Playing volumes

[Mlazarus]

So, for years i have been maxing the volume on my basses and adjusting the amp levels. I always felt maxing the bass will help use
the pickups to the fullest capacity. How do some of you set your volumes for your alembic, specifically with the series models? is it
best to max the amp for instance, then peel back on the bass volume knobs? What do you do?

[pauldo]

I am curious also.

I had a producer who wanted my bass (when recording) turned up fully.  On stage typically set at 3/4 full on the bass and amp level adjusted accordingly.  The extra 1/4 could be used for dramatic volume swells or for keeping up with band mates.  It has been many years, but there were times when I had to bump up the amp on stage to keep up with others.

Paul (louder isn’t always better… #callmeold )

[jazzyvee]

Well from what i have read here a number of times from Jimmy Johnson, the sound quality from these basses is the same regardless of the volume setting on your bass.
How  i generally run my setup is with my power amp at or close to max then bring my bass volume up to what is needed for the gig. That seems to give me the cleanest sound through my alembic based rack system. Sometimes if the Di out is too low or high for the sound guy, i will get the right output using the bass and preamp then control my stage volume via my power amp.  If i use a regular bass head, mesa, ampeg etc.  Turning the master volume on full or input gain too high just gives me more hiss and an edgy soond so in this instance i tend to have to balance bass volume plus input gain on my preamp and the master volumes on my amp to get the best sound.

[JimmyJ]

I do exactly what Paul described - I set my master volume at around 80% so there is some headroom "for dramatic volume swells" or in case I need to step out for a solo passage or something.  I also have a mark about 10db lower in case I'm in a studio where my output is too hot for the board's input.  I used to have these two spots on the master volume control marked with tape but when I had the bass refinished many years ago I took the opportunity to have  them inlayed.   

I also think Jazzyvee is right in that power amps or "master" volume controls on an amp head want to be run at, or close to, wide open.  I think that's the way to get the fullest tone from that last section of the chain.  Unless you're in a situation where the idle hiss is too loud and then you need to trim it a bit.  Otherwise the preamp gain would be my choice to control the overall volume.  Again, we're talking about going for a clean sound - if you purposely want to overdrive the poweramp input you can trim down the output and crank the preamp gain...  Etc...

As we've been saying, one of the amazing features of Alembic Series instruments is that the output level does not effect the overall tone like it does on a passive bass.  The producer asking you to turn the bass all the way up was assuming that would give them the widest sound.  And if it was a Fender P he'd be right. But he didn't know our little magic trick.

Jimmy J

[gtrguy]

If you are playing a tube amp, running the master full up will wear out the power section tubes a lot faster. It's also going to be more noisy. I think the old tube 'master volume amps' (Fender, etc) were first designed to get some nice guitar overdrive back in the day at lower volume, but they aren't as highly regarded now. But then of course I am really old school.

I am also lazy, so I just gig my bass with the bass volume full up. If I had a rare solo I dial in a little more treble and mid on the bass pickup or tone selector to make it cut through a bit more.

[rv_bass]

Jimmy,

I wonder if could have the master volume notched for the two settings so you don’t have to look down and try to line up the knob arrow with the body marker?  I.e. adjust by feel.

[Mlazarus]

I maxed the amp volume and set the gain at 50% and set the pickups to match the sound of the music playing from my speakers connected to my computer (Playing along with YouTube. The result was less distortion and hum from the Amp. quieter.


When i did the opposite: maxed the bass pickups and turned up the gain and volume on the amp, there was significant levels of hum and distortion. This tell me these series 1 pickups are very powerful.

[adriaan]

I maxed the amp volume and set the gain at 50% and set the pickups to match the sound of the music playing from my speakers connected to my computer (Playing along with YouTube. The result was less distortion and hum from the Amp. quieter.

When i did the opposite: maxed the bass pickups and turned up the gain and volume on the amp, there was significant levels of hum and distortion. This tell me these series 1 pickups are very powerful.

That's exactly what was suggested on the other thread. Set the preamp gains on the back of the bass where they need to be for the rest of your rig, that way you can use the full range of the volume pots. The Series electronics are very powerful even at lower gain levels.

[mica]

I wonder if could have the master volume notched for the two settings so you don’t have to look down and try to line up the knob arrow with the body marker?  I.e. adjust by feel.

It's possible to modify the pot for this (ala detent), but it's not very practical. But you can fashion various types of mechanical clues to hide under the skirt of the knob that could accomplish the same.

Just be aware what when you have something like this, you lose access to the settings adjacent to the mechanical indicator (whether it's building into to pot or by another mechanism). This is tru for regular pan pots with a center detent as well.

[Songdog]

If you are playing a tube amp, running the master full up will wear out the power section tubes a lot faster.

I think this is true only to the extent that you push the power section into saturation (distortion). Depending on the amp and the situation that might be a bit too loud! If you're playing softly, it doesn't matter where you've turned down; leaving the master up while turning down the bass output and the preamp gain shouldn't hurt the output tubes.

It's also going to be more noisy.

That's an important point. Turning up the master volume turns up all the noise and hum from the preamp.

When i did the opposite: maxed the bass pickups and turned up the gain and volume on the amp, there was significant levels of hum and distortion. This tell me these series 1 pickups are very powerful.

I don't think I've ever seen a spec for the maximum output level from an Alembic with its volume all the way up, and I haven't tried my new (to me) bass through enough different amps yet to get a good sense of this. I wouldn't be surprised if it could put out a high enough signal to drive the input of most bass amps into distortion. Depending on the amp, this could sound awful (crappy transistor circuit) to pretty good (tube preamp with lots of headroom, or well-designed solid state).

[Mlazarus]

Good comment Songdog,

"I wouldn't be surprised if it could put out a high enough signal to drive the input of most bass amps into distortion. Depending on the amp, this could sound awful"


It could depend on the amp. I'm using the "Little Mark" Markbass blackline 15-inch 250 watt. It's a powerful little cube, but I need to test the 82 Series 1 on a much larger rigg. Also, playing thru a Tech 21 Sans Amp "stomp box makes a huge difference.

[JimmyJ]

Regarding those master volume control marks vs indents; My "normal" setting is at the upper mark so in the studio or with my live rig I usually start there.  But I run the preamps quite hot and drive straight through a REDDI which is also set pretty hot. For that reason I warn the engineer of the high level and offer to trim it down if needed.  If it's too much for whatever pre they want to use, I'll either trim down the REDDI or the bass itself.  I like what the REDDI is doing when I hit its input pretty hard so that's my usual approach.

For recording at home I use no other pre.  It's bass >> REDDI >> Burl Audio B2 A/D converter >> AES to Avid Omni >> Computer.  I still like how this chain sounds so I'm sticking with it!

That lower mark on my master volume sends a more "normal" level through the REDDI to a studio's mixing board.  But for me the marks are simply visual references so I can get back to the exact level I've been sending in case I bump it or need to do a "swell" or something.  If it were an indent it would be more difficult to do a smooth volume swell.

Regarding output levels; as I've said elsewhere, our Series preamps are capable of directly driving power amps with no additional preamps in the signal chain.  I'll qualify that by saying "almost" because I believe they are just shy of what would be considered a full line level signal.  But that gives you an idea of the actual output level and how it can be set to be MUCH more than a standard passive instrument.

Jimmy J

[jazzyvee]

Just to confirm I have plugged my series bass via the DS-5 into the input of my power amp not too long ago when I was trying to narrow down where I was getting a large cracking sound from my rig. And yes the bass was able to drive the power amp and it sounded pretty much like it was going through my F-1X setting just a bit quieter.
It's good to know in case like me you have found yourself with a venue provided bass rig that is not clean enough. You may just find plugging into the power amp/return socket will get you a cleaner sound on stage. I have not done this live but I have in a couple of rehearsal rooms.

[gtrguy]

Tubes are like cars and running them up high all the time is like cruising around town in 1st gear at 5500 rpm.