Author Topic: Directly driving a power amp?  (Read 539 times)

svlilioukalani

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2009, 05:34:50 AM »
Hey Brad,
 
Have you ever tried a SansAmp Bass DI. I picked one up at BassNW a few weeks ago. I love the thing. I have been playing some crappy shows this last month, where I have to use the house gear. I go direct into the DI then into the PA or the effects return on the bass head. It makes everything I play sound better. I noticed your Series bass sounds better than my non-Series electronics. Not sure how the SansAmp will work with your bass.  
 
Oh yea, I'm still grooving on the frettless Epic you sold me. Thanks again!!!!!
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/index.html

Bradley Young

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2009, 06:23:52 AM »
Gary,
 
I'm glad that she's getting the attention she deserves!
 
I have thought about something like a SansAmp, or Tech21 is making some new character pedals like the VT that can sound very much like an Ampeg SVT.
 
Although trying to sound like an SVT pretty much defeats the purpose of a hi-fi rig.  
 
Bradley

chalie_holmes

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2009, 07:13:22 AM »
Thanks Dave! Thanks Jimmy! I think that I'm going to dig this set up! By the way Jimmy, Nice solo on the Stanley Clarke School Days DVD, real classy man. In addition, I've enjoyed James Taylor since the Mud Slide Slim Album. Keep it low bro!!
Peace-n-out cub scout!
 
Chalie

terryc

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2009, 03:48:18 AM »
what about a balanced DI directly into a power amp, could I use the ME50B then as it may equal out the line level mismatch??

sonicus

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2009, 05:28:03 AM »
Hi terryc,
                       All DI ;s are not equal . is it passive or active? Most DI's out are at mic level , not at +4dBu line level. I do not know what the I/O specs of the ME50B are. With the right adaptors and more information you can interface almost anything with out any signal loss or impedance mismatch. Most power amps need more level then mic level to drive them to their rated output wattage rating.If you decide to wire your own adaptors from 3 pin balanced lines to 2 conductors you need to know this about balanced lines that follow the AES standard ; PIN 1 ground
                                                                                            PIN 2 hot
                                                                                            PIN 3 cold
Watch out for variations used by various manufacturers in the pin out !  
                                                                                                                             
 
 
(Message edited by sonicus on August 20, 2009)

terryc

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2009, 06:56:43 AM »
sonicus..thanks for that, I will look at manual for Me50b to ascertain line levels

JimmyJ

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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 10:39:13 AM »
Hey Terry and Wolf,
 
The published specs for the ME50B say both the nominal input level and the nominal output level is -10dBu.  And for comparison the QSC 2450 that Chalie mentioned above is looking for +3.4dBu to drive the amp to it's rated output.  That's not to say that the Boss unit wouldn't have some extra headroom available or whatever power amp you try won't have enough output.  Also, if you get the front end running at -10 and you're trying to get to +4, you are not that far away and might get enough additional gain from an active DI or even a consumer to Pro line-level transformer like a Jensen JT-6110K-B...??  (I'm still speaking as an amateur self-taught wirehead...)
 
But first, try plugging that bass directly into the power amp so you can see what we're talking about...  It's pretty surprising.
 
Jimmy J

terryc

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 11:02:59 AM »
jimmyj..beat to it there, just got home and checked the specs manual and you are right on the nose with the info.
I have an old Peavey TNT115 combo with a return line but I guess that will run through the pre amp first.
 
The power amp/speaker project is still in the forefront of my mind so any info that I gain(along with chalie) is very valuable..Many thanks for the input(pardon the pun!!)

sonicus

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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 06:39:25 PM »
Hi Jimmy , as an experiment I am going to play my Series II  directly through my old  Yamaha  p2200 power amp in Stereo with an 18 inch gauss in an old Alembic cabinet and  a 4 / 10 mesa cabinet loaded with EV's . THANKS FOR THE INSPIRATION AND A GREAT IDEA !  
 
   Wolf--

jseitang

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 06:45:51 PM »
hey jimmy,
you know i totally get your train of thought, at this point line level add-ons would only have to be high end outboard gear to match this kind of set up.  
these would only bring out subtle things(like the attack of the string from the fingers on not, the certain frequency you could set up your bass, and how the note decays)... the possilites are endless...

terryc

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2009, 02:08:35 AM »
I have just remembered I have an old Peavey DPS Digital power amp in the garage, think I will give it a go through a speaker cab this week end

jseitang

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2009, 03:04:36 PM »
i bet you this kind of speaker set-up would be amazing through a mcintosh amp like a 2300. that would be rad.

sonicus

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2009, 05:52:58 PM »
The Mac 2300's were awesome in their day and still are nice ,I really love the way that they are built, but check out the specs of an MC 2300 to almost any compbarable current PRO power amp of today. The MC  2300's also did not have such a great damping factor  14 or geater(higher is better for definition in bass response) and had only 300 RMS WATTS per channel and they were really HEAVY @128 LBS,if you think in terms of pounds per WATT .   What made these Amplifiers a good choice for the GD wall of sound was the fact  the way the output stage is coupled to the speakers . They could do .5 ohms to 16 ohms stereo or .5 to 8 ohms mono.  Don't get me wrong I still think they are AWESOME amps iin many ways and they just have a sound that many will prefer. My 2 cents_______.

oddmetersam

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2009, 02:08:37 AM »
I can vouch for McIntosh MC 2300's being in a class all their own.  In the mid-70's I played bass with Osiris, a band welcomed into the Grateful Dead's extended family because our keyboard player, Kevin McKernan, was the late Pigpen's younger brother.
 
At one point during this period the Dead members went on hiatus, with many playing in spin-off groups. They let us temporarily borrow some of their Wall of Sound components.  For an outdoor gig in the plaza at Stanford University one night I got to play my Stars Guitars modified 72' Jazz through a humungous bass rig:  The eq section of our GMT 300B bass amp (GMT later became Gallien-Kreuger) fed one channel of a MC 2300, which in turn powered FOUR stacked Alembic single 15 JBL-equipped cabs.  The kind with the beautiful natural finish plywood.  Just for good measure, there was either a 2 x 10 or 2 x 12 Alembic cab perched on top of everything! I don't know what the total system impedance was, but as has been noted previously, MC 2300's are able to handle almost any load and not even breathe hard.
 
I have never experienced the kind of bass this rig put out; not without additional sound reinforcement from a PA!  It wasn't just the extreme volume or the sledgehammer wallop that can sometimes become over powering. I've never been a fan of tweeters in bass cabs and those full-range 15's had a burnished tone to die for. The sensation could best be described as similar to going to the beach and wading into the water until it's about chest deep. The energy of the incoming waves (notes) enveloped everyone and was strong enough to physically push the audience back (and me forward...).  I can't even imagine how much more intense everything would have been with an Alembic bass in my hands.
 
Fast forward:  Amoeba Records in Berkeley uses a MC 2300 to amplify the background music in the store.  You can see it behind the main counter, just humming along.  It's huge.  None of the employees I've spoken with seem to be aware of how special that monster truly is.

sonicus

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Directly driving a power amp?
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2009, 05:13:32 AM »
Hi oddmetersam.  I saw Osiris back in the mid -70's ,  I liked the band ! in fact I think you guys might have been on the same bill together with some friends of mine  at some point, You have triggered some of my memories from the past.  
              Yes , indeed the MC 2300's were built to handle low impedance loads. I have seen the MC 2300 that you mention at Amoeba, it's walking distance from me. I love vintage gear like that .I played through one that was hooked up to the pre-amp output from a Fender Dual Showman also with 4 Alembic Birch plywood cabinets loaded with JBL D140 speakers. GREAT STUFF!
 
(Message edited by sonicus on September 07, 2009)