Outboard preamp with Alembics, hmmm????

[wookie]

Hi everyone
as a preface I don't know much about preamps so you have to be gentle and speak as if you were talking to a small ignorant child  
 
So I think I figured out that what I like about my spector bass is the preamp (an aguilar)
So what I was thinking was I'll get a sweet alembic for my pretty clean sounds and when I want to rock I'll turn on an outboard preamp (like the tone hammer)  
 
So I call Aguilar and they tell me to switch the bass to passive, then use the preamp...
 
Well you guys already know where this is going, right? Alembics (S2) can't be run passive.....
 
 
what do I do? is there a way to run alembic (series 2, or signature) with an outboard preamp?
 
aguilar said it could be too much for the input of the amp
 
So am I chasing a yeti? is it possible to have the baddest bass ever (S2) and run it into a tone hammer preamp?  
 
Thank you in advance. I'm sure this is obvious to most or all of you

[sonicus]

Hi  Wookie ,
                   You can use the principals of basic gain structure in the signal path. Low at the source and increase the gain from device to device. I won't get into technical specs and voltages or decibels to help you here as per your request.  
 
      Start with the volume set low from the Bass  to your Tone Hammer. Next ; output from the Tone Hammer to the input of the next device . You increase the gain /volume from device to device .  
 
          I do not own a  Tone Hammer  nor have I used one but I have used many different Parametric EQ's such as Furman PQ_3 , NEI 342 ,TC Electronics 2240 and other similar stuff that can modify the gain structure.The above method might work for you  as per my 2nd paragraph.  I can get most  of the gain and signal modification that I desire from my Alembic SF-2 Super Filter more so then with other devices .

[hieronymous]

Agreed - I've never used the Tone Hammer but I don't think there should be a problem. Aguilar was probably concerned that people might have the gain on their active bass cranked to 10 (not realizing that the whole point is that you can turn it down without losing frequencies like on passive basses), maybe even with bass & treble boosted - that would probably overload the unit. But one of the great things about Alembics is the trimpots that allow you to adjust the output without sacrificing tone.
 
Once on talkbass there was a guy who had just gotten a Musicman Stingray. It was his first active bass. He said that he was a turn all the knobs all the way on kind of guy and that's what he was doing with this bass. People tried to tell him that this isn't the way you normally use an active bass - 0 is in the middle, not at 10 like on a passive bass - but he wouldn't listen and stubbornly had everything all the way up.
 
This reminds me - I need to adjust the trimpots in my Stanley Clarke bass - they are set pretty low, then I lowered the pickups, now the output is really low! Gotta adjust it so that it's close to my other basses...

[wookie]

Thanks guys!
are you saying that the gain pots inside my bass are how I set the limit to the knobs on the front of my bass?
 
 So all I have to do is turn the gain down? is that the same as the volume? I know there are trim pots inside my basses but my (mis?)understanding is that even if the volume is down it doesn't mean the information that's put out is lower is that right?  
 
So if I have the bass boosted on the instrument to say 2, then the bass on the preamp to 4...it's now at 6 and not 4 as the preamp says.  
 
I do get that zero is in the middle or detent with active and on a passive zero is all the way up.
 
as you can tell I don't like to fiddle with knobs a whole lot. I don't play to twist knobs.
 
So all I have to do is watch the gain? can I turn it down in the bass or at the volume pot or either? then match the volume with the preamp, right?  
 
 
 
forgive me if I'm drooling on myself....because I almost did.

[sonicus]

Don't mess with the trim pots if they are the way that you like them straight to your favorite amplification setup with out the tone hammer.  
 
        Follow my suggestions in my previous post  #2938 paragraph #2.  ( just the volume knobs on front of the bass or the master volume on  front  of the bass )
 
   See if you like the results and experiment a bit
 
(Message edited by sonicus on June 09, 2013)

[hieronymous]

Good point Wolf - there's probably no need to adjust the trimpots - just important to know that Alembics have that option which is part of how powerful and flexible the system is. Try it the way your bass is set up first - if trying it is possible!  
 
I guess that's another question - what would be the outboard equivalent of the preamp in your Spector, and would it sound the same with an Alembic running through it? Do you need the distortion that the Tone Hammer offers? Are there other options that might get you to your goal? Just thinking out loud!

[sonicus]

Harry , Good questions ; Do you need the distortion that the Tone Hammer offers? Are there other options that might get you to your goal?

[sonicus]

Wookie,  
 Here is the instruction manual for your Tone Hammer  
 
      It might be interesting to  try the DI output for variations of connect-ability in  your experimentations
 
   Sonic Regards ,
 
http://www.aguilaramp.com/pdf/ToneHammerManual.pdf
 
   I think you might enjoy also  experimenting with an Alembic SF-2

[edwin]

That's an interesting method setting gain structure. My rule of thumb has always been to get a healthy output from the source so that the following device can be run preferably at unity gain. My understanding is that if you start with an attenuated source and then keep adding gain in subsequent stages you'll be adding noise with each stage of amplification. If you run the source hot enough and run each stage at unity or attenuation, you at best will be decreasing noise from the active stages and at worst not adding noise. Practically, this has meant finding what level from each stage distorts the subsequent stage and then backing off from there until it's clean. But, I'll have to try this approach and see what happens. Learn something new every day!