Author Topic: When is an Alembic considered an Alembic? (Read 151 times)

hendixclarke · « **on:** July 15, 2008, 12:42:48 PM »

What is the bare minimum configuration for someone to claim its an Alembic?

In otherwords, what if the pickups were different or and the body was Alembic? Or what if the body was different but the guitar had Alembic machinery (pickup, tone controls, bridge, strings, tone machines, etc...)

Is it based only on the body only? What are the exceptions?

I can't wait to read your feedbacks on this one...

lowlife · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2008, 12:49:31 PM »

I cannot see the shape or the electronics or the hardware having any effect on the name. IMHO if it came out of the Santa Rosa plant, and has a registered serial number recognized by the Wickersham's, then it's an Alembic.

Ellery (Lowlife)

olieoliver · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2008, 01:02:12 PM »

When Mica says it is!

OO

hendixclarke · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2008, 01:04:41 PM »

So, in this case its based on the serial number of the body alone. If the person makes changes, would you personally consider this an Alembic?

This is the heart of my question. I am sure everyone would agree with you about the serial number fresh from the oven factory... But my question is personal from the perspective of what you would still consider kosure as an Alembic to the degree of a major custom change.

For example: I can take a Harley Davidson body (frame) with the serial numbers... would it still be a Harley Davidson if I installed a non-Harley Davidson Engine of my preference?

In otherwords, how pure does the guitar has to be before the essence of Alembic is questionable or gone too far in your opinion beyond the factory?

lowlife · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2008, 01:32:09 PM »

Remember, that this is strictly my personal opinion, and having been said, taking your after-market customizing into consideration, my opinion would be that although it was constructed (originally) by and from Alembic, and though it may still carry a legit serail number, I personally would still consider it to be an ?lembic, but not valued the same. The name (to me) carries a certain value and non-Amembic customization changes the value.

So it would seem that Alembic is not just an array of parts and materials, it is the sum of the original as it left the factory.

Others will no doubt have their own opinions.

Ellery (Lowlife)

LMiwa · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2008, 02:20:45 PM »

IMO...

As with fine art, antiques, collectable cars, etc., provenance is VERY important. If it was born in the Alembic factory, it's an Alembic. If it's too badly mangled, it's still an Alembic, but just one with very little value.

Any and all modifications, even those made by the mothership, should be documented and disclosed. I would expect that non-factory modifications would negatively affect the value of the instrument. Only something like Stanley made this change when he owned this bass... and then FULLY documented, might be of value to someone. Many factory options/mods should also increase the value (e.g. changing bass/treble to filter/Q).

While any instrument can be improved by adding Alembic parts/electronics and then described as with Alembic _____, such an instrument is not an Alembic, even though it may sound great.

Just my opinions...

hendixclarke · « **Reply #6 on:** July 15, 2008, 03:00:30 PM »

I am happy you guys helped give me a perspective -- for it matches my ideas at the core.

I to, believe it is an Alembic right out the gate, and regardless what someone does, it is still what it is.

What's your thoughts of value if someone takes a Fender body and uses only Alembic parts, (bridge, electronics, tone machines, series I/II electronics, pickups etc...) Would this lower the value of the Fender or add value?

wideload · « **Reply #7 on:** July 15, 2008, 03:46:32 PM »

I guess changing everything on a Fender is like customizing a Honda Civic- it may run well, but it will never have the value or panache of the Ferrari equivalent, the Alembic.

hendixclarke · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2008, 04:15:32 PM »

Well said... I agree hold heartedly. Alembic parts is not enough. It must be the whole thing for me.

But, I am open minded for those who created/use hybrids too. It's all good with me as long as it still makes good music.

rockbassist · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2008, 05:29:06 PM »

My feeling on the subject is that if it is a high end bass such as Alembic, once it has been modified it is no longer a true Alembic. The only exception is if it has been modified for the owner by Alembic. For example, adding a filter to an instrument that did originally have one. Same for any other high end bass. If it's a Fender, Warwick, etc, it can still be called by it's name even if it has had some slight modifications such as having the pickups or bridge replaced. Generally, the reason we spend so much money on Alembics is because we love the way they sound and play without modifications. I have never felt the need to modify any guitar or bass that I have ever owned. If I don't like the sound as soon as I play it, I won't buy it. My 76 Precision, 78 Jazz bass and 97 Epic are all completely original.

bsee · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2008, 07:11:37 PM »

There's a difference between is it an Alembic? and is it an Alembic that I would own? I have to agree with some of the previous posters on the definition of an Alembic. If they built it, then it's theirs no matter what mods are done to it. It may lose substantial value, but it still carries the name.

However, I have always said that it is the guts that truly separate Alembic from the rest of the custom builders out there. There are a handful of builders that are the equal of Alembic on the woodworking side. None better, but several on the same level. If you dropped Alembic guts into one of their instruments, I'd want to own it.

It's sort of an oxymoron. The body/neck is still an Alembic without the guts, but it's the guts that carry the most weight in determining the value to me. The electronics make it the instrument that I want to own above all others.

dannobasso · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2008, 08:46:27 PM »

I have a bunch of Alembics. I have a few other basses of other makers. One is a Stambaugh med scale 4 with Alembic Signature guts. It has the sound and some of the feel of the Stanley I traded (for another Alembic) . But they miss the mark on the details. Fit and finish is good but not as good as the Alembic. The attention to detail is a bit off. Screws, cuts, layout, hardware is not up to the Santa Rosa Standard. It is virtually the same build recipe, PH neck lams, highly figured top, accent lam. adjustable nut, gotoh tuners. nice double dragon inlays. But the mark is just shy of the inspiration.
So to me an Alembic is an Alembic when it comes out of their shop, with their name on it. I enjoy playing all of the basses they made either for me or others that I bought used. The experience is consistent from my 83 to my 08. I can't say that of other brands.

terryc · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2008, 01:36:14 AM »

I have a old 83 Squier Precision with Alembic Activators but it is still a Squier.
I cannot think of any reason why I(or anyone) would replace any pickups or hardware on an Alembic bass unless it was original parts from Alembic due to failure of the originals.
In my opinion keep it all original, if you look at very old Fender guitars it would totallly devalue a 57 Precision if it had Gotoh tuners, Baddass Bridge and an active pick up.
If it leaves the factory as an Alembic I intend to keep it that way