Author Topic: Philosophical/Technical Question for Guitar Players  (Read 299 times)

David Houck

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Re: Philosophical/Technical Question for Guitar Players
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2021, 01:42:12 PM »
Going from acoustic bluegrass to electric; one player who did that famously was Clarence White.

StephenR

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Re: Philosophical/Technical Question for Guitar Players
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2021, 01:57:05 PM »
Hey Greg... agree with Rob about spending time listening to the Dead from 72-74 if you want to get a handle on Weir's style. His playing really started to develop in a nice way by late 71 when the songs they were writing were less psychedelic and more Americana. That is a good era to listen to since the writing at the time became more about the song and creating a unique form for it and the playing of everyone in the band reflected that. Weir's tone was way better in the early 70s and the mix of the instruments clear and separated making it much easier to hear what everyone is doing. As the years passed Weir started to "devolve" his rhythm style, IMO his tone got worse, and instead of all the big interesting chord inversions he tended to play smaller chord voicings that were more like accents than rhythm parts. His earlier style was much more "conversational", rhythmic, and responsive to what Garcia was doing.

Another thing I find different about playing electric guitar, as opposed to bass or acoustic guitar, is that the amplification itself comes much more into play. I like a really clean sound when playing bass which allows me to hear how I am manipulating the tone with my hands but the majority of the tone is the bass I choose and my hands.  With a guitar the hands are still the starting point but it takes time to learn to control and work with the amp to get good electric guitar sounds, especially at louder volumes. With amplified acoustic guitar you want it to still sound like an acoustic just louder. For electric, especially if you are playing lead, working the amp, having a bit of distortion etc. really add character to your playing.

And as already suggested you will make the most progress if you play with others, a lot of musical growth is tied to real-world playing and experimentation in a group setting, but that is true of any instrument. Good luck!

lbpesq

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Re: Philosophical/Technical Question for Guitar Players
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2021, 04:36:46 PM »
CAGED is a way to learn different fingerings for chords all over the neck.  Start by paying a C chord in open form.  Then play the C chord using the fingering for open A on the 5th fret. Move it up to an open G form on the 7/8 frets.  Up again to the open E form starting on the 8th fret, and finally the open D form starting on the 12th fret.  Hence "C A G E D" .     A lot of what Bobby does is using many different voicings of the chords all over the neck. 

Bobby is a very unusual rhythm guitarist.  A lot of what he did with the Dead was almost more lead with chords than rhythm.  And he had to be very reactive, listening to Jerry and Phil and finding relevant things to play that melded the lead and bass.  And often it was not a question of what Bobby was playing, but more what he wasn't playing, if that makes any sense.    Another rhythm guitarist you might want to study is Keith Richards.

I have also found I need to approach things differently when playing with keys as opposed to a two guitar/bass/drums band.   

Bill, tgo
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 04:38:20 PM by lbpesq »

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Philosophical/Technical Question for Guitar Players
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2021, 08:31:36 PM »


Bobby is a very unusual rhythm guitarist.  A lot of what he did with the Dead was almost more lead with chords than rhythm.

In trying to explain to the uninitiated why they were The Greatest Rock'N'Roll Band In The History Of The Universe, I have often said that it wasn't rhythm & lead as most people understand it, that Jerry played linear leads & Bob played chordal leads.

And he had to be very reactive, listening to Jerry and Phil and finding relevant things to play that melded the lead and bass. 
Bill, tgo

The esteemed Mr. Jerome John Garcia in an interview I saw in the '80s:  "His (Bobby's) playing provides the only context in which my playing really makes sense."

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the_home

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Re: Philosophical/Technical Question for Guitar Players
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2021, 08:35:37 PM »
I have always thought that learning to play your amp is equally as important as learning how to play an electric guitar. It is essential in getting the tone and vibe you are looking for as a rhythm player. Good luck.
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edwardofhuncote

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Re: Philosophical/Technical Question for Guitar Players
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2021, 04:37:57 AM »
Going from acoustic bluegrass to electric; one player who did that famously was Clarence White.

How in the world did that get by me?! Yes, indeed. Will search up some of The Byrds.

CAGED is a way to learn different fingerings for chords all over the neck.  Start by paying a C chord in open form.  Then play the C chord using the fingering for open A on the 5th fret. Move it up to an open G form on the 7/8 frets.  Up again to the open E form starting on the 8th fret, and finally the open D form starting on the 12th fret.  Hence "C A G E D" .     A lot of what Bobby does is using many different voicings of the chords all over the neck. 

Bobby is a very unusual rhythm guitarist.  A lot of what he did with the Dead was almost more lead with chords than rhythm.  And he had to be very reactive, listening to Jerry and Phil and finding relevant things to play that melded the lead and bass.  And often it was not a question of what Bobby was playing, but more what he wasn't playing, if that makes any sense.    Another rhythm guitarist you might want to study is Keith Richards.

I have also found I need to approach things differently when playing with keys as opposed to a two guitar/bass/drums band.   

Bill, tgo

I read into this last night before wiping out... I kinda' instinctively was doing this anyway, and didn't know there was a name for it. Playing those same shapes further up the neck. For me, it started years ago with D shapes. (I don't remember why, but I do a lot of things backward) And you are absolutely right too about "what Bobby wasn't playing". What he does works, I think purely because of the context. (alluding to Coz' quote of Jerry here...)

I have always thought that learning to play your amp is equally as important as learning how to play an electric guitar. It is essential in getting the tone and vibe you are looking for as a rhythm player. Good luck.

This too. As a bass player, the volume knob on my bass is pretty much a convenient [ON/OFF] switch. And my basses are clean-clean-clean, loud-loud-loud as I need. At some point I discovered with these guitars and amps, a LOT of the sound is determined by how much I drive the front end of that amp. (playing a Fender Princeton 65 RI) Somewhere between 4 and 5 on the volume the tubes start to get that good fuzzy. I keep the volume(s) on the guitar dialed back to 3/4 - 7/8 open, until I want to get more of that effect. Yeah, that took a while to get through my thick skull... turn guitar down, turn amp up.   

Thanks for the advice and pointers fellas. I'm just gonna' freestyle it for a while and enjoy the sounds. I won't likely sound like Jerry, Bobby, or anybody else, but I'm really hoping what will happen is that I can get to a place that there's an ability to pick up the instrument, and interpret the tune without it being a failed attempt at note-for-note. I've never really done that with anybody... I always liked to adsorb the music and let it get in me by osmosis. It tends to come back out better that way. Hopefully I'll be able to get in on a pick-up jam or two after I've gotten to a jam-able stage.  :)