Author Topic: Another 'How do I get Phil Lesh's tone?' thread (Read 1381 times)

sonicus · « **Reply #45 on:** January 20, 2011, 07:11:16 AM »

It is sad but true but not all FOH folks have got EARS and much less GOLDEN EARS. If an artist really knows what THEIR sound is and they know how to get it on stage A GOOD FOH person will respect that sound. Unfortunately their are limitations as to what can be done in some circumstances and variables of venue design /location / equipment, knowledge and BUDGET. Most important is sensitivity and willingness of the FOH person to really care. I have been on both sides of the situation and have had an FOH person make a huge mess of things while I was playing on stage.

s_wood · « **Reply #46 on:** January 20, 2011, 07:36:07 AM »

This thread has gone to yet another interesting place...

Over the last few years I have decided that, for me the use of a fairly radical EQ approach on my rig (like, for instance, cranking the Enhance knob) is a symptom that something is wrong somewhere else in the signal chain, or that the house acoustics are weird. Leaving acoustics aside, it seems to me that if I am playing a bass that actually sounds pretty close to what I am hearing in my head I shouldn't have to resort to radical EQ solutions.

That said, I agree completely with Edwin: if it sounds good and feels good to you it is good, and it really doesn't matter how you get there. I remember and old Guitar Player magazine interview with Stephen Stills where he explained that when he played bass he preferred to use completely dead flatwounds, so he would prepare his strings by soaking them in barbecue sauce. Whatever's right, he muttered...

s_wood · « **Reply #47 on:** January 20, 2011, 08:38:36 AM »

This thread has gone to yet another interesting place...

Over the last few years I have decided that, for me the use of a fairly radical EQ approach on my rig (like, for instance, cranking the Enhance knob) is a symptom that something is wrong somewhere else in the signal chain, or that the house acoustics are weird. Leaving acoustics aside, it seems to me that if I am playing a bass that actually sounds pretty close to what I am hearing in my head I shouldn't have to resort to radical EQ solutions.

That said, I agree completely with Edwin: if it sounds good and feels good to you it is good, and it really doesn't matter how you get there. I remember and old Guitar Player magazine interview with Stephen Stills where he explained that when he played bass he preferred to use completely dead flatwounds, so he would prepare his strings by soaking them in barbecue sauce. Whatever's right, he muttered...

s_wood · « **Reply #48 on:** January 20, 2011, 08:45:42 AM »

This thread has gone to yet another interesting place...

Over the last few years I have decided that, for me the use of a fairly radical EQ approach on my rig (like, for instance, cranking the Enhance knob) is a symptom that something is wrong somewhere else in the signal chain, or that the house acoustics are weird. Leaving acoustics aside, it seems to me that if I am playing a bass that actually sounds pretty close to what I am hearing in my head I shouldn't have to resort to radical EQ solutions.

That said, I agree completely with Edwin: if it sounds good and feels good to you it is good, and it really doesn't matter how you get there. I remember and old Guitar Player magazine interview with Stephen Stills where he explained that when he played bass he preferred to use completely dead flatwounds, so he would prepare his strings by soaking them in barbecue sauce. Whatever's right, he muttered...

811952 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 20, 2011, 01:05:43 PM »

Several years ago I had a long chat with Dream Theatre's road manager about this. He was also the FOH engineer. John Myung insisted on sending post-eq to the house, consequently there wasn't enough midrange to work with to give him any definition in the house. His signal was all deep rumble and sizzling highs, and completely lost in the room even though when he played I swear my ears popped. What I take from this is that sure, the sound guy needs to take a listen up close to what your tone is, but you've got to give him or her what they need to make that workable in the larger sonic picture. I know from experience that a number of FOH guys seem to suck only because the band doesn't do what it needs to do to create a workable situation for everyone in the room. And then, of course, there are FOH guys who really do suck.

I remember that Stephen Stills interview, and especially the barbeque sauce bit. *sigh*

John

benson_murrensun · « **Reply #50 on:** January 20, 2011, 01:16:02 PM »

I heard that James Jamerson used old, dead flatwounds; and he liked to eat greasy fried chicken before playing and get the grease on the strings. Tone for days!

glocke · « **Reply #51 on:** January 20, 2011, 06:15:06 PM »

What about Phil's overdrive, distorted tone ? I've tried a couple of pedals in the past to try and get that but none of really sounded all that great.

benson_murrensun · « **Reply #52 on:** January 21, 2011, 08:21:49 AM »

When I think of Phil's sound I don't think of overdrive. Where are there examples to be heard?

glocke · « **Reply #53 on:** January 21, 2011, 10:55:26 AM »

Hey Ben

Overall his tone has always been really clean, but
there are a few examples from the late 60's early 70's where he has a distorted, overdriven signal, I've always wondered whether or not it was intentional. I'll try and post some archive.org references later tonight unless someone beats me to it.

benson_murrensun · « **Reply #54 on:** January 21, 2011, 11:21:04 AM »

Cool, and thanks. Hey, maybe he hiJACKed a Versatone. (sorry)

elwoodblue · « **Reply #55 on:** January 21, 2011, 11:51:16 AM »

I'll look forward to that glocke,
I've been using one of my GT Trio preamps for overdriven bass sounds with my exploiter .
Interesting that I bought it for guitar (Jerry tones)and I find that it is just as wonderful for clean and dirty bass tones.
Great stuff in this thread...thanks everyone!!

glocke · « **Reply #56 on:** January 21, 2011, 03:10:29 PM »

well, heres one:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-05-03.sbd.samaritano.21923.sbeok.shnf

track 24 (other one jam), to me it sounds like there is some overdrive toward the end of his solo, probably just pushing his amp to the max I guess.

Also, he sounds kind of gritty during his solo on the eyes of the world on one from the vault
as does some of the stuff that was released on the fillmore west 1969 boxed set sounds overdriven to me.

(Message edited by glocke on January 21, 2011)

edwin · « **Reply #57 on:** January 21, 2011, 05:43:50 PM »

I remember reading an interview from the early 70s where he mentions being able to overdrive things with his preamps. I wonder if some of it is with a lot of resonance in the onboard filters. It sounds like it might be the case here.

Speaking of 1972 shows, anyone else in on the Europe '72 box set?

http://www.dead.net/features/release-info/holy-s-it-s-complete-europe-72-box-over-60-discs

lbpesq · « **Reply #58 on:** January 21, 2011, 05:46:27 PM »

Edwin:

There's already a well populated thread on the box set here.

Bill, tgo

cosmic · « **Reply #59 on:** January 22, 2011, 09:49:16 PM »

I like the turn this thread has taken.

A couple of comments:

1. I can understand why guys like Phil or Mike Gordon have all these EQ options. For one, they are both tone-chasers and that is evident in how nice their basses consistently sound at each and every show they play. And consider they are playing large arena with varying acoustical problems far different than a small club. So maybe having the capability to fine tune their EQ to such an extreme is how they are able to maintain such consistently nice live sounds arena to arena, year in and year out.

2. The bottomline though is -- do what works for you. I look at what Phil does with his EQ, tone, equipment and I try to understand what problem he is trying to solve, challenge he is overcoming, ,strength he is bolstering, warmth he is enhancing etc in his sonic quest. The exact details, exact EQ setting, exact this and that may or may not work for me. But either way, learning how someone else does something, certainly can help to inform my own personal search for the sound in my own head.