Author Topic: Vintage BC Rich  (Read 1823 times)

bigredbass

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2006, 10:17:44 AM »
Side by side, that's certainly true and very subjective, but . . . what would a brand new one sound like in 53 years?  I realize that's a very arcane question.  I still think that taken as a whole, Martin's never made better guitars.  And to be brutally frank, they'd better, as Bob Taylor has ante'd in and upped the stakes considerably for every major acoustic builder out there.
 
To me, all of my axes are players.  As electric instruments, I really don't attach a glossy-eyed romance to them.  Don't get me wrong, I certainly love them and take good care of them.  But ultimately they are tools to me.  And they need to be invisible in front of me.  I will NOT fight the action, wrestle with electronic noise, cuss a bass that won't stay in tune.  
 
So from that standpoint, new or lightly used works for me.  I can not imagine 50 year old wiring, those old, pot metal bridges, not to mention the wierd sets that necks can take over that period of time.  And the prices are beyond me:  If I had 10 grand to pay for an old Jazz, I'd be on the phone to Susan in a heartbeat!
 
I love to see the old axes, but I'd be very surprised (VERY) if I ever considered buying one for serious use.  I'm certainly in a VERY small minority, but it's like leaving Nashville for LA in a stock '57 Chevy:  Being THAT cool could not over-ride my fear that this old girl won't make it.  I'd like my new Vette in red, please.
 
J o e y

jalevinemd

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2006, 08:22:24 AM »
I hope the Chicago Guitar Show answers my prayers b/c these things seem to be as scarce as hen's teeth! Other than Solidbodyguitar.com (a bit over Blue Book) and Miami Vintage (WAY over Blue Book), I can't find a vintage Bich or Mockingbird anywhere. Plenty of green acrylic ones to be had, though! I realize they're making money, but it seems to be a real a shame what's happened to that company over the years.
 
Keep your eyes posted fellas.
 
Regards,
 
Jonathan

sarsicus

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2006, 06:09:40 PM »
Here's a shot of my two mocks and my old Moonstone-
 

jalevinemd

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2006, 10:24:14 AM »
Jim,
 
Longhorn AND a shorthorn...I hate you with every fiber of my being!
 
Just kidding. Stunning instruments. I'm truly jealous.

sarsicus

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2006, 12:20:43 PM »
Jim?  
My name is Sarsicus....
 
That Mock II at solidbody use to be mine. The all Koa one. A little beat up but kinda rare. Here's the crazy thing-I've seen this exact Mock II in 2 different Vintage Guitar Price List/Blue Box' guides and a BC Rich article/advertisement. The wood grain on the neck is a dead giveaway, very unique. He has it priced twice of what I paid for it, and it played like poop but it is kinda rare. That maple mock is WAY overpriced-totally plain jane maple. The guy at Miami Vintage does not know what he's talking about at all-I emailed him twice and spoke with him on the phone about the prototype he has for sale. He still hasn't really changed his ad and it's very misleading. Keep looking for them, just realize there are probably 500 other fanatics searching for the same thing...they're out there but you gotta know how to find them.

sarsicus

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2006, 12:29:24 PM »
By the way-don't buy a vintage BC Rich from Ed Roman. He has been caught  building new handmade BC Richs and stamping vintage serial numbers on them. The koa mock with the gold hardware on his site is a prime example of how good his fakes are, and the details to spot when looking for a fake. Big gold hardware guy. I almost got duped on a doubleneck seagull that was sold as a 79. If I didn't scrape the solder of the one pot that still had its numbers I wouldn't have noticed that the guitar was made in 2004. Be careful with vintage BC Rich...but when you get the right one you will enjoy!
 

jalevinemd

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2006, 09:22:26 PM »
Thanks for the advice.

bsee

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2006, 11:55:38 PM »
I thought Ed bought out all of the in-progress guitars when BC Rich stopped production 20-ish years ago.  I remember his CT store being absolutely packed with unfinished BC Rich guitars.  Lots of really nice neck through bodies routed for pickups and ready to finish.

sarsicus

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2006, 09:22:18 AM »
Yeah-he bought the Class Axe body blanks. Class Axe was the Japanese company BC Rich sold their right to after 1989. Ed would finish these post 89 body blanks and reserial them with pre 1985 serial numbers and sell the as vintage. He's also been known to add binding and cloud inlays to deluxe models to make them supremes, to turn neck through imports into vintage USA models. Stay away from his BC Richs.

jalevinemd

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2006, 10:32:45 AM »
Okay, you seem to be our resident BC Rich expert. Forget the claim about Rick Derringer and the ridiculous price tag. Do you think this is really a vintage 1977?
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/1977-LIKE-NEW-B-C-RICH-MOCKINGBIRD-SUPREAM-GUITAR_W0QQitemZ150022453326QQihZ005QQcategoryZ33035QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

sarsicus

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2006, 11:27:31 AM »
No, this the actual guitar I was talking about from Roman's site. It has been up for awhile at $4000 and the seller reduced his price. There are a lot of giveaways on that guitar. First it is not a supreme, it is a deluxe. A BC Rich is only supreme if it has a bound ebony fretboard with cloud inlays, sometimes a bound headstock as well. Unbound Rosewood boards and diamond inlays mean deluxe, dots mean standard or II series. The R inlay is abalone which BC Rich never used. The nut should be white bone which it is not. Grover was making imperial tuners with a bullseye gear housing, not this flat one. I haven't seen a ton of BC Rich-bought about 10 in the past two years and kept two, but it is extremely rare to have gold hardware on a regular deluxe model. It is, however, one of Mr. Romenz aftermarket trademarks. The truss rod cover, cavity plate, and output jack plate should all be made from the same material. From 74-late 82 BC Rich used gravoply, a black and white layered plastic material. After 82 the switched to either a black anodized metal or brass. This guitar seems to have the black metal with a brass output jack which is extremely inconsistent with a BC Rich with this serial number which puts it around late 1978.
 
Do you know the serial number stuff? From inception in 1974 to about the end of the 1st quarter of 1978 the 5 digit serial number worked perfectly for the company. YY/XXX setup means you can make 1000 guitars a year and still have the first two year indicators be accurate. When demand and production increased in 1978 not only did the serial number system become obsolete in terms of a build date indicator, Bernie Rico Sr. opened up a second shop in Tijuana, Mexico to handle the demand. Put it this way, my longhorn is 82191 with an estimated build date of 1st quarter 1980, my shorty is 81243 and has a build date of july 1979. You kinda have to estimate your year of birth for the old BC Richs. What's your number, I'll tell you when it was built.
 
To get back to this Koa mock-besides the hardware, nut, and inlays being totally wrong, the strap buttons are new, the case is script logo and that thing is CLEAN!! Another big indicator is the knobs-they weren't using black top hat knobs like this until late 81-82. A BC Rich with a number below, say 83XXX would probably have the silver tops knobs like I have on mine, no way would there be top hats. Plus the varitone switch, which is suppose to have a chicken head knob has a top hat as well!! That thing is a big mess, he's had it up on his site for years and I think some goof ball bought it and is noe trying to recoup.
 
The reality is that the vintage BC Rich build technique was supposedly one of the easiest ways to build a handmade guitar. The BC Rich South workshop in TJ still exists and has been building the handmade guitars for Class Axe BC Rich, Bernie Rico Jr Era BC Rich, HHI BC Rich, Bernie Rico Jr. Guitars, and Abstract Guitars. They make 'em in Mexico, assemble them in the states and sell them for US labor prices. These talented Mexican luthiers often sneak a few out the backdoor and finish the guitars themselves and sell them as vintage for a month's salary. There are probably a few guys still building today that used to build for BC Rich back in the glory days. If you know how to build this way you can make a new one and sell it as old. Dealers count on the inconsistencies of the old shop and lack of records to dupe a player into thinking he's getting a vintage guitar. Be careful-don't touch this one. That Black/Red one up on ebay now is pretty rare and cool, and very clean. It is a Tijuana template mockingbird, and not an Elmonte CA template mockingbird which is why I'm passing. The last koa shorty I saw in ebay without any issues went for about $3700, the prices have really escalated in the past few years for the translucent finished BC Richs with highly figured woods.
 Be patient, you will find the right one. Expect to pay between $1800 and $2300 for it. Let's see some pics of that bird you got!

57basstra

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2006, 12:11:41 PM »
I had a chance at a B.C. Rico once and let it pass. Wish I hadn't.
 
(Message edited by 57basstra on August 15, 2006)

lbpesq

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2006, 12:37:50 PM »
If you read between the lines, and assuming the story were true, then the conclusion is that Rick Derringer rejected this guitar.  Boy, that would sure give me confidence if I were a potential buyer!  LOL
 
Bill, tgo

sarsicus

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2006, 01:08:59 PM »
Rick rarely played off the shelf mocks which is what this appears to be. Most of his Mocks were smaller with thinner necks and custom electronics. He's played Stealths most of his BC Rich career anyways. I wouldn't believe a word of that auction.

bigredbass

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Vintage BC Rich
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2006, 06:05:37 AM »
THANKS, sarsicus, for sharing your knowledge of BCR's with us.  This is the great thing about this particular forum, the interchange of knowledge without a bunch of posturing or frayed nerves.  Seems like there's always somebody who really knows the particular question at hand to help us out.
 
I understand Bernard Rico passed on a while back, and it's a shame this is one more case where the name keeps going based on the original reputation through a widening circle of hands who can't continue the original magic.
 
J o e y