Author Topic: Studio gear/500 series modules for live (Read 822 times)

mavnet · « **on:** July 09, 2015, 06:53:17 AM »

I'm starting from scratch on my live rig, and I've been considering preamps, peq's and limiters. In the studio, we've got tons of great stuff available, but i rarely see any of that gear on the road (yet in the studio, we all love the Neve/Urei sound, for example). With the convenience of the 500 series racks and the great modules available, I'm wondering if you've heard/seen anyone using this stuff live instead of, for example, Eden, Alembic, Demeter, etc. And if you're doing this, what have you found works for you? Thanks! Mark.

JimmyJ · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2015, 09:38:54 AM »

Mark,

What a coincidence, I was just looking into this idea for my own traveling light rig. My goal is mostly to have a few transformer isolated line and mic level outputs, and possibly EQ on one. And as you may know the 500 series lunchboxes have +/-16v available so it seems likely they could power our Alembics... I need to do a bit more research on current and quality of those PSUs but this may call for an Alembic DS-500. Ha!

This is worth pursuing as I know there is some great sounding gear being made for this format.

Jimmy J

mavnet · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2015, 09:47:05 AM »

Cool, Jimmy J - i hadn't even thought about powering my instrument from the rack. I'm thinking good mic/line pre, EQ, parametric, good limiting/compression, and possibly some warming module for a musical overdrive. Essentially a great studio channel strip, but mixing and matching components. Please let me know what you find out and I'll do the same. Anyone else want to play?

adriaan · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2015, 11:13:41 AM »

Kind of at the same step of the way as Mark - have a Series bass incoming, looking into setting up my dad's old modular Audio Design Recording eq and compressor/limiter units that he used for voice recordings, as the starting point for perhaps a studio quality rig (not counting the speakers though, that WOULD be a bit ambitious).

These units operate at 24V, and I was already wondering if they could be fed off the DS5. Meanwhile, my brother is looking into changing the connectors to something contemporary and will probably be replacing some scratchy pots and switches. Next hurdle after that will be how to mount them in a neat way, but we're not quite there yet.

JimmyJ · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2015, 04:18:38 PM »

Yes, this will be interesting!

Mark, what you are describing is a great studio setup. I understand there was a time (maybe still) when the top Nashville bass cats would bring with them a Neve pre, LA2A compressor, etc.. Essentially an entire audio chain of their preferred outboard gear which they would then plug straight into the patch bay. Not sure if the engineers loved that or hated it, but I understand the concept. No matter what studio you were in your bass sound would be as YOU like it.

I go as far as bringing a REDDI with me but then I leave it to the recording engineer...

I still think of studio and live as different animals and my preference for live is to not use any compression on the bass - at least that I can hear. These basses are very even up and down the neck and I prefer to have the full range of dynamics available. If I barely play a note I don't want it to go BOOM. Ha! I also generally like how my basses sound flat. But once in a while I'll play through a wedge or amp or something that could really use a tweak. So that's partially what got me thinking about this.

Not sure what kind of shaping or overdrive units you might find in this format, and how you would route things in and out, but who knows? For example, overdriving a Neve pre sounds pretty juicy... There are also some germanium units out there that might be interesting...

Adriaan, I bet those ADR units will sound great! Good luck with that.

Jimmy J

sonicus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:16:04 AM »

This sounds like a very useful experiment to me as well . I actually now also prefer not to have any compression on my Bass sound . I do remember however one time when I had my old Guild Starfire modified with the old Alembic system that had the passive EQ / with Active pickups at Golden State Recorders in the mid 1970s . The Engineer Leo de Gar Kulka had a FAIRCHILD 670 compressor connected to my bass with me playing through his ALTEC 604 monitor speakers powered by tube McIntosh power amps . That Fairchild 670 was very interesting to say the least. The Manley Vari-mu now is a close replication version of the 670 from what I have been told .

I look forward to the result of this experiment .

Wolf

mavnet · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:54:36 AM »

I've been searching through various forums (fora?) and not finding any posts about using studio gear instead of MI gear for live. Some folks also using compressors, eq, etc, in addition to MI gear but I'd love to see what bass --> neve (etc) --> amp/speakers would sound like live. Now that there are convenient and reliable form factors, costs are comparable to MI gear, why aren't people doing this? Habit?

JimmyJ · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2015, 10:24:18 AM »

With the proliferation of home studios I predict more people may get into experimenting like this. But being Alembic guys already puts us solidly in the experimental wire-head category!

Most of the MI gear is still designed for passive high-impedence instruments and our op-amp out, near line-level axes may not work as predicted with that kind of gear. Better suited for equipment built for electronic keyboards instead of guitars. (In fact, if given the choice of a bass cube or a full-range keyboard amp, I'd pick the latter).

I'm not saying compression is a bad thing - especially in the studio where a touch of comp/limiter is usually preferred. Yeah, like Fairchild, you betcha! And many guys prefer it live too. So many that it's built in to a lot of bass amps. Just not my thing. I'd rather the note kept it's natural shape and sustain instead of sounding on or off... I also like to control that shape - how long the note lasts as it fades out. Etc.....

Carry on.
Jimmy J

tubeperson · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2015, 02:57:30 PM »

Jimmy Hartford Sat nite Section 400, Row PP. Sorry for the hijack.

JimmyJ · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2015, 04:26:29 PM »

Naughty hijacker! What seats in row PP?

hieronymous · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:31:55 PM »

I don't see myself going this route myself, but it's a really interesting idea. One item I am interested in is kind of the opposite - the JHS Colour Box - a recreation of the Neve console in pedal form.

I think I'm good though with my CAJ V-Comp tube compressor. I'm one of those that runs compression all the time, albeit just a smidgeon. Trying to incorporate my F-2B & SF-2 into my rig is even a stretch for me - I'm looking for simple and quick!

I would be willing to bet that one argument against going the 500 series route is that the results may not be as obvious live as in the studio, as well as being costly. But if you've already gone the Alembic route then you're already chasing the sound and I think it is a fascinating realm of possibility. A quick search at TalkBass didn't turn up much, though there is some discussion.

mavnet · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2015, 07:19:49 PM »

That JHS colour box is pretty cool!
Yeah, overall my experiment isn't about compression, although a touch is nice for taming things (but too much totally KILLS live bass). For me, it's more about tighter control and the quality of studio gear vs MI. As I've been looking around, I'm thinking less about 500 series rack and more about channel strip, but who knows. If I ever hear back from Mica, it might even be F2-B/SF-2

bigredbass · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2015, 10:45:26 PM »

500? Rupert?

http://rupertneve.com/ranges/500-series/

Joey

bigredbass · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2015, 10:52:39 PM »

It is a totally different world playing thru studio/line-level gear, power amps, and serious speakers, than SVT's and Aguilars and Mesas, etc.

You just have to decide which you prefer.

I was fortunate to test-drive an Avalon 737 once, and it was if I'd gone from a Ford TriMotor to a 787, for me. Your results may vary, but if the boat ever comes in, I WILL have one, sitting on top of a self-powered and self-INFRA'd biamp BagEnd stack. But that's me . . . .

mavnet · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2015, 03:24:15 PM »

Just an FYI. I've continued to research, lots of pros and cons about pro gear, but I didn't want to rush into a really expensive experiment and still needed something to gig with. So i'm still considering, but in the meantime I picked up a (slightly) used Demeter HBP-1 and an FX-1 to use. Going to play with them while i keep thinking through and testing ideas.