Rogue-Europa vs. S I-II

[richbass939]

Other than the body shape what is the difference?
Thanks,
Rich

[FC Bass]

Purple heart neck laminates on the Europa, no fingerboard inlays on the Rogue, 35 inch scale on the Rogue and peghead shape.
That's for the standard specs I guess.
 
I also see lots of Rogues with a bar tailpiece vs the bird tailpiece on the Europa.

[bsee]

Europa also gets the brass plates versus plastic on the back of a Rogue.

[David Houck]

I believe the standard models also differ in the number of body accent laminates.

[richbass939]

I guess I should've been a bit more specific in my thread title and opening post.  I was thinking more about the guts and sound.  It appears that the electronics are identical or very similar.  
I'm also wondering about the difference in the sound of Rogues/Europas, Signatures, and Series I/IIs.  I'm thinking a little bit about getting rid of my Epic 5 and getting a 5 with filters.  I know that the different pickups in the models will give them different sounds.
I'm thinking that some club members have owned/have played all/most of the above models and have some input about the sound.
Thanks,
Rich
P.S.  Dave, if you would please change the thread title to something like Rogue-Europa vs. S I-II it might draw in more input.  Thanks!

[bassjigga]

I can't compare the sound to Series for you, but you are correct in that the Europa and Rogue share the same electronics. The Europa probably has more fundamental sustain due to the purpleheart neck laminates.

[bsee]

Rogue vs Europa is a style choice more than a sound choice.  They are close to identical with the only non-cosmetic difference being the purpleheart in the neck.  I prefer it to an all maple setup, but that's a personal choice.  A stock Europa should have a bit more fundamental than a stock Rogue.
 
In comparison to Series instruments, not even close.  Between the two lie the Signature instruments and a whole lot of hybrid options.  What it comes down to is this:
 
1. Pick your body and headstock styles
2. Pick your wood recipe
3. Pick your scale length and other dimensions
4. Pick your electronics package
5. Make a bunch of mostly cosmetic choices
 
Once you figure out what you want, then you stick it into the quote generator from various starting points and consider the monthly special to see the best way to order.  Sometimes a compromise will save you big, and sometimes extra stuff that you wouldn't have ordered comes with the package.
 
I went through the above because the real thing that I think you're asking is not which model, but rather which electronics package?
 
Here are some of my personal opinions on the matter:  
 
1. Rogue/Europa electronics are great for gigging because they are simple and fairly repeatable.
 
2. Signature, Anniversary, and Series packages are a bit more difficult to adjust on the fly but should give you marginally more control.  I don't believe these fine adjustments show up in the sound produced unless you're running stereo through a serious rig.  
 
3.  Anniversary and Series electronics can be run stereo if you want that level of control and sound processing.  This is great for recording or for running one pickup through effects while keeping the tone of the other pure and solid.
 
4. Pickups are functionally identical between all non-series basses.  You can upgrade to an optional pickup in a bass with AXY pickups that isn't available in the MXY shape.  Series pickups sing like nothing else.
 
5. If you want to try filters, pick up an SF-2 rather than a new bass.  It has more flexible control for about $500 on the used market and will make any instrument sound better once you figure out how to use it.
 
I guess the short answer is that what you need is based on what you're going to do with it...

[richbass939]

Thanks, everybody for the responses.  Bob, I suppose your SF-2 suggestion is the logical next step.  I really like my Epics 4 & 5 and don't savor getting rid of either of them.  I think I might try adding an SF-2 and see how it sounds and feels.
Thanks,
Rich

[keurosix]

Rich,  
The big jump in electronics difference comes when you add a second low-pass filter on the bass like the signature electronics package. Europa / Rogue has only one filter with a pickup pan control. You can get quite a lot of sound variation by setting the filter to resonate where you like the tone center, then altering the pan to change the color or emphasis. With 2 filters, you do something similar, but you have a filter for each pickup, so you have more tonal control. You can dial in a really peaky tonality on the bridge pu, and then dial in a mellow bassey sound on the neck pu for a complex character. Or.. the opposite. Or.. both pu's really peaked out (high Q switch setting), or.. the opposite.. really bassey on both for a killer Dub sound. Series electronics has a pu selector switch which allows quick tone changes, stereo sound, and more combinations. However, I am delighted with my Europa for simplicity and live sound with the bass and treble quick change boost switches. I would definately recommend the filter upgrade for your Epics. I did this for my Epic 5 string fretless, and it really helped make it a keeper. Go for the 3 position switch for more sonic flexibility. Also, I just upgraded my speakers from an SWR Goliath 4x10 & Big Ben 1x18 to an AccuGroove El Whappo, and the sound quality went from stage to studio. A great cabinet is sometimes the best investment in sound. You can't go wrong with the SF-2 either.
Kris

[jazzyvee]

I also use an Europa with an SF-2 in the chain and I can heartily recommend them for adding that extra to the sound. Most of the time I only need to add a little extra but the way it extends your sound is amazing.
 
It's keeping me  happy till I win the lottery and get a series bass.
The amount of bass available from the SF-2 is mindblowing, clean and room shaking even at low volumes. Fantastic quality.
 
I can't really say  I miss not having a second filter on the Europa I like others enjoy  the ability to dial in different sounds quickly and the fact that it has a distinctive tone from that of basses with two filters. That gives me a sound on the Europa that I can't get from other basses so I can choose a bass for the sound I want on a particular gig or rehearsal session.
 
Jazzyvee

[mele_aloha]

Keurosix,
 
Boy you are so right about investing in a good cabinet. When I recently got my set of Accugroove speakers it made my one pickup Excel go from kind of a so so bass sound to unbeleivable. This Excel sounds so incredible that I can't even imagine what my Series II is going to sound like. It is so clean with really metalic highs and fat fat low bottoms. Of course I am playing it through the Ampeg tube amp which is driving the accugrooves.
 
When I first got my Excel I only had a 100 watt fender amp. I would have never known that the Excel was such a good bass had I never gotten the Ampeg and accugrooves. I can't describe how much different (BETTER) the tone is just by changing amps and cabs.
 
My 2 cents. Thanks, Paul

[bigbadbill]

I recently tried my old '73 Ric 4000 (which is a great sounding bass, better than most 4001s)through an Ashdown Superfly and an Accugroove Tri 110 and it was like I'd been given new ears. I was very, very impressed. I'd never tried Accugroove before.