Author Topic: Your input requested on User names & Full names - proposed change to board  (Read 1549 times)

bob

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(welcome James - ctjim - we're sort of involved here at the moment, as you can see, but mustn't forget our manners. and your joining in this context was a good reminder that while i might have been able to guess at Jim, taking that detour to look at your profile was the only way to figure out that you seem to prefer James.)
 
I hope I don't sound like I'm arguing with you, Roger - we have been asked to express and discuss our views, to help in making the decision, and that's all I'm doing.
 
This truck is not broken - do not fix it.
 
Well, the way I read it, the suggested change got something on the order of 50 responses in as many hours - far exceeding even the occasional frenzies to buy those stunning little wooden boxes - and unless I missed something, yours is the lone dissenting vote so far.
 
While 'broken' may be a bit extreme, I'm in the camp that hangs out here partly because it is by far the most friendly and supportive forum I've ever encountered on the web - not just for Alembic products, but in some far more personal ways.
 
Like others above, I like the personal touch, and since I happen to be lousy with names, it bothers me when the best I can do without a separate lookup is to use SoM for son_of_magni, as an example. With the new server, it's not as prohibitive as it was before, but it's still quite a nuisance.
 
Despite what you stated in your first post here (and later corrected), I've been well aware the spiders/bots/crawlers will click the links, and potentially find stuff like our names, email addresses, current bands, ages, sex (what?), etc.
 
I truly am a bit of a privacy freak, so I thought long and hard about whether to suppress my email address (using the options that Mica describes), and decided that for the sake of this group, and the potential contacts it might entail, it was worth the risk to expose it. To my knowledge - and I had recently switched email addresses - I'm not getting spammed as a result of registering here. And I've made some friends, that I would not have otherwise.
 
Not to say there is no risk. But you can hide your email (just a friendly reminder - as of right now, you have not yet done so!), and disguise your name as you please (entirely in jest, might I suggest 'Roger ImNotParanoidSpidersReallyAreChasingMe, Esq.'?)
 
Even if you prefer to think of this as going back (not my view), as Mica points out, it would be to the state we were in at the time you registered.
 
Given all that, methinks thou doth protest too much. Probably mangled the quote, but you get the point?
-Bob
 
(edited to add the following)
 
I really do worry about this stuff - recently a friend wanted to take some photos in my home, and I insisted that he not, because I happen to have some expensive hi fi gear and such, and had a break-in attempt many years back (though they wouldn't have got much at the time). I also keep some of my blinds closed at all times for similar reasons - and you can choose to hide or expose here whatever is right for you, even under the proposed change.
 
If I understand how this works, changing the display to show full names rather than user names would only affect future posts - unless the site was completely rebuilt, as it was with the recent server migration. In that case, it seems to me it would pick up your current profile settings, and so also not put you at further risk.
 
(Message edited by bob on May 28, 2005)

senmen

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Spyders?
 
I LOVE SPYDERS!   (only the Alembic ones of course)
 
Oliver
(Spyderman)

rogertvr

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The point I'm trying to make is that if spiders are already trawling the Alembic Club and clicking on the ID links, as my name is there and my e-mail address is there, shouldn't I be getting fifteen shed-loads of junk e-mail to that address every day?  I get none.  So to my mind, that smacks of the fact that whatever information is collected by those spiders from the profile pop-up page - it's either not being used or not being collected at all.  For this reason, I would rather not have the ID link and proper name sat together in the thread.  I use that ID for lots of other things, anonymously, and putting them together in here strikes me as a backward move.
 
Now, I'd rather not part company with you nice folks in here, so if the change goes ahead, I'll butcher my profile so that there's next to no info in it. Which I also consider to be a backward step and if a lot a people choose to do that - that change isn't going to meet its intended aim is it?
 
Regarding Mica's comment I appreciate if emails are publicized that they are in full context - I didn't do this because I wasn't sure if you wanted that part to become common knowledge yet. So I omitted it as I thought that was the best thing to do. Rest assured that in future, I'll post the entire contents.

bsee

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Actually, Roger, proper Net etiquette says that you never post a private email message from another party without their prior consent.  Of course, that's only etiquette, people do that sort of thing on a regular basis.
 
Relative to the proposed change, we're looking for a convenient way for people to know how to address reply messages, right?  I would think that including a first name only would be satisfactory to accomplish what is desired.  I don't believe that last name is required for this.  Of course, we don't currently have a profile field for this and I don't know the feature set of this board software to know if that is possible.
 
I would say that looking for a first name is one reason that I look at profiles, but it is almost as common for me to look for a location.  
 
As I said earlier, though, all the information is already available to the public by looking at a user's profile.  Moving it to another screen, especially since you're not planning on bringing the email address forward, should be no greater privacy/security issue for anyone.
 
-Bob

lbpesq

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I'm no programmer (except with the TV remote control), so I know nothing from spiders.  But I am a lawyer and therefore am quite familiar with compromise!  So howzabout this: What if the left column showed the ID and first name only.  Wouldn't that allow for the more personal touch we appear to almost universally favor, while still addressing Roger's arachnophobia?
 
Bill, tgo

lbpesq

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Bob:
 
I was composing the above while you were posting your identical first name suggestion.  Either great or twisted minds think alike!  nyuk, nyuk.
 
Bill, tgo

rogertvr

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I'd be quite happy with just the first name to be shown.  Well - mine already is anyway!
 
To address Bob's comment about netiquette - I don't usually post private e-mails but it was the easiest way I could think of to try and help get my point across. I wasn't doing it to try and get one over on Mica, so my apologies for any confusion / offence etc etc.

David Houck

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Well, for the last two days I have been quite unexpectedly and unavoidably out of touch.  Looks like I missed some excitement!  
 
I don't know the answer to the first-name-only suggestion as I don't have access to that part of the program.  However, what information that I have looked at suggests that the Full Name can't be split to separate lines.
 
When I was reading through the messages, I was disheartened to see that Roger felt he may have to leave the group.  Later, however, I was glad to see him post I'd rather not part company with you nice folks in here, so if the change goes ahead, I'll butcher my profile so that there's next to no info in it.
 
So, if, as I expect, the first name only suggestion is not doable, then here is my suggestion.
 
As far as access to profile information is concerned, the only difference between the proposed change and the current situation is that the information the user has entered in the Full Name box in the profile will be shown next to posted messages.  Thus no one should have to butcher their profiles.  Rather, if you still want your full name to show in the profile and not next to the message, then just enter your first name, or anything else you wish, in the Full Name box; then at the bottom of the Additional Personal Information section create a new Category Title and call it something like Real Full Name and enter your full name there.  That way your full name is still shown in your profile but not next to your messages.
 
I think Roger's concerns are understandable; and unless I've missed something, I think and hope that this solution addresses those concerns.

rogertvr

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I'm with Dave here - the voice of reason has spoken!  Nice one Dave!

Bradley Young

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My 2 cents.
 
First, a bit of background.
 
I've been developing software for 11 or 12 years (and I'm not counting time on the Apple II).  I have written spiders, many of them.  I have a background in web development (and other types of development, too!).  I just want you to know that I do have some background technically.
 
Roger, I'd like to re-state your objections (just so we're all on the same page); I'd be happy for you to correct this if I've mis-interpreted things.
 
1) Having your full name accessable to Web Spiders  isn't good.
2) Having your email address harvested by address-harvesters is bad.
 
I'm not going to disagree with you on #2, and there are some additional methods that could be applied that are pretty good at nuking the spam-harvesters' ability to decipher the email while leaving it perfectly usable from a human standpoint.  Let me know if you're interested, Mica, and I can point you to some stuff and discuss approaches.
 
However, issue #2 is not changed *at all* with regards to the full name change, and as such, does not seem germane to the discussion.  Unless I've missed something, of course (likely!).
 
Now, with regards to #1, I'd appreciate some clarification.  You did refer to spam quite a bit in your postings, might I infer that you're concerned that your full name might invite spam?
 
Are you concerned about web search engines, or is your caution limited to spam?
 
Brad

rogertvr

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I'm going to clarify what I've been trying to put across as it seems that I'm not making myself clear.
 
Incidentally, my background is software development too, I've been doing it for 22 years on various different platforms, with various different languages, for countless and varied applications.
 
Mica stated that the spiders come along, click on all the links in the website, Club included. My e-mail address is shown in my profile and is plain for all to see - but yet I receive absolutely no spam to that e-mail address. So my argument is that, even though Username, Full Name, e-mail address and a whole raft of other information is available on the profile, it's either not being used by the spiders, or it's simply not being collected.  We all know that a published e-mail address is an open invitation for spam and it doesn't take long for it to start arriving either!
 
Now, whilst Username and Full Name are shown on the profile, I don't see the point of putting Full Name in the thread under the Username.  I use the RogerTVR username anonymously in all sorts of places, as I'm sure other people in this Club may do with their own Usernames. I object to having RogerTVR and my full real name shown with it in every posting I make. I realise that this proposed change will not be actioned retrospectively and will only apply to future postings (if it is implemented).
 
Adding the Full Name in that way also means that if I wanted to remove my Full Name from my profile, it would still show in the postings that I had made to that point. So I lose control over what I want public and what I want kept private.
 
So - spam is not my concern - I am using it to demonstrate the point that I don't think the information on the profile screen is being used and/or collected.  There are no guarantees that that would be the case if the Full Name was shown under the Username in postings, thus making the association between Username and Full Name more easy to determine. Which would make the spiders job easier and I don't see the point of giving them an easier ride.
 
As I stated above, I'm more than happy with Dave's suggestion for first name to be shown as that would meet the aim of making things more friendly in here (if more friendly is the right phrase to use).
 
I hope this clarifies my stance!
 
Rog

kmh364

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I'm OK with it. It'll be nice to know who we're corresponding with without having to look up the profile first. Sign me up.
 
Cheers,
 
Kevin

adriaan

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The underlying problem why we're dicussing this at all, as far as I can see, is that the user names for a lot of members are not the real first name by which they would like to be called. Some of the early members (like myself) had the luxury of finding their first name still available as a user name, but I admit to losing track of the number of Pauls within the first few weeks of the club.
 
So why not print the user name (must be unique) along with a nick name of your own choice? I can't see any privacy concerns with that - but then I'm only a database developer with precious little experience in web programming.

Bradley Young

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Roger,
 
Thanks for clarifying things.
 
If you'll humour me again, I'd like to re-state what I think the crux of your concern is:
 
Putting the full name will make you less anonymous on web search engines.
 
Is that correct?
 
Seemingly, google isn't currently crawling (clicking) the user profile links, but other search engines are (i.e. msn does, definitely-- do a search for  +site:alembic.com (quotes mine), and you'll see that this information is already public).
 
Also, using spam as an indicator that the user profile is being read isn't the best possible test (the best test is, as Mica already stated, looking at the logs (the user-agent string is often configured to look like a regular browser, but the frequency and deliberateness of the links give them away).); most spammers use custom-crafted crawlers that are designed specifically to find e-mail addresses, and don't interface with the search engines (at least to gather addresses).  No, that is not a run-on sentence.
 
But anyhow, this information is already public (i.e. not anonymous), and this will not be substantially different after the change.
 
However, I can understand your concern (as this will definitely create more hits on your name in the search engines, and this may be a concern.  I'd suggest that you simply change your Full Name field to reflect your first name only (or nothing at all, if you wish!).
 
Just trying to do my part to allay your concerns; I hope it helps (somewhat, anyways!).
 
Brad

rogertvr

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Brad,
 
Yep - basically, the crux of my concern is that putting the name and the username together in posts means that there will be far more instances of it than just the one that exists at present (in the profile screen).
 
I understand what you're saying about changing the Full Name field to contain something other than my full name, but I consider that to be a backward step.
 
I'm surprised that the Full Name field isn't split to be perfectly honest - having them lumped together isn't really a good bit of software design.  If they were split (this has already been mentioned), then first name could be shown in the threads and the profile could contain the information as it is at present.
 
I think that is the best solution.
 
Rog