Author Topic: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread  (Read 2043 times)

jos

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2009, 05:48:50 AM »
HI Guys! I have experienced many times when engineers do not want to see an Alembic in the studio. This does not mean that the bass don?t work. In my experience its quite much a psychological thing. Hard core Rockers want to see a beaten up Fender bass. They do listen with their eyes. I have many stories about the subject but here is one;
 
There was a guitar player who was really old school he insisted passive basses for this session no active bullshit basses because he hates them. The guy was behind the mixing desk and asked me to play my Jazz Bass. He could then make the bass sound the way he did prefer it to sound.  
After a few minutes of playing the Jazz Bass he asked me to stop playing and leave it there, now the sound was really good, it was amazing?. It was just what he was looking for! What did you do he asked? Well, I did put the active electronic on??? I did answer! I do not want to embarrass anyone but I really did enjoy this??.
 
Having active electronics does not mean that you have to boost the high end to the max every time you play. I guess this is what most people think, who hate active electronic in a bass. To me there is a place for everything that is good?..
 
Alembic basses happen to be one of the few high-end basses or any basses where you really have equally all the frequencies available not only high and low end. The articulation is great on Alembics too the only problem is that if you make a mistake everybody can hear it; with Fenders you might get a way with it.  
But yes Jarek with Alembics you can also go wrong the whole way I have experienced that too. You just have to watch out and know your equipment.  
 
But in general Alembics are the basses of all basses that cuts through the best everywhere from studios to live performances, if that is what you are looking for.  
Fender basses are good too? nice sound like is Fodera, Ken Smith and many more basses out there.
 
You also have to remember that for many engineers the bass guitar is not the most important thing in a session. They usually spend one minute for the bass sound at most, so you better be prepared and make it right the first time because you will not get a second chance. In this way Fender is a good choice because everyone knows how it sounds. But if you know your Alembic it kills everything!! OK you know what I mean??..
If you have the time listen to the track New Song on my myspace page www.myspace.com/janolofstrandberg its maybe not that special today, it was recorded more than 10 years ago but I think there is enough midrange in the bass sound. It was recorded with an Alembic Signature Bass.

basstard

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2009, 06:34:19 AM »
Jan-Olof! I'm so happy you replied in my thread :-) You're a true virtuoso and it's a great honour for me that you took your time to share your experiences in this thread.
 
Coming back to my conversation with that Alembic-hating engineer guy, he was trying to explain everything to me using frequencies, wave curves and so on and so forth - I understood nothing of that. He also said that Music Man basses sound dead and are useless most of the time (I regret not asking him what he thought about Tony Levin or Gail Ann Dorsey...) and generally seemed to try to prove his point with all means available. Funny thing - he loves SWR amps which I happen to hate... ;-)
 
Is there a point to engage into discussion with such people at all?

serialnumber12

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2009, 07:05:40 AM »
most producers only wanna hear 'BASS' not clarity/tone ....................i even had a band leader bring (his) fender Bass & told me to "PLAY ONLY THIS BASS TONIGHT!!!!"





..............Sonofabich!!  (Message edited by serialnumber12 on June 23, 2009)
keavin barnes @ facebook.com

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2009, 07:27:41 AM »
Insurance companies running Hospitals...
is like Producers, controlling Music...
 
The people want the best care, and the best sounds possible!  
 
It time for Doctors and Musicians to fight the power!

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2009, 07:56:38 AM »
Any system that champions mediocre will eventually parish.  
 
By joining this club, and other music groups keep us grounded in producing a culture that is based on quality.

jos

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2009, 08:53:38 AM »
Most of the time it?s a question of how you use your equipment. I used to play Music Man basses besides of my Fenders in the late -70\s and early -80\s. Music Man is a great bass specially the old ones. This because the pickups and wood was better then (old Rock Maple on necks) but the new ones are OK too not as solid but OK. I did use flatwounds on some of my Music Man basses to get the midrange strong.  
Music Man and SWR have the same kind of V shape philosophy for the basic sound. I like them both but do not use either of them today and am not planning to use them either.
Louis Johnson got a great Music Man sound on Michael Jackson?s ?Off The Wall? album, really strong and solid.    
What a real engineer really should do is serve you and make the best of what you happen to plug in. A great producer should be getting the best out of the band and musicians in the studio not changing their style or sound too much but help them to sound good and make them relax.  
But we have to be realistic too the producer produces and we are listening and trying to do our very best.

juggernaught

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2009, 08:57:41 AM »
As an interesting side note, this type of situation is what made Victor Wooten switch from Alembic to Fodera:
 
http://www.fodera.com/artists/wooten/book/bassexc.htm
 
Neither good nor bad IMO, but an interesting piece of history.

jakebass

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2009, 12:02:27 PM »
In my mind a good producer will want what the player has to offer, however I too have taken both Jazz bass and Alembic on sessions only to find that producers want that 'old Fender sound' I don't think it really stands but I guess they want the security of it sounding like they expect.

juggernaught

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2009, 01:11:59 PM »
The worst is when the sound guy at the gig comes up to your amp and starts playing with the parametric EQ because the bass isn't boomy enough.  What, like I have to change my entire technique so that the bass sounds like what you want?  I swear half those guys are deaf as a post.

jeffbass4

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2009, 01:37:28 PM »
In one session I was hired for, the producer wanted a P-bass with flat wounds. Ok so I did that. Then he asked if he could change the tones on the amp which was fine with me because I know where they are and can change them back when I leave. It was an old vintage type sound as you can guess. Weeks later he called me back to re-record my parts because his sound didn't work so well. What ended up on the record was the Alembic and the sound I have set up on my SVT.  SWEEET  :-)
 
P.S. Random sound guys DO NOT get to change my amp settings!

llobsterbass

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2009, 04:28:44 PM »
One of the worst of these stories is, of course, a Phil Lesh story. It's in Blair Jackson's Grateful Dead gear book (a must read for any music gearhead).
 
The producer of Terrapin Station -- Gary Lyon? -- describes the Alembic Phil was using on those album sessions (either Big Brown or Mission Control) as sounding like a piece of clothesline nailed to a board. Makes fun of Phil for saying it's low impedance, then asks if he has a Fender.
 
(Message edited by llobsterbass on June 23, 2009)

sonicus

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 07:14:02 PM »
I  have been on both sides of this fence and could write volumes of pages on this topic.  If an engineer can't deal with the  signal  from an active Bass this is usually a sign of lack of experience and/or knowledge or simply lack of the equipment to derive a useable signal.The later being true for a direct in . Some times you just need to experiment with combinations with  the right microphone and direct In .  We  as GOOD Bass players also need to focus on CLEAN studio  technique. Most engineers and or producers will be picky when if comes to FRET NOISE and  RATTLE from the start. I do not have  to tell anyone here  about how sensitive our  ALEMBICS  are, they pick up everything  we give them. Then there are of course those producers that have the dictator attitude  _____and you can't  tell them anything.The bottom line is that with time, a  positive artist friendly attitude, thorough knowledge and the right equipment almost anything is possible, and lets not forget talent.

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2009, 08:16:35 PM »
Wolf, that was exactly what I was thinking...  
 
A good engineer should be-able to take what he has to work with, and make music with everybody on board the ship. S/he must know a variety of sounds, and also been around enough to bring the best from the breed of the basses out there.(if you will...) and if they are not aware of Alembics, WTF had they been doing for the past 30+ years!!!
 
A good engineer should have the people and social skills required to motivate everyone (including Her/Himself) to a win-win agreement on the sound period. Ray Charles comes to mind... He owned his Masters, smart man with B_lls.  
 
The days are gone for us depending on these yo-yo's. We have a great many resources to create what is right for ourselves, and with the Internet too -- what more can we ask besides a contract that fits your terms and conditions.

basstard

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2009, 03:21:11 AM »
I looked up that Alembic-hating guy - he's got really good credits... http://www.myspace.com/blazejdomanski
I've found numerous interviews with him, he seems to be highly respected...

lbpesq

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2009, 07:48:55 AM »
The producer of Terrapin Station ?
 
Keith Olsen
 
Bill, tgo