Author Topic: Resonance  (Read 582 times)

adriaan

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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 04:19:40 AM »
John, I have to confess I'm not a musician and player first all day long. But the analytical techno head stuff is harder to switch off.
 
One thing though: McCartney would not have talked about a bass with a bolt on neck since he used mainly a Hofner (set-neck) or a Rickenbacker (neck-through). Other than that, an excellent point.

mike1762

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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2009, 05:04:16 AM »
I guess it's in my nature to want to understand these things.  I find it fascinating that something that seems relatively simple can be so complex.  I'm not unaware that many of my questions and misstatements (on this thread and others) make me look like a tool, but if you don't ask...!!!

jacko

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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 05:21:34 AM »
Adriaan beat me to it. His 5 string Wal would in all probability have been bolt on but that came after he stopped talking to Lennon ;-)
 
Graeme

white_cloud

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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 05:37:14 AM »
well guys , you have an good point about McCartney...not the best example for me to use. However I doubt any of you would disagree that the Hofner bass he employed didnt sustain/resonate all day long... set neck or not!!
 
I have to say (I know this is the Alembic club but we are allowed to praise other basses - right?) that since the Wal name has been thrown into the ring I must state my admiration for them. Superb basses, of a relatively simple construction, with a monster onboard pre-amp. Sure, it was a bolt on neck (who cares!!)but Percy Jones, Mick Karn, Geddy Lee, Jason Newstead, Justin Chancellor etc etc cant all be wrong!
 
I was lucky enough to have an amazing Wal custom back in the eighties. I always viewed them as a cross between an Alembic and a Fender Precision in sound and feel!  
 
Oh, and it sustained and resonated all day long
 
John.

811952

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« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 06:35:21 AM »
I had a Conklin 7-string bass for awhile.  It was a bolt-on and had the best sustain and fundamental of any instrument I've ever played.  That instrument had a lot of mass, and 6 or 7 big bolts holding the massive neck on.  The string tension on the fat, mostly-purpleheart neck was enormous, so the instrument was very very very stiff as well.  The mass meant the resonant frequencies of the body were well away from the fundamental of any notes playable, and the stiffness contributed to the long sustain and smooth/predictable extended overtones.  A great instrument that I do really miss (except for it being a tendonitis machine, that is).  It also held tuning better than any instrument I've ever owned, including my Series 1.5 (which holds tuning very well, thank you).
 
John

terryc

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« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2009, 07:08:10 AM »
I once read that the wood is the voice and pick ups are the microphone so if you have an instrument made from quality wood and pick ups that are the best you will get the best tone and sound.
Ron's idea of low Z pu's and pre amps with individual controls is the gold standard, I mean you would not feed all the band into one channel with high Z mics on a desk would you??

serialnumber12

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« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 07:21:26 AM »
Ive learned alot reading this topic!.......thanks guys!!!
keavin barnes @ facebook.com

serialnumber12

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« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2009, 07:48:45 AM »
Ive learned alot reading this topic!.......thanks guys!!!
keavin barnes @ facebook.com

white_cloud

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« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2009, 08:54:00 AM »
Forgot to say Mike - imho there is never, ever, a stupid question! Im glad you started this thread - it is a very interesting subject!
 
Show me a man who knows everything and I will know for sure where to find a man who knows nothing!
 
John.

David Houck

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« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2009, 10:31:09 AM »
John wrote, but we are all musicians and players first...right?
 
Speaking for me personally, no.  While music seems to be an important and integral part of my path, the idea that I am a musician or bass player before anything else doesn't seem to be an accurate description of that path.

bsee

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« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2009, 01:59:46 PM »
Well, the talk gets technical around here from time to time because we have a lot of investors.  Everyone who buys, or thinks of buying, an Alembic puts a significant amount of their money out to do so.  Now, if you're looking at a used $1000 Spoiler (well, maybe $1500 these days), you will get what you pay for and there aren't a lot of choices.  On the other hand, if you're looking at a custom built instrument that will cost you between five and fifteen thousand dollars, you kind of want to make the right choices.  As great as Alembic instruments are, the original owner who decides to sell will take quite a financial hit.  It is not unusual for the loss to be about a third of the original cost.  That's a lot of money and time to throw away if the instrument you ordered isn't what you expected.  Is it any surprise that people who are thinking about putting $10K of their money down for something want to understand what they are getting and order the right options?
 
As far as the this great player used a piece of limp vermicelli strung between two popsicle sticks arguments that show up from time to time, I'm not sure they apply.  In my reality, an instrument is a tool.  Some tools are great for one thing and suck for anything else, other tools can be used for a wide variety of jobs.  Alembics, to me, can do just about anything, but try creating a signature Ric sound with a P-Bass or vice versa.  When a player is put together with a compatible instrument, you get something great. Some instruments also have an inspiration factor that impacts what comes out.  Would someone like Jaco have written the things he did on a pristine Alembic?  Maybe not, but whatever came out would probably still have been memorable.  I highly suspect that if Alembics were as common and affordable as the Fender, Hofner and Ric were in the 60s, that at least a few of the great players people point to in these comparisons would have been playing them.  Many of those guys have looked beyond their original instruments in the years since they made it.
 
Is a guy who plays continuous 16th notes with a pick going to care about sustain?  Probably attack will be more important.  If you're playing ballads and occasionally need to let a note ring for two or three measures, maximizing sustain might be more important to you.  Maximizing sustain is also more than just that.  The same features that improve sustain often also provide a stronger fundamental and better bass response on short duration notes.  There are dozens of other characteristics that have to be balanced as well.
 
In short, those instruments worked for what those players wanted to do.  Some of what they played may even have been a result of the limitations of those instruments.  The reality is that every player and situation has its own dynamics, and choice of instrument is a very personal thing.
 
That's all kind of hazy, but one thing is clear.  I get more compliments on my bass tone with an Alembic than I ever did playing Modulus, Ibanez or Spector.  I doubt I'm the only one around here in that situation.
 
-bob

mike1762

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« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2009, 03:35:54 PM »
I recently ordered a custom built 6 string bass and that is what got me to researching all this.  I have a very specific tone in my head, but I had no idea how to go about making it happen.  While I obviously still have a lot to learn, I THINK I made all the appropriate choices.  I'll find out soon enougth (it should be delivered tomorrow or Thursday).  While it was not an Alembic, I did drop a chunk of change on it.  The experience of ordering a custom build was very different than going to Guitar Center and choosing which color you like best!!!  I bought my Alembics used; therefore, I was saved the stress of making those decisions with them.
 
(Message edited by mike1762 on January 13, 2009)

white_cloud

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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2009, 02:53:24 AM »
Dave - I must correct you as I feel VERY strongly about the assumption you have come to about my statement;
 
The statement that I made was in the context of my musical experiences, in the realms of bands, within the realms of equipment, interacting with other musicians etc etc etc. This IS a musical instrument forum/club after all is it not??  
 
I, obviously incorrectly, assumed (never a wise thing I will admit) that my statement would have been interperated within that context - because I can assure you that in my lifetime path I have experienced many, many trials, tribulations and tragedies that put the topic of Musical instruments, musicianship and playing firmly into perspective my friend! Its no big drama though - fate places obsticles in front of us all and we just have to live, learn and progress.
 
Obviously, being a player and a musician is first to me in the MUSICAL context of my life (although actually building basses is becoming almost as important to me - and, no, I dont get hung up on every tiny detail of my builds...they just sound good) however in the scheme of the other aspects of my life it means little in the grand scale of things.  
 
Its a hobby I enjoy.
 
If members enjoy talking about why a bass sounds good in minute detail then god bless them, I sincerely hope they derive enjoyment from it - life is too short! I simply try to offer an alternate point of view...is it not the whole point of forums like this???
 
John.

jacko

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« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2009, 03:18:24 AM »
Can I stick my hand up and say that I'd read John's comment and interpreted it the same way as Dave. However, I'll say no more as we're veering wildly from Mike's original question.
 
graeme

adriaan

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« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2009, 04:49:08 AM »
I agree, it was a rather sweeping statement.
 
But let's resume our regularly scheduled programme of interruptions (without repetition, hesitation or deviation).