Alembic fake or real?

[Stanley Road]

Hi, I'm afraid that I'm new to this place and know practically nothing about Alembic basses. I have circa 50 guitars including 6 basses. Albeit I am British, I am located in the Middle East,  so seeing an Alembic bass is as rare as hens teeth, however, one has come up for sale and I have a few photos. I am hoping to get the serial number later today. The bass itself looks like it needs some TLC and a good clean. It appears to be an EPIC 5 but I'm a little curious to it's veracity as the neck wood doesn't look like a laminated neck and I thought that this model was a multi piece neck. I'm hopefully going to look at the guitar later today.

Anyone got any views on this model and whether it is real......what the wood is?

[jacko]

It's an EPIC model. I have the same model with quilt maple top wood.  Yours looks like zebrawood.  these were the entry level instrument for Alembic so the wood quality isn't perhaps as vivid as that used on more expensive models but they're still better than most other maker's top of the range models.

graeme

[jazzyvee]

Hmm that is an interesting bass.... that certainly isn't a standard looking neck construction to me and the fact it seems to be non laminated and with a join leads me to wonder if if could it possibly be an early prototype or test bass or maybe a replacement neck or headstock. It certainly needs to be verified before parting with money.

Alembic are critical with detail so even small things like the logo and the brand name not being centralised on the headstock gives me concern.

Do you have any chance to check out the bass in person?

Certainly ask the seller for some pictures of the control cavity and the truss rod cavity to see if the electronics are standard and it has a dual truss rod neck.

Some other things to note.
Also note there is a serial number stamped on the back of the headstock on this picture of an epic bass, something I don't see on your photograph.

Here is a clearer view of a typical Epic neck construction which again seems different in your pictures.

Also note the position of the alembic name tag appears under the D string tuner not above as in your picture.



Others with more keener eyes and knowledge of the Epic model may offer a different or supportive analysis of what  your pictures show.

[pauldo]

Alembic are critical with detail so even small things like the logo and the brand name not being centralised on the headstock gives me concern.

Yes, yes and yes.  That jumped out at me before I even saw Jazzyvee’s response.  I would think even an ‘after hours’ build/prototype would have keener attention to detail...

Do as suggested and request better photos of the details mentioned in Jazzyvee’s post. 

[jwright9]

The neck and logo look very wrong to me.
Backside of headstock photos - the tuners don't look right.
The logo looks sloppy and second rate. Like a knock off.
Also notice a lack of veneer between the core and the top of the body.
The knobs also look a little off. Possibly a touch bigger than they should be.
Looks like a knock off to me and I would steer clear of it.

I think your gut is telling you that this is a knock off and I believe you should trust your gut. That is why you posted this here, right?

[jwright9]

I am 99% sure that is a knock off.

Another thing I notice is the truss cover. It doesn't look right. The color is a bit off. Could be the photographs but all things taken into consideration it just doesn't seem right.

The body looks a little longer and more narrow that an Epic should.


Another thing...
On the back of the body there is a section wood grain (or something) that is going perpendicular to the rest of the grain.
That is not up to par for Alembic. Highly doubt they would use a piece of wood like that.

The more I look at these photos, the more I see that does not look right.

[keith_h]

You can see a scarf joint on the main portion of the neck which an original Alembic neck wouldn't have on a neck with a volute. The typical body wood for this model would be mahogany but I can't tell from the picture if this one is. It doesn't have the color or grain pattern I would expect but that could be the lighting. As you said it does look to be in rough shape. If the body is original, I suspect it is, then at the minimum the neck has been heavily repaired or replaced. 

[edwardofhuncote]

Somebody somewhere in southeast Asia had some Epic-shaped bodies on ebay a while back. I bet this is one. Hard to say about the hardware and electronic components from those pictures... they look legit, just amateurishly mounted.


My gut says this is not 100%. Maybe not even 1%.

[lembic76450]

You may find the serial number is under the backplate on the shelf that it
screws into.  The official release year for the Epic is 1994, though there are
a few '93s out there.  The bass looks like it has been played. If it is a knockoff,
and I am not totally convinced, is it possible the neck has been replaced?  That
would be a skill beyond me.  On my Epic 4 the tuners for the A and D strings are
almost touching each other.  The cone headstock has had a few adjustments
done to it over the years, as has the body.
Hopefully Mica will check in with her opinion. 

[jazzyvee]

The truss rod cover and back covers are usually plastic unless it was a custom option when ordered.
I don't want to put my neck on the block and say it's fake but I think with so many things that look non standard it's worth making sure you are getting the full blooded genuine item.
The other thing that looks wry to me is that the pickups look different widths, that could be an optical illusion but hopefully the OP will relay any info back to us here.
Or as you say lembic 76450 mica may enlighten us.

[jwright9]

I don't want to put my neck on the block and say it's fake...

I will! It's fake.
Too many things look wrong and/or questionable about it. First off, the neck. But the body also has issues.

I don't mind putting my neck on the block and saying that it is fake. If I am wrong, then so be it.
As my wife can tell you, I am wrong pretty often. LOL!

[Stanley Road]

Thanks for the responses, I have subsequently been sent this photo of the back of the headstock and serial number.

The serial number looks about right but the headstock and tuners look dubious!

[keith_h]

Its a 1996 model and the serial number sequence looks in line with the 1994 number from J-V's update. However the stamp font looks a bit off to me. There have been times that Alembic couldn't get the customer tuners with the "A" so that it in itself isn't conclusive. Mica will have the definitive answer. If you want a genuine Alembic I would pass on this one as even if the body and parts of the neck are original the neck has had a major repair which to me devalues it considerably. To quote an missing member, "There will always be another".

[jwright9]

It's not legit.

[keith_h]

As my wife can tell you, I am wrong pretty often. LOL!


 

Isn't that sweet of her not letting you forget such an important nugget?   
Edit: Fix formatting