Entire rig blew up...

[pauldo]

My 2 cents.
I had a Sunn amp that I was unknowingly driving the wrong (mismatched) impedance into a cabinet.  The rig worked for quite sometime until we had an outdoor show with no PA, so I pushed it hard and killed the output transformer.

[glocke]

Bummer!   As the Billy Crystal character on SNL used to say, "I hate when that happens".   As for the cab, why not just repair/replace the speakers?

Bill, tgo

Oh they'll get repaired, but its probably about a 2-3 week turn around time, and I need a cabinet next week.

But even more to the point I've been thinking of trying a new cabinet for awhile, and the lightweight neo cab were at the top of the list due to their weight (threw my back out a few weeks back during load in of the eden 2x12), followed by a fearless that is made locally to me, but those are still 70 lbs.

Hopefully the Berg will live up to the hype. 

[Glynn]

I have two Bergantino HD112 cabs and also a Barefaced One10.  You won't be disappointed with either of these companies.  Top of the ladder stuff.
Glynn

[cozmik_cowboy]

Oh they'll get repaired, but its probably about a 2-3 week turn around time, and I need a cabinet next week.

But even more to the point I've been thinking of trying a new cabinet for awhile, and the lightweight neo cab were at the top of the list due to their weight (threw my back out a few weeks back during load in of the eden 2x12), followed by a fearless that is made locally to me, but those are still 70 lbs.

Hopefully the Berg will live up to the hype. 

If it's great sound with light weight you're looking for, may I point you at the fEARful 15/6/1?  I heard Edwin play through one (plus a 12/6/1) and was well and truly blown away.


Peter

[edwin]

Amplifiers can melt down and if the protection circuits aren't adequate, they will take down speakers. Impossible to tell what happened here, but it could be any number of things. I had an Eden back in the day that was really unreliable and it took out a cabinet. The local techs couldn't figure out what was wrong and eventually Eden just replaced it.


As far the 10 inch speaker thing goes, I would agree except that my MAS 210 Flex is really an exception. It's much more solid than any 15" based rig I've played. But, it came with a price tag that matched. I hear the new Bodai line is as good or better. I was completely skeptical but now I'm sold. Everyone who has played through my rig concurs, including Pete Sears, Bill Laymon, and other users of classic rigs.

http://www.masoundworks.com

[glocke]

Amplifiers can melt down and if the protection circuits aren't adequate, they will take down speakers. Impossible to tell what happened here, but it could be any number of things. I had an Eden back in the day that was really unreliable and it took out a cabinet. The local techs couldn't figure out what was wrong and eventually Eden just replaced it.


As far the 10 inch speaker thing goes, I would agree except that my MAS 210 Flex is really an exception. It's much more solid than any 15" based rig I've played. But, it came with a price tag that matched. I hear the new Bodai line is as good or better. I was completely skeptical but now I'm sold. Everyone who has played through my rig concurs, including Pete Sears, Bill Laymon, and other users of classic rigs.

http://www.masoundworks.com

Well, if my local techs can't figure it out I guess I'll be screwed...My Eden head is long out of warranty. 

and...

another cabinet company..wow..So many choices these days it's crazy.  Sadly though the only way for me to get to hear any of these is to buy and try..and sell if I don't like. 

Scabbey Road is near me and they build fearful cabs, I've been meaning to get over there to check them out but just haven't had a chance.

[xlrogue6]

Sounds like your Eden sent DC to your cab while it was dying. As a tech, I hate Edens--they look like prototypes on the inside, they're notorious among techs for weird problems. I hear they're using Ice Class D modules for power amps now, so maybe the current ones are more reliable. If your Eden can be cost effectively repaired, I'd recommend finding it a new home.

[lembic76450]

Greg,  I have been a lover of 15s forever, in fact , 2-1x15s is still my rehearsal rig.
That said, live,  I have been using an Acme 2x10 cab for a few years.  Both bands I play in
one cab is more than enough.  My dream rig would be two of these in a vertical stack, but,
as I said, only one is necessary.  These cabs put out big sound, comparable to an 18, in my opinion.
The only drawback to them is that you need to hit them with a lot of wattage.  I use either a 600 watt or 900
watt head, not to get loud, just they are intentionally inefficient.
The irony here is, the designer, Andy Lewis, is a drummer.

[dfung60]

A solid state power amp wouldn't normally have an output transformer (that output matching transformer is the heaviest part of a tube amp).

I think JimmyJ, as usual, is dead on about what happened.  You've developed a short either in the speaker cable or the cabinet.  The short causes the output impedance to drop and this causes much more current to flow through the output transistors in the power amp stage.  Those transistors have a limit on how much heat they can dissipate, and when you exceed that, they literally burn up.  When you run in bridged mode, the two amps are each amplifying half the signal, and they "see" half the output impedance, so you're already stressing the output transistors with more current. 

If you were hearing fuzzy output before it failed, that was the transistors running in the danger zone and getting damaged, but not to complete failure.  When they output transistors go, they may send a final burst of current/DC through to the speakers, which is how they got nuked.

If this just happened suddenly - you didn't feel it was getting progressively more distorted, then you want to look carefully at the speaker cable to make sure there's not a short there.  The speaker cable and connectors are a lot more fragile than the wiring inside the cabinet.

[lbpesq]

And make sure you are using speaker cable and not instrument cable.  Instrument cable is shielded, speaker cable isn't.  A crimp or other damage to an instrument cable can cause the shielding to short out which is why you don't want to use instrument cable for speakers.

Bill, tgo

[mario_farufyno]

ugh...aside from the burnt plastic smell that sounds exactly like what happened to me.

How could a low end pulse do that?  Is it possible by throwing the SF2 in there that could have caused something similar to happen to me?  I didn't have it set for anything crazy.

I think our brothers David F and Jimmy J hit the spot. Not a SF2 fault, probably some short at the cabinet droped impedance and ruined amp's output stage or a fail at amp killed one or more speakers (which drops impedance, too). Usually a HPF circuit protects speakers from DC passing through, but when this not happens this "signal" can push the cone furhter away its limits ripping it and even burnt the coil depending on power.

Audio signal is like a AC, moving speaker cone in and outwards to reproduce sounds. DC put it fixed in a stressed extreme position they are not intended to be and that can ruin them. A proper working amp don't allows that to happen but if something bad occurs to it, the fail can harm things ahead.

You can say impedance is a sum of the ways a speaker resists to let a audio signal pass through its coil. That resistance is fixed to entire signal since a coil behaves like a resistor, but also increases with frequency because a coil is a high pass filter too. Suming that variable reactance with the fixed resistance is what its called impedance. 

An amp expects to "see" some resistance from cabinet and this is what defines how much power will flow to cabinet. If the impedance drops by a cable's short or by a blown speaker, it may "asks" for more power than your amp will be able to generate, overheating the transformer (in a tube amp as David Fung pointed out) or its output transistors in a solid state amp.

[mario_farufyno]

Your Eden has a solid state power stage and the good news is that they are easier (and more affordable) to replace than tube amp's massive transformers.

Good to know you've already got a new cab. I'm on neo cabs too and love my 2x10" Epifani. One can argue about their low end tightness (those cabs are ducted bass reflex and produces lows by resonance) but to me matters more being tiny and light to carry around and, to be honest, lacking lows are not a problem if you work with PA systems loaded with subs (in fact they can be overwhelming at stage sometimes).

[mario_farufyno]

Sounds like your Eden sent DC to your cab while it was dying. As a tech, I hate Edens--they look like prototypes on the inside, they're notorious among techs for weird problems. I hear they're using Ice Class D modules for power amps now, so maybe the current ones are more reliable. If your Eden can be cost effectively repaired, I'd recommend finding it a new home.

Good to be aware, didn't know about that reliability issue.

[glocke]

And make sure you are using speaker cable and not instrument cable.  Instrument cable is shielded, speaker cable isn't.  A crimp or other damage to an instrument cable can cause the shielding to short out which is why you don't want to use instrument cable for speakers.

Bill, tgo

Yeah I just ordered all new cables,...not taking any chances...the ones ive been using are probably over a decade old at least and have been through a lot.  Also ordered a D800+.  Was hesitant because its all solid state but i've heard such good things about it I figured I'd give it a try.

At some point I'll get a power amp like the Demeter MinneD 800 as I do want to use my 201S, and at some point hope to acquire an F1X or F2B, but thats down the road.

[glocke]

If it's great sound with light weight you're looking for, may I point you at the fEARful 15/6/1?  I heard Edwin play through one (plus a 12/6/1) and was well and truly blown away.


Peter

I had a chance to try out a Fearless 2x12/6/1 last night at a Greenboy builders shop here in PA.  Pretty amazing sounding cabinet.  It was clear, articulate, and the low end was clear and well defined.   
I already have an HDN2x12 on the way, and now I wish I would have waited another couple of days till I had a chance to try this one out.  Heck, I just might find a way to pay for the Fearless 2x12 and spend some time comparing the two and selling off what I don't want.  Expensive way to choose a cabinet though..

He also had a used F1X he might be interested in getting rid of...