Author Topic: To Be Video'd - Or Not?  (Read 258 times)

eligilam

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To Be Video'd - Or Not?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2009, 08:09:32 AM »
Given the changing times, the advent of youtube and the propagation of video capture modalities like cell phones and teeny tiny video cams, I think it's reasonable to suggest that anyone that plays out these days should expect to be taped in some way.  I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, but it's simply reality nowadays.
 
If you play out, and you lack a team of anti-image dissemination agents, you should reasonably expect your performance to be captured and posted in some manner.  Again, I'm not layering judgment on whether this is appropriate, I'm just saying that this is now the way it is.  
 
I'm wondering what the next phase will be...

artswork99

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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2009, 10:36:08 AM »
I'm wondering what the next phase will be...
 
Probably Holography

benson_murrensun

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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2009, 11:11:10 AM »
Is this the next phase:
 
Free minds, free bodies, free dope, free music.  
The day is on it's way... (from Hijack by Kantner, Balin, Slick, Blackman)
 
Naaahh, probably not...

adriaan

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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2009, 02:08:27 AM »
The next phrase, perhaps?

sonicus

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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2009, 07:57:39 AM »
Here is another angle in the definition of 'PRO ; the music provided is EXACTLY what the costumer is paying you for. As in playing JUST what is written on the sheet music for the sound track of the commercial. This is an analogy , but I think you get the idea.
 When I was in the High School Brass Band  I used to get in trouble for improvising parts  for where there were rests written for me  on the sheet music. I was  highly reprimanded by the conductor every time that I did that and eventually thrown out of the Brass Band . The Band Conductor (teacher) showed up at my  home room a few days later and asked me to come back and said that he was just trying to instill PROFESSIONAL BEHAVIOR ' in me!  My answer to him was ' I AM SORRY THAT I HAVE  DISAPPOINTED YOU SIR , BUT  I HAVE DECIDED TO PLAY THE BASS GUITAR IN A ROCK& BLUES  BAND INSTEAD  I still play Brass instruments as well as the Bass guitar . ALL in ALL   Jimmy is RIGHT , as Dave said as well.THE TAGS DON'T MEAN MUCH '  
                                                                   Thank you very much ______________!
 
(Message edited by sonicus on September 04, 2009)

jbybj

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« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2009, 09:22:40 AM »
I think the way copyrighted material gets shared in an unauthorized fashion, has different ramifications and results, depending on many factors.  
 
One of them being generational. I am 50 years old. When I was a teenager, I used to record and share with my friends, concerts of our favorite punk bands. I also bought everything I could from those same bands. It would never occur to me that a bootleg could take the place of a published release. I wanted it all.
 
In my adult life, I have been given many dozens of CD copies of bands I have never heard of. Most got a partial listen, never to be considered again. But a few, I fell in love with, and listened to often. This would start a long term appreciation of a band, with many purchases that, if not for an illegal copy being passed on to me, would never have happened.
 
I am of a mindset and a generation that I suspect, better understands the concept of supporting an artist, and intellectual property. For me, and many like me, the easy access on YouTube and through digital copies of music, has been a boon to expanding my awareness and appreciation of all sorts of artists. Some of these artists end up with my dollars, and the ones that don't, would never have seen them anyway.
 
If I had to guess, the poor kid who was denied Derringer's autograph on the bootleg, most likely bought the bootleg because he already had all of his albums, and simply couldn't have too much Derringer.
 
From what I hear on the internets though, the youngsters don't see it like I do. Many of the whippersnappers think it's their birthright to never pay for music. This is a shame.  
 
Maybe all the artists of the world should go on strike, see how long those little thieves last with NO NEW MUSIC to steal!
 
I guess the point I want to make is that this is nothing new. When cassettes came out, it was the end of the music business. Why would anyone buy an album when they could make their own copy for free? It happened again when recordable CD's became common, there goes the business.
 
I guess it's true, the old model, the big record companies, are going through some huge changes. But I suspect that the free and easy distribution of digital music, (the internet) has also enabled thousands of artists to sell and live off their art, that would have never been able to under the old way of doing business.
 
If you don't want to be videotaped, put up signs at the entrance. Make them sound scary, recorders will be confiscated etc. Have a roadie stand at the door and check for obvious tapers. Have a friend patrol the crowd while you are onstage. Still if someone captures your worst clam on tape, and posts it on the Tube, move on. Life is too short. If someone is going to make enough money for you to notice, from your intellectual property, then sue them.
 
If I were Bobby Torello watching myself on a bootleg tape, I would have demanded the $5 cover charge back!
 
(Message edited by jbybj on September 04, 2009)
 
(Message edited by jbybj on September 04, 2009)

bassilisk

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« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2009, 09:28:34 AM »
Well, this whole thread quickly took a left turn into what being a pro is. Not a bad thing in itself - it got a lot of responses but it wasn't quite the crux of the biscuit.
 
At any rate, tonight I'm back at a dinner club that lends itself to an intimate setting and is the place that precipitated this whole thing. The last two times we were there there's been one guy in particular who has appointed himself our official videographer. I've spoken to the rest of the band and only one or two are ambivalent - the majority are not comfortable having the evening's performance under his control. If he shows up he'll be asked to refrain from taping before we go on.  
It's clear we should expect some level of this in this day and age, but we feel he has exceeded our comfort limit. He already has way more than he should.
 
jbybj - I was writing my post while you were doing yours. I do understand your point about providing accessibility to material - I did all of that myself. However, we're not selling any original product.  
 
In an age where the boundaries of privacy are constantly being stretched without an individual's personal control I find myself defending mine ever more fiercly. It seems everyone with a camera feels they should be allowed to put you into the ether whenever/however they want, whether you are aware of what they're posting or not. THAT bothers me. Am I over reacting? Maybe. Our only product is the performance of the moment - it's not like copyrighted material but it is our selling point and what continues to get us work. As such I feel any representation of that should be in our control.
 
(Message edited by bassilisk on September 04, 2009)

afrobeat_fool

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To Be Video'd - Or Not?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2009, 12:45:39 PM »
Isn't this why ASCAP went after clubs instead of bands back in the 90's? It is easier to controll the clubs, they are stationary, than the bands playing the clubs. Just my 2 cents. But possibly it is the same with the share sites. If the unions go after the sites and make them pay heavy, what then? By the way, I'm not sure how I feel about this. I grew up in the time when a Zep, or Dead bootleg vinyl was the ultimate possession, and still have a few, including Dire Wolf(sonicus) from 69'. I don't care if my stuff is onsite, But I really do feel for cat's whose livelyhood depends on ticket, and media sales.  
 
Nick

jbybj

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« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 02:52:15 PM »
In an age where the boundaries of privacy are constantly being stretched without an individual's personal control I find myself defending mine ever more fiercly. It seems everyone with a camera feels they should be allowed to put you into the ether whenever/however they want, whether you are aware of what they're posting or not. THAT bothers me. Am I over reacting? Maybe. Our only product is the performance of the moment - it's not like copyrighted material but it is our selling point and what continues to get us work. As such I feel any representation of that should be in our control.  
 
I wholeheartedly agree. While most of my post was directed to the digression that occurred in this thread, I also offered what I hoped to be some practical, useful suggestions at curbing the unwelcome videotaping. If nothing else, knowing you are being taped will affect your performance.  A band of your reputation should be able to get some support and help from the club with respect to this problem. Good luck, and have fun...... JBY
 
BTW, I would love to check out your band, are you on YouTube?
 
(Message edited by jbybj on September 04, 2009)

keith_h

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To Be Video'd - Or Not?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2009, 04:00:28 PM »
Will,
Actually I agree with you about the change of opinion about ones privacy. I also fight to keep mine as much as possible. I also would not want performances with my band to have uncontrolled video and sound recordings by the audience. While many, if not all, of these recordings would present a positive view it only takes one person with an axe to grind to cause problems.  
 
As I said above there has been a shift in the way the internet generation looks at things. I say this with two children in their early 20's and a brother in-law not much older. In my opinion as this group has given up their own privacy freely they have come to the opinion everything should be available as openly and freely as the privacy they gave up. To be honest I am disappointed in the way the internet has turned out and it's effect on a generation but that is going off on a tangent.  
 
I think your idea of asking the person not to record your show or James suggestion to have a friend or staff handle it is a good start.  
 
Keith

dadabass2001

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To Be Video'd - Or Not?
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2009, 01:19:33 PM »
I had a hand in starting this on the JJ thread with my question regarding lost performances, and I have been taping myself (audio) for over 35 years (I have partial shows, and even rehearsal tapes from 1972, etc). I was influenced by the philosophy of the Grateful Dead regarding performance and structure. Barring technical failure, I have recorded every show and almost every jam session / practice I've been involved with. I made a stereo recording of the Alembic Chicago gathering at Bagend this spring.
 
I think the crux of this discussion is control of the materiel and the performance. My personal belief is that the artists always must retain the control that gives them their maximum level of comfort and artistic expression / freedom. Recording a show should always be cleared in advance before attempting, with clear understanding of the purpose and control of said recordings.  
 
To me, the composer is the paramount stakeholder in the final say regarding clearance, with the artists/musicians as seriously interested second parties. Both composers and performers have right of veto to any recordings they don't want to occur. I would use the methods discussed above by jbybj and Keith to control unauthorized recordings.
 
I have placed several full song audio recordings on MySpace, all are originals and all were cleared by the composers before posting. I have never uploaded a recording of a cover tune, because I have not sought or received clearance for any of those recordings.  
 
I feel a different approach might be argued for a cover band uploading short samples(fair use?) of songs in order to promote bookings, but at least it would still be under the control of the band, not an attendee.
 
Mike
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