Author Topic: Jerry playing The Harder they Come.  (Read 668 times)

pace

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2014, 01:00:54 PM »
Coltrane and Andrews are apples and oranges, Dave!!! You should know better, and besides,... Elvin Jones never was one for the marching powder shuffle!!!!.... ;)

edwin

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2014, 01:09:20 PM »
I wasn't really responding to what you wrote particularly. It was the concept more generally. I kind of get the sense that for people who really know one artist's material that the difference between difference versions can seem a lot more significant than to someone who sees it all from outside. Not a dig on Jerry, but to a lot of people, it all sounds the same. I get it, but that's because I love Jerry. However, there was a time when I was so sick of the marching powder effect that I did write it all off as sounding the same. But your points are well taken.  I don't think anyone is trying to bait anyone and I really wish we could all have this discussion in person over a couple of pints! Not to get too maudlin, but I do think we're all family!
 
I have a hard time playing this song with people who only play it because Jerry did or they like soloing over it and have no clue about what the message is. I think the message is important (I used to play in a band where the writers wrote some obscure songs, so it became kind of a joke, where every song was reduced to man's inhumanity to man or Dan's (our keyboard player with mad mechanic's skills) inhumanity to van. Or sometimes van's inhumanity to Dan. But I digress). I'll never forget playing at a very tony country club and our singer called out Inner City Blues. After the set I told her that she was courageous to bring such a message right to the face of power. She had no idea what I meant and said she thought it was a song everyone liked because it has a good groove. It might be because of this kind of unawareness that music has lost its power to effect change. Or at least to make people think that it does.
 
Julie Andrews in Trane's band! Awesome!
 
But, the most important question still remains after all this THTC discussion, what kind of strings? :-)

David Houck

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2014, 01:17:18 PM »
 
 
I love the intensity of Jones and Garrison in the video.  It's just amazing how tuned in to each other they all are.

pace

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2014, 01:23:41 PM »
There's pints on my end of the conversation, Edwin... So feel free to indulge!... I don't consider this 'drinking alone' and neither should you.... Lol

jazzyvee

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2014, 03:55:49 PM »
In terms of how we, (Musical Youth), deal with covers is like this.
The lead singer Dennis Seaton has his own vocal style which he is recognised for and does not feel any desire or need to attempt to sing like anyone else regardless of the song he is performing. In terms of the music side of things we try to keep close enough to the original track so that there is authenticity to what we are doing.  
 
However with most reggae songs the primary vibe of a track is in the bass line with support for the drums so if I changed the bass line too much or the drummer was playing steppers instead of a one drop beat, even though it may sound good, it would not sound like the right song or version of a song regardless of what the rest of the band were doing. And...... since we are a reggae band that would be a crazy thing to do unless it was for deliberate effect.  
 
At the moment our live shows are themed When Reggae Was King so the aim is to celebrate some of the great artistes and music from mainly the 70's and very early 80's.  
On a personal level my primary bass influence for reggae is the wailers Aston Barrett and whenever I play a track from the wailers I try to capture as much of his melodic feel and tone as I can from the version we are covering. The good thing is that many of the wailers later songs have much earlier recorded versions both live and studio, which I study and utilise to add variety to the bass lines.  
 
I have listened to loads and loads of reggae bands and in my view most of the ones who are not getting the vibe going are failing because of the same reason... and that is, they think that because it is just a few simple repetitive chords, it is so simple and does not warrant attention to detail. So what they play is what they think reggae sounds like rather than listening properly and playing what it does sound like which usually results in with far too many notes and rhythms being played.  
 
Then there is Steely Dan who are a law unto themselves in whatever genre they delve into and their Haitian Divorce is a perfect example of taking a simple genre and producing a superbly complex and musical track that only they could come up with. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWYchJI0Cv8
 
I'm very new to Jerry's music and know little about it but from what I hear Jerry is doing a version of the song in the style of the Jerry Garcia band and not trying to do a reggae version of the song.
 
 
Jazzyvee
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http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

lbpesq

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2014, 06:00:56 PM »
... Jerry is doing a version of the song in the style of the Jerry Garcia band and not trying to do a reggae version of the song.
 
In the words of the late great Ed McMahon: You are correct, sir.
 
Bill, tgo

pauldo

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2014, 04:36:14 AM »
And the string endorsement brand is. . . . . . .  
 
There was an interesting article in The Sun with Pete Seeger that spoke to what was mentioned earlier - it isn't so much about how it sounds, it is about the message.

jazzyvee

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2014, 08:22:20 AM »
No idea what the string endorsement brand is yet. I found a company on like that you fill your details in and they apparently seek to find you and endorsement deal.
Will let you know.
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

hydrargyrum

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2014, 07:37:31 PM »
I think this conversation can have a positive meaning for fans of both versions.  Jerry must have thought that the song was meaningful, and he respected it enough to bring it to others.  Some people would probably never had heard it otherwise. I'm sure we can all agree that music preference is a matter of taste.  Personally I prefer Louis Armstrong's version of Oops, I did it again to Brittany Spears' version.  But for some people, they may find the inner workings of their heart to be stirred .  And who am I to say that it's wrong?

kmh364

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2014, 06:35:21 AM »
I LOVE Jerry and the Dead, including the many spin-offs, as well as Reggae, especially Jimmy Cliff, Peter Tosh and Bob Marley!  
 
Jerry loved to cover other artists in his own inimitable style. It was a way for him to pay tribute to those songwriters/performers, as well as to serve as an an outlet for his insatiable musical appetite. He simply performed songs that he loved when freed of the confines of the Dead!  
 
His versions are just as valid as the originals, albeit in different ways. This is why they make all flavors: Vanilla, no matter how good, doesn't appeal to everyone and gets boring after a while, even for afficionados.
 
Enjoy!

edwin

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2014, 09:39:20 AM »
I hope none of my comments were interpreted as a value judgment about either version. I enjoyed them both quite a bit. Dennis' interpretation and energy are excellent! I know it's highly unlikely, but if you guys ever did a US tour, I'd be there in a minute!
 
As far as the Jerry version goes, let's just say that us deadheads are Notoriously Picky?! We all have arguments for our favorite versions and will insist that each one is substantively different.

pace

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2014, 08:08:25 PM »
Still caught up on the relative merits....
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrnZSLwfzVs
 

 
... and to echo Edwins' sentiments, Its not a value judgement by any means.....

edwin

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2014, 09:08:47 PM »
Oh, geez. Even Michael Franti had something to say about this.
 

jazzyvee

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2014, 12:52:24 AM »
Interesting you show eric clapton's version of I shot the sheriff because my favourite version is the one from The Wailers Burnin' album and it really irritated me when Eric omitted the part in the song where Bob sings  If I am guilty I will Pay....... I think it is a great line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QRWJjmGoZBA#t=152`
 
Since Eric's version became a hit everyone else omits it too even Bob.( though I don't know if he had already changed his version for live shows before eric covered the track)  
I used to be in a reggae band in the mid 70's with some guys in my neighbourhood and we always played the full version from the Burnin The Wailers version.
jazzyvee
 
(Message edited by jazzyvee on May 21, 2014)
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

lbpesq

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Jerry playing The Harder they Come.
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2014, 08:44:42 AM »
Just take a take a brief detour related to Jazzy's last point, I have a pet peeve along the same lines with the Dead's version of Dylan's When I Paint My Masterpiece.  The Dead leave out the bridge couplet from the original which, IMHO, is one of the all time great lines in rock 'n roll, and pure Dylan:
 
Sailing 'round the world in a dirty gondola,
Oh to be back in the land of coca cola
 
And, of course, whenever I hear a Dead-style band do the song, they too leave it out.
 
Bill, tgo