Bass rejected from band leaders

[Mlazarus]

Ampegs are great amps.

[Mlazarus]

Everybody has different taste, I guess. We also have to keep in mind; everyone hears frequencies different. I always do very well on hearing booth test. That means I hear most of the pitch's faint sounds. My readings are always 5 and 0 levels. Even in the minus. I used to hear everything at 0! A doctor once said, "You can hear the grass grow!" Some people can't hear high pitches. So, they have musicians compensate for their hearing loss without admitting it. They probably don't even know they have hearing and frequency problems. Those people make lousy Soundboard techs! lol.

[garyhead]

When I was in a band a couple Decades ago.....the band leader kept telling me less Bass....more mid-range & treble!  We recorded the album.  All the folkies in the band (objected to electric bass) thought it was fine.  The leaders mentors (after listening to the master tracks) asked him why he hated the bass player so much?  The guy (leader) had some hearing issues and ignored the engineer & producer.  I left the group as the leader wasn't open to other opinions. 

[gtrguy]

I wish I couldn't hear my girlfriends complaining about me... (insert smiley Emoji thingy here) Miazarus it sounds like you have a good attitude.

[Mlazarus]

Gtrguy, I'm a little wiser with age. Before i would think they are either jealous or hate me. That is always a factor, but a lot of times we are dealing with people's physical and sometimes mental short comings. Then there is the ego and "my way or the highway" type personalities. It's not just the NOTES and Sounds that make a good group, it's the people you surround yourself with. Afterall, Music and performing is one of the ultimate social gatherings. All variables are involved. Find Peace and Happiness!

[JimmyJ]

OK, I'll jump in too.

I'm one of those guys who believes the sound is 90% in the hands of the player and I've seen many examples of this throughout my career.  The aforementioned Louis Johnson reference is a good one.  I believe he'd ONLY sound like Louis Johnson on whatever he picked up.

I also say to people who ask me about my basses that they may not be everybody's cup of tea.  But they are my entire tea kettle because they're the only basses I own.  Almost anybody who calls me these days already knows what kind of noise I make so I'm unlikely to get any flak about the basses I show up with.

I've been lucky to be able to fit my particular racket into a wide variety of music.  But there were a couple occasions where I was asked to play something else.  And being a hired studio guy in those situations I said "sure, I'll play whatever you've got there".  So it was a classic Hofner Beatle bass one time, a Danelectro Longhorn on something else, and several songs on a rented Fender P for another producer.  But you know what?  In my opinion it all still just sounded like me!   

So Michael, I think these bandleaders are just giving you s#it for no good reason.  If they're nice about it and you like them then it's up to you how to respond.  You might ask if they've also told the drummer to only bring the Paiste cymbals and Ludwig drums?  Sounds kinda like a power trip to me, in my opinion.

Jimmy J

[lbpesq]

It seems this is a bit unique to bassists.  I've heard similar stories numerous times over the years, usually with a non-bassist insisting on a Fender.  Yet, as Jimmy alludes to, it is a far rarer occurrence with other instruments.  I've never shown up at an audition with a Strat and been asked to play a Les Paul instead.

Bill, tgo

[edwardofhuncote]

Threads like these make me realize how lucky I was to play with guys and girls who really appreciated me for who I was and what I brought to the music, and couldn't have cared less what instrument I happened to be playing, or what nuance in tone I happened to be producing at some gig. The point was, I was their bass player. The Anchorman. I was on time, dressed to play, sober, serious, and I held the damn thing together. They could count on it if I was on the job. That was worth something I think.

So I'm trying to figure up how I would balance the ratio between how much static I'd be apt to take from a bandleader about what bass I played versus how much I stood to make on the gig. Hope I never have to, if I ever do get to play again. The money would have to be obscene to leave my choice of bass backstage in favor of someone elses. I prefer to keep my own counsel on those issues. I don't go around telling guitar players what axe to swing, or singers what to gargle before downbeat either. I just do my job, and help them do theirs.

Lemesee Boss... I'm tryin' to see this your way, but I can't seem to get my head that far up my... say, how do know what my bass sounds like witchyo head up in there anyway?!

(save it for the exit interview...)

[garyhead]

This thread has dredged up some past memories I’d forgotten!
The Greek / Balkan band I was in…was there 6 Years!  Played music festivals, weddings, radio shows, dance halls in the Seattle area. Now that I think about it….all was fine until the leader & drummer got new wives…who were anti-electric instrument players. I also supplied the PA so the singers (6-8) could be heard over the 12 instruments babbling about.  The guys caved to their SO’s and drove all electricity out of the band. With the second band, an electric Celtic affair…..yes, along with electric fiddle AND electric Bagpipes! We were chugging along with music festivals, weddings & recordings everything was chugging along….until a bass player showed up and started dating the guitar player. He was 27 and this was his First girlfriend!  Needless to say my days were numbered. She eventually pushed out the fiddle player and drummer….the band collapsed. The guitar player (leader) now is a personal trainer.  Being in a band is like being married to 4 or 5 people at once! I have Many brands of basses but Alembic is my voice!

[rv_bass]

I was asked that once.  I said no.  End of conversation. 

[Mlazarus]

I read you Jimmy J. In a sense that when you sound like you or Louis Johnson sounds like him, It's the style one has in playing. Jaco's style was fast, clean and tight Pizzicato. He played everything on his Jazz bass with Pbass neck. He played over the bridge pickups. So, he established his sound to complement his style, BUT it was also the sound of the Fender. If he played on a Music man, his style wouldn't change but the Timbre would sound like the Music Man. In my case, I believe this band leader wants only pbass. Because, when i played a solo popping style on the p bass, he said "YEAH!" but then the same song with the Alembic, the sound was significantly different in Timbre, yet i never changed my technique style of playing. I think he just loves the pbass sound. I love it too, but I want time with my best girl-Series 1 LOL.

A few days later, i attempted a compromise; to play the series 1 on the songs that were finger playing only and use the pbass for the two songs he wants for the popping solos. As he really seems to like the sound of the Fender, but he won't admit it. Tell me! I'll adjust and give you what you want. Like a studio musician like you and the others.

[Mlazarus]

Garyhead,

"I have Many brands of basses, but Alembic is my voice!"............YES, I like that. We all have many brands to suit the occasion and era of music, but I have my favorite overall bass. That's my Alembic.

[JimmyJ]

A bit more on this...  Sorry for these long posts...

I'm the first to admit that my sound palette is limited.  I have great respect for those guys who can make a lot of different bass sounds but that's just never been me.  I'm a one-trick pony and only know how to slightly vary the tones that I make.  For instance, I know nothing about pedals or even amp tones - always just been a DI guy.  I never even got into slapping and popping - I left that to the specialists.

And I understand that what I do might not work for everybody in every situation.  (Mostly talking about recording as that's the bulk of my experience). Thus my comment about Alembic basses not being everybody's cup of tea. The sound these instruments make is LARGE.  I find it very musical, natural, and almost like an acoustic instrument.  But it's more like a piano than a "standard" electric bass (to my ear).  The sound a Fender bass makes is by comparison small.  The entire frequency range of a P-bass might not go as low as the kick drum and might not go as high as the guitars.  But some folks want the bass to only sit in that limited frequency range so they can crank it up and it doesn't interfere with any other instruments.  I acknowledge this and respect that approach, but then I may not be the right guy for that situation.  All good though, to each their own.

That said, since our basses have such a big sound they can be EQ'd to do literally anything.  Once I've recorded a part for somebody I'm happy to turn it over to them to work their magic on it and make it fit into their track as they see fit.  Sometimes the results might make me shake my head (nasty tone compressed to death... is that still me?) but generally my experience has been good and I've made friends with a lot of great recording engineers.

Now a bit of an aside.  Some people are much MUCH more attuned to the sound of particular guitars or basses.  I recently got to watch Jackson Browne and his great band play several shows and the guitar trunk on stage right had 13 guitars in it.  Those were all for Jackson.  On stage left were Greg Leisz's 10 instruments and 12 more for Val McCallum.  That's 32 different guitars.  Needless to say, the two guitar techs were tuning non-stop!  But they wanted very specific instruments for specific songs.  As a listener, I gotta say, I don't think I could hear the difference.  But it was important for them so ... whatever.

Again, it depends entirely on the situation but I think it's generally not nice to tell a musician they can't play the instrument of their choice...

Michael, I kinda think Jaco, like Louis J, would sound like Jaco on any instrument he picked up.  He was known to sit in wherever he showed up and play whatever he could wrench out of the bass player's hands.  It really didn't matter, there was no doubt who was playing bass. 

My fretless bass is the biggest variation I have to offer sound wise.  But I have had bassists I know - who should know better - ask if I was playing fretless on a specific track which I was not. So I guess what seems like a hugely different sound to me ... still just sounds like me.

Jimmy J

[Mlazarus]

Jimmy, i never recorded in a studio. I fantasized about it when i was 18-19. I know one has to live in locations where recording studios are. Unless you travel. My main recording interest would have been to record in the 70s and 80s when R n B and pop used musicians more. Now the R n B and pop music is all keyboard and electronics, sampling. Simple one chord riffs. Very basic bass lines. It seems Country and Rock maintain the tradition of using Bass players today.

You must currently and have had such a fortunate experience to be a studio musician. I did one gingle in a very small studio once. It was in Germany. I was stationed there in an Army band in the 90s. My friend(German) owned a graphic arts studio in which they would use musicians to record. It was fun. I was allowed to make up my own bassline for a little gingle for, what ever it was for. I dont know, it could have been for a commercial or online or radio. I dont remember. That was the only time i recorded. I, of course recorded with my band. We recorded with our own studio equipment. Then there were times, actually a few years ago, in a reserve Army band, where we recorded a few songs. I did well. I had my sheet music to read, you know you look down at your notes, yet with peripheral vision watch the conductor. So i am trained to play any style under a conducter in a studio setting, but, BUT. i would have realy enjoyed what you do in a civilian studio on a regular bases. I like recording. I used to sit in my room recording on my old Tascam Porta 1 4 track. Lol. As for sound. I typically don't get complaints either, but the knit pickers are out there.

[jazzyvee]

I haven;'t done a lot of bass studio sessions but i did have a flurry of them for a period during the covid lockdown time and had some issues regarding tone from a couple of producers. The main problem was that they were not used to hearing or working with an alembic bass in the studio so even though i was telling them they could just eq the bass to what they wanted, they were not happy. In the end I just recorded my bass through the rack I use for gigging which was an F-1x and F-2B and they were happy. Sometimes people don't know what they want until they hear something they don't like.
I guess you could always get an alembic with p-style pickups and some flats.