Author Topic: The Flax has left the building  (Read 1191 times)

dannobasso

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The Flax has left the building
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2009, 07:26:32 PM »
I find a very effective and therapeutic mode of operation is to type a response........ and here is the best part.......... don't post.  Not everyone cares what everyone thinks every time.
 Jeff was kind enough to travel to NJ to buy 2 of my cabinets and I wish him well in his musical, social, family and professional life.
 
Now to obsess on my bass in build progress.

bsee

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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2009, 11:02:30 PM »
When you read Dave's psycho-babble, it's usually there because some poster crossed a line that Alembic would prefer not be crossed in this forum. That's how he chooses to moderate in many cases rather than editing posts and suspending or banning users as might happen on some other forums. I didn't get to see Jeff's last post on China, but I have to say I was surprised to find that it had been deleted. I can only imagine the tone it must have had to elicit that response. Deleted posts don't happen very often around here, and the post that started this thread remains intact.  
 
It's hard to talk about the China thread, but I will try to be careful. We see so many people in society quick to take offense based upon the way they interpret what someone else has said. Words are an imperfect means of expressing thoughts and feelings. If you're going to take offense at something you read or hear, make sure you understand the meaning behind it first. Chinese doesn't necessarily mean All of China in the context of the thread, though one could interpret it that way, increasing the potential for offense to be taken. It might just mean some irresponsible company in China that I can't specifically identify. If Jeff had replaced the word Chinese with the name of some giant conglomerate, wouldn't you believe the level of offense taken would have been greatly reduced? This is just a hypothetical example, though, and I hope no one latches onto this to debate Jeff's initial intentions here.
 
I can't say exactly what the relationship is between Dave's views and those of Alembic management with regard to moderating these  boards, but I suspect them to be very much in sync. Mica, Susan and company have more important things to do than to directly moderate these boards. They've asked Dave to do this for them, and we all need to respect that. On occasion, they might have something to say, and I wouldn't be shocked to see a post from them on this thread now that some have called Dave's objectivity into question. There's also moderating going on, that many don't see, via email and even the occasional phone call. Being a senior member provides a historical context in which to view posts that approach or cross lines. It can help those around here to understand where someone is coming from and mitigate the harm that could be done by questionable statements. It's probably a fair part of why the China thread was allowed to remain active even though it was pushing limits. That said, senior members should have the experience to understand and respect Alembic's wishes to begin with. We shouldn't be the ones creating work for the moderator.  
 
Personally, I'd rather see less of the so-called psycho babble as well, but only because the important message is too easily lost among all the extra words. If the goal is a clean website, then it should be made clear to any poster when they violate Alembic's posting rules. They shouldn't have to read a parable and try to figure it out for themselves, or believe it to be off-topic and completely ignore it. Of course, that clarity can, and may, occur privately rather than via public post.
 
As I understand it, this is the Alembic website. These boards exist for reasons related to Alembic and their products, and Alembic wants to keep them friendly to anyone who might want to come here, even for purely business reasons. That means controversial topics unrelated to instrument construction or musical taste really don't belong (but bring on the set neck vs. neck through debates all you want). Personally, I support this philosophy 100%. Many of us lose sight of that periodically, especially those who have been around long enough to think of this as a place where friends come to chat.

grateful

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The Flax has left the building
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 02:27:42 AM »
I'll miss you Jeff, but I have to disagree with your opinion of moder Dave.

white_cloud

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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 03:40:51 AM »
This is sad to see but Jeff obviously feels very annoyed with elements of the club and has reacted strongly, it is his perogative of course.
 
I can see both sides of this as I have recently myself become disillusioned with the content here at the club from certain members who shall remain nameless (not through fear - theres just nothing to be achieved in going there!) so much so that I have tried to curtail my involvement in getting involved in petty and pointless arguments.
 
I also strongly dislike the elitist element here at the club, anyone who knows me will know my feelings that the best equipment that money can buy does not make the best musicians!
 
I am also not into trashing other countries/cultures at all - but I must say that it does seem to me that, as a primarily American forum, some US members are seriously hampered by a lack of real understanding of people & places outwith their own borders.  
 
Sorry folks but this is my honest perception and I dont expect it to go down well here - but I have to be honest in the way I see things or what is the point in posting anything at all!
 
Dave has a difficult job and in general does it very very well - but he isnt perfect and doesnt know everything.
 
However do any of us?
 
John.

serialnumber12

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The Flax has left the building
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2009, 05:43:24 AM »
Posting on a forum is like playing a Bass.........you must stay in the pocket!!!
keavin barnes @ facebook.com

hydrargyrum

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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2009, 06:34:53 AM »
I just feel sorry for Dave.  He does this job for free, and exposes himself to these sorts of personal attacks while clearly trying to do his best to maintain peace.  Sorry to be blunt but name calling is juvenile and uncalled for among adults in polite society.

bassilisk

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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2009, 08:23:41 AM »
Typically I stay the hell away from threads like this. I've found that honest and emotional discussion is difficult enough when you can have it face to face - trying to do it with written words is better left to people who are blessed with the gift of getting exactly what they're thinking and feeling on paper. I'm not one of those.
I do not personally know the principals in this discussion as I am a newbie here. I am here because I am into Alembic instruments and this is an Alembic forum - what better place to commiserate with people who can explain to me the finer points of owning these beautiful pieces?
 
Though I am a strong proponent of free speech, I also have to say that I feel there's a time and place to present potentially sensitive views. When I would go to the pub for some relaxing libations the unwritten rule in every one I've frequented is No politics, No religion. I myself have very strong views in each of these areas - I also know I'm not much interested in someone elses when I want to chill.
 
This is a bass Forum sponsored by a manufacturer for the use of fans of their product. I like to BS about other things as much as the next guy, but I don't see the point in presenting something I feel strongly about unless it applies to these basses. There are other places that are much more suitable for that kind of thing.  
 
Having said that, I thought this was a pretty calm place with a mature level of interaction. I found that refreshing vs the Talkbass' of the world.  
 
If something rankles you have the option of not posting. Just move on.
 
This is the first time I've ever addressed anything of this nature and you can be sure I won't do it again. I just love to play and talk about basses. Join me.....

hb3

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The Flax has left the building
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2009, 09:47:02 AM »

funkyjazzjunky

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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2009, 09:52:27 AM »
I hope you stay Jeff.
 
Perhaps we are overly sensitive to those who disagree with us.

terryc

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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2009, 09:53:37 AM »
flax..I think you have done this post to wind everyone up..if so then it is a pretty sick thing to do.
Maybe you get some perverse pleasure about putting threads on this forum that really do get people's back's up.The chinese one, the obama one and many more.
As I am from the UK I come here to escape all that shit with politics, exploitation and all the other bad stuff(which I am sure anyone on this forum could fix, they would) which is going on in the world.
There are plenty of other forums out there, some which actually love insults to the other writers!!
Policing is a necessity, if we didn't have it the place would be in anarchy and eventually this site would be shut down and all the wealth of information, the good friendships built, the mutual interest in all the members and the pics of all those superb Alembics would be lost.
If you don't like being censored or told off then go somewhere else, the number of times that I have seen members TRY to lighten the subject matter only to be ignored by you is huge, only for Dave to finally come in and put a stop to it..I mean do you really think he enjoys doing that??
Leave your opinions to the bar where over a few beers you can put the world to rights with people who know you well enough not to get offended and they can walk away and say 'he talks the biggest load of crap ever'
I supported you when you got blown off by bands because we support each other here even though we are separated by thousands of miles but in this case and many others my support for you has dwindled away.
Good luck to whatever you do in the future but one word of advice...Keep it to yourself

gare

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« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2009, 10:24:03 AM »
Can't we all just get along ?
Everyone has an opinion (and entitled to them), but they don't have to agree.
So many people both on and off this list take themselves too seriously, and tend to get wordy at times..including myself.
I think the world has become way to sensitive and takes offense to easily. (don't beat me,just my thoughts)
Don't think anybody is going out of their way to be offensive on this list, but merely other peoples perception(s).
 
Best of luck to you Jeff.  
 
I apologize in advance if anyone takes offense to my babbling.

phylo

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« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2009, 11:24:34 AM »
Dave,  
 
Just a note to let you know that I think you do a great job of moderating this site.  As you have had to state, likely to your chagrin, many times, this is a commercial site, not an open chat room.  
 
Arguments and disagreements are one thing.   Deliberately insulting, offending and otherwise irritating are a whole 'nother.  
 
To me you have always moderated with, well, moderation and done a fine job of respecting the users and hosts of this site.  
 
Thanks!

senmen

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« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2009, 11:46:25 AM »
Jeff,Dave,Guys,
 
I do respect Jeff as I do respect Dave as I do respect everyone in here. We are all humans and each of us is treated different in life.  
For me the Alembic forum is like going home to good friends and to talk about an interest we all love.
I did visit numerous forums in the past, not only bass or guitar related, but also watch and pen related, and I must say that our Alembic forum is one of the real peaceful places on earth.
 
Oliver (Spyderman)
P.S.
Flax, I still don?t have the 5string Tribute, but when I get it I would be very happy if you would still be around here to discuss that bass with you, the bass that had been planned by you!

3rd_ray

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« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2009, 05:12:05 PM »
Flax, my suggestion is to take a trip to Asheville and have a beer with Dave. Seriously. Asheville is a cool place and Dave is a cool guy (whom I've never met).  
 
My favorite post here.... stay in the pocket. That says it all  
 
Mike

hb3

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« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2009, 09:12:00 PM »
In a way, I'm impressed that politics would intrude even on a website like this. Apparently, the feeling that something is amiss is powerful and widespread.