Author Topic: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch  (Read 1291 times)

rv_bass

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Re: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2022, 04:42:30 AM »
My Orion had a filter, Q and, Pan Filter, it was snug but everything fit.  Orion’s are great basses!  :)

https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=23079.0

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2022, 06:20:18 AM »
Man, I had forgotten about that one Rob. Fretless too!

rv_bass

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Re: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2022, 07:13:44 AM »
Yah, that’s one I should have kept :)

keith_h

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Re: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2022, 08:32:19 AM »
So, are you all saying that a Q switch only works well with a filter and with the Epic bass /treble it won't affect it ?
I have a horse in the race, so I need to know, too. My Orion is a PERFECT bass, but I've been curious if a Q would make a difference.

The Q-switch only applies to filter based tone controls not the bass/treble you have in your Orion. When turned on the Q-switch in the Alembic low pass filter boosts the frequency the filter is set at.

Isn't the "East meets West" concept the meeting of bass/treble controls (East) with filter/Q (West)? I have never had anything other than filter/Q controls, so not totally sure...

EMW combines the standard bass/treble controls of the Orion/Epic with a filter and Q-switch. So it is a hybrid of the two methods of tone control and is what I have in my fretless Orion. 

jazzyvee

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Re: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2022, 11:03:05 AM »
I have never really grasped how the EMW configuration works because if you close the filter down and then turn up the treble control then wouldn't that be trying to increase the treble you have filtered out. With my limited electronics knowledge would i be right in thinking that the EMW layout is a parallel arrangement where the combined pickup output is split into a a sort of two channel mixer that allows you to process both "E" and "W" controls independently then sum them together at the output. I guess that would make sense then.
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
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edwardofhuncote

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Re: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2022, 11:46:05 AM »
I lack the proper terminology to describe how they work, but perhaps the answer lies in the Bass and Treble controls themselves. For Epic/Orion (or EMW equipped basses) these controls are asymmetrical boost/cut functions, +6dB and -15dB, centered around 100Hz and 5KHz for the bass and treble respectively. That info is from the Epic 'Controls' section, so I'm just assuming it applies to both. I'm only guessing the filter doesn't filter these frequencies out completely.

*edit, found this elsewhere-

On Alembic instruments, the low-pass filter frequency control has a range of 350 Hz to 6 kHz. That means if you leave it wide open (6 kHz), you'll basically allow all useful frequencies (for a bass) to pass, and it won't really act as a filter at all. On the other hand, if you set it to the minimum of 350 Hz, then you are starting to filter out some of the highest notes.  

From firsthand experience, on my fretless - it is not only possible, but in fact a very pleasant sound to roll the filter back closed to about 20-30% open, bias the pickup balance to favor the bridge, and boost the bass a bit while cutting the treble just a smidge. Or the opposite; pan more to the neck pickup, open the filter, brighten up with the treble pot and roll off a bit of fluff with the bass EQ. Or go straight up the middle with the blend, and leave the EQ flat. (there's a center detent in mine...) and dial the filter wherever you need it to be. Don't get me wrong, I love all my Alembics, and their various electronic workings, and there isn't anything on Earth that sounds like a Series bass, but I definitely made the right call on this one. It's like a modern, more adjustable take on the old Distillate circuit to me. Simple, but very adjustable. Perfect for what I do.


And that purple Elan sounds marvelous, Jazzy.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2022, 12:03:01 PM by edwardofhuncote »

keith_h

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Re: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2022, 12:34:18 PM »
I'm not sure how they are connected electronically. The way I tend to set the controls is with the filter wide open I set the bass and treble where I want them. I then use the filter to shape the result. I've also found I tend to boost the bass some and leave the treble control in its flat position or slightly boosted. This ends up with the filter being my primary means for controlling the amount of treble.

Trying to work from ancient memory here so am waiting for corrections. When you are boosting the treble you are not just boosting the one frequency the control is centered on but a band of frequencies above that. So depending upon the filter setting you might only be removing part of the boosted frequency range. To answer your question, yes it is possible for a filter to remove all of the boosted frequencies if it is below the cutoff frequency for the treble control. On the other hand you have the potential to put the treble on steroids by boosting those frequencies and turning on the Q-switch with the filter wide open. Not that I'd ever play that way.

gearhed289

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Re: Difference in tone in epic stock vs epic w q filter and switch
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2022, 08:02:29 AM »
I have wondered the same thing as Jazzy.

The way I tend to set the controls is with the filter wide open I set the bass and treble where I want them. I then use the filter to shape the result. I've also found I tend to boost the bass some and leave the treble control in its flat position or slightly boosted. This ends up with the filter being my primary means for controlling the amount of treble.

This makes sense. I have a Distillate with the bass and treble switches. I pretty much always have the bass boosted and the treble flat, then use the filter to shape. I will occasionally engage the Q switch, but rarely the treble boost.