Author Topic: CALLING ALL MEMBERS, you need to read and please reply with feedback (Read 643 times)

rami · « **Reply #45 on:** April 29, 2009, 07:38:11 PM »

I think the my most practical option is just to try to save up the old fashioned way and get exactly what I want - back to the Dreaming...For Now threads for me.

I'm outta here.

gyonnii · « **Reply #46 on:** April 29, 2009, 08:49:06 PM »

All I got to say is that if it can be done legal then let it happen otherwise it won't and this tread will end but we all found out one thing everyone loves Alembic's and whether or not you pay taxes or hate the IRS well whatever...this is not about the bull going on in our economy this is about owning a Bass guitar.

people give things away everyday and organize functions and activities, So if it is found to be Legal than I will buy my ticket and if it is not then I won't, it's just that simple, but everyone seems to want to make it complicated with Issues, There has been no intentions here to Make this anyway shape or form an Illegal venture and I know for a fact from speaking with John that he told me that wasn't going to happen if he had anything to do with this.
His bottom line message to me and everyone wanting to know was it will be done 100% legal or not done at all.

So if anyone is thinking about doing it any other way than you are on your own. But I know John was calling some attorney to check on all the possible options to see if it was possible for this to happen. John will be posting on friday when he get's back before going back to Miami so maybe he will have some answers then.

rraymond · « **Reply #47 on:** April 29, 2009, 08:54:03 PM »

I have in front of me the November 1996 edition of Bass Player magazine. The subtitle of Jim Roberts' From The Editor column is Giveaway Grievances. He states that he had been asked why nearly all their foreign readers were excluded from the contests. The giveaways were, as of November 1996, open to readers in the United States and Canada, except for the province of Quebec.

Simply put, they have to comply with the law. He goes on to say that in most countries the laws governing raffles and contests are strict and are there to protect the participants of the contests. Unfortunately, the required expenditure in time and money to ensure compliance with the laws in all those jurisdictions made it impossible for them to offer the contest to all readers. They had to settle for compliance with the majority of reader locations.

For example, he stated that in Quebec, they would have to post a bond which guaranteed the value of the prize and the rules would have to be published in French as well as English.

Please, don't even try to put this headache on Alembic.

gyonnii · « **Reply #48 on:** April 29, 2009, 09:01:23 PM »

that is a different type of giveaway my friend when you offer outside a club or society and go public with it then you have to do many more things to comply with laws and reg's from all around instead of just one state, that much I read myself which it is called conducting a private Lottery.

gyonnii · « **Reply #49 on:** April 29, 2009, 09:16:41 PM »

This came off of google

How to Run a Raffle or Prize Draw

Lotteries, raffles and prize draws are some of the most popular types of fundraising, and for good reason - they require a minimal investment from participants (with a sizeable potential windfall) and can be quite profitable for charities and organisations too.

Rules and regulations for lotteries are stricter than other fundraising activities; however, do not let that put you off. You can seek advice from your local authority, the Gambling Commission, the Institute of Fundraising, or refer to the Gambling Act 2005 for legislative information.

Here's some general advice on setting up and running a lottery, prize draw or raffle:

Running A Private Lottery
By far the most popular type of lottery is a private lottery. Tickets may only be sold to one group of people, but this type of lottery does not need to be licensed by the Gambling Commission.
The most common types of private lotteries are:

Work lotteries
Residents' lotteries
Private membership club lotteries,... this would apply to US
So anyone who is worried that they are gambling you slleep better tonight, next stop IRS and institute of fundraising
the key word's here are private lottery, club members and tickets sold to only one group of people such as the Alembic club who were are all registered members of...Have no fear homework and research is being done and if it is legal it will be done, that is if you all want it to happen peace everyone and let's keep it that way between ourselves

(Message edited by gyonnii on April 29, 2009)

gyonnii · « **Reply #50 on:** April 29, 2009, 09:35:26 PM »

One more thing found rules on private lottery are as follow and states that it may not be advertised except (society) Alembic club among ourselves

Private Lottery Conditions
Private lotteries must comply with conditions relating to advertising which state that no advertisement for a private society, work or residents lottery may be displayed or distributed except at the society or work premises, or the relevant residence, or sent to any other premises.
Private lotteries must comply with the conditions set out in the Gambling Act to tickets. In summary these are:
A ticket in a private lottery may be sold or supplied only by or on behalf of the promoters
Tickets (and the rights they represent) are non transferable
Each ticket must state the name of the promoter of the lottery, the person to whom the promoter can sell or supply tickets and the fact that they are non-transferable.
The price paid for each ticket in a private lottery must be the same, must be shown on the ticket and must be paid to the promoters of the lottery before any person is given a ticket.

I am posting this information so that you will know that this is public information in our government

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #51 on:** April 30, 2009, 07:19:46 AM »

not that I would fore go them either

Just to be clear, I am in no way advocating breaking the law. I should have said I wouldn't run gleefully to pay the taxes (but I wouldn't lie either. Jeez the level of paranoia is running high here. Beware the thought police!

olieoliver · « **Reply #52 on:** April 30, 2009, 07:30:21 AM »

High and paranoia usually hang out in the same joints. (rimshot please).

OO

lbpesq · « **Reply #53 on:** April 30, 2009, 07:43:43 AM »

I can see it now:

Next case, State vs. Group of Bass Players. Bailiff, bring the defendants into the courtroom. Alembic club bass players, you have been charged with several violations of the law. How do you plead?

We're innocent. Our defense is that google said we could do it!

Somehow, I don't think this is going to work. Let me say it again, clearly, so everyone can understand. EACH STATE HAS ITS OWN LAWS. EACH COUNTRY HAS ITS OWN LAWS. Contrary to what Google, Wikipedia, Yahoo, Ask Jeeves, or any other internet search may claim, there is no one size fits all method. And I read it on the internet is not an accepted defense in a criminal case (which, by coincidence, is the type of law I've been practicing for over 20 years. You'd think with that much practice I'd get it right! lol). I don't doubt that something could probably be worked out that would allow most members (certainly not all as you guys have already cut out the guitar players) to participate. But it would take a significant amount of research and jumping through hoops the insure there wouldn't be any problems. Certainly more of an effort than I read it on the internet (the bathroom wall of the 21st century) or my friend has a friend who knows a the real estate lawyer who says it's o.k.

Bill, tngtjgo (the not going to jail guitar one)

David Houck · « **Reply #54 on:** April 30, 2009, 08:54:38 AM »

Greg and everyone;

This doesn't come up often here, as we seldom have discussions of this type, but in other discussion groups on the internet it is expected practice to cite sources. On political discussion boards, where discussion about laws are common, the phrase I found this on the internet would not be acceptable. Generally, one should name the source and, if found on the internet, link to it.

For instance, Greg was quoting Ideas Fundraising in his post number 29 above.

By linking to the site that is the source for the information that you are presenting, you make it possible for others to better ascertain the reliability and relevance of the information, and/or learn more about the subject matter.

gyonnii · « **Reply #55 on:** April 30, 2009, 09:16:24 AM »

What is it you say Bill lost causes are the one's worth fighting for well, if it can be legal and all the Bases cover then so be it, and if not when all the research is done and whether it is possible to find a common denominator within the group..then bottom line is that we all learned something new about Raffles, lotteries etc...and we are all that much smater or someone is going to get an Alembic for the price of a chance..so for me that is worth fighting for and is a good cause to help a fellow member.

I talked with John about all that was going on and he said if it can be done legally then if everyone is comfortable with it then we can do it but John said he will gladly post any form's Law sites government agreement etc... for all to see before a ticket would be sold...And if it can't happen than it can't and we will all just dream about what might of been but if it's anyone is needing help in the design area he would gladly help anyway he can.

mica · « **Reply #56 on:** April 30, 2009, 10:30:51 AM »

My initial reaction is that as nice as a raffle for a dream instrument sounds, I don't have the inclination to dedicate the necessary resources to get the legalities worked out. In fact, I just blew that entire budget on a new juicy truckload of wood.

So for now, it's back to dreaming.

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #57 on:** April 30, 2009, 11:35:45 AM »

Yeah, who could blame you Mica. It seems sad to me that a group of adults can't make a friendly agreement of this sort without having to to consult international law.

lbpesq · « **Reply #58 on:** April 30, 2009, 11:54:21 AM »

It is a shame that the law must poke its unwelcome nose into so many corners of our lives. But I regularly run into people who don't bother to ascertain the relevant laws and regulations, or proceed based on a friend told me or I read it on the internet. I call these people clients. Of course if someone wanted to do the necessary research and whatever tasks are necessary to make this work, or pay to retain an attorney experienced in this field, it could be a lot of fun - especially if a winner could pick their own instrument (maybe one of those melodic ones without the big cables?) I just know that I don't know the applicable law in this area, but I know enough to stay away unless someone who does know can put it together safely for all involved AND in such a way that we don't distract the elves in Santa Rosa from their appointed rounds.

Bill, tgo

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #59 on:** April 30, 2009, 12:15:08 PM »

You're correct Bill. Ignorance of the law is certainly never a valid excuse in a court of law. On the other hand, our society has reached a point where the law has become incomprehensible to the majority of the citizens which it governs. In some cases, it has violated the rules of common decency, trust, and the respect of fellow man. I think that when a club so enlightened and admirable as this one is unable to engage it what should be a such a simple proposition as a friendly raffle, that we have in some way failed in our mission of democracy, and thereby personal freedom. And the same be said of any other country and its philosophies who would so restrict its citizens.

/end rant