Author Topic: Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass  (Read 1079 times)

cozmik_cowboy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7341
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2014, 09:24:50 PM »
I have played a number of ABGs in stores, just for Ss & Gs, but only 4-strings & only unplugged; by far the best (indeed, perhaps the only good) E string sound was on a cedar-topped Breedlove.  Alas, they have discontinued the one I played (& I disremember the model designation), but I would expect the current Solo model to be similar.
I imagine a lower string would only exacerbate the issue.
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2695
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2014, 11:25:02 AM »
Not to be a cynic, but my experience of 'leaders who insist' on stuff like this tend to keep insisting on other micro-management music stuff as well.  
 
Best of luck!

edwardofhuncote

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8032
  • ◇-◇-◇-◇-◇
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2014, 11:26:52 AM »
Hammer, been there. Grew up in Appalachia, the veritable cradle of bluegrass/old-time music, where they really frown on plugged-in basses of any kind. =) I started as an upright player and switched to bass guitar later.  
 
The good news is, there's quite a selection to choose from, and at several price points, Rob Allen, and Rick Turner being examples of the upper-middle. If you're expressly looking for an acoustic bass-guitar, then neither of those help much. Godin also made a very nice semi-acoustic, piezo bridge equipped bass guitar that actually produced audible sound, at least enough to practice with. Unfortunately, it feeds back at high volume, as will most any ABG.
 
Now here's the sticking point for the band. NONE of the above really sound like an upright bass. True, you can get some of that upright inflection with hollow bodies, tapewound strings, fretless fingerboards, and some clever muting techniques, but it's difficult to get that upright bass sound even out of an electric upright. If their sensibilities about acoustic bass are based on the visual, then that's a losing battle IMO. Really, the trouble with acoustic basses, even and especially uprights, is physical; they are very hard to amplify. There is always a balance to be struck between quacky piezos and boomy mics, the result is often less than ideal.    
 
On a personal note, I have somewhat successfully integrated Turner Renaissance basses (fretted & fretless) into several folk-bluegrass ensembles, even a neo-oldtyme string band, but the traditionalist element here is intensely anti-electric. Of course, YMMV.  
 
Good luck in your search... they are loads of fun! I too have often wondered if Alembic had any interest in building a piezo-equipped bass, maybe even a combination of magnets and piezo bridge. I'd love to hear their take on piezo electronics with low-pass filters and q-switches.

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2014, 11:36:43 AM »
Somewhere on this forum is a build record of a guitar that included piezos built into the bridge. It was a thing of beauty. A search should reveal it. I would imagine that now they've done it once, the second time should be easier.

pace

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1139
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2014, 12:24:55 PM »
Edwin, I know you've seen it up close back in the day~ Andy West's bass allegedly had that second 5-pin wired to 4 individual piezos in the bridge.... A very elegant way to fan out to quad, or integrate with analog synths, but I dunno about achieving an acoustic bass sound....

Glynn

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 470
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2014, 02:24:47 PM »
I fully understand edwardofhuncote. In the UK some traditionalists are wary of plugged in basses in bluegrass/folk.  My folk side of bass playing is with Morris dancing and Appalachian dance sides.  I have had mixed reactions but persevered and champion a view that music is music, bass is bass. I do not understand why music has to be put into boxes and we cannot stray away. I have had good comments from people who say that my ABG sound through a small rechargeable amp ADDS to the fiddle and melodian.  I have also had people object but they seem to be more about tradition than music and entertainment. Surely we are only in the professional world of music to entertain not for self-glorification and getting hung-up on what went before.
I say to Hammer, choose your ABG after research and harden yourself to any objections - your band seem to want an AGB so that is a good start.  What can the traditionalists object to? J.S.Bach wrote some of the best bass lines ever and they have been played on organ, harpsichord, double bass (Loussier), bass guitar (Jethro Tull). Also bass has been played on the serpent (Melstock Band), euphonium (New Orleans jazz), - need I go on?  
I end with checking out The Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain playing a Wheatus song 'I'm just a teenage dirtbag'which mentions Iron Maiden.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw8ZDwdyHJQ
I think this keeps our minds open.
Glynn

hammer

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3296
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2014, 02:58:07 PM »
Thanks again for the input. More research on my part is in line at this point.  I truly appreciate all of the ideas and suggestions.
 
And David...I had that same thought too which is why I have used the word Possible new project.

cozmik_cowboy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7341
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2014, 03:59:19 PM »
Really, the trouble with acoustic basses, even and especially uprights, is physical; they are very hard to amplify. There is always a balance to be struck between quacky piezos and boomy mics, the result is often less than ideal.  
 
I, as an engineer, have tried just about everything to amplify/record doghouse basses.  The best result was with a college big-band jazz player, who, after we'd tried several approaches to no avail, said What the hell, let's try this,  wrapped an SM-58 in a bar towel & shoved it into the opening in his bridge; bingo!  Great sound that followed his movement!
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

edwardofhuncote

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8032
  • ◇-◇-◇-◇-◇
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2014, 05:29:07 AM »
...wrapped an SM-58 in a bar towel & shoved it into the opening in his bridge
 
@ cozmik cowboy - LOL! yeah, most doghouse players have a wad of foam stashed in their case, just for that reason! Can't say it was the greatest sound ever, but it will surely do in a pinch. =)
 
Apologies for the small hijack hammer, but I am fascinated with the notion of Alembic employing piezos in a build edwin mentioned above. I gotta go look for that... it may be time to update the Dreaming For Now post!

hammer

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3296
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2014, 06:08:09 PM »
So I've been looking around and have found several interesting possibilities.  A used Rob Allen MB-2 currently going for $1,800 and a Tacoma Thunderchief offered at $1,000.  Leaning toward the former but I will obviously try to negotiate.  Does anyone know what these are typically selling for at this time? The Tacoma seems a bit high in price to me, but it's local so I'll be able to play it.

Glynn

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 470
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2014, 01:55:35 AM »
UK new price is probably no use but the shop I use is interesting -
http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Rob_Allen.html
 
Glynn

5a_quilt_top

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 686
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2014, 08:01:20 AM »
I'm biased, but IMO that Rob Allen is a good price.
 
It's about 40-50% less than new.
 
My MB-2 is super light, about 6.5 lbs. and very resonant. Swamp ash body with figured walnut top and a walnut neck.
 
It's very easy to play and delivers a warm, fat & growly fretless tone with a lot of sustain.

Glynn

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 470
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2014, 12:38:15 PM »
I tried an Ortega Lizard Ukulele Bass this weekend (yes - it did have serious fretbuzz as reviews say) and also a Kala U-Bass.  I don't come from a guitar background being a bass guitar player (after piano and church organ in very early days) so found the closeness of the frets a bit tricky.  I guess I could get used to the rubber strings but decided against. Happy to return to the safety of the Orion 4 the next day at my gig.  The guitar player that day said that he finds the Uke fret spacing tricky and he is an immense player.  
Glynn

briant

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 700
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2014, 12:51:40 PM »
If you can find one the Taylor AB-4 is hands down the best sounding/playing acoustic guitar style bass I've ever experienced.  Some lifetime ago I lusted after an ABG and played everything I could get my hands on.  About this same time Bryan Beller came through town with Mike Keneally and he let me play his AB-4 before the show (I'd known him prior to this meeting).  It blew me away and I started searching for one.  My need/desire to own one faded before I ever found one for sale.  Taylor had stopped making them ~12 months prior to me getting the urge to buy.

hammer

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3296
Possible new project...possibly need acoustic bass
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2014, 07:46:57 PM »
Put in a best offer on that Rob  Allen 5 String but it wasn't accepted. Thinking about trying again but based on what I've seen them going for lately the asking price is a bit high.