On the subject of audience shot videos of performances

[dead_head]

I really liked your post, Jimmy. I feel pretty much the same way. I'm at the age where I don't like people with iphones blocking my view while they record the
performance, or worse still, the people that talk loudly through the whole show. Why did they come in the first place? And did I mention that I'm old?
(very old).

Rob   

[David Houck]

The people talking through the show thing is of course much older than smart phones.  Somewhat relatedly ...

I attended college in Chapel Hill and continued to live there for quite some time after I finished.  During the seventies, the best bar for music was the Town Hall.  There was no seating; you either stood or sat on the floor.  I saw lots of bands there (and played there a few times as well) but my favorite was the Dixie Dregs.  We would get there early and sit down front, as did lots of other folks; but eventually a few other folks would make their way down front to dance, which not only blocked the audience's view of the musicians but was rather problematic, what with their dancing where people were sitting.

And while it's different from the cell-phone videographers, and from the talking through the show folks, it does demonstrate that people have different views on what going to see a band is about.

Back in 1979 or so, I had just arrived at the Grand Canyon for the first time; we drove up and stopped at the first overlook we came to.  The view was immense, and I stood there just soaking it in, absorbed in the experience.  Another car pulls up, the passenger gets out, walks up to the wall, takes a picture, gets back in the car, and drives away.  They weren't there for more than a few seconds; but I guess they got a nice picture.

Perhaps that's similar to the spent the entire show staring at the ipad thing.

   

[pauldo]

'Dancing to the Dixie Dregs'.
That made me pause -  but I guess you could if you wanted to.

[slawie]

This

[rv_bass]

I got yelled at once (by a number of people) for dancing at a Frank Zappa show, it really took me by surprise, I was just having a good time.

I work at a techie place, but spent most of my time in previous decades, so I can relate to what people have expressed in this thread. Unfortunately it's the new norm.  Technology is speeding up at a rapid pace and won't slow down.  There are people where I work who are looking to permanently couple technology with human senses, altering in many ways the way we perceive the world around us.  Scary, but intriguing at the same time.  Society and the way we behave will continue to evolve and change, as too will the rules that define and guide acceptable behavior. Bad craziness as the good Dr. Duke would say...

[HyAlembicK]

The only thing I think I can add is the trend of less music sales of albums and associated products. Countered by larger income generation from live performances. As a late 60s baby who had an older brother connected to the music scene via one of the largest radio station in Cincinnati. I saw a lot of shows as a youngster, and played my share. The big hitters are killing it. But the kids want what the kids want. And right now they want free vids. Most could care less about fidelity, as if they even know what that means. They seem to be interested in whatever, and less genre specific. So, if you can get to the top of the search engines, you can book shows. Ultimately local groups can get better fan base, becoming regional, than national without the help of big recording industry. We all watched it die. And that's why the record companies don't have the hold they once had.

Lucky a few of us still kept great gigs, like JJ. Some keep going locally / regionally cause we love our craft. All of us here love the people that helped create the sounds we love to hear.

Money is the great equalizer. And, if giving your stuff away for free, gets you more down the road? Than you just validated the Grateful Deads basic principal. Which is, I think, why they didn't care about tapers. Free publicity.

[bigredbass]

At 62, I'm further along than some of you in terms of running faster and faster downhill into Full Time Curmudgeonry.  I'm well along in realizing my Grumpy Old Fart merit badge.

The difference between artists and performers and musicians and 'civilians' (the unwashed mobs with their smart phones or idiots with I-Pads in JT's face) has always been there, and 'us and them' divide.  Consumption by them of what artists do has now been commoditized to an LCD (or lowest common denominator) level by digital technology in that now it's essentially worthless:  Because you can get it for free, with essentially no legal or societal repercussions, everybody does it without a care in the world.

When I was young, approaching and learning and putting in my '10,000 Hours' was the way, and we admired and valued those who were already there.  That still exists in some corners, but it's more and more rare.  Now it's push-button, built with loops or samples, and the standards are far lower in general.

I realize change is constant, I need to adapt, to forget, and move one, and to dwell and moan about 'the way things used to be' is a fool's errand . . . . . . but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

What really gets me?  I have turned into my parents.  They wanted to listen to Sinatra and Big Band Records, and wanted no part of Motown or The Beatles, I thought they were dinosaurs. . . . . so now I suppose I have truly turned into Wilson the Neanderthal.

[lbpesq]

I'm also 62, and must disagree.  We are not our parents.  The popular music our parents listened to, like Sinatra, the Dorseys, Glenn Miller, Cab Calloway, etc., was good music.  I may not have realized it at 15, but I came to realize it as I grew older and more experienced.  (I also came to really appreciate classical music).  The popular music we listened to growing up, like the Beatles, Motown, the San Francisco sound, country rock, folk rock, Dylan, the Band, etc., was also good music.  Unfortunately, a lot of today's "popular music" really is crap.  I'm sorry, but somebody reciting rhythmic poetry to a drum beat and occasionally venturing into actual melody only with the employment of autotune is not music!  How's that for a curmudgeonly rant!

Bill, tgo

[keith_h]

Dave. Your comment about dancing and the Dregs brings back a memory from my early 20's. The used to be a concert club in the Chicago area called Beginnings. They would have a wide variety bands with differing music styles. One concert I went to with the lead guitarist at the band was Brand X. We had a good table and a couple of young women asked if they could share it with us. Being single who were we to say "No"? As we talked they asked who the band was. We told them Brand X. The very next question was, "Can you dance to them?". Craig just about fell off his chair trying to keep a straight face. All I could say was they could try.

[David Houck]

     

[cozmik_cowboy]

Bill, a few years ago I was a substitute teacher; I posed the following to some high school students:
"Every day I come to school and I see kids who could be my grandchildren wearing t-shirts for my generation's music - Hendrix, the Beatles, the Who, the Grateful Dead - let me see the hands of anyone who thinks their grandkids will be wearing t-shirts for Justin Beiber or Eminem."
Exactly zero hands went up.
I, too, now dig the Dorseys, Miller. Callowy, et al - but I still can't get behind Sinatra.  Dean Martin, absolutely, but Frank just leaves me cold.  I maintain, based on his singing & acting, that he had a career solely because he had friends who'd kneecap you if you didn't hire him.

Peter (Who was taught that music was combination of melody, harmony, and rhythm, and does not believe that if you take away melody & harmony what you have is music.  Now get off my lawn!)

[bigredbass]

Mid-Course Correction:  Dave, I can't bake ziti or any of my Italian dishes without Frank or Dean or Tony Bennett going in the kitchen;  I grew up enough to appreciate it and lots of other stuff as you point out.  One of my absolute faves is 'Got You Under My Skin', the Nelson Riddle arrangement that Riddle scribbled out in his car as his wife drove him to a hastily-called session as Sinatra wanted to do one more 'Right Now'.  My God, giants walked the Earth . . . .

I meant that as a shallow smart-ass kid (I was, imagine that . . . . ), I just thought 'OMG, how can they listen to THAT'.   I've outgrown those days, although even at my age, my inner 12-year old will still rear up on occasion . . . . .

[jazzyvee]

Dead_head, a few years ago way before social media and mobile phone cameras. I used to regularly go to a jazz club in town called Ronnie Scotts. Anyway the real problem there was that people would talk too loudly all the way through the gig and it was annoying. Anyway one night I was there watching this great blues artiste Joe Louis Walker, how did an awesome gig by the way, and he suddenly stopped the band and waited a few seconds then announced on the mic "Excuse me are we playing too loud and disturbing your conversation?"
Bingo.... the volume of the crowd dropped for the rest of the gig .. marvellous!

[pauldo]

Jazzy, that directly hits the point.  Even if you run into a long lost friend at the show, if you absolutely MUST converse with them - step outside, go to the back of the room, remove yourself from The Performance.
Hats off to Joe Louis Walker.

My parents music; I grew up with my ear glued to the local prog- rock station (WZMF). After playing with a great swing band is when I "got it".  One of my favorite tunes to listen to AND play, Glen Miller's Moonlight Seranade.  It baffles me, quarter notes all the way through (toss in a ghost here and there). But I just LOVE that song, it kinda lopes along, I settle into the pocket and then just drift with it.

[cozmik_cowboy]

The Lovely & Charming always gets miffed when we go to see live music - and I don't want to chat.  Sorry, Dear, they have my attention until they're done (or I decide they suck - and then we'll leave, not talk during the performance). 
Though actually, since I started embarrassing myself at the local folkie open mic night, she's learning to scowl at talkers....and in that room they are, I fear, legion.

Peter