Alembic neck construction

[chrisalembic]

Reading several threads on this forum about set up, graphite necks, truss rods, heat bends etc. I was thinking about the contruction of Alembic necks. 
We all know that Alembic likes to use multiple neck laminates for increased stability. But do the necks also have graphite bars/reinforcements in them? I know some builders swear by them and others leave them out mainly because of the impact on tone.



I was also wondering what Alembics idea behind the two truss rods system is. You do sometimes see this method on other 6 string basses and extended range instruments mainly to counteract a twist in the neck. The older Pre Gibson Tobias basses also had two truss rods but Mike Tobias stopped using two and switched to one truss rod later on. Stanley Clarke orders his basses with only one truss rod (maybe to allow for an extra small neck?). And if I remember correctly forum member Pierre Yves ordered his custom blackwood series II bass with one dual action truss rod (so a truss rod that can be adjusted in both directions). I guess this would solve the issue of not being able to get enough relief in with light string gauge (which would otherwise require a heat bend).
What are the benefits of two truss rods, especially in smaller 4 string necks? Extra adjustability, stability, tonal reasons? Are there any negatives regarding a single, dual action truss rod? Obviously history has shown that great necks can be build with either method. But when dealing with the unpredictability of wood every builder has strong ideas about whats best. In the end the neck is the most crucial part and the backbone of a stringed instrument.

[JimmyJ]

... In the end the neck is the most crucial part and the backbone of a stringed instrument.

In fact our through-body neck is almost our entire instrument.  The body is just glued on to the sides.

Yes the graphite necks Alembic began experimenting with in the late '70s were built as a long, mostly hollow beam which extended into the body.  I think were deemed so stable that they did not require a truss rod.  But as others have commented, that meant any bow or relief the customer wanted had to be built-in.  It also got complicated if for instance an ebony fingerboard was used because ebony can expand and contract with tremendous force introducing a bit of instability.

There was talk about adding graphite laminates to the neck "sandwich" when I was having a couple basses made in the late '80s  I had actually requested that on one instrument but I don't think the made it into the final build.  And I'm pretty sure it was never offered as an official option.

About the dual truss rod setup - and I'm only guessing here - I presume the reasoning behind that relates to our long two-octave necks which extend so far away from the body.  It's a longer span than most, particularly on long- and longer-than-long-scale basses. It makes sense that two rods would offer more control and fine adjustment capabilities

I think Stanley plays mostly short scale basses, so...

Jimmy J

[gearhed289]

Rickenbacker has used dual truss rods since forever. I don't know the exact reasoning, but it's never been an issue to me. They have recently been making some models with a single rod.

I've played a couple of basses with graphite rods in the neck, and I could swear they feel/resonate different than all wood. But there are so many variables, I can't say for sure it was due to the graphite.

[adriaan]

AFAIK graphite strips are added to 6 string basses by default. Double-action trussrods have been tried, but they proved problematic.

[Songdog]

Rickenbacker has used dual truss rods since forever. I don't know the exact reasoning, but it's never been an issue to me. They have recently been making some models with a single rod.

I recently spoke with someone who had extensive experience at the Rickenbacker factory (his initials are in the control cavity of my 4001). His story (as best as I recall it) on why they used two truss rods was that they didn't want to pay to license the Gibson truss rod design and came up with a different method (the so-called "hairpin" truss rod). They also didn't want to pay the cost of tooling to cut threads on hard steel, so used mild steel for the rods, and then found that a single rod wasn't strong enough to hold the neck in place, so they had to use two.

The Rickenbacker dual truss rods (both the old hairpin type and newer, more conventional type) are removable - if something goes wrong on one it can be fixed fairly easily. The new system with one dual-action truss rod does not allow removing the rod. There has been some rumor and innuendo that the new rods have had a high failure rate, which would be unfortunate on a neck-through bass.

Of course Alembic truss rods aren't removable - but my impression is that they're pretty robust and, with proper care, failures are extremely rare.

[chrisalembic]

It seems like the different build methods have their own pros and cons. While you probably have more fine tuning capabilties with two truss rods, in the wrong hands there is a likelihood of putting a twist into a neck instead of preventing one. A single truss rod might be more user friendly in that regard. 

Over the years the most common issue that I have encountered here on the forum (and on one of my Spoilers) was a "too straight neck" with no relief and truss rods completely loose. As string choice is such a personal matter and in direct relationship to individual playing style switching to more tension or higher gauge strings seems like a suboptimal solution. A dual action truss rod would certainly help in that regard. Anybody know why they proved to be problematic?

Some bass makers also have a truss rod that is reversible (as in can be taken out and flipped around). The benefit here is the possibility of adjusting the neck in both directions and also being able to remove a broken truss rod very easily even on a neck through instrument.

Dont get me wrong here, I am not critizing Alembic at all. They know much more about me in regards to bass building and I am sure they have their reasons for building their basses the way they do. Im just interested in learning about these things and also being aware of certain idiosyncracies with future instruments. This is coming from someone who loves lighter gauge, 100-40 strings

[bigredbass]

I think most here would say that the deluxe necks (with the contrasting maple/purple heart plies, with the standard 1/4" eb ony fingerboard) are far stronger than most neck constructions in other instruments.  Get one with the ebony laminates, and this stability is even greater.

In my experience, adding graphite rods or any other reinforcement would be a waste of time.  After the initial new build period, they usually settle down to a very serene life with only minor variations due to seasonal changes or big humidity swings.  I do my own setups and am very fussy about these things, and it was just an exercise a few times a year to see just how very little mine reacted.

The double truss rods follow the idea you can correct twist by offsetting the tension.  I'd be loathe to try this, and rare necessary (see above), but generally you do the setup for each side to matching end clearances.

Most of us would say generally (although EVERY builder has the rare occasion when one long-term just had that wood that just never settled down) these are ordinarily very stable instruments once you get them where you want them.

[gearhed289]

Totally agree. Both my former and current Distillates are rock solid. Once I got them where I wanted them, they've stayed put pretty well, even with our wacky Chicago weather/humidity variances.

[hammer]

I'd agree with the above and think that adding graphite (e.g., was done with Hyak basses) to necks that already include stringers/plys of purple heart, maple, ebony, etc. complicates things when it comes to providing the capacity for adjustment.

[pauldo]

Totally agree. Both my former and current Distillates are rock solid. Once I got them where I wanted them, they've stayed put pretty well, even with our wacky Chicago weather/humidity variances.

Same,  mentioned in a different thread, my Distillate neck has never needed an adjustment since I have owned it.  Just as wacky north of Tom’s local 8n Wisconsin, wet humid hot, to dry and cold.

[chrisalembic]

Yes, I also agree that you dont need graphite to have a stable neck. In fact I have a one piece maple neck bass without graphite that just never moves. Was just wondering whether Alembic has graphite bars in their necks or not as some builders like to use them (not only for stability) and some dont.

I guess my pondering about bass necks stems from reading this thread (and having had a Spoiler that I couldnt get enough relief in with my strings of choice):

https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=27924.0

And here I was also wondering whether a two way, dual action truss rod (or two) couldnt help the issue of backbow or not being able to dial in enough relief? And what the drawbacks of such a method would be?

[hdfixer]

My 6-string medium scale SII has 2 graphite bars along with ebony stringers and it's superb.  I haven't needed to tweak the neck much but they have not been an issue for exact adjustment?