Sunn Concert Bass Head(continued)

[tmoney61092]

this is a follow up to this thread
 
http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/85671.html?1284175870
 
well come to find out, my drummer also has the 2x15 cabinet that came with the head that he had hiding under a blanket. unfortunately, both of the speakers are blown because his son decided to have a party some years back and had the volume way too high.  
 
i'm thinking about offering him $175 for both because he does need some money, leave the head there(because i do have another rig) but be able to take it with me if some unfortunate events occure, and then take the cabinet with me and get the speakers replaced. so here's my question, what brand/model speakers should i get that will have the most bang for the buck? i'm not really trying to put a ton of money into this since it'll mostly be a back up to my normal rig/used at small venues or parties.
 
thanks
 
~Taylor

[David Houck]

This is out of my field of expertise (not that I even have a field of expertise) but I'm thinking that the right speaker for the cab has a lot to do with the design of the cab; dimensions, porting, etc.  And since you're using it with a particular head, I'm also guessing that the speakers should match up with the watts and ohms of the head as well.  So perhaps your starting point would be to find out what kind of speakers originally came in the cab, get the specs on those speakers, and then see what else is comparable.

[bigredbass]

I was one of those guys that in the old days when it seemed the rage to update cabs like this to EV's or JBLs, that was just what one did.
 
If it were me today, I'd feel differently.  Bass amps now have progressed so far past those rigs, now I'd 'restore' them to get that sound they originally had with Jensens I suppose, or find 'update' speakers from that time.  'Orange' frame JBL's?
 
Of course, when I remember lugging those heavy, underpowered monsters around (WHY did I think I needed TWO folded-18 bins with a 200 watt head??), now I remember why I feel slightly queasy when I see a Coliseum or a Peavey Festival in a used instrument store.  
 
J o e y

[sonicus]

Dave , Here you go ; Thiele/ Small Parameters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small

[tmoney61092]

don't get me wrong Joey, i'd love to restore this amp, clean up the head and everything, i guess i'm just wanting to do the option that's the cheapest, i love the sound of the head through the 18 i play through and am dying to hear it through the 2x15's. this rig would also be a lot more convenient to transport than my main rig which is always a plus :-D.
 
just found these, guy is selling off all his Sunn gear and is selling the speakers seperate, seem like a good idea to go for them?
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Electrovoice-EVM-15B-/270665194232?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f04e71af8
 
~Taylor

[sonicus]

Taylor   , These !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gauss-4582-15-Speakers-/280580391443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153e50213#ht_500wt_922
 
       As far as old school goes GAUSS was KING !

[tmoney61092]

thanks Wolf, that certainly would be awesome to have, but buying those and the amp would drain my bank account :-(
 
~Taylor

[jacko]

Taylor - I'd go for the EVs.
 
Graeme

[LMiwa]

Watch the shipping on the EVM's. If he's going to charge you $50 for shipping them both, that's just silly. At least make sure the second one ships free.
 
Loch

[tmoney61092]

I sent him a message and he claims that's the actually shipping price and that he's making no money on shipping
 
~Taylor

[edwin]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the actual shipping. Shipping costs have dramatically increased in the last few years. While the Gauss speakers would be fun, they are less efficient and a little bit more fragile. EVMs are really hard to blow up and have a nice sound. I have a EV designed TL 606 box that I've had a McCauley in for a while and am going to load it up with an Eminence Deltalite 3015. From what I've heard, it's a big improvement on the JBL/EVs of yore. I love those old drivers but want something that goes a little deeper with a bigger xmax.
 
I'm also intrigued with the fEARful cabs being touted at Talkbass.

[sonicus]

I recently did A and B  testing between   15 inch GAUSS 4582 and 15 inch JBL K140 . Both were in separate identical  Alembic A15 cabinets.
 As a power source a Yamaha P-2200 Amplifier , Each of the Speakers were driven through discreet channels . The signal source was An HP signal generator set at aprox. 1 volt . During a slow  Manual SINE  wave sweep from  4Hz to 20khz  It was quite apparent how much better  THe GAUSS was able to handle the  lower frequency ranges then the JBL with out breaking up  with distortion . The Gauss really came alive @  Wattage over  
 100 WATTS RMS with still no problems @ 41 HZ ( low  E) , at over 200 Watts RMS I had to stop the test with the JBL because  I did not want to Damage  it.  
The Gauss can take it! . The JBL K140  sounds nice  at lower power ranges then the Gauss but  is more fragile then the Gauss in my opinion .  However the Gauss is not as efficient as the JBL but can really  Hammer those high wattage lower frequencies .  Where they might be fragile Is if you drop them because they can be prone to voice coil rub due to misalignment as a result. They have huge heavy magnet assemblies.
       
          As far as EV's go I love the EV 10's They are my Favorites  at the moment because of their staccato articulation that I like .I have them in MESA BOOGIE Road  ready Cabinets.
 
 
         Sonic Regards !!

[elwoodblue]

I'm talking to my speaker guy and he says average cross country usps parcel post shipping for a 25 lb 15 speaker runs him about 30-35 per speaker...55-60 for priority shipping.
 If you get a good deal on the EV's then I guess that would even out the total costs.
 
I have a couple old 15 EV's that my friend is reconditioning, I'll have him sweep test and evaluate them once they are done.
I might be willing to part with them for a reasonable price if the ebay listing gets too spendy.

[sonicus]

Hi elwoodblue ,    Yes , Old EV 15's can be great speakers.  
I once had a pair of  EV SRO speakers  in an old Sunn cabinet.  
It was the first decent Bass cabinet that I ever owned , I think I was 16 when I found it in the  want ads  section of the  San Francisco  Examiner  back in the early 70's. The Guy that had it was willing to deliver it since I did not have a car so he dropped if off while my Father was at  Work.  When My Dad came home it was still in the living room!   I will never forget the face he made !  He liked it even more  
when I told him I still needed an  AMP . Three weeks later I had my first decent Amp ; A Black Face  Fender Dual Showman that  was sold to me by Don  Wehr @  Don Wehrs Music CIty ! He used to say  If I can't get , you don't want it !    
Those were the  Days _________       LOL _____1972!

[edwin]

Hey Wolf! Thanks for the info and the experiments! That pretty much confirms my experience with Gauss speakers. I still have one 12 that functions.  
 
Your first rig sounds like one I had when I was a student at UC Santa Cruz. There was a guy who wanted to go off to Tahoe to bet on the Super Bowl so I paid him $100 cash for a Showman and a double 15 Altec cab with SROs (and a ridiculous horn). It was OK, but frustrating in that it didn't get loud enough to keep up with my bandmates' Twins. At that time I had a McIntosh 2105 sitting at home in Boston, but couldn't afford to ship it out.
 
When I left school to go back home, I gave away the cabinet and then sold the amp in Boston for $100, so it all worked out.