Author Topic: Gibson factories raided (Read 479 times)

fmm · « **on:** August 26, 2011, 06:37:09 AM »

Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

terryc · « **Reply #1 on:** August 26, 2011, 06:49:31 AM »

So where does Alembic fit in here, I mean every bass & guitar is made from the most exotic woods around...are they due for a call from the federal dept??
Personally although I am an advocate of preservation and re cycling this does seem overkill and hypocrisy as the USA goverment do not recognise global warming is a result of CO2 emissions from the millions of cars there is in the USA

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #2 on:** August 26, 2011, 08:36:26 AM »

This was a raid by the Fisheries and Wildlife Service, a completely different agency than that which manages car emissions (The EPA). It's congress who determines the extent to which the EPA can manage such concerns, and that comes down to who gets elected. (Not to get too political here, just saying the voters can influence that choice.)

The documentation required sounds pretty excessive to me. I can produce documents to show when my guitar was built, but there's no way I can show the provenance for the 5 different types of wood that were used in it. I don't want to see destructive logging practices, but it certainly discourages travel with high quality instruments.

hb3 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2011, 10:09:48 AM »

Some things just go too far....

rustyg61 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2011, 03:38:48 PM »

After they finish taking our guns then they will come after our guitars & basses!

David Houck · « **Reply #5 on:** August 26, 2011, 04:57:44 PM »

Some of the comments in this thread are straying too close to the restriction on politics in the posting guidelines. Please keep the posting guidelines in mind.

lidon2001 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2011, 05:00:10 PM »

Gibson's response states the reason they were raided was that the DOJ, or whoever, decided to start interpreting a foreign country's law, India, and came to the conclusion that Gibson was in violation of the DOJ's, or whoever's, interpretation of that foreign country's law. India found no such violation, else they would not have allowed Gibson to buy and ship the wood out.

I hope that clears things up.

www.gibson.com

Edit to add link for Gibson's Response. No comment intended (sorry Dave!)

(Message edited by lidon2001 on August 26, 2011)

rustyg61 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 26, 2011, 05:28:44 PM »

I couldn't get your link to open, so try this one - http://www.gibson.com/absolutenm/templates/FeatureTemplatePressRelease.aspx?articleid=1340&zoneid=6

tubeperson · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2011, 02:16:45 PM »

Not only does it potentially concern Alembic, but what about each of us that may hold instruments from a prior era, how do we validate the sourcing of the woods used in contruction of our axes? This seems to be too easy a grab for any beaurocracy. After all they are confiscating the stuff! We may not love Gibson i.e (I do own a Les Paul after all) but where does it stop? And why such selective enforcement? Is Spector next if Stu Spector has an old piece of brazilian rosewood, or even if he reclaims an old piece of same? I think we all should be concerned about this. I understand the forum wants to keep volatile polical views to a minimum, but curtailing our concern and our ability to speak out against this here would be a very big mistake. Don't Tread on Me may mean more now than ever before.

rustyg61 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2011, 02:58:42 PM »

Right On Steve! I don't think there is a person on this forum who would side with the government on this issue, regardless of which party you support!

David Houck · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2011, 07:10:12 PM »

[moderator's edit: text deleted for political content in violation of posting guidelines]

(Message edited by davehouck on September 01, 2011)

hb3 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:52:47 AM »

That's not talking about politics?

I think there's one thing you're missing in this case...I almost don't want to mention it, but just for your understanding as well as everyone else's...

It doesn't appear to be a question of illegally harvesting wood, but rather the way the wood has been processed. Basically, India has rules stating that Indian workers must treat the wood in some way before it's exported; they aren't just supposed to ship raw lumber. In other words, the Indian government is trying to preserve labor rights for their citizens.

I think this has a lot to do with why this story is resonating with the public. The Indian government is doing what the American government SHOULD be doing, which is trying to protect its workers. With American unemployment the way that it is, there's a certain irony in the US siding with a foreign government to preserve the rights of their workers at the expense of American labor; and this irony is compounded by the degree to which American jobs have been outsourced to -- guess where? -- India.

Of course, this general process predates the current American government, but it doesn't seem to have improved in the last three years.

That's all.

pas · « **Reply #12 on:** September 01, 2011, 07:25:46 AM »

Dave,

You may be the moderator, but your previous post is frankly beyond the pale...a steaming pile of leftist tripe. Apparently, much like the federal government, the policies you espouse - not talking politics in this forum - apply only to those ruled and regulated by the authorities, ie: yourself in this instance. Hypocrite.

And while we're at it, I quote from your paragraph #7: And, for what it's worth, since it's been raised, I absolutely support the government on this issue. If you would be so kind Dave, please point out exactly where anyone solicited your support or opposition to the government on this issue. Oh, that's right...it's your perogative to get on the soapbox and advocate at will. I guess advocates for the redistribution of wealth (social justice) and specious science (environmental justice) don't need to adhere to the rules they advocate for the proletariat.

All Alembicians are equal...but some are more equal than others, eh?

811952 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 01, 2011, 07:52:19 AM »

I would suggest that as long as Dave's moderation is agreeable to Susan, Mica, Ron and company, that's really all that matters. I'm not paying to use this site and there are no banner ads..

It's a fact that we are quite a mixed bag of nuts and ideologies here. That it is irrelevant to our discussions of music and instruments is why this forum is such a nice little island among the vitriol of the internet. I may or may not heartily disagree with someone about politics here, so why even go there when we've got so much that we love in common?

Peace out!

John

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #14 on:** September 01, 2011, 08:13:24 AM »

Dave is human like the rest of us. I think he does a pretty damn good job of keeping things civil and on track, but just like the rest of us he isn't perfect. He may have said a bit much about his views (which even he acknowledged in that post), but I believe he acted with the best intentions in a situation that is very emotionally charged for most of us. I have many friends from the opposite end of the spectrum of my own political views. I may disagree with them, but it doesn't mean that we can't speak civilly. After all, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.