Author Topic: Motivation?  (Read 847 times)

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2019, 10:24:03 PM »
Lessons are always a good option. You never get to a point where they aren't helpful because getting an outside perspective is the best way to honestly assess where you are and what needs work.

I saw Benny Goodman on The Tonight Show toward the end of his life; he mentioned that he still took a lesson every week.

Quoth Johnny: "Why would you take lessons??  You're Benny Goodman!"

Benny:  "Well, I feel like I'm finally starting to make some progress."

Peter
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David Houck

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2019, 12:49:06 PM »
Johnny: "Why would you take lessons??  You're Benny Goodman!"

Benny:  "Well, I feel like I'm finally starting to make some progress."


    :)

glocke

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2019, 01:14:52 PM »
Lessons are always a good option. You never get to a point where they aren't helpful because getting an outside perspective is the best way to honestly assess where you are and what needs work.

I saw Benny Goodman on The Tonight Show toward the end of his life; he mentioned that he still took a lesson every week.

Quoth Johnny: "Why would you take lessons??  You're Benny Goodman!"

Benny:  "Well, I feel like I'm finally starting to make some progress."

Peter


Most can benefit from lessons (unless your name is Marcus or Stanley) from someone who has a deeper lever of understanding of their instrument and music in general . I started jazz bass lessons a month ago with the intention of becoming a better soloist.   Since I’ve been playing forever I figured the teacher would have me start in “advanced mode”.  Nope.  Pretty much starting at the beginning.  Major scales in “first position” using double bass lingo since the guy is a double player.


I was irritated at first and was thinking “but I know this stuff already”,  Long story short he’s right and I’ve alresdy noticed small improvements in my playing as a result. 

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2019, 02:37:33 PM »
Lessons are always a good option. You never get to a point where they aren't helpful because getting an outside perspective is the best way to honestly assess where you are and what needs work.

I saw Benny Goodman on The Tonight Show toward the end of his life; he mentioned that he still took a lesson every week.

Quoth Johnny: "Why would you take lessons??  You're Benny Goodman!"

Benny:  "Well, I feel like I'm finally starting to make some progress."

Peter


Most can benefit from lessons (unless your name is Marcus or Stanley) from someone who has a deeper lever of understanding of their instrument and music in general . I started jazz bass lessons a month ago with the intention of becoming a better soloist.   Since I’ve been playing forever I figured the teacher would have me start in “advanced mode”.  Nope.  Pretty much starting at the beginning.  Major scales in “first position” using double bass lingo since the guy is a double player.


I was irritated at first and was thinking “but I know this stuff already”,  Long story short he’s right and I’ve alresdy noticed small improvements in my playing as a result. 

A few years ago I was doing sound for a band who was unhappy with their bass player.  The lead player asked me to consider taking it up to repalce him, so I looked around online & found a site that teaches bass from the beginning. Sent the link to a friend who has been a pro bassist for about 50 years, asking him if he thought it was worth my time.

He told me "I hadn't thought about bass in those terms in years; I'm going through all his lessons myself'"

Peter (who, alas, let that idea slide when they found an actual bass player)
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

edwin

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2019, 03:38:39 PM »
Lessons are always a good option. You never get to a point where they aren't helpful because getting an outside perspective is the best way to honestly assess where you are and what needs work.

I saw Benny Goodman on The Tonight Show toward the end of his life; he mentioned that he still took a lesson every week.

Quoth Johnny: "Why would you take lessons??  You're Benny Goodman!"

Benny:  "Well, I feel like I'm finally starting to make some progress."

Peter


Most can benefit from lessons (unless your name is Marcus or Stanley) from someone who has a deeper lever of understanding of their instrument and music in general . I started jazz bass lessons a month ago with the intention of becoming a better soloist.   Since I’ve been playing forever I figured the teacher would have me start in “advanced mode”.  Nope.  Pretty much starting at the beginning.  Major scales in “first position” using double bass lingo since the guy is a double player.


I was irritated at first and was thinking “but I know this stuff already”,  Long story short he’s right and I’ve alresdy noticed small improvements in my playing as a result. 

Exactly what I do with my students because I teach a process, not licks. My students who practice notice improvements very quickly and the method integrates theory, ear training, and the physical issues of playing the instrument.

I need to take some more lessons, but my day job keeps getting in my way. Why did I ever do that?

jazzyvee

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2019, 12:02:00 AM »
Since having double bass lessons im starting to think more about where the notes are that have the sound i want instead of what fret l’m  aiming for. The difference is subtle but its helping me find my way round the fretboard on my electric bass too.
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glocke

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2019, 01:09:08 AM »

Exactly what I do with my students because I teach a process, not licks. My students who practice notice improvements very quickly and the method integrates theory, ear training, and the physical issues of playing the instrument.

I need to take some more lessons, but my day job keeps getting in my way. Why did I ever do that?

Yeah, i started noticing improvements after about two weeks..small, mainly in terms of note position choices, but also in my ability to keep tempo and feel the subdivisions better.  Teacher is Joe Solomon...he's got a good article out there titled "Doing it the slow way"...basically involves lots of drills and playing tunes at 60 BPM.

As far as the time thing/day job getting in the way goes. Same deal here, and I used that excuse for not getting back into studying bass for years...finally just ended up doing it..its effort..train rides from my home in Bucks County PA to Manhattan on Saturdays but it's worth it. 

hammer

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2019, 10:12:32 AM »
Getting back to Stephanie's original question about motivation of the lack thereof reminds me of some work I did many years ago with young children as a graduate student in child psychology.  I was supporting a study in which the researcher was interested in what would happen if one identified an aspect of play that a child was passionate about and then provided the child with tangible reinforcement for engaging in that mode of play.  As expected the amount of that type of play increased.  Of course that wasn't the real research question that was being studied. What we really wanted to know is what would happen after external reinforcement was removed. When that occurred, the amount of time children spent "playing" at what they had initially been passionate about decreased significantly to a point far below what it had been before they received any external rewards for it.  Providing an external incentive led children to experience a decrease in the intrinsic enjoyment (i.e., the motivation) they reported getting out of the activity.  They were now doing it not for fun and their sheer enjoyment but rather to obtain an external reward.

So how does all of this relate to Stephanie's question?  I think it brings out the difference between what we consider work and play. Work is typically thought to involve non-immediate/long-term/indirect return of gratification or satisfaction for oneself or others (e.g. wealth and health in long term, etc ). Play focuses much more on immediate/direct gratification that one gets from engaging in the activity itself (excitement, thrill, etc). Viewing work and play as entirely different activities is probably not terribly accurate as what is work for some can be play for others (whether or not one is being paid for the activity). A close friend of mine's work, for example, is as a pediatric surgeon. What does he do for "play?" He trims healthy trees and cuts down dead/diseased for his neighbors, friends, or anyone in the area who is aware of his form of play.  Not what I would consider "play" but for Dr. Bob it brings about immense gratification. If an activity offers you both happiness while doing it (direct gratification) and also gratification in long term (indirect gratification) it can be both work and play at different times and in different contexts.

It's interesting that when people talk or write about what they do with their instruments some refer to "practicing" while others indicate that they are going to "play" their bass/guitar, etc. Personally, I find "practice" boring and have needed to train myself to view it as "playing" or "playing with" my bass. Thinking about it that way I look forward to engaging in the activity rather than dreading it. So to make a long story a little bit shorter, find the "play" in what you are doing whether that's moving into new musical genres, playing in a new band, playing with a new instrument, or taking lessons.

P.S. My son has, over the years, become an exceptional blues guitarist. Never took a lesson, never formally studied the craft (other than taking a course in the physics of music while in college which culminated with his building himself a mandolin), and of course he "never practices."  Every time he picks up his guitar he just "plays it," "plays with it," or in GD terms "let's it play him."  I think it's one of the reasons why whenever I see him outside of his job as a carpenter he's got a guitar in his hands.

pauldo

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2019, 02:30:24 PM »
Brian, thanks for sharing that perspective.  The difference between “practice” and “play”, makes perfect sense.

My current career is one that finds me in a new realm that allows me to “play” with older engine lathes, milling machines, flat bed grinders and the likes.  We fabricate items to relatively tight tolerances but for me it feels creative and fun. The non-circadian work hours are a different story.   :o

StefanieJones

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2019, 08:12:23 PM »
Thanks for that thought provoking reply!

 It made me think about when I play versus practice. If I just play it is a much more rewarding feeling. But I feel like I can't play until I practice. Like learning new songs. The learning part is more like work but it's necessary and precedes the play part. I guess? 

I think the idea of letting go still really appeals to me. Over the last week and at the last show, I just tried to have fun and let go. It was different for sure, in a nice way. 

Maybe some of it is a learning plateau.  But I don't know where to go with that. There's nothing locally.  I'd have to travel to NYC I guess...  Maybe I'll try to play through the plateau...
 

Sorry about the train of thought reply. It's a lot to think about. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share with me. Much love.

gtrguy

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2019, 11:22:08 AM »
Complicated stuff! Like pre-destination versus free will, or which came first; the chicken or the egg.
One of mans greatest abilities is the ability to concentrate and achieve amazing things, and then to get bored with it and move on to something (or someone) else. Restless spirits reside in most of us.

glocke

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Re: Motivation?
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2019, 07:36:51 AM »
aybe some of it is a learning plateau.  But I don't know where to go with that. There's nothing locally.  I'd have to travel to NYC I guess...  Maybe I'll try to play through the plateau...
 

best way to get through a learning plateau is to challenge yourself with something new or something you know you don't do well.  Thats what Im doing with the jazz stuff.  It's a painful and humbling process but is paying off.  While I still can't play jazz very well, the process Im going through in learning to play that stuff is making me a better player in the non-jazz stuff. 

I'd say if you're able to get to NYC without a great deal of effort, do it.   Tons of great teachers up there as well as various workshops to attend.  Also down in the Philly area, Gerald Veasley has a bass boot camp which is a great way of picking up new ideas and skills.  I attended my first bass bootcamp this year, and regret not going to these before now.

You could also consider taking lessons from a non-bass player.  There's a sax player up there I'm considering taking some lessons in improv from at some point.