QSC PLX Amps

[thumbsup]

Hi Charles  
Oh  I though you had a F2-B still for sale!
 
I only speak & understand english.Thomas & Edwin lost me a while back! Actually this is very interesting & educational.  
So Thomas ...what are your views on Joeys idea of running a matched set of 4-10s run to each side of a QSC or similar amp?
 
Steve

[thumbsup]

Oh Thomas....
Don't really play any big stages except when I (band) may ocasionaly open at local expo center/fair that seats 5000 up. And thats maybe once a year.
I do play quite a few outdoor gigs.
Steve

[charles_holmes]

You said that you wanted a F1X not my F2B. I still have the F2B and not the SF2 (superfilter)

[thumbsup]

Hey Charles,
You'ld have to read the whole thread.
e mail sent!
Steve

[5sicks]

Sorry it's taken me this long to reply Thumbsup. To answer your ? you have to decide what is more desirable for you: having wicked loud stage volume that has the potential for distortion and blowing the sound right past you and out to the audience where it will be confused with FOH sound and cause even more distortion and unevenness(2 cabs) or using a single source full range cab that will handle the power necessary to reproduce the lows cleanly and aim it across the stage so all your mates can hear it without it having to be so loud and the audience can enjoy an un-cluttered FOH bass with your sound guy in full control. I have seen on some other threads some folks noticed that at some live events with big-time players and probably high end FOH systems that the bass was boomy, woofy or too loud. I have experienced this too altho I don't attend many concerts anymore. I really believe that the phenomenon I'm talking about is to blame for this: too much stage volume (which the sound tech can't control) and then the dreaded comb filtering happening as the stage sound waves are slightly behind the FOH waves and so cause partial calcellation and distortion. The sound guy then turns up the front bass in an effort to drown out the stage bass but all that is accomplished is a worsening effect and crappy uneven bass. One of the biggest problems with live presentations is stage volume. In the old days we didn't have huge front systems and none of the instruments were mic'd or signaled out. We just cranked up the amps and let 'er whistle. That mentality has carried over to musicians today when we do have front systems that should be almost completely discreet from the stage. The techs who are knowledgeable all agree to turn the stage down and let them do their job.

[thumbsup]

Well Thomas,  
That certainly makes since!
Thinks I'll just run the F2B & amp thru my 4-10
Thanks  Steve

[peoplechipper]

Wow, you guys put together rigs bigger than any club I've ever played at, never gotten my Acoustic 370 over 2.5 anywhere I've ever played...
Thomas makes a valid point about stage volume vs. front of house, but my personal experience has been that the monitors are either partially blown or an underpowered afterthought so you either have to be so practiced that you can play deaf to your bandmates or you crank it up on stage to hear everyone...I personally have had perfect monitors ONCE and I loved it; despite the potential for meltdown(hangovers,drink and drug overindulgences)we had one of our best gigs of the whole time I was in that band...so I guess if you go to a place with good sound and a good soundman, tip well and send everyone there as that is sadly not common...Tony.

[5sicks]

If we are serious about our music (hopefully all here are), we have to blow the dust of our wallets and invest in gear that is appropriate to what and where we play. That said it doesn't mean that the biggest, most expensive , boutique name equipment is always the way to go. A matched, small, lightweight rig is possible and adequate for most venues. The modern lightweight class D amps have gobs of clean power and the variety of pre-amps is boggling. The weakest point of any sound reproduction system is the input device (mic, pick-up) and the speaker. All of these devices are grouped together as transducers and they are the only types of devices that convert audible energy to electrical signals and vice-versa. Therefore we need to pay the closest attention to these parts. Alembic and others have figured out how to reproduce the input part... there is always room for improvement but that is pretty much up to science beyond our control. So what we can do is choose from the myriad speaker configurations available (and there are as many theories as assholes here too). So the best we can do is listen to as much and as many rigs as possible and enlist the ears of our friends to guide us to that perfectly unattainable sound. Stage monitors are a good place to invest in quality as these are our common denominator--just keep the drums and bass out of the monitor mix.

[thumbsup]

The best gigs I've played is when the stage volume is under control...and kept under contol by ALL the muscians on stage....
I wish there was a stomp box that would turn (those) guitar players down when they think I have to play at this volume or I can't get into it LOL
Next thing you know every one is turning up just to hear themselves and it's a free for all!
(That was sometime ago and most are quite a bit more professional now. I stopped playing that game long ago)
 
(Message edited by thumbsup on February 09, 2011)

[mike1762]

My newest rig consist of:
1) Boss ME-50B
2) Sans Amp Bass Driver DI
... that's it!!!  
 
The drummer uses an electronic kit and the KB is also running direct.  I'm trying to talk the guitarist into using a POD and going direct as well.  That will be much less gear to haul around and will give us TOTAL control over the mix.

[cozmik_cowboy]

With 2 exceptions, every band I ever mixed, I mixed to the bass player's stage volume (and constsntly told them to turn down).  The exceptions?  The guitarist who'd dime his 100w Marshall in a 30-seat room (I'm just trying to get a sound, man) and the most recent one, who had no backline; PODs for guitars & bass, DI for keys.  I mixed to the hardest hitting drummer I've ever known.  I did jokingly suggest an electronic kit, and got a really dirty look for my trouble.  But in general, yes, everybody turn down!  You'll sound better out front, I promise.  And if your sound is an amp driven into insanity (see Marshall above) - get a smaller amp! As Thomas points out, the Grateful Dead & Alembic invented modern sound reinforcement 40 years ago; use it to your advantage.
 
Peter

[sonicus]

Mike , what electronic drum kit is being used ?  have you checked out the new V- Drum Roland line? I was considering getting the  TD-4SX. I have heard good things about the Sans Amp Bass Driver DI as well.   I like the concept of the way you are going about control; handy in a Dinner Venue.

[jbabies]

I play at a lot of fairly large rooms (300-500 people) and have to say that you need headroom, horsepower and clarity to get a great sound live. Both guitarists in my band use 100w tube half stacks and the drums are most often filled through a 2x15 and horn cab.
 
I have found that most bass gear sounds pretty honky and distorted even with the best brands. The weakest link in most bass cabs is the horn driver, I have consistently replaced the horn drivers in my cabinets first with JBL2402's and now with Beyma CP22 supertweeters. This makes an incredible difference to the audability of my sound onstage.
 
I have been using the Crown XTi4000 power amp for about two years now and recommend it highly. It is only and 20lbs and will deliver over 3000watts RMS bridged mono @4 Ohms or 1600watts a side into 2. I use mine at 4 Ohms a side (1200watts) into 2x4 Ohms cabinets. I am using a 6x10 loaded with Eminence Delta 10's (2400w RMS) with a 2x10 loaded with kappa 10's (1000w RMS).
 
However, if you just chuck your preamp in front of an XTi you will only get a fraction of what this amp can deliver. You absolutely MUST download the HiQnet System Software (free from Crown) and use the USB connection to program your own custom presets.
 
The Xti has 6 bands of fully parametric EQ with high and low pass filters, a fully configurable stereo crossover, inbuilt limiters and a host of other features which can be saved to one of 15 user presets. Every time I have read criticisms of the XTi's in forums it is by users who have not availed themselves of the advanced features this amp supports.
 
I have a preset just for the 6x10 in bridged mono mode and another two presets for Bi amp (big Stage),and full range (smaller stage) configurations with both cabinets. http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xti.htm#specs

[mike1762]

The drummer's electronic kit is the latest version of the Yamaha DTXtremes.  I also have an older incarnation of them that I use when recording.  I know most drummer's hate the whole concept of electronic drums, but they sound REALLY good.  We have a set of full range cabinets and a sub for the FOH and a smaller set of full range cabs for sidefills/monitors... no need for personal monitors.

[jon_jackson]

I have a Crown XTi4000 to run two JBL SRX718S subs.  Using the HiQNet Band Manager software instead of System Architect.  It's less robust than System Architect and is designed for easier/quicker setup in various venues.  Very flexible in controlling the amp.  The only issue I have is it (and System Architect) won't run on anything but a Windows product due to the underlying software frame.