Author Topic: John Judge new custom design the Raven Resonator Bass (Read 1044 times)

bsee · « **Reply #30 on:** June 03, 2009, 02:27:00 PM »

To answer your last question, John, absolutely. You can have a traditional band with some rhythm section (guitar/bass/drums), then add a keyboard, second guitar, or horns as a lead instrument and make it work. There's no reason why that lead instrument couldn't be a piccolo bass, especially since it's just another guitar with a slightly different range and tonal character.

There are roles to be filled in a band scenario if the goal is a traditional style of rock and roll, and which instrument fills them is up to the taste and talent of the individuals. Expanding beyond rock and roll, worst case is you create a new style of music.

john_judge · « **Reply #31 on:** June 03, 2009, 02:32:33 PM »

Just wanted to hear a guitar players point of view about the Piccolo Idea before I decide what to build first. As far as the instruments role that will be up to who ever plays it and how they apply it, I just wanted to hear some voices on conceptional applications.
I mean I know how I will use the instrument, but just curious how others would do with such an instrument. This is why it is a thread and open for discussion, but on the other hand if some Bassist hates Piccolo's it still doesn't mean I won't build one anyway, it just means I might take into consideration some valuable points that might have been made prior to building and not waste time saying, I wish I thought of that before.
I am only 1 mind in a community of Bassist and even though it is my design I like hearing what other players have to say about the concept of Piccolo. The Bass will come to life one way or another but whether long scale or short or Piccolo remains to be seen. So if this thread goes a bit wildly astray that's Ok I will just sort through what valuable information appears that I might have overlooked during the design and the applications of the instrument.
To me application is just as important as the instrument itself it help's to develop all it's potential strength's and weaknesses prior to building

john_judge · « **Reply #32 on:** June 03, 2009, 02:36:12 PM »

BOB...Totally agreeable and thanks for your concerns

sonicus · « **Reply #33 on:** June 03, 2009, 02:51:42 PM »

I saw a show once that where Ron Carter was playing his acoustic Piccolo Bass along with a Bass Octet! Yes 9 acoustic Bass's. Wild ! He autographed the program book for me that I may still have somewhere.

john_judge · « **Reply #34 on:** June 03, 2009, 03:18:55 PM »

WOW! WOLF that must of been totally awesome to see, The most I have ever seen on stage in a band environment was 4.
Did everyone just take turns or was it just one large mass of sound and was everything and everyone distinguishable as far as being able to hear what everyone was doing?

lbpesq · « **Reply #35 on:** June 03, 2009, 03:44:09 PM »

John:

I recently picked up an Orion baritone guitar - I believe it is a 28 scale. I'm not sure where this fits into the great scheme of things vis-a-vis a piccolo bass. I've been messing around with it and slowly introducing it to my band. My initial attempt is using it on Sea of Joy, the old Blind Faith song, along with bass, drums, and guitar. I've only begun to scratch the surface, but it seems to travel in a space between the guitar and bass where no man (or at least no Bill, tgo) has gone before. I could definitely see the possibilities of instruments that hang out at this sonic altitude (as I expect a piccolo bass would). Especially in a band that plays fairly clean so you can distinguish the individual instruments, like jazz, or Grateful Dead style music.

Bill, tgo

john_judge · « **Reply #36 on:** June 03, 2009, 03:52:40 PM »

Thanks Bill, thats what I needed to know and by the way I have the uncut album mint version Vinyl of Blind Faith with the Nude girl and the airplane on the cover and I love that tune Sea of Joy, Winwood's vocal was awesome on the track! and I love the opening riff.
good luck with it and all the best to you, hope to see you in Cali.. John
Oh yeah by the way I got to jam with Ginger Baker once totally un planned I was in thoughbred music store in Tampa Florida and Ginger was there doing a drum clinic introducing his new line of Ludwig wood drum set so I was actually in this room where they had a stage setup in the store and he jumped up to play and I stopped what I was doing and listened a moment then I couldn't resist playing the opening lines to sunshine of your love with the Harmonies and he just busted out the drum parts it was awesome spontaneous fun for about 5 minutes, I was trying out an old 63 SG I believe, I thought about this because I love Ginger's pitter patter riffs at the beginning guitar part of Sea of Joy peace John out

(Message edited by john judge on June 03, 2009)

hb3 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 03, 2009, 03:57:38 PM »

Um, not to plug my own shit, but I think this is relevant to the discussion.

www.hb3.com/theveldt

All the tracks on the new cd are available (for free. just click to play). Piccolo bass is used as the lead and rhythm instrument on everything. The only place there's a six-string guitar is on tracks one and twelve.

So, for instance, track two: the rhythm's played on piccolo, the guitar melody and lead is played on piccolo.

We've been gigging.

H

(Message edited by hb3 on June 03, 2009)

sonicus · « **Reply #38 on:** June 03, 2009, 04:43:09 PM »

Hi john , I vaguely remember the 9 bass Ron Carter show (early 90's ?)but I do remember that there were arco players and pizzicato players.I also remember that the parts were in fact distinguishable. I was listening to identify the various counterpoint parts. it was indeed a treat for the ears mind and soul ! It really was a WOW thing ! I will try to find the program and report back .

john_judge · « **Reply #39 on:** June 03, 2009, 06:20:59 PM »

Thanks Wolf, counterpoint is a great thing in the hands of good players, nothing pertaining to classical but back in the day I use to listen to a group called Gentle Giant for a rockish flare they were the masters of counterpoint, I am not sure if you ever heard of them they were popular amongst musicians but not so popular in the charted world...songs like cogs and cogs, playing the game, etcc. they all played guitar violin, cello, keyboard played xylophone, all drums all vocals. sort of a poly fusion group with the nucleus always around counterpoint machined type grooves to create one feel

hb3 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 03, 2009, 06:33:07 PM »

My friend owns this company....

www.gentlegiantltd.com

dadabass2001 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 03, 2009, 08:57:21 PM »

The band Gentle Giant did their 35th Anniversary releases a couple of years ago, and I immediately snapped up 3 CDs Playing The Fool - Live, Octopus, and Three Friends and the DVD release of their video performances from the 70s. I believe Kerry Minear (keyboards, cello, vibse) was the principal composer, but Derek (lead vocals, saxes, some bass) and Ray Schulman (bass, trumpet, violin and guitar), Gary Green (guitar) and John Weathers (drums and vibes) could truly sound like an orchestra all by themselves. At one point in their shows they ALL play descant recorders, at another they ALL play drums. I'm glad I never has to roadie for them, enough delicate gear and miscellaneous percussion to to choke three camels . I love the compositional complexity, but then I also love good mountain music too. I must be a Virgo (or a 21st Century Schitzoid Man).
Mike

john_judge · « **Reply #42 on:** June 03, 2009, 10:04:55 PM »

Agreed mike they were the bomb!..I followed their career since day one with Octopus, Derek Shulman later went on to become the president of Atlantic records and was the person responsible for discovering John Bon Jovi in a New Jersey night club.
I was a big fan of the white cello and Knots, Kerry Minear was my favorite Keyboardist of that era next to Keith Emerson,
Glass house , Power & the Glory, & Octopus were a few of my favorites, but as far as their machine grooves & not to mention their vocal ranges go, Cogs & Cogs off the Power & Glory album and Playing the Game were cool to play and yet they could break it down into a simple minstrel groove, really wild writing !....John

Gosh Mike after talking about Gentle Giant I had to go and have a listen again and I popped in free hand...my conclusion is that it is very hard to have a favorite Gentle Giant song it's more about what mood you are in and what groove you feel like hearing, they about did it all, from Rock, Prog Rock, Orchestral and Minstrel Sweet stuff and the Bass line's were very challenging...Amen Brother

(Message edited by john judge on June 03, 2009)

dadabass2001 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 04, 2009, 05:04:33 AM »

I pulled out Playing the Fool - Live to verify the line-up, and it's going to work with me today. (along with my MP3s from last Saturday)
back on topic - I hope you can work out the details for the Raven Resonator, and get him/her built. In Native American mythology, isn't the Raven also known as the Trickster?
Mike

hb3 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 04, 2009, 07:30:38 AM »

I think I read somewhere that the guy in Miles Davis' 70s band had a piccolo bass w/ a whammy bar...what was his name? The guy who played on On The Corner, et al....