Author Topic: Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass (Read 1079 times)

hankster · « **Reply #30 on:** November 06, 2014, 06:47:58 PM »

I love the Rob Allen basses. But nothing will sound like an upright except an upright. You can get a decent sound out of an electric upright if you adjust your right hand technique to cause the strings to vibrate perpendicularly to the body of the bass rather than parallel, it kills the sustain and increases the rapidity of the decay, but it's still not quite right.

edwin · « **Reply #31 on:** November 06, 2014, 07:11:51 PM »

I don't have a horse in this race, but I will relate a story. I heard an interview with a bass player who got an audition with a famous jazz drummer (Art Blakey, maybe?) and brought by a bunch of recordings from shows he'd done. He told the drummer that he had an upright and an electric upright. He played some shows from New York and then some from a tour he did in Europe. The drummer asked him why he didn't use the upright in New York like he did in Europe. Except that Europe was the electric and New York was the upright.

hammer · « **Reply #32 on:** November 06, 2014, 07:16:00 PM »

Looking at a possible Rick Turner and a Rob Allen. To what does the fretboard wood and whether it is lined or unlined have an impact on tone.

Glynn · « **Reply #33 on:** November 07, 2014, 01:24:54 AM »

I am going to be mildly outspoken here to say if your potential folk/bluegrass band like your playing, then it shouldn't matter what bass you use. They do sound a bit too traditionalist and hung up on trying to look and sound like the past. As I keep saying, it should be about the music. As an example, I have introduced Acoustic Electric Bass to an Appalachian Dance side and also a Morris Dance side as well as folk groups. I also use my Alembic Orion with a New Orleans Trad. Jazz band I have played with for many years.
I admit that I have had some anti reaction from people who want things 'as they were'but I persevere and try and play at the volume they expect and also I try to get a similar sound to what they are used to (careful use of right hand fingerstyle and two to the bar, not massive fast fours, helps this ).
I have found that when you are accepted it is a real bonus - and that is as a result of your musicianship - which it is what it is about.
If your group leaders are insisting on something and not taking advantage of your good playing, then I say - ditch 'em!.
(Was that too outspoken?)
Glynn

pauldo · « **Reply #34 on:** November 07, 2014, 06:10:54 AM »

Can't argue with what Glynn said.
I play my Alembic in a swing band - they had an upright player originally; I came in with my Distillate, rolled the treble off, kept things round and 'bumpy', locked in with the drummer and we drive! - no complaints.

hammer · « **Reply #35 on:** November 07, 2014, 07:46:01 AM »

The group leader is fine with anything that sounds a bit more acoustic than my Alembics which I agree didn't go that well with the group sound.

The question above is really coming from me. I borrowed a Rob Allen last week, took it to a practice and they loved the sound and how well it blended in. It certainly wasn't the sound of an upright but played with the strings with which it was strung it nicely melded with the rest of the group (who not only do what I'd refer to as electrified bluegrass, similar to T by T, Grisman, etc., but want to play at least one set of acoustic tunes dominated by old time blues players (e.g., Blind Lemon Jefferson, Rev. Gary Davis, Light'n Hopkins, etc.). The RA I borrowed was a model with an ebony fretboard and no markings. I'm currently looking at possibly purchasing a fretless RA (out of town that I wont be able to play before purchasing) that has a rosewood fretboard and fretmarkers and was just wondering if this is going to result in a tone that is significantly different and/or if the tone of a Turner would be a significantly different.

StephenR · « **Reply #36 on:** November 07, 2014, 09:31:24 AM »

I think the strings are going to have more of an effect on the tone than whether the fretboard is lined or not. Ebony should have a slightly different sound than Rosewood, and of course a different feel on a fretless, but I think the type of string will make the biggest difference. What kind of strings were on the RA you borrowed?

The Turner basses come strung with TI Acousticore strings which have a nylon core wrapped in phosphor bronze. They have a softer attack then conventional bass strings and if you choose a fretless Ren bass you can get a lot of mwah going. The fretted Ren's get some mwah, too, but not as much and to be honest if you use Acousticore strings the sound of the frets is not very prevalent.

I tried putting round wound strings on my Ren. The tone was punchier but it still sounded like a Renaissance bass. I prefer the Acousticore strings, though, much more unique tone and they are incredibly touch responsive. You can coax a lot of different tones out using your hands. They do take a bit of getting used to, though, since they tend to roll a bit under your fingers until you get the hang of them.

I also encounter a lot of resistance to the idea of using something other than an upright in an acoustic band. A lot of guys just want the traditional look of an upright but some also want the upright sound and of course if they want you to use a bow sometimes it isn't going to happen with a RA or Turner bass.

edwardofhuncote · « **Reply #37 on:** November 07, 2014, 11:10:59 AM »

Another helpful hint on Acousticore strings, particularly on fretless basses... sand the bronze windings with ultra-fine sandpaper, then polish with 0000 steelwool. Clean regularly with FastFret. (or something like it)

A fretless Renaissance bass is one of the coolest most organic bass sounds out there. (IMO-E of course) I use one regularly when playing those old-time blues tunes with my cousin's ensemble. I'm totally biased toward Turners, but that said, Rob Allen basses are extremely fine instruments as well, equal or surpassing quality.

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #38 on:** November 07, 2014, 10:57:04 PM »

How many bluegrass players oes it take to change a lightbulb?

Four. One to change the bulb and three to complain it's not real because it's electric.

Peter

mario_farufyno · « **Reply #39 on:** November 08, 2014, 05:30:47 AM »

Have you ever tested Carvin's AC-40f? Mahogany body, Ebony unlined fingerboard and that piezzo tone. Not a perfect accoustic string bass tone but fairly close with nylon flats, not distant from Godin's tone but much more affordable (not tryed Rob Allen's or Rick Turner's to compare it with).

hammer · « **Reply #40 on:** November 08, 2014, 07:07:52 AM »

The Rob Allen I borrowed had the TI acousticore strings on it. Haven't tried the Carving but if I can find one I'll take a look. The Turner I was looking at was sold before I got a chance to check it out. So at this point its down to a 34 5-string fretless Rob Allen MB 2 or a RA fretless Mouse 30. I had never played fretless before the last practice but found the long scale RA I borrowed a lot easier to adjust to than my recent move from 4 to 6 string. Wondering if a short scale fretless would be more difficult to play. Anyone ever had experience with one?

5a_quilt_top · « **Reply #41 on:** November 10, 2014, 10:59:19 AM »

TI Acousticore strings will sound radically different on a Rob Allen than the LaBella nylon tape wound strings that are recommended.

IMO, the LaBella tape wounds are critical to getting closer to approximating upright tone / vibe with an RA bass.

However - the Acousticores do sound real good on the Turner.

Re: lined vs. unlined fretboard: according to Mr. Allen, the strings and the woods used for the neck and body will have the greatest influence over tone, with the neck wood having the most influence. He advised me that the tonal difference between a lined and an unlined fretboard is imperceptible.

sonicus · « **Reply #42 on:** November 10, 2014, 11:48:28 AM »

I liked a lined fingerboard for those well intonated upper register double and triple stop glissandos .

hammer · « **Reply #43 on:** December 07, 2014, 03:40:14 PM »

Ended up purchasing A Rob Allen Fretless 5 string in walnut. The fact that over the last month I've had the chance to play a borrowed RA but not a Turner (and loved it) was the deciding factor. It should arrive here Wednesday. Special thanks to Gregory (edwardofhuncote) who provided great advice and put me in touch with the seller.

hammer · « **Reply #44 on:** December 07, 2014, 03:48:01 PM »

Ended up purchasing a 5-string Rob Allen MB-2 in walnut. The fact that I've had a chance to play one I had the opportunity to borrow for the last month (and the group likes the tone) and feel very comfortable with it tipped the scales over a Turner. It should arrive Wednesday. Special thanks to all who provided ideas and advice especially Gregory (edwardofhuncote) who put me in touch with the seller.