Author Topic: Would this work? (Read 251 times)

crgaston · « **on:** August 22, 2006, 09:52:09 PM »

I have a concept for a rig setup and would like input as to whether y'all think it would work or not.

Start with an F-2B and a volume pedal. Run the instrument into channel 1 of the F-2B, and then run the channel 1 output into the volume pedal and back out to the channel 2 input of the F-2B. Use the mono out on the F-2B to the power amp. What I'm hoping will happen will be a clean sound (volume pedal off) which can gradually be driven into an overdive depending on the position of the volume pedal; i.e., the more volume pedal you use, the more distortion you get. Will the F-2B work this way, or will the presence of a cable at the output of channel 1 prohibit the use of the mono jack or vice versa? I am thinking that with a Mesa 20/20 power amp, this would be a seriously badass yet extremely compact guitar rig, if it will work.

Thanks for your time,

Charles

(Message edited by crgaston on August 22, 2006)

David Houck · « **Reply #1 on:** August 26, 2006, 06:32:36 AM »

Wouldn't the fact that when you increase the distortion you're also increasing the volume be a problem?

How about this? Run the guitar into a pan pedal. One side of the pan pedal goes to an F-1X and from there to one side of the 20/20. The other side of the pan pedal goes to channel one of an F-2B, channel one out goes to channel two in, and channel two out goes to the other side of the 20/20. Panning full to side one will give you your clean tone (F-1X); then as you start panning away from side one toward side two, you increase the distortion (mixing in the overdriven F-2B) without increasing overall volume. Panning all the way to side two would give you the maximum distortion as preset on the F-2B.

hieronymous · « **Reply #2 on:** August 26, 2006, 06:54:46 AM »

A couple of things I thought of:

1. Make sure you like the sound of the distorted F-2B.

2. I would think it would make more sense to have a distortion pedal and control the amount of distortion with either a volume pedal or the volume control on the guitar. Even if you want a compact rig, it's only one more pedal, or the same if you don't have the volume pedal...

It's an interesting idea though! It'd be nice if you could try it with someone else's F-2B - sounds like an expensive experiment.

crgaston · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2006, 09:35:29 AM »

Thanks, guys. I was really wondering about signal path as much as anything. If there's a plug in the channel 1 output of the F-2B, will there be signal present at the mono out?

The way I read the description of the F-2B, When it's daisy-chained like this, the ch.1 volume sets the gain level, and the ch.2 volume sets the master volume level. What this suggests, to me, is that you could have a loud, clean signal coming out of channel 1 and going, theoretically, to 2 places; the mono out, where it would appear as a loud, clean signal, and the channel 1 out, where it would be able to drive channel 2 into a distortion whose overall volume is controlled by the channel 2 volume knob. Keeping the channel 2 volume low would theoretically enable you to blend in distortion without drastically increasing the volume, but could be set to provide a boost for leads at the higher levels of distortion.

After writing this out, I am guessing that it isn't possible with a stock F-2B; that somehow the daisy-chaining process causes the mono out to come directly from channel 2 instead of being a blend of 1&2.

Harry, yes it would be great if I could try this out with someone else's unit. I guess I will just be left wondering for a while!

Dave, that would certainly be a great setup, but having separate preamps and cabinets for each channel exceeds the original parameters for the mental excersise. The volume issue is certainly relevant, but I am theorizing that by confining the higher levels of distortion to lead passages, this effect will be minimal. I could be totally wrong, though.

Thanks for joining me in my mental musings!

hieronymous · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2006, 10:49:21 AM »

I have an F-2B, but when I tried the daisy-chain thing, I went from channel A into channel B and then out of the channel B output - I never tried the mono out. I'm not sure what signal would come out of the mono out - I'll try it later if I have time!

I'm kind of hesitating to put this up, but I made a little recording of the daisy-chain distortion when I first got my F-2B:

alembic fuzz test

The first bass that comes in is the daisy-chained F-2B - the second is distorted with a Fulltone Bass Drive.

I hesitate because this most likely isn't the only sound you can get by daisy-chaining - it's a '60s Gibson with the big humbucker, and it pushes amps and pedals differently than other instruments. But I thought I'd put it out there for fun.

By the way, are you doing this with guitar or bass?

crgaston · « **Reply #5 on:** August 26, 2006, 11:38:06 AM »

WOW

That was pretty cool, Harry, or should we call you Fuzzy?

I am a bassist, but like to have a guitar rig around, too, and one that could do double duty would be even better.

For bass, I probably wouldn't ever get that distorted. My ideal bass tone has just a little edge on it.

If you get around to comparing the mono and ch. 2 outs, please let me know. If you have the channels daisy-chained, and the channel 2 volume all or almost all the way off, does the straight channel 1 signal still come through at full strength?

Thanks,
Charles

David Houck · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2006, 12:06:19 PM »

Cool!

hieronymous · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2006, 09:45:41 PM »

Well, I tried it. And it didn't work. I plugged my guitar into the A channel, took the A output and fed it into the B channel. Then I fed the B output into one track in ProTools, and the mono output into another separate track. But both gave out the same signal - distorted. I think you would have to split the A output with a splitter box or something.

But, having just reread your most recent post (Charles), I didn't try turning down the channel 2 volume. Hmmm, I'm going to have to try it again. Doh!

crgaston · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2006, 07:56:32 AM »

Thanks, Harry. You could try it again, but I think you gave me the answer already. If the 2 signals were indeed the same, then something is going on internally that prevents my idea from working. An external splitter box would work though.

Thanks again!

Charles

bsee · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2006, 08:34:54 AM »

There are other non-Alembic preamps that are specifically designed for this purpose rather than to be stereo preamps. At least, there are preamps with a second gain channel, though you may not be able to do the gradual conversion you speak of. I just got a Fender TBP-1 which uses the same basic tone control setup that the Alembic preamps use and has an extra foot-switchable gain tube. It may not use the same quality of components that are in the Alembic preamps or have been manufactured with the same care, but it seems pretty nice to me so far.

I am not sure how you would get the actual effect you're looking for. I would think you need a volume pedal set up to control the blend between a clean channel and an overdriven effects loop. I suspect that any of the custom pedal makers could build something like this if it doesn't already exist. Something like the Boss Line Selector pedal, only using a foot pedal to control the blend pot.