Author Topic: It's back...and i have a question.  (Read 345 times)

Jon Kon

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It's back...and i have a question.
« on: June 19, 2024, 03:40:52 PM »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/126537627587?itmmeta=01J0SA5RY64FGWYTVVT90F8YTM&hash=item1d763af7c3:g:JpsAAOSwNG9mc1Kv&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwChk%2BO7CNVuBoABosovotTWFFTbXhGoeSGw8R1cjpz7Smoj%2BdtE99lDjTvPIw0t58ShHLc46U0WuoEB7fsurEpc2CWMdS9SPTcEE9GZWLnxliGKd4vng36KxYOCR1mOeXR0jPqzB8u1%2FtXRDBo7OltXPDy9Hot1GN6czTpSTDz%2FSW4qK08a97MN4FgaTnPvVhNTgpe1ZytSpVIjOsbbFgT%2FhPcUWzLwGZQ1FU%2B4l0Nd0wB1qQiTQRlPJkhskahqy8g%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5KPl6qGZA

To the Alembic gurus at the mothership, would it be possible to install Series 1 electronics in this? It says the original "pre-amp" (I'm guessing the Fernandes version of DS-5) is included. Would I need an Alembic DS-5 if Alembic electronics were installed?

My apologies for all the questions, I've been really wanting a Series I guitar and am just curious how budget friendly this would be.

Thank You,
Jon

adriaan

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2024, 11:00:25 PM »
While I'm not a guru at the mothership, I'd hazard a guess that if they would install Series electronics in a non-Alembic instrument (which I don't think they will) the total costs would exceed what you would expect to pay for a used Series guitar.

edwardofhuncote

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2024, 06:26:39 AM »
While I'm not a guru at the mothership...


Maybe not in-house guru, just Yoda-level on advice.  :D


I was trying to think of a tactful way to put that, but Adriaan is on the button. If a Series guitar is your goal, don't settle for a modified Fernandes. Just shop wisely, and be patient. There is at least one I know of within the Club here that could be bought very reasonably.

With that said, this guitar you've posted here is a prime candidate for some Alembic electronics. They don't necessarily have to be Series electronics to be utterly fantastic. I took a rather uninspiring Japanese import and pitched all the original electronics and cheap hardware, replacing it with a set of Alembic Activators and much better hardware. It's an amazing guitar.

If I had this Fernandes guitar, I'd be thinking about installing a set of Signature or Anniversary electronics. Not cheap, but not prohibitively expensive either.

lbpesq

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2024, 08:00:03 AM »
While a more original body shape, my Fernandes MH-110 Masterhand originally came with Fernandes’ version of Alembic Series I electronics.   It wasn’t working when I got it.   I dropped in non-Series Alembic PUs and electronics.  It’s one of my most frequently played and gigged guitars.  You can see it here (scroll to the end for the “final” pics):

https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=20043.msg205426#msg205426

Bill, tgo

Jon Kon

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2024, 09:02:43 AM »
While a more original body shape, my Fernandes MH-110 Masterhand originally came with Fernandes’ version of Alembic Series I electronics.   It wasn’t working when I got it.   I dropped in non-Series Alembic PUs and electronics.  It’s one of my most frequently played and gigged guitars.  You can see it here (scroll to the end for the “final” pics):

https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=20043.msg205426#msg205426

Bill, tgo

Bill,

What was the process in getting these pickups/electronics. Also what was the price range. Feel free to PM if that’s preferable.


Jon Kon

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2024, 09:17:27 AM »



If a Series guitar is your goal, don't settle for a modified Fernandes. Just shop wisely, and be patient. There is at least one I know of within the Club here that could be bought very reasonably.

Do you have any more info on the series and seller?

gtrguy

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2024, 09:52:45 AM »
I'd drop in a total set of EMG active electronics and play the heck out of it. With that said, I think the total Alembic series electronics would be a pretty easy (and expensive) fit for a FAG. The FAG board runs on half the volts of an Alembic though.

hammer

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2024, 12:27:07 PM »
I don't know about Alembic not being willing to install their electronics in another company's guitar as they have certainly done it with Stafire basses, and I have a 5-string semi hollow body Moonstone bass with Alembic electronics (though in that case I belive they just sold the parts to Steve Helgeson who was Moonstone). However, those guitars are not outright attempts at copying Alembic.  I do agree however, that when you combine the cost of the electronics and the time you would be without the guitar, you are better off looking for a used Series guitar.

mica

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2024, 01:09:34 PM »
I agree with Adriaan that you're likely to do better price-wise finding a use Alembic Series I guitar. And while we do install Series I/II electronics in Starfire basses, we're not really keen on installing them in these Fernandes instruments.

While you are free to purchase other Alembic electronics systems from us to install yourself, the Series I and II need to be installed here.

And if you get a use Series I or II, be aware it may need an RF upgrade if it hasn't already been done.

lbpesq

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2024, 03:06:12 PM »
"Bill, What was the process in getting these pickups/electronics. Also what was the price range. Feel free to PM if that’s preferable."Bear in mind this was over 18 years ago.  I purchased the guitar from Fat Dawg at Subway Guitars in Berkeley.  He wouldn't sell it to me with the electronics not working.  He had some old Alembic electronics and he insisted on installing it himself before he would sell me the guitar.  It took about six months of hassling him before he finally "fixed" it and sold it to me.  He had put in an Alembic preamp, filter, and some non-Alembic PUs, EMGs, I think.  It was a pretty amateurish looking job with some open holes on the front where knobs used to be.  I purchased a set of single coils and a Q switch from Mica and had Gary Brawer do the installation, along with RMC piezo bridge saddles and a 13-pin connector for hooking up a Roland guitar synth.  Over the years I have picked up numerous sets of Alembic PUs/electronics on eBay and Reverb for relatively good prices, often around $300 or less.  They don't turn up often at those prices and, when they do, they don't last long.  You need to check every day.

Another option for Series I type electronics is the Aria Pro II RS 850.  A Strat-like body (as opposed to a direct Alembic rip-off), it came in two versions, one with a 3+3 head-stock, and the other with an in-line 6 head-stock.

Bill, tgo

Jon Kon

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2024, 03:45:26 PM »
I would like to thank everyone for such educational and helpful replies. My birthday is in September so maybe I can drop some coin on a real deal Series. For what it's worth Mica, I in no way meant to downplay the magic of an Alembic instrument. Patience isn't my strong point so I've just been brainstorming on something coming close to a Series instrument. It seems the fact is nothing does!

mica

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2024, 07:45:04 PM »
No worries, Jon!

gtrguy

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2024, 08:30:04 PM »
I have both a FAG and an RS850. Of the two, I much prefer the sound of the RS850. The middle pickup of the RS is sort of a dummy coil but it still puts out sound. It's very musical and has a nice electric guitar tone.

flavofive

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2024, 09:57:04 AM »
I also own a 1980 Series 1 guitar (and bass), and a FAG-170 (and FAB-170).  Jon, I had similar questions as you, because one of the pickups in the FAG-170 was dead when I received it, and the FAB-170 needed some minor circuit repairs.  So I've done quite a bit of research on the Fernandes FAB/FAG instruments, just to restore them!

As a thought experiment - Yes, theoretically you could do this, but I agree with others here that it might not be cost-effective.

- In terms of shape/dimensions and many of the components, it's functionally identical in many ways.  E.g. the XLR cable's pin assignments are exactly the same.
- To answer your question about the power supplies:  Yes, you can use a Fernandes power supply with Alembic electronics.  BUT I would recommend NOT to use an Alembic power supply with a Fernandes instrument, because the opamps in the FAG-170 have a slightly lower maximum +/- voltage than Alembic's, and Alembic's power supply does slightly exceed it.  The voltage difference is not 2x the voltage, but it's still slightly more.
BUT:
- Getting a full set of Series electronics is difficult, in the first place.  I may have seen someone sell a set maybe once(?) in ~20 years.
- Even if you do find a set, it will probably be very expensive.
- Sounds like Alembic will not sell/install it in a Fernandes, which I can understand - it could create even more of a confusing knockoff situation.  So you (or a shop) would need to do the install yourself.  I don't think this would be that difficult; the cavity dimensions are the same.
- Pickup dimensions:  Back when I was looking for a replacement for my dead FAG-170 pickup, Mica pointed out that the Series pickup dimensions have changed since the late 70s (when Fernandes presumably copied the dimensions).  So even if I bought a new Alembic Series guitar pickup to replace the FAG pickup, it would not be a perfect fit.  So to use an Alembic pickup, you may either need to do some routing, or end up with some "dead" space around the pickups.  For me, that was a deal-breaker.

In my case, I ended up building a custom replacement pickup.  It works great, and sounds identical to the other (working) pickup.  I can send you a link to a forum post I made about it, if you're interested.
For this guitar that is now on eBay:  It COULD be restored.  When the seller says that it includes the original "preamp", they might mean the original on-board electronics, which would be pretty much essential.  It sounds like the electronics have some issues that would need to be fixed.  This will probably be difficult for an average guitar repair person, because the electronics are way more complicated than a typical guitar, but someone who is good with circuits could fix it (it might just cost a lot, unless it's something very obvious like a loose wire).  I have a full schematic of a FAG/FAB, if you're interested.
The guitar would probably work PRETTY well at that point, it's just a bit weird with that EMG replacement pickup.  It could be replaced with a custom-built replacement like I did, though.  It didn't cost me that much, but it took a LOT of time!  For me, restoring a super-rare guitar was a fun project, and was worth it.

rv_bass

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Re: It's back...and i have a question.
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2024, 11:48:44 AM »
Jon,

I sent you an email, let me know if interested.

Thanks,
Rob