Author Topic: In Ear Monitor Advice  (Read 6211 times)

ed_zeppelin

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2016, 01:45:41 PM »

...So back to your question, I'm a tone guy when it comes to producing sound but maybe less so when it comes to reproducing it.  Ha!  I've worked in studios most of my life and gotten used to making do with whatever the headphones might sound like.  As long as I can hear what I need to hear to play with the band I can deal with it.  ...


I've just been lurking on Rusty's thread here, mostly because I haven't any experience at all with IEM's, and therefore nothing to add. It was strictly for educational purposes, in case I ever did. But then this snippet of Jimmy J's reply just tied my brain in a square knot. Pretty much equates to "Use The Force, Luke..." ;D


I need to be more disciplined, especially in the studio, but onstage too. Trust the bass, trust the engineer. Going to go write that 100 times now...


Great thread guys.  8)


Likewise, I've been lurking in hopes of picking up some things for when I get IEMs (I'll have to show Jimmy how to grimace so fiercely those babies will pop across the stage. Maybe the whole band can do it during "Your Smiling Face"). Oops, I digre


Anyway, your comment about trusting the engineer(s) brought to mind a nifty technique I discovered by accident back when I was playing with Roomful of Blues in the 80s, and it's never let me down. We had a gig at the Hatch Shell in Boston with a couple of other bands and everybody was complaining about the soundmen. It sounded fine to me (especially for an outdoor venue with thousand of spectators), so I wandered over to the board during the opening acts and struck up a conversation with one of the engineers. Apparently they were in a surly mood from people "commenting" about the sound, so I struggled to think of another topic.


I blurted the first thing that came to mind; "so, uh ... Who's your favorite painter?" He looked at me kinda funny and named somebody (I don't remember who) and added; "why do you ask?" I winged it. "Because what you do seems like the same thing, only you use sound instead of paint." Holy cow. It was like watching rain clouds evaporate. The dude positively beamed.


All I can say is that when we hit the stage, the sound was superb. He waved to me from the board, I gave him a thumb's up and life was sweet. (He probably waved at the complainers, too, but at least with me he used his whole hand instead of just one finger.)


Ever since, I've asked the same question to every engineer I've worked with, and it has a dramatic effect on their attitude (it works even better with other musicians). It's one of those things that has no downside, either, because it's honest, and the answer isn't the important part, it's just that I asked the question. Four little words. Does anybody mind being considered an artist? There ya go.


Whenever I read about people who regard engineers and soundmen as some kind of nemesis, I always think; "don't they realize that if there's anybody you don't want to piss off, it's sound engineers?"


To paraphrase Benjamin Disraeli-Gear's advice about dealing with royalty;


"Everyone likes flattery; and when you come to [soundmen], you should lay it on with a trowel."[/size]
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rustyg61

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2016, 08:07:35 PM »
Thanks so much for the link Jimmy! That shines a whole new light on what I have been looking at. It would seem that  hybrid with a dynamic driver for lows & balanced armatures for the highs would be the way to go.

Thanks also for your insight on the silicone models having too good a seal. I don't want the "ears full of water" effect. The stage sound at my church is not that loud so I think any custom mold set would seal out the ambient sound well enough.

I can see where you are coming from being happy with your live tone as long as you can hear what you are playing, but I also like to enjoy my tone as I listen to what I'm playing. I bought an SF-2 just to tweak my stage sound. My signal chain is F-2B to Radial DI to SF-2 to power amp to speakers. So I can adjust the SF-2 without affecting the FOH. I guess my main concern is to find some IEM's that are responsive to tone adjustments & can handle a low B without distorting or sounding bloated.

When I read this comment "I'm working on some kind of facial move that would pop them completely out.  It would be a great party trick!" I immediately picture the "Panic Pete doll whose ears bulge out when you squeeze him!

We use Aviom headphone mixers so each player can adjust his own mix. It has bass & treble & even pan along with 16 channels so you can set the levels of each instrument or vocal to your liking. Everything is hard wired, no wireless units. Using my Senhieser headphones I can get a good sound on my bass & the rest of the mix. So I'm not sure if I could use another headphone amp in conjunction with the Aviom.

Thanks again for your input!
Rusty
2011 SCSD
2014 "Blue Orca" Series II Europa
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_blueorca.html

edwin

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2016, 11:56:53 PM »
I've pretty much given my opinion, but I will say that, with regards to Rusty's excellent chart of different models, we should take the provided specs with a grain of salt, especially where isolation is concerned. Without knowing the methodology of testing, it's hard to know the baseline for each of the different models.

Interesting that you should mention painters, Ed! My wife is a painter and for her birthday on Sunday we went to the Denver Art Museum to see the Women in Abstract Expressionism show (it was doubly interesting for me because my parents knew a lot of the artists and when I was Xander's age, they would drag me to gallery after gallery in NYC to see them and more. Now I got to bring Xander to have the same experience! He did love this part, though: https://www.facebook.com/edwin.hurwitz/videos/10154467849049134/?l=1096823762737530593). It got me to thinking that it would be kind of inspiring to have art like that within sight while playing, so I'm going to have to figure out to do that. Everyone has pictures of their kids on their amps, etc. I'm thinking of a de Kooning or Frankenthaler instead. In any case, great psychological move! It's a win/win for everyone!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-of-abstract-expressionism_us_5771350ae4b017b379f67628

David Houck

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2016, 04:49:43 PM »
Cool video Edwin!

rustyg61

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2016, 06:56:29 PM »
Well, just to bring this thread & my search to a conclusion, I just ordered a set of 64 Audio A8's. https://www.64audio.com/product/1964-A8-Custom-In-Ear-Monitor They are specifically made for bass & drums & each bud has 4 low, 2 mid, & 2 high balanced armatures. I talked to some bass players  who have them & love them. They say they have tons of bottom & crystal clear highs, so I'm sure I will love them! I sent my ear impressions off today so hopefully I'll have the buds in a coup,e of weeks. I paid for a rush order with a 6 day build time.


Thanks again for all your advice!


Rusty
Rusty
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edwin

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2016, 03:50:38 PM »
Congrats! Let us know how they sound!

What are you going to power them with?


Well, just to bring this thread & my search to a conclusion, I just ordered a set of 64 Audio A8's. https://www.64audio.com/product/1964-A8-Custom-In-Ear-Monitor They are specifically made for bass & drums & each bud has 4 low, 2 mid, & 2 high balanced armatures. I talked to some bass players  who have them & love them. They say they have tons of bottom & crystal clear highs, so I'm sure I will love them! I sent my ear impressions off today so hopefully I'll have the buds in a coup,e of weeks. I paid for a rush order with a 6 day build time.


Thanks again for all your advice!


Rusty

rustyg61

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2016, 06:18:27 PM »
Thanks Edwin! I'm using these at my church & each person in the band has their own Aviom headphone mixer so we can do our own mixes. It has 16 channels with level & pan on each & a master volume & master bass & treble. I also bought a Tech 21 Para Drive DI preamp direct box with EQ so I can EQ my bass for my in ears. I used it last night & it worked great!

Rusty
2011 SCSD
2014 "Blue Orca" Series II Europa
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_blueorca.html

edwin

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2016, 10:20:34 PM »
Thanks Edwin! I'm using these at my church & each person in the band has their own Aviom headphone mixer so we can do our own mixes. It has 16 channels with level & pan on each & a master volume & master bass & treble. I also bought a Tech 21 Para Drive DI preamp direct box with EQ so I can EQ my bass for my in ears. I used it last night & it worked great!



Great news! It will change your life.

rustyg61

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2016, 08:36:22 PM »
My 64 Audio A8's shipped today! I'll have them on Friday.
Rusty
2011 SCSD
2014 "Blue Orca" Series II Europa
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_blueorca.html

rustyg61

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2016, 04:17:36 AM »
I got my 64 Audio A8 In Ears yesterday & I am blown away with them! They sound incredible! I have been using Senheiser 280 Pro headphones at my church & these A8's sound much better. The A8's actually have more bottom end than the headphones. The response is great too, I can hear the slightest changes on my filters & CVQs. They have a very warm & smooth tone  with tons of bottom. I use a SanAmp active direct box with EQ & actually turned the bass control down from what I was using on my Senheiser headphones. I haven't used them with the band yet but playing along with music on my computer the bass cuts through great! Music sound incredible too. They sound better than my M Audio studio monitors. I have always been opposed to in ear monitors because I love the sound of my AccuGroove cabinets, but these 64 Audio buds have made a believer out of me!                                               
Rusty
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rv_bass

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2016, 08:47:06 AM »
Anyone try bone conduction headphones for this purpose?

edwin

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2016, 06:15:26 PM »
They are the alpha and omega!

I'm not surprised that they outperform the Sennheisers and the M-Audio monitors. Neither of those are particularly high fidelity. Like all audio gear, they have their place, but welcome to the next level!

JimmyJ

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2016, 09:52:33 AM »
Hey, nice report Rusty. 

Congrats on your new EIGHT-WAY ears.  I'm surprised they aren't tri-amped!  Ha!

Seriously, this technology has made amazing strides since the first hearing-aid based units.  Now you'll be so spoiled and no regular old speakers will sound correct again.  Reality may not even have enough low-end!

Glad you're digging them.  I may have to try a pair with more than 2 drivers next time.  Although a guitar player pal of mine just got the FutureSonic single-driver models and loves them too.  These are all great tools for listening to and playing music.



Jimmy J

rustyg61

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2016, 10:33:58 AM »
They are the alpha and omega!

I'm not surprised that they outperform the Sennheisers and the M-Audio monitors. Neither of those are particularly high fidelity. Like all audio gear, they have their place, but welcome to the next level!

They are the Alpha & Omega for me, they are the first & last pair of in ears I will ever have! I can't imagine needing anything better. The response to EQ changes is really incredible! I played with them last night to really fine tune my tone & they really respond to very slight changes.

When I was doing research for in ears I came accross a thread on Talk Bass that was dedicated to 64 Audio users, so I read all 49 pages of comments. A recurring theme kept coming up, people talked about how they heard parts listening to music with their 64 Audio buds that they had never heard before, so they have a way of bringing "hidden" things out into the open. Shortly after reading the reviews I came accross this verse in the bible "22 For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open." Mark 4:22 Then the following verse says "23 If anyone has ears to hear, let them hear.”  So I thought both of these verses were perfect to describe the new buds & had 64 Audio put them on my buds.
Rusty
2011 SCSD
2014 "Blue Orca" Series II Europa
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_blueorca.html

rustyg61

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Re: In Ear Monitor Advice
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2016, 10:53:26 AM »
Hey, nice report Rusty. 

Congrats on your new EIGHT-WAY ears.  I'm surprised they aren't tri-amped!  Ha!

Seriously, this technology has made amazing strides since the first hearing-aid based units.  Now you'll be so spoiled and no regular old speakers will sound correct again.  Reality may not even have enough low-end!

Glad you're digging them.  I may have to try a pair with more than 2 drivers next time.  Although a guitar player pal of mine just got the FutureSonic single-driver models and loves them too.  These are all great tools for listening to and playing music.



Jimmy J

Thanks Jimmy! They do have a 3 way crossover inside! It boggles my mind that they can build something that high tech in such a tiny package!

I don't think these will ever replace the live sensation of playing through my AccuGroove El Whappo 4 way cabinet with a 15/12/6/dual tweeter combo, but they are good enough that I don't really miss the live sound now when I play at my church. When listening to music through them the kick drum literally sounds like I'm standing in front of a live PA with 18" subs!

I think 64 Audio has a booth a NAMM, so the next time you go you should definitely try them out! Of course the demo models are universal fit & won't have the low end isolation of the customs, but you can get a sense of what they sound like. Listening to music through them is like being in the studio with the band listening to the playback! The fidelity is incredible! I was skeptical at being able to get any kind of bottom end out of in ears, but these literally sound like they have 18" subs inside! And it's not muddy "rap" kind of low end, it is punchy like a kick drum with plenty of mids & highs.

To quote Ferris Bueller, "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up!"
Rusty
2011 SCSD
2014 "Blue Orca" Series II Europa
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_blueorca.html