Author Topic: 3/4 vs Standard Point Body Size (Read 412 times)

mikedm · « **on:** June 20, 2003, 10:47:40 AM »

Hi,

This is for those of you that own or may have played a bass with the 3/4 sized point body. I've seen several in the Featured Custom archives.

Aside from the obvious difference in weight, how does it compare to the Standard Point body?

Any long scale owners with this body or is it primarily those also opting for the med, 32 scale?

If you know, how would you compare it to the smaller Jazz bodies Fender offers?

Other considerations?

I've tried the standard sized point and find it's size a bit unweildly. I usually practice sitting down. It is something I could get used to, but if i don't need to....

thanks in advance,
Mike

bigredbass · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2003, 11:34:01 PM »

While I've never held a 3/4 size Point, I can tell you that the full size body is barely neck heavy in my five string: I would certainly suggest (as would Mica, I believe) that IF you want a 3/4 body, you'd BEST get a 32 or 30 inch scale. I live with it as that shape is THE shape for me, the look of ALEMBIC that inspired me. But I've thought about some HipShot Ultralites more than once. I like the fact that it's a BIG bass. I'm 6'1, 220 lbs, and I like the fact that this big bass just LOOMS over the rest of the band!

As far as a Fender comparison, it just apples and oranges. The better Fender bodies (i.e., Warmoth) would have tummy cuts and the forearm rollover on top. I don't think (Mica?) that Points have either, they're just FLAT. But of course the real problem for me is that damn heel block and a bolt-on neck. I'm forever ruined to the smooth (read NO) heel of neck-thrus. And to me, the neck-thrus always front a better fundamental with the whole length neck.

In the 80s, I was Yamaha BB nuts. I owned a BB1600 (bolt neck) and a BB3000s(neck thru). This was a rare case of two guitars with identical hardware and mostly the same wood built both ways: the 1600 was alder bodied, maple necked and ebony fingerboard. The 3000s was alder winged, maple/mahogany neck thru, and ebony fingerboard. The electronics and hardware were identical. The 3000s carried the fundamental and first harmonic into the amp in a way that eluded the 1600 which was less fundamental but a great bass anyway. I never forgot the lesson.

I think the point would be fine in short or medium scale. You certainly would have a great bass either way, but I would go for a the medium scale if you can. There's more string choices, and the extra length would gain some harmonic information over the short scale from the longer string length.

J o e y

mikedm · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2003, 06:02:06 AM »

Joey,

LOL, yeah, I'd like to LOOM over the rest of the band too!

If the 3/4 really means 3/4 scale then it's considerably smaller (more akin to the SC size?). The 3/4 is advertised with contours, I'm only guessing that means the shape, not neccessarily any rollovers or cuts. I had a small bodied Jazz that felt 'just right', maybe it was a combination of the tummy and forearm sculpting.

While I don't have a neckthrough (I own an Orion), in the true Alembic fashion, the set-neck blends right into the body just as it's more expensive brothers. That is a very subtle, insidious and addictive feature. The Jazz only went to the 21st fret, but was a boogger to get to with out hitting a tree at around the 18th fret on the way there. Suddenly doubling the neck's thickness can be a nasty shock.

Judging from club members' commentary in other threads, there is no lack of performance or satisfaction from one model to another (what's that tell you?!). I don't think I could go wrong, or have Alembic let me make any ill-advised decisions. After all, they take as much pride in creating them as we do in owning them.

Thanks for the response,
Mike

(Message edited by groovelines on June 23, 2003)

valvil · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2003, 01:48:23 PM »

Hello Mike,

to give you my 2 cents, I'd say that for me, body size is important, but up to a point. What is more important to me, however, is how comfortable I am while playing in first or second fret position .
In other words, I like my left elbow to be as close to my body as possible, because if I am playing a lot of stuff below the fifth fret ( and that's where many of us are likely to be most times), I do not want to have my arm sticking straight out , because after a while it feels like it's about to fall off. I personally would not like a 3/4 size standard for that reason. The straplock is too far from the 12th fret for me. Even the regular standard body is slightly uncomfortable for me for the same reason, since I like the bass to rest somewhat high on my body. A Fender Jazz or Precision has the strap-pin very close to the 12 fret, so those have always been comfortable instruments (in that respect at least).
However, I'm just under 5'10; one of my best friends who is 6'2 , and arms to match, has no problem with those same models, because of course he has more reach and he doesn't end up with his arm straight out like I do. He also likes to hang his bass lower than I do.

I guess I would sum up by saying this: consider your size as well as the size of the bass, and your playing style as well. If you're tall or if I you like to keep your bass at belt level, then my above mentioned problem would likely not be a factor for you.
My feeling is that when you purchase a work of art like an Alembic you want to make sure that it's as comfortable as possible for you.

Take care

Valentino

palembic · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2003, 04:01:54 PM »

Val!!!!
Get lost!
You're supposed to be on holiday chasing beautiful women on southern European beaches and playing bass whole day and night!

LOL

Paul the bad one

bob · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2003, 10:21:22 PM »

Hi Mike,

Maybe my eyes are too tired tonight, but I don't see that anyone yet has directly addressed your question:

If the 3/4 really means 3/4 scale then it's considerably smaller...

To my understanding, Alembic always quotes scale length in inches. The 3/4 in this context means that the body itself is roughly that fraction of the full sized or standard body, and has nothing to do with the scale length at all. However, because of balance issues, they insist on using shorter necks, so I guess there's some relationship, but not in the sense of a 3/4 upright.

Speaking of which, if you (or anyone) happen to know offhand, what is the scale length of a true double bass, and a 3/4 upright, and are there any really popular sizes in between? And what's the scale length on a Classico? (the spec sheet seems to be trying to insert something there, without success for about a year now)

I know I'm a bit off topic here, but there's some related discussion in another thread right now, and with Moder Valentino off carousing in Europe I figure we can get away with it...

-Bob

mikedm · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2003, 05:11:44 AM »

Bob,

I didn't think it was the traditional scale length issue. I was hoping for some feedback from players that had experience with the smaller body. Yesterday, I went by the local dealer(somehow that just sounds wrong...) and was informed that the 3/4 scale body is slightly larger than a Jazz, just. One of their employees has owned several Alembics and was able to shed a little light. Val's comment about balance came up several times. Although I hold the bass in a slightly lower position than Val, arm/hand fatigue is a concern. I did play a MK while I was there and found myself raising the neck a few times to maintain a comfortable arm position, then again it was a five string....no easy answers. I'm not a big guy, only 5'11 and hands to match, so I'd order a med scale length anyway. Just wanted to kow how well suited the 3/4 scale body was. thanks,

Mike

yahyabb · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2003, 07:10:07 PM »

Mike, let me share a few thoughts. I prefer a 35 scale length, only for sonic reasons on a five string. Consider how you play, standing, sitting. Body style changes the position of the strings, tailpiece and pickups in relation to your hands. Take a look at a Balance Point Body vs. a Rogue. I've grown to like the string position of the Balance Point.

When you have an ideal string location for your playing style, styles; the question of neck balance can be addressed by the location of the straps and the length of the upper horn.

A smaller body can be less unweildly. Find a shape that works for you and feel free to modify it if required.

I'm still fine tuning the ideal body shape. Enjoy.

(Message edited by yahyabb on June 24, 2003)

mikedm · « **Reply #8 on:** June 25, 2003, 05:33:30 AM »

All of the comments have been helpful, glad this didn't turn into a circus. I'll just try as many as I can, unfortunately that depends on what's rotaing through the shop at the time. Usually balance points, Rogues(not crazy about them), Orions (have one), Excells and Essences. Hmmm, I wonder if executive management would authorize one of everything, just to be sure ya know....

thanks,
Mike

kevin_k · « **Reply #9 on:** June 25, 2003, 08:02:25 AM »

Mike,

I might be able to help you out. I just received the following:

MK Deluxe 5-string medium scale
7-piece maple & ebony neck
3/4 body
Omega cut
Many extras...

I had the same concern about the size of the standard MK body so I had it scaled down to 3/4. Also as a reference point I am 5'8 so it was suggested I go with a 32 scale. I reluctantly did so and do not regret it one bit. It is a perfect fit for me and the scale lenght matches the body size. (Not too long, not too short)

Now here is the important part. Due to the combination of my height, 3/4 body size and a 5-string ebony neck my bass does not balance any better then 3:00, without me holding the neck up. After explaining this to Susan she said ...this is not a problem, I will post some drawings with a balance point (extended upper horn) and after your aprroval we will make you a new one. Talk about 150% customer safisfaction guaranteed! What an amazing company!

Anyway, if you want a 4-string all maple neck with a 3/4 body I do not know if the balance issue I have experienced applies. If you want a 5-string 3/4 body with a medium or even long scale neck I would consider extending the upper horn if you want it to balance towards 2:00.

I absolutely love the look of the 3/4 body with a medium scale and am redoing everything with the same specs except the extended upper horn. I want to move the upper horn towards the 15th fret. I think that will still be in porporation with the rest of the body without giving it the rogue style upper horn.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask me any other questions you have.

Kevin

mikedm · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2003, 09:56:00 AM »

Kevin,

Wow, thanks, I guess there is hope.

I'm extremely interested to see how Susan approaches the extended upper horn. If it works, you may be responsible for creating a new look and helping out a number of other hopeful owners. Do you know if this will be handled in the Factory to Customer area?

I'm leaning towards the med scale regardless of body style. What are the top/back body lams and did you stay with the mahogany core?

If you can, could you post or email a pic of the current bass?

Thanks for the information, I'm begining to feel more at ease.

Mike

kevin_k · « **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2003, 09:38:59 AM »

The new bass will be posted in the Factory to Customer area. I emailed Susan this morning regarding the status of some drawings. I also am having second thoughts on scale length. When the upper horn is extended, the 3/4 body size vs 32 scale length may not be in proportion. I am inquiring about a 34 scale, 3/4 body with extended upper horn. If the 34 scale option is in proportion to the 3/4 body with extended upper horn and it balances, then I will get the long scale bass.

The bass I have now has the following options:

- Coco Bolo top & back with continous wood covers
- Mahogany core - 5 piece sandwich - (cb,maple,mahogany, maple cb)
- Inlaid Logo - Mother of Pearl for the clouds and abalone for the rest
- Abalone Inlays on the fret board
- Side Leds with on/off switch

I will try and post some pics next week.

mikedm · « **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2003, 10:59:19 AM »

Kevin,

Sounds great, thanks for letting me in on this.

I'm still not set on the scale length. Like most players, the 34 scale has been it. I'm was quite used to it...until I bought the 5 string. The extra width took some adjustment.

Your current bass sounds like a beauty.

Looking forward to the new construction (almost as much as you are).