Truss rods stuck?

[cje]

Hi, all. I've been forever wanting to add more relieve to my Further's neck. I finally got myself some feeler gauges and other tools, as I had to set up my Les Paul, which I have not played in years while the Strat is getting a refret. Anyway - I remember trying years ago to unsuccessfully add my target amount of relief. The issue is the bass truss rod got me about a 1/4 turn before the nut became so loose that I could spin it with my finger around the rod. On the treble side, it's worse. I could immediately spin that nut on the truss rod with my fingers, no wrench required.


Now, the little I was able to turn the bass side did get me a little more relief, but not really enough. Generally, I like about .010" on the bass side and about .009" - .010" on the treble side.
Before tonight's adjustment, even a .006" gauge was directly hitting the high E string! Now after this tiny adjustment, the .006" JUST grazes the high E string, and the .008 goes under the low E, but does raise the string the tiniest bit. I'd say we are just under .008" at the bass side.


I am measuring with a capo just behind the first fret, and fretting at the 18th fret with my finger. I am measuring at fret 9. To add relief I was turning counter clockwise (standing at the lower bout and looking down the neck toward the headstock, but as I said, I am not able to get meaningful adjustments and no adjustment whatsoever with the treble rod.


This is not a new problem, it has always been like this. I am just revisiting it because I've been in setup mode with other guitars.


Can anything be done in this case? What's going on?


Thanks, everyone!

[edwardofhuncote]

CJ, if it's always been a little bit 'flat' (geometrically speaking) even with the rods slack, go up a gauge or even two on your strings. If using 10's, try 11's, or even 12's. Eventually the wood will respond to the tension.

You could also clamp some relief into it... with the strings off, and the rods slack, put a couple shims (popsicle sticks work well) under a sturdy board spanning the fingerboard and a clamp at each end providing some firm pressure. I use cam clamps with cork jaws, but you can improvise and use C-clamps as long as you use something to protect the back of the neck. Put the squeeze on it and wait a few days and check the relief again. If the wood has that much of a memory it probably won't help much, but if you just need a little, then that *little bit* might be it.

Just for an experiment, since you're in guitar setup mode, tune up a step for about a week. Put the guitar in its case, or somewhere it'll be somewhat uninfluenced by climate/humidity changes. See what that does.

Post back how it goes. 😉

[cje]

Thanks for this tip. I am hesitant to change out my string gauge for a multitude of reasons, but I do like the idea of tuning up a whole step and letting it sit for a bit. Happy to report back in a week or so.

[matbard]

You may need heat treatment on your neck: my 1980 Series I bass has a neck so stiff that with the dual TR completely slacked and TI flatwounds I have almost no relief.

[lbpesq]

My custom Further, “Woody”, had a similar issue.   Even though I completely loosened the truss rods, the neck was completely straight with no relief.   Luckily, I live close to Alembic.  The mothership performed a heat bend on the neck which resolved the problem.  I have since done my own heat bend on an old Rickenbacker 330 that I restored after it was damaged in a fire.   I used clamps to pressure the neck in the direction I wanted it to bend, wrapped a heating pad around it, and left it for 3 days.   Worked great!

Bill, tgo

[edwardofhuncote]

I just happen to be up here working on a Taylor T-5 this evening and got the neck off easily accessible for a demo. Here's how the clamp jig works, and like Bill TGO says you can apply some heat from a heating pad. Sometimes a little does a lot.

[cje]

Wow - great pictures. I'll need to think about rigging something up that is sturdy like that. I really appreciate the visual aid!

[flavofive]

Gotta be honest, I have had the "backbow" problem (i.e. neck doesn't have enough relief, even with truss rods fully loosened) with both of the Alembic basses I have owned, and I've heard quite a few other people report it.  Seems to be a much more common problem with Alembics than the opposite (too much relief / forward bow).
First bass, I sent it to Alembic for a heat press.
Second bass, I did it myself.  It actually worked out well; it got just enough relief for what I need, and it hasn't "relapsed" since then - 3 years and counting.

I like edwardofhuncote's setup above.  Just offering my experience as well - back when I did it, I wrote down all of the steps, anticipating that I might need to repeat it again someday.  Here it is; the info might help you or anyone else.  I don't know if this is the "best" way to do it, or if it's 100% correct, but it worked for me.
It's similar to what edwardofhuncote did, but just taking a different approach to the clamping part.



Of course - do this at your own risk.  And be very careful if you use a heat gun.  Don't heat it up beyond the temperatures below.



1.   Completely loosen the truss rods.
2.   Set aside an area on carpet where the bass can lie, or place a towel on the ground if no carpet.
3.   Set a solid board (e.g. a 2x4) on the ground where the headstock will go, perpendicular to the neck.
4.   Set another very solid, long board parallel to the neck, elevated at one end by the board in #3 above.
5.   Set another board right above the board in #3.  This will support the neck, right below the headstock.
6.   Place towels or other pads where the bass will make contact with the boards.  Then place the bass on top.  See illustration below, showing the setup up to this point.
7.   Place a remote "probe" type thermometer (I used a food thermometer) on the neck, roughly in the middle (although this can be adjusted to check the temperature at different points).
8.   Fold (2) heating pads around the neck (and thermometer), placed side-by-side to cover the whole neck as evenly as possible.
9.   Wrap (2) towels around the whole neck and heating pads, to help evenly distribute the heat inside.
10.   Turn on the heating pads to highest setting.
11.   Wait a couple of hours for them to come up to temperature.  Check the thermometer every so often to monitor the temperature.  It will probably only get up to ~145-150 deg F or so.
12.   My understanding is that the neck needs to be heated to at least 165-170 deg F for the heat press treatment to work, but the heating pads alone will not do this.  So I then did the following:
o   Make sure the thermometer is on.
o   Unfold the towels and heating pads just enough to expose the neck.
o   Plug in a heat gun, and turn up to high.  Keeping about 1.5 feet away from the neck, blow straight down onto the neck, sweeping back and forth at a slow-medium rate to heat up the neck as evenly as possible.
o   Keep a constant watch over the temperature.  I got it up to 190 deg F and stopped there.  If it's not heating up much, get the heat gun a LITTLE BIT closer to the neck bit by bit, until it's obvious that the temperature is rising.
o   Once it hits the target temp (190 deg F), quickly re-fold the heating pads and towels around the neck to keep the heat in as much as possible.
o   Turn off the heat gun, and place it somewhere to cool.  DON'T PUT IT DIRECTLY ON CARPET, TOWEL, OR OTHER SURFACE THAT THE HEAT MIGHT DAMAGE.


13.   I left the heating pads on for another ~2 hours to preserve some general heat.  (Could also try leaving the heat on for longer.  Not clear what duration is necessary.  Could also repeat the heat gun application at this point, per above.)
14.   Unplug the heating pads.  Let the bass cool down for at least ~8 hours.  I'm not sure how much time is necessary, but some people recommended this.
15.   Check the relief.  If it is not enough, repeat the heat process.  I think I needed to do it 3 or 4 times total, but depends on the instrument.





I do have a couple of photos that help illustrate steps 7-15, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the formatting here, getting the sizing right, etc.  If you want to see them, feel free to email me and I can send them to you directly.