, Chick Corea, Prince, ...

You'll also notice Bradley Young on the list, but it ain't me-- I suspect it's the pianist Bradley Young from Chicago.

Also, they do have a few installations:

http://www.bagend.com/bagend/installations.htm

I know it's been said, but the mothership is Bag End from stem to stern. That would be a fairly ringing endorsement.

Again, I'm not trying to disrespect Eden, just say that Bag End does have a good reputation, and they do sound great. My opinion is: all that PA work creates a great hi-fi bass rig.

Bradley

bsee · « **Reply #29 on:** October 28, 2007, 01:46:43 PM »

As far as Schroeder goes, they are very efficient, well built, and can handle a ton of power. I have two of them. A 1212R regular model with two 12s in it that has a round warm character like an old Ampeg B-15. It's a compact cab that easily fits in the back seat of any car and weighs in +/- 50 lbs. My newer, and current gigging cab, is a 21012L Light cab. This one has two 10s facing forward and a 12 mounted at an angle. It's about the size of most companies' 2x12 cabs and, with the neo magnets, still weighs in just over 50 lbs. The neo speakers are a little more versatile, imposing less natural character on your sound.

Either cab is plenty of sound for the bar gigs I play. I would recommend the 1212R for a blues/rock gig, and the 21012L for just about anything.

Also, Jorg is passionate about these cabs and will support you very well if you chose to go that way.