Author Topic: I Wish Phil Would Play an Alembic (Read 248 times)

lbpesq · « **on:** January 26, 2008, 02:38:44 AM »

I just got back from seeing Phil & Friends at the Fillmore. Wonderful show, but, maybe it's me and my guitar ears, it seems as if I feel Phil more than hear him. His notes just don't seem as present and clear as I remember in the days of the Godfather and Osage Orange. His lower notes, especially, are difficult for me to clearly hear the melody. I'd sure like to hear him on an Alembic or any other bass that would allow his playing to come across more clearly and distinctly. (Of course I really don't know any other bass but Alembic that does it so well). Nevertheless, it was great to see him at the Fillmore. I've got tix for tomorrow's (or I guess it's really tonight's) Mardi Gras Ball show at the Bill Graham Civic in S.F. Yee haaa!

Bill, tgo

kilowatt · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2008, 06:39:46 AM »

Bill,
I both understand and agree with what you are saying. I have both basses (Alembic & Modulus), and find the Alembic Cuts through the mix much better than the Modulus. Don't get me wrong about the Modulus, I absolutely love the bass, but it does not match up to the Alembic in terms of tone. Thunder & Lightning was based on Phil's Godfather bass with the superfilter being rack mounted instead of onboard. I would love to see Phil Drop a few bass bombs with a new (or his old) Alembic.
Please let us know how the show is tonight. Enjoy!

Regards,
Pete

spose · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2008, 06:48:13 AM »

my favorite Lesh tone is from the early to mid 70's, Alembic with flat wounds. I also like the Modulus tone , but never liked his Ken Smith tone.

The biggest difference to my ears is from the smooth sound of the Alembic tone... then he got away from that and started getting more growl, string buzz and round wound tone, which is something I don't care for at all. I hear some recent board recordings that is all click and buzz, like the action is so low all you hear is click/buzz/growl.

yeah, that's okay. Phil can do whatever he wants since he's done it all.

if it wasn't for Lesh, a lot of us would still be searching for that sound

bassman10096 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2008, 07:40:36 AM »

The Alembic tones were very articulate and represented Phil's touch and timing very well. By comparison, the Modulus (no knock on Modulus) emphasizes the click and buzz (Spose put his finger on that.) where there used to be the sound of a lot of cool technique. Yup. It sounds like Phil Lesh playing a Modulus instead of an Alembic, but a lot of sound gets obscured. Oh well. If not for years of Phil's Alembic sound, I wouldn't know what was missing...

glocke · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2008, 08:51:38 AM »

I dont mind his modulus tone these days, it sounds alot better than what I heard in the 80's and 90's, but I wish he would play an Alembic also. Heck, if I thought he would play Id GIVE him my series I to play....

flaxattack · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2008, 08:56:09 AM »

id give him scarlet
i agree bill
its not clean sounding- maybe its not totally the bass, maybe its the rig too
we spoke about this with val when we saw him at bimbo's- damn i wish i could find a sdbd of that show
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briant · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2008, 12:32:59 PM »

While there are good points above (I also own a Modulus) I would point out that you can't rule out the sound man. Over the last 10 years or so I've noticed a horrible trend in live sound in big venues. The sound man likes to dial in the ~120Hz range of the bass and drop off everything above it pretty radically. So you wind up feeling the bass a lot but the note definition is gone. This really sucks when you're watching a really check out all our notes band like Dream Theater. John Myung (who is a fantastic player) can be felt and not heard. Very disappointing since he's usually ripping off 1000 notes a second and executing it flawlessly.

lembic76450 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 26, 2008, 02:33:35 PM »

I saw Phil in Providence last year and the sound was very muddy with little or no distinction to the notes. With that said though, I have always thought the bass sound on Without a Net was pretty nice and I believe that was his Modulus, though I could be wrong.

lbpesq · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2008, 08:49:45 AM »

Hey, I think just maybe Phil (or his soundperson) is lurking around here and saw this thread!!!! I was very surprised and pleased with his tone last night at the Mardi Gras Show at the Civic. This is a much larger venue than the Fillmore. On top of that, the room's acoustics are far worse than the Fillmore's. (The last time I saw a show at the Civic was Dylan, last year, and my wife & I walked out due to bad sound.)

Phil's sound system was far larger than Dylan's and up to the task of overcoming the bad acoustics. Anyway, Phil sounded GREAT! It sounded like someone had turned off the ultra-low frequencies and each of his notes were clear and distinct. I LOVE IT when I can hear what he's playing. A great show - Ivan Neville's band opened, then a wild multi-float parade right through the packed throng on the floor (I was sitting in the wrap-around balcony - I ain't 19 no more and this being my 2nd night in a row of Phil & Friends). Great set list:

9:21 -Set 1

One More Sat Nite
Brown-eyed Women
Pride Of Cucamonga
Cold Black Devil
Golden Road
Midnite Hour
Viola Lee> Caution> Viola Lee
10:38p
-----------

Set 2
Shakedown
Aiko*> PARADE!!
Truckin*
Jack Straw
Saint Stephen > Eleven jam>
Unbroken Chain
Fire on The Mountain
Know You Rider
Morning Dew>
Uncle John's Band

* w/Ivan Neville

# organ donor - special tribute
# Box of Rain
1:45am

(We left at about 12:45, during The Eleven, as the parking lot closed at 1:00. Next time I'm parking somewhere else!).

BIll, tgo

crobbins · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2008, 08:51:33 AM »

When I saw Phil& Friends at the begining of his tour at the Sant Barbara County Bowl, we were sitting dead center about 15 rows above the sound guy. You couldnt even hear the bass. The mix was horrible. The bass was getting buried by guitar and keyboards. I went home very unhappy.}:-(

Bradley Young · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2008, 09:33:52 AM »

Brian,

I think that bad sound stems from two things:

1) There is a natural tendency to adjust the sound with your eyes, rather than your ears (and ears need to be trained-- most people don't have a good idea what things should sound like).
2) There isn't really all that much proper pedagogy around being a sound man (and what there is is wrong on a lot of counts!). Many of the whys of doing things a certain way are not only lost to antiquity, they are wrong.

Let me give a great example:

In downtown Bellevue, they have a live concert series over the summer. They have an extensive PA system-- JBL mains and subs, big power amps, etc.

What always kills me?

They put the subs at either side of the stage. They comb filter like crazy, to the point that you can walk 1 foot into one of the comb filter areas, and the bass just... disappears. Of course, you're supposed to put the speakers on either side of the stage, for stereo, right? Wider dispersion? Bzzzt. Wrongo. But everybody does it. Never mind the sound! Everyone does it!

I won't even start in on shrieking tweeters pawned off as crystal clear highs.

I guess sound men are like drummers: it takes a pretty good one to be better than none at all.

Bradley

crobbins · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2008, 10:08:32 AM »

I did get a recording of that same show, and the mix was better.....

briant · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2008, 12:54:00 PM »

Very true about the lack of qualifications, Brad. Most sound men don't have any idea what they're doing and wouldn't know a good mix if it slammed them in the side of the head. However it does seem to be a more recent trend with the thumping just feel it bass mix for larger shows. I don't recall in the past that every friggin' show had that same obnoxious mix. It really is a good way to turn me off from going to see big venue concerts. If I'm paying $100+ for a ticket I want to be able to hear what the musicians are playing!

hb3 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2008, 01:20:03 PM »

To me, audio in general is being destroyed by rampant use of over compression, but I see the point here being made also. It's all about bludgeoning you now, almost like no one can hear any more, as hearing something involves being present in the place you are and paying attention. No one does that anymore. There's no dynamics. Most music I listen to makes me want to tear my eyes out. Or ears. Or something.

crobbins · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2008, 02:37:24 PM »

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THANKS PHILSISION FROM PHILZONE

i have posted a few 1/26/08 video clips on you tube ... quality is about what you'd expect for a compact camera smuggled in ... but it's something that lets things be relived!

this q has a smokey room r&b-heavy feel to it ... which works because the room usually is smokey

- shakedown #1: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OcKIiFnVWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OcKIiFnVWI[/url]

- shakedown #2: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clJvH1pCkU0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clJvH1pCkU0[/url]

- iko #1: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx6x-67ouGk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx6x-67ouGk[/url]

- iko #2: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lbo8_XkKKs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lbo8_XkKKs[/url
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