Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Showcase => Series I Basses and Guitars => Topic started by: slam630 on July 28, 2003, 11:15:48 AM
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Hi I am a new member and this is my first post and my first Alembic. I got this bass a few days ago and I can't seem to find any information about it on the web site. I talked to Mica about it and she suggested that I post the pic here. Does anyone have any knowledge about this bass? I was told when I got it that this is a very old Alembic bass.
It seems to be missing the switch on the front bottom horn. Also the two switches are both two position switches. Also I think the headstock has been repaired.
Thanks for your help.
David
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5519.gif)
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David - Wow. That is quite interesting. Does this bass have a serial number? It looks like an early one. The serial number should be located on the very tip edge of the headstock. It is stamped on both sides of the point, one side being the year, and the other side the actual number of the instrument. Those look like series 1 electronics and those 2 way switches are not original. I would bet they should be 3 way switches on that bass. Also, do you know the scale length of that instrument? Michael
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Hi Michael,
It has some numbers on the headstock edge. There seem to be two different types of stamps that were used to put the numbers on the headstock. On the left is a very clear 4 and Im not sure if there is a faint 7 before the 4.
On the right side there are more numbers and it looks like two different stamps ere used. Looks like there were some numbers there that got restamped by a larger stamp. Hope that makes sense. The numbers that are the same size as the left side numbers are either 64 or 164. Stamped over those number are bigger numbers that are stamped more deeply into the wood. Those are 106 and then the stamp was turned perpindicular to the other numbers and a 4 was stamped.
More details: under the neck plate is the trussrod and under the middle plate is the battery.
Can you send a link to an explanation of the electronics? Im still trying to figure them out. Also the xlr does not seem to work. Should I be able to plug it straight into a mixing board?
Im really trying to find out as much as I can about this bass before I finalize the trade. I need to make a decision by next Monday, August 4.
Thanks for your help.
David
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David - If the bass were a 1974, the serial number would be in the 64 range. BUT, by serial number 64 the batteries were moved to the back of the instrument and not under the front plate of the bass. This bass could be older, or not. They were experimenting back then. If the bass were a 1974, then the pickups were definately changed. The pickups used back then only had one screw hole per side and not two. Also the Alembic embossing did not show up on the pickups until MUCH later. But I guess without a clear serial number, than it would be hard to tell what this bass started life as. With a good serial number Mica can usually tell all. As far as the XLR is concerned, that cannot plug directly into a mixing board. The XLR connector on that bass should be a 5-pin and not a 3-pin connector. The 5-pin connector is used with an external power supply. The power supply of course supplies power to the on board electronics and splits the signal for stereo operation. Is there any way you can get pictures of the inside of the instrument? From what you are describing, the bass may not have series electronics at all. If the positions on the toggle switches are only 2 way, you may have a bass that was fitted with signature electronics. Without holding that bass in my hands, that is about as far as I can go. Anyone else?
Michael
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One more thing, (I feel like Colombo)you mention that under the front brass plate is the battery. Did you mean batteries? The series electronics are an 18 volt set up. It would require 2 9 volt batteries. If there is only one battery, you may have signature electronics installed. That would explain why the XLR does not work!
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Michael, thank you so much for all your insight. I wonder if this is a fake Alembic? Or perhaps an old one that got a lot of work done on it. When I talked to Mica she stated that they have always sold the parts that make up their basses. Seems like a lot of trouble to make a neck-through copy of an Alembic though.
It does have the embossing on both pickups as well as two screw holes per side. Also the XLR is 3-pin. Plus somebody removed the switch on the horn, so maybe the electronics were changed at that time? Btw what does that switch on the horn do? Is it a pickup selector? I can't seem to find a good explanation of the electronics on the web. I can take a pic of the inside of the control cavity if you think that would help.
thanks,
David
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A pic of the inside of the bass would definately help. That picture could tell what electronics are in the bass. By the way if it is a real Alembic, then the inside of the control cavity should be painted with a silver shielding paint. Also, it is hard to tell from the pictures, but it seems that there is no logo on the headstock. Or is it just badly tarnished? The pickups on the bass are definately later ones with 2 screw holes on each side. On those pickups there is a screw mounted on the inside of the pickup cavity for height adjustment, and another on the outside to hold it in place. Great design!
While you have the camera out, take some additional detail pictures too. Headstock repair?? The bridge on the bass is also bit different than the others I have seen.
The switch on the horn is supposed to be a pickup selector switch. It provides an off or standby position, and neck/both/bridge pickup settings.
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It is a very interesting looking bass. I especially like the pattern of the top wood. David you are right, the switch on the horn was the pickup selector. Michael, the plates on the front look unusual to me. It might also be helpful to see the wood card for 74-64. My guess, the series electronics and pickups were replaced at some point with signature electronics and new pickups. In addition to the XLR, it would also explain why the pickup selector switch was removed. David, if they are signature electronics, then looking at the picture, the top left knob is volume, below it is the pan. The top right is the neck pickup filter and below it the bridge pickup filter. The switches are the Q switches for each filter. For an excellent description of how signature electronics work, see Mica's post at http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/1067.html (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=2797).
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Okay here are some more pics. No shielding paint in the control cavity. (http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5529.gif)
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Wierd serial number. You can see the faint 6 on the left of the 0 and the faint 4 to the right of the 0.(http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5532.gif)
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Front of the bass(http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5535.gif)
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Headstock. You can see the three dowels at the base where there was a repair. No logo.(http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5538.gif)
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Thanks for the link davehouck. So the signature electronics dont have a pickup selector?
Also it is a 34 scale bass.
Im really wondering about the double stamped headstock serial number. Can't figure out why anyone would do that. Does Alembic ever restamp a serial number? Like after a major repair perhaps? If the headstock was repaired and the electronics changed then that is a pretty major change to the bass IMO.
Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it.
David
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David - This is an interesting mystery. With that type of electronics, a pan knob is used insted of a pickup selector. In looking at the control cavity, it seems that there are remnants of shielding paint along the edge. Am I looking at this wrong? Does it look silverish on the edge to you? As far as the inside, I think someone would have to go through a LOT of trouble to remove the rest of it. Or does it look painted over with something else? What about the back plate that covers the electronics? Are there any holes in it? Is it brass?
The smaller serial numbers on that bass look Alembicish. The rest don't. I have not heard of them restamping an instrument, but I guess it could have happened. I have seen some wacky and strange serial numbers. I had a bass from 1975 that I think was number 229. It looked like it was stamped 226, and then they turned the 6 around to make a 9 by stamping it again. It also had some ornate brass pickup rings similar to the bass you are showing us! I also own a 1973 Alembic that is stamped as a 1978. I have personally seen two basses with the same serial number, and so on. I guess back then there was some numbering confusion. I was also confused back then.
Does it look like it ever had a logo? You may see 3 small holes that would have held the logo on to the face of the headstock. Perhaps the logo went away when it was repaired. It may have been reveneered and all traces of the logo taken away.
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I didnt notice this before, but it does seem as if the control cavity was painted with a copper colored paint. Also there are 10 screw holes around the edge but the brass plate on the back only has 5 holes. It is a rather old looking plate.
I see just one thing on the headstock that looks like a filled in screw hole.
Im still undecided on the authenticity of this bass. Hopefully Mica or somebody from Alembic will offer an opinion.
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I know it is hard to tell, but I am thinking it started out as an Alembic bass, but has had a hard and cruel life.
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could be an employee project...maybe? truss rod cover seems odd.
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There are a lot of things about this bass that seem odd. Are there a lot of employee project Alembics out there?
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Well, this bass shouldn't be serial number 74-64 since that is a short scale bass. Maybe it is 74-164?
Michael
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The pickups and electronics are newer than the bass (part of the electronics are from 1985). It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like the swithcs are not our typical switches, and it doesn't look like Signature electronics to me since there is only one preamp in the bass.
Is the large pot a master volume or a pan? I'll guess the two pots on the left side of the photo are volume for each pickup (note the pickup leads are plugged in there).
The switches aren't for Q since these look like they aren't connected to the filter module (the one with the trimpot). Are these on/off for the pickups?
The wiring in general also looks a bit messier than I'm used to seeing on our instruments. I'm also not aware of any instruments we made with a 3-pin output.
The switch cover on the lower horn doesn't appear to have a hole under it. The nothes in the bridge are also unusual. The tailpiece is unlike any I've ever seen.
Many things about the bass say Alembic, but there are things that don't quite add up, most notably the lack of a logo or its evidence and the weird serial number. If the guitar is an early 70's model Alembic, the electronics were absolutely replaced.
Regarding the peghead repair, do those dowels on the front go all the way through to to back? Bone nut is not unheard of, but I'd call it rare as original equipment on an Alembic.
There's an unknown number of employee project instruments out there. If this was an employee project, it looks like it was started in 1974 and finished in 1985.
As I work on the great big database of Alembics, we may be able to track down and see if any records match what we see on this bass, but that query is many months away.
About the serial number. I can't map the (6)10(4)6-4 to our serial number format. Are there any numbers stamped on the other side of the point on the peghead?
It will be interesting to find out what the history behind this bass is. With Columbo (dela) on the case, and the rest of us Alembic hounds, if it's a solvable mystery, we'll figure it out.
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The large pot is master volume.
The switches are on/off for each pickup.
The switch cover hole is there and connects to the control cavity.
The dowels in the front go all the way through.
What would the nut material typically be? IMHO it seems to be a replacement nut.
There is a 4 on the other side of the headstock. There seems to be a very faint 7 in front of the 4 but I'm not sure.
I just got back from my first time playing this bass with a band. Everyone loved it. Very nice thick tone.
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As someone who used to work for Alembic once said : Tone is trump.
If you like the bass, plays and sounds great, then there you go.
A few other things though - I once owned an Alembic that also had a bone nut, that is why I did not comment on it. It could be correct for that bass. I thought that there was a time that Alembic used bone nuts only on fretless basses. I notice that there are no inlays on that bass. Could it have one time been fretless? Hmm. If the bass is in fact a 1974 then the serial number could be 164. But number 164 should have been made in 1975. I would have had a hum cancellor mounted between the two pickups. I would bet that the battery cavity is the same size as the cavity for a hum canceller. But if that bass had a hum canceller installed inside the body, it would have been mounted in a cavity under the tailpiece. Is there a cavity visible under the tailpiece from inside the bass? Also is there another brass plate on the rear of the bass near the control cavity. The pictures don't show the full rear. On the basses with the hum canceller on the face of the instrument, the batteries were mounted on the rear. Also, if the bass had a serial number of 1064 as the larger numbers show, that would put the bass as being a 1978 instrument and not a 1974.
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By the way I also have a 1974 Alembic that has a control cavity plate with 5 screws holding it in place. But there are 10 holes!
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Hi guys, new here in the forum, but I've played Alembics for a long time.
May I just take the opportunity to say, what is up with that tailpiece? - it looks like it was hand hammered or something (the horn switch cover looks sort of similar too).
It also reminds me of some of the rough gold nugget type of jewelry I've seen before, and actually, the more I look at it, the more I sort of like that textured effect. I've never seen brass develop pits like that, so I have to assume it was intentional.
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Welcome to the club scrub! HHmmm, that sounded kinda funny....
The tail piece looks as if it was peined to look like wrought iron. I also have to agree with dela. If it sounds good and feels good.......
Paul TGO
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Scrub - I think the hammered effect you are talking about on that tailpiece could be correct. I have some early Alembics from this era with the same hammered features. Hammered backplates, hammered battery plates, even that little brass plate that the selector switch mounts to - hammered. What strikes me as strange is the shape of the tailpiece. I have not seen another quite like it.
I agree, I think it is a nice textured effect. I would say that it is definately intentional on this bass too.
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Scrub - Check out this picture of the back of one of my basses.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5552.jpg)
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elzie: Thanks for the welcome! Glad to be here!
dela: Ya, that's definately some peen bashing there on that backplate. None of mine ever had anything like that, I've never seen it before.
I know whatcha mean about the shape of that tailpiece. I think it sorta looks like a pre-historic Flintstones version of the current tailpiece design.
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Close up of tailpiece
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5556.gif)
Switch plate also has hammer marks
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/5557.gif)
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There is not an extra plate on the rear of the bass. I looked in the cavity for the hum canceller but didnt see it.
I thought about the possibility of it being fretless at one point. From the looks of the fretwork I would not be surprised. The fret slots look a little funny. Almost like the slot extends deeper than the fret itself.
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Yup, definately peened.
You know, he says as he reaches for the trusty Essence sitting next to his chair, I really kind of like that peened tailpiece. I wonder...
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I wonder what is holding that switch plate in place?
If there is no extra battery plate on the rear, and no cavity for an internal humcanceller, I would think that it would make the bass older than a 74! This is getting weirder with every post. Before they started putting the dummy pickup under the tailpiece, they were just laid inside the control cavity and held in place with foam. But, that is just on the very earliest of Alembics, 72ish. Hmmm.
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I really like the look of the tailpiece too. That was one of the first things I noticed about the bass. I assume when Alembic first started they had nobody machining tailpieces and bridges. Were the first ones made by hand? Anybody got a pic of super early basses?
FWIW, I was told by the seller that this is one of the first Alembic basses. Supposedly this was confirmed by Alembic at some point.
I wonder if that serial number is original. If the headstock was repaired or replaced then it may not be.
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There is a few early ones in the Showcase section listed as series 1's. You will be able to see the similarities. I think that all the tailpieces were handmade back then, and they still may be.
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The brass parts are machine. But the nuts are hand slotted during the setup. Don't know about the super early stuff. Trying to figure that one out too. After looking at the headstock pic again, do the laminate look slanted to you. Look at the edges and then the sandwhich itself. Just me? This looks like it could be very early though. I've just been looking at the showcase Series stuff. The 73' stuff is too top notch.
http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/2435.html?1038574445 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8494)
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Anyone have any idea what the other two knobs do? I cant figure them out.
Tonight will be the first time taken to a gig. The true test of an instrument IMO.
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I know that I'm late to this thread, but any chance this bass could be 74-94, or 106? It is likely not 74-64. As dela217 has pointed out 64 is a short scale (listed on the Stolen Alembics page, btw). It's not 74-84. I used to own that one and this ain't it. The only other rounded numbers in the ballpark are 94 and 106. Just guessin'.
Peace,
James
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Just out of curiosity, supposing the headstock were from the aforementioned stolen 74-64, which maybe had been cannibalized. Another thought, There is a guy in London named Andy ??? who runs/ran Andy's Guitar Workshop (27 Denmark Street in Soho) and built basses which were practically Alembic clones. He did the setup work on John Paul Jones Alembic and Jimmy Page's guitar(s) in the '70's and copied the Alembics very convincingly. I thought they *were* Alembics until he told me otherwise (I didn't own one yet and therefore can't say how they were different, other than them having a balanced 3-pin xlr output...
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Hi guys,
I am the new owner of the bass. It is a 32 scale, Not a 34 as posted by slam. The serial looks to be 10647. I also found a piece of paper in the gig bag that came with the case with dates on it. it says;
23 JUN 68
Pickup 130478
Vol-'76
Tone-'78
It might be a chronological list of when work was done on the bass.
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Another thing, it looks like it used to have a cover plate between the pickups like the one on this bass.
There is no doubt that the pickups were changed, and when that was done, they probaly changed the covers.
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The date of that note predates the conception of Alembic. I'm afraid I would still classify it as a mystery bass. But mysteries beg to be solved, so I'm sure between all the wise Alembic minds at the Club we'll figure out exactly what this bass is someday.
But more importantly, how do you like it? Does it play well, sound good?
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Hi,
The first date might not mean much. BTW, after further investigation of the serial number, it looks to be 106 74. Does that sound like something?
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BTW, it plays great. It looks like it was stained at one time, as in one of the cavities, it looks like the neck is actually maple and walnut. I'm hoping the 106 74 serial number will shed some light on this bass. It also looks like the headstock overlay was replaced.
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I guess the only thing that matters really is if it plays and sounds great.
I could be wrong, but I think if the bass has a serial number of 106, that would actually make it a 1975 instrument and not a 1974.
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More and more, as I investigate this bass, I see so many similarities to an Alembic of this era. The control plate has 5 holes, whereas the cavity has 10 holes. Reminants of the original pickup cavities look to be the right size for pickups of that era. There are 2 gromets between the pickups that look like they were screw holes for a plate like the one that is on this bass http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/1145.html?1049497080 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8507)
The bridge looks to be the right era. The tailpiece might have been changed, as there are a few more screw holes under it.
As I stated in a previous post, it looks like a previous owner stained the bass with a dark stain, possibly walnut, so the wood color is wrong for the types of wood used.
I'm sure the brass plates were made after the newer pickups were installed.
Mica emailed me and told me that someone else pulled the #106 file. She is supposed to get back to me when she finds out more.
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More and more, as I investigate this bass, I see so many similarities to an Alembic of this era. The control plate has 5 holes, whereas the cavity has 10 holes. Reminants of the original pickup cavities look to be the right size for pickups of that era. There are 2 gromets between the pickups that look like they were screw holes for a plate like the one that is on this bass http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/1145.html?1049497080 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8507)
The bridge looks to be the right era. The tailpiece might have been changed, as there are a few more screw holes under it.
As I stated in a previous post, it looks like a previous owner stained the bass with a dark stain, possibly walnut, so the wood color is wrong for the types of wood used.
I'm sure the brass plates were made after the newer pickups were installed.
Mica emailed me and told me that someone else pulled the #106 file. She is supposed to get back to me when she finds out more.
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John - This seems to get more interesting all the time. The brass plate on the front of my bass in the link you included on the last post, is where the 2 9-volt batteries are. Alembic stopped putting the batteries on the front of the instruments in 1974 somewhere between serial number 50 and 60. Is there a cavity between the 2 pickups that look like 2 9-volt batteries would fit on the mystery bass?-----Michael
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Yea, there is a cavity there. It looks like it couls hold 2, but it now holds just 1 because of the new electronics. I'm wondering if the new circuit could be made to 18v or if it's just a 9 volt circuit. It looks to me like it's this circuit, only the previous owner also put in a master volume (big round silver pot).
http://www.alembic.com/prod/pickups.html (http://www.alembic.com/prod/pickups.html)
He also modified the switches to be on/off switches. Everything else on the bass seems to be true Alembic.
This bass has a very narrow neck. The fingerboard also looks to be a laminate of ebony/maple/ebony.
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Oh yea, another thing, it is a semi-hollow body.
Just wondering something, if it was an employee project, would it even have a serial number on it?
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I would have expected for it to be hollow. That is how the Series basses were made.
I would think that an employee project would not have serial numbers. I have one with NO numbers. I also heard it was a no-no for a project bass to have an Alembic logo on it. Mine has a BecVar logo on it, but I suspect it was made at Alembic. It seems to me that the bass you have has two sets of numbers. I think I would lean toward what the smaller set of numbers say. I think those would be more Alembic, if you know what I mean. The other set of numbers look like an afterthought. The smaller numbers are consistent with the size of the numbers on other Alembic instruments.
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I noticed on the serial number, the 74 is on one side of the point on the headstock, and the 106 is on the other side. You really can't see it too well in the pictures, but in person you can see it real well.
Another thing, it looks like there were 3 small screw holes near the top of the headstock face that were filled in.
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Are those the small numbers? If that is so, then I would trust those most. That is how it should be stamped. The year of creation on one side, and the number of the instrument on the other.
If you see 3 small holes that were filled in, that is a good sign. Is it two on the top end of the headstock and one toward the nut? They should be in the shape of a triangle if you connect the dots. The Alembic logo has 3 pins under it that held it to the headstock.
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Yea, those are the small numbers. Also, the holes are shaped like a triangle, 2 on top and 1 on bottom.
This is looking good.
I was wondering if we determine that this is a real Alembic, what my chances would be to get a headstock logo to put on there.
(Message edited by navybass on December 07, 2003)
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Once it can be verified, chances are 100%. The one catch is that logos have to be installed at the factory, so it's usually best to wait until you've got more work to do at the same time since shipping can be very $$$.
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Mica, How much would it cost to get complete Series I electronics installed on this bass?
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Mica, are you there? I would like to talk to you in private please.
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No I wasn't here. Shortly after posting to you I signed off for the day (I don't always get to hang out in the Club on the weekend). You're welcome to call our office 10-4 at 707-523-2611. My lunch hour is very random (I haven't gone yet today). Best time to catch me is morning.
Complete Series I electronic install is pricey, between $3500-4500 depending on specifics. I don't think I have any used stock right now, so I have to quote you new prices. The price does include a power supply and cable and the full calibration.
Give me a call if you'd like to discuss this further.
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Well, I called Mica yesterday because I was a little concerned that this bass might be the stolen 74 64. I was relieved to find out that it was not. It wasn't the right scale length nor did it have the right wood for the top to be that bass. 74 64 has a maple top.
I must say that Mica is a very nice person to talk to. She is extremely helpful. We had a very nice conversation. Her customer relations skills are first rate.
Thanks Mica.
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Anyone every hear any more about this bass? Was the date of birth every established? Thanks....