In Ear Monitor Advice

[lbpesq]

We're going to be limited to six AUX outs for four or five people, so assigning two per person won't work.  I'm thinking maybe I could do a balanced mix on AUX #1, split that five ways and send that on one side to everyone, then each person gets their own AUX feed in the other side and can tweak that side any way they want.  Anyone ever done it that way?  Or is there a headphone amp that can split a mono signal and let you EQ each side separately?   Any other ideas?  This is all new to me.

Bill, tgo

[rustyg61]

We use Aviom 16 channel individual monitor mixer/headphone amps at my church & they have the capability to pan left or right. I experimented with panning, but went back to having everything centered. For me it is easier to play having a balanced mix in my ears over a true stereo mix where my brain has to process different instruments in differrent ears. Stereo is great for listening to music, but not so much when playing it in a completely isolated in ear world.

[edwin]

We use Aviom 16 channel individual monitor mixer/headphone amps at my church & they have the capability to pan left or right. I experimented with panning, but went back to having everything centered. For me it is easier to play having a balanced mix in my ears over a true stereo mix where my brain has to process different instruments in differrent ears. Stereo is great for listening to music, but not so much when playing it in a completely isolated in ear world.

Interesting! Mono creates masking problems and also makes it obvious that it's an in ear mix. If I have a some good panning (and place the instruments in their position relative to me) and judicious use of reverb, the ears can float away and it sounds again like I'm in the room.

Different strokes....

[StephenR]

If anyone has been considering getting IEMs from 64 Audio they are having a 20% off Black Friday sale.

This Black Friday weekend get 20% off all store wide products including Custom In-Ear Monitors & Universal-Fit Earphones.
At checkout use promo code: BF16
Restrictions apply: A2e and Chord Mojo not included in promotion. Promotion open to international customers. Universal-Fit products not included for China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan customers due to distribution agreements. Contact your local distributor for more info.
Promotion runs from Friday, November 25, 12:01am - Sunday, November 27, 11:59pm PST.
Custom in-ear monitors require you to send in your ear impressions.

Sensaphonics usually holds their sale during the January NAMM show. Last year in addition to the price cut they were offering free ear impressions to NAMM show attendees. You did not need to attend the show to get the sale price on the IEMs but would have to pay a local audiologist to get the ear molds done.

[rustyg61]

We use Aviom 16 channel individual monitor mixer/headphone amps at my church & they have the capability to pan left or right. I experimented with panning, but went back to having everything centered. For me it is easier to play having a balanced mix in my ears over a true stereo mix where my brain has to process different instruments in differrent ears. Stereo is great for listening to music, but not so much when playing it in a completely isolated in ear world.

Interesting! Mono creates masking problems and also makes it obvious that it's an in ear mix. If I have a some good panning (and place the instruments in their position relative to me) and judicious use of reverb, the ears can float away and it sounds again like I'm in the room.

Different strokes....

I'm not sure if we have reverb available on our monitor mix at church, but the main issue is that we have 2 different bass players using the same Aviom, so I have to reset it for what I like every time I play & we only have 30 minutes before the service starts to run through the music, so no time for extensive sound check. I go with a very basic mix just putting the instruments I need to hear in my buds.

[David Houck]

Edwin; I thought about your comment on mixing your in-ears so that each instrument is heard relative to where you are standing on the stage.  So I'm wondering if it's disorienting if you've been standing relatively still and then suddenly turn around to face your amp; or maybe walk over to face the drummer?

Before in-ears, if a player turned to face his amp, the brain would automatically compensate so that the other players were still perceived to be in their original relative positions.

Another example; if you're cooking veggies in the wok, you can turn and walk over to the refrigerator, then turn and walk over to the dining table, then turn again and return to the stove, and the brain automatically maintains the fixed location of the sound of the veggies despite the movement of the ears relative to the stove.

So, when you're wearing in-ears that have a stereo mix with the other players in fixed positions relative to where you normally stand on the stage, if you turn and/or move from that location, does the brain try to compensate?  Or does the guitar player sound like he's suddenly on the other end of the stage, and the singer is out in the audience?

 

[JimmyJ]

Rusty, I believe the Aviom rig has a memory function, no?  You should be able to save both yours and the other bass player's preferred mixes and recall them with the touch of 2 buttons.  And if you change something during your set you simply save your changes as your new preset mix...

I am treated to a stereo mix when I'm using in-ears with JT.  And I do generally pan the players as they appear onstage around me with the exception of hi-hat which I make sure is always audible in my left ear.  Like wearing headphones, it only takes a second to get used to the "orientation" of the situation.  And I love the fact that I can walk 10 feet in any direction and still be hearing everything I need to hear to keep track of my place in the song - and the groove.  And if the guitar player standing stage-left of you plays something cool and you have him panned left, you will naturally turn your head in that direction to smile.


I grew up wearing phones so this in-ear setup works great for me.  But if you are in a situation where you need to be more directly connected to the audience it can be kind of ... isolating.  It's not for everybody.

Jimmy J

[pauldo]

Jeepers  Dave, that seems like a lot of walking with wok going. . . . but as you inferred, the sound will tell you where the process is at.  The morel* of all this? Listen to your veggies!



*pun intended, trying to be a fungi.

[edwin]

Edwin; I thought about your comment on mixing your in-ears so that each instrument is heard relative to where you are standing on the stage.  So I'm wondering if it's disorienting if you've been standing relatively still and then suddenly turn around to face your amp; or maybe walk over to face the drummer?

Before in-ears, if a player turned to face his amp, the brain would automatically compensate so that the other players were still perceived to be in their original relative positions.

Another example; if you're cooking veggies in the wok, you can turn and walk over to the refrigerator, then turn and walk over to the dining table, then turn again and return to the stove, and the brain automatically maintains the fixed location of the sound of the veggies despite the movement of the ears relative to the stove.

So, when you're wearing in-ears that have a stereo mix with the other players in fixed positions relative to where you normally stand on the stage, if you turn and/or move from that location, does the brain try to compensate?  Or does the guitar player sound like he's suddenly on the other end of the stage, and the singer is out in the audience?

 

It's generally not a problem as your ears and brain quickly gets used to what it sounds like. The only thing I've noticed that sometimes is a little odd is if I turn and face the drummer and the hi hat and ride as well as the toms are in conflict with what you see. But it's really not a problem.

However, there is now a plugin from Waves that is available that can make the adjustments for you automatically, in conjunction with this device: http://www.waves.com/hardware/nx-head-tracker

But the most important aspect of having things panned is to be able to heard things distinctly. It's not just valuable for being able to localize things in space, it also allows for rhythmic clarity. If you have rhythm guitar on one side and keys on the other, you get a much clearer sense of what both players are doing and where the real holes are to fit your notes. I often arrange my mix to satisfy these criteria rather than a strict layout of the stage. Rhythmic instruments panned fairly hard with melodic elements panned center along with bass and kick drum.

Last night at The Last Waltz Revisited show, we had a monitor engineer onboard who was really into getting in ear mixes going, so I got to use them for the first time in that context. It worked out great with rhythmic stuff panned, horn section less tightly panned, and melodic stuff in the middle. In a cavernous place like the Fillmore in Denver, it made a huge difference. I normally hate playing there because the acoustics are so terrible, but this made it even fun. Not quite as perfect as doing the mix myself, but very close.

[edwin]

Rusty, I believe the Aviom rig has a memory function, no?  You should be able to save both yours and the other bass player's preferred mixes and recall them with the touch of 2 buttons.  And if you change something during your set you simply save your changes as your new preset mix...

I am treated to a stereo mix when I'm using in-ears with JT.  And I do generally pan the players as they appear onstage around me with the exception of hi-hat which I make sure is always audible in my left ear.  Like wearing headphones, it only takes a second to get used to the "orientation" of the situation.  And I love the fact that I can walk 10 feet in any direction and still be hearing everything I need to hear to keep track of my place in the song - and the groove.  And if the guitar player standing stage-left of you plays something cool and you have him panned left, you will naturally turn your head in that direction to smile.


I grew up wearing phones so this in-ear setup works great for me.  But if you are in a situation where you need to be more directly connected to the audience it can be kind of ... isolating.  It's not for everybody.

Jimmy J

Doing your own ears if you don't have a regular monitor mixer along with your own desk or being able to use identical digital desks, like the Avids where you can bring your mix from venue to venue, is great for having your mixes consistent from venue to venue. In Shakedown Street we have our Metric Halo rig, so everyone's mixes are 95% done before we hit the stage. After tweaking the preamp gains and few things here and there, soundcheck is done.

Isolation can be a problem, as well as communication with band members between songs. I'm trying to come up with a good system to turn the mics into intercoms, where they are routed to the in ears but not the PA with the touch of a footswitch or something similar. I've also taken to putting a couple of omni mics up at the front of the stage to be able to blend in audience and room sound. They are also useful for recordings (SDC pressure mics vs. omni patterns derived from dual capsule mics provide very smooth reproduction as well as killer low end).

[David Houck]

The only thing I've noticed that sometimes is a little odd is if I turn and face the drummer and the hi hat and ride as well as the toms are in conflict with what you see. But it's really not a problem.

However, there is now a plugin from Waves that is available that can make the adjustments for you automatically, in conjunction with this device: http://www.waves.com/hardware/nx-head-tracker

Hah!

[rv_bass]

Do you guys use an amp and cab as well as the IEM?  One thing I love about playing bass is being able to feel the bass as well as hear it, I get such a charge out of that.  Not sure I would want to give that up.

[rustyg61]

Rusty, I believe the Aviom rig has a memory function, no?  You should be able to save both yours and the other bass player's preferred mixes and recall them with the touch of 2 buttons.  And if you change something during your set you simply save your changes as your new preset mix...

I am treated to a stereo mix when I'm using in-ears with JT.  And I do generally pan the players as they appear onstage around me with the exception of hi-hat which I make sure is always audible in my left ear.  Like wearing headphones, it only takes a second to get used to the "orientation" of the situation.  And I love the fact that I can walk 10 feet in any direction and still be hearing everything I need to hear to keep track of my place in the song - and the groove.  And if the guitar player standing stage-left of you plays something cool and you have him panned left, you will naturally turn your head in that direction to smile.


I grew up wearing phones so this in-ear setup works great for me.  But if you are in a situation where you need to be more directly connected to the audience it can be kind of ... isolating.  It's not for everybody.

Jimmy J

Jimmy, you are correct that the Aviom does have a memory function to save mixes, but I haven't used it because we change players in the band every service. Sometimes we have 2 or 3 guitar players & sometimes just 1. We can also have 1 or 2 keyboard players plus piano, so even if I save my mix chances are I will still have to adjust it for the next service. Somtimes the sound man changes the levels of the sends coming to the Aviom so we have to compensate for that. I tried to get everyone to start out with all the individual channel gains set low & the master high on the Aviom so they have plenty of headroom to boost individual instruments or vocals, but not everyone is doing that & if they need something louder in their ears they get the soundman to boost it, but that affects everyone.

I wish we had more time to get a good soundcheck & I could experiment with panning, but that probably won't happen.

[rustyg61]

Do you guys use an amp and cab as well as the IEM?  One thing I love about playing bass is being able to feel the bass as well as hear it, I get such a charge out of that.  Not sure I would want to give that up.

Rob, I feel the same way you do which is why I was the lone holdout for getting in ears with my old band, but I can honestly say that with my 64 Audio A8's I can still feel the bass! It may not be blowing my pants legs like a live rig, but if your rig is loud enough to blow your pants legs your soundman & bandmates probably aren't very happy with you! LOL!

[rv_bass]

Thanks, Rusty. 

I play with three horn players, keyboard, guitar and drums.  Every now and then I have to assert myself!   I'll check out the IEM technology to see what it's like.  Bass players, under cover alphas! 

Rob